Considering a fluid head - A7Riv and Tamron 28-200

Or similar bodies, lens weights, etc.  Would the Manfrotto MV500AH or 502 Pro or similar heads be suitable?  (I'm still studying things like how the fluid heads handle counterbalancing or tilt or pan friction drag or locking etc., to get a feel for how that all comes together.  I wouldn't expect to be doing anything like adding cages, monitors, power blocks, etc., but maybe a mike? This would be personal fun not trying  "content creating."  Yikes.

I'm used to older pan/tilts and ball heads with stills and that motion control wasn't usually a big deal for a couple of stitched stills, etc.)

In a general sense, I'm figuring the $50 types are wallet emptiers. but I recognize the Manfrottos as a brand and general potential for quality, and then really not sure I should justify (?) something over $300 at this point as I start trying video.

Then just as information, what might be a reasonable non-extravagant "good enough" fluid head for something like the Sony 200-600?  (Just interested, not in that market yet, the ball head I have does ok.)

Looked up weights and left them out.  The A7Riv and 28-200 are a little under 3 lbs, the 200-600 and A7Riv is collared, internal zoom, about 7 lbs.

I'd be doing some panning and tilting, the lighter pair kind of general travel, trains and stuff.   My usual subject matter with the long lens has been along the Central Coast so marine mammals but planning other areas, too.  Looking to try video so expect some movement,  not just locked down.  I doubt I'd be trying erratic birds in flight or very fast subjects.  Maybe.  We've got an airshow coming up but not sure the situation, thinking more likely mostly stills and/or handheld, or if space suited to a tripod, etc.

I've been shooting stills with the ball heads, including using the larger lens in the ball head gimbal notch.  The ball heads and panning clamp I have are rather heavily damped which hasn't been a problem with stills but felt like it wasn't going to look good if trying video.

Spent a little time in a local store today looking at their display models.  They had a number of Sirui and Benro video heads out.  I didn't have any gear with me so got a feel for how some of the various heads and features feel unloaded.  Panning seems pretty straight forward but not sure  on the different tilt approaches, like counterbalancing and/or "tension" with a balanced  load?

Impressions from today are a gimbal might still be the better approach for use with my 200-600 and large tripod (for me) and that I need to look more closely at the  smaller video heads as  more than a few of the video heads seem larger than I'd like to deal with generally.

I'm trying to figure out my "Perfect is the enemy of good enough." scale.  Besides features, functionality, there is a price scale here.  The shop had a bias towards perfect.  I would prefer to spend less when possible.

I'm considering the MVH500ah out of several.  The MVH502s are nicely featured but awfully large.  I'd consider it with the 200-600 but seems too large for a walk about for me.

The current gear isn't well suited to video panning.  The big ball head with the 200-600 head is ok for stills but rather stiff.  I've used it in the gimbal notch and it could be better, so a Sidekick isn't likely an approach there, either.  But it's not my more immediate target for video use.

The big tripod I use with the 200-600 has an integral 75mm ball so I've got leveling there already.  A leveling base of some sort would  be needed for use with the smaller tripod/s but would still want to improve movement control.

I've looked a little at the Smallrig.  I have one of their l brackets so think well of their stuff, just not real familiar with this head.  Price is nice but is low enough to wonder about to see if it performs well.  I like that it's Arca Swiss to start.

I have the Smallrig. It is ok for stills and some video with smaller lenses, but the 200-600 would overwhelm it. It is not a true fluid head, which is also true for the other heads being discussed here. True fluid heads that can smoothly pan and tilt with heavy lenses and cameras are very expensive, and require heavy tripods.

I would use the Smallrig with an A6600 or A1 or A7C and up to the Sony 70-350 APS-C lens, but would not go beyond that. The beautiful telephoto footage in recent BBC nature films is shot with heavy tripods and heads and is very stable, even when panning and tilting. Don’t expect the Smallrig to perform the same, but it is inexpensive and is worth experimenting with for lighter lenses. I find it useful for keeping the scene level as I pan and tilt to follow an object, but the best video will be when I lock the pan/tilt when the object stops drastic movements around. Certainly far better than handholding when shooting video.

As my search goes on, as is typical, along with adding recommended items, there are also a number of counter reports which suggest that one user's favorite is perhaps also a different user's worst possible choice, etc.

I browsed a second Samy's today for a while.  This one had several Manfrotto products out on the floor where the first didn't.  At one, the guy I talked with favored Benro, at the other store, the guy I spoke with favored Sirui (not necessarily ruling out others).

I'm not sure I fully grasp the counter-balance thing.

Aside from the Smallrig and other small ones, which might be a bit too small for the A7Riv and 28-200 , I don't think I've ruled anything out completely. The Manfrotto MVH500AH (or A?) and a couple of both Sirui and Benro interest me.  Haven't worked through some of the others that have been recommended

The Manfrotto MVH502AH is interesting but only for use with the 200-600.  It's quite large, so like the 200-600, would be used intentionally, not just casual or walk around, etc.  It also seems to generate broadly different responses.

Craig Gillette wrote:

As my search goes on, as is typical, along with adding recommended items, there are also a number of counter reports which suggest that one user's favorite is perhaps also a different user's worst possible choice, etc.

I browsed a second Samy's today for a while. This one had several Manfrotto products out on the floor where the first didn't. At one, the guy I talked with favored Benro, at the other store, the guy I spoke with favored Sirui (not necessarily ruling out others).

I'm not sure I fully grasp the counter-balance thing.

Aside from the Smallrig and other small ones, which might be a bit too small for the A7Riv and 28-200 , I don't think I've ruled anything out completely. The Manfrotto MVH500AH (or A?) and a couple of both Sirui and Benro interest me. Haven't worked through some of the others that have been recommended

The Manfrotto MVH502AH is interesting but only for use with the 200-600. It's quite large, so like the 200-600, would be used intentionally, not just casual or walk around, etc. It also seems to generate broadly different responses.

Hi, Craig,

When you discuss tripods, tripod heads, and especially fluid video heads, you will get every opinion in the book, some of which might apply to your situation and some which will not. If you want to shoot professional looking stable 4K nature videos with a FF body and a big lens, and be able to pan and tilt smoothly, all while being able to take your hands off the controls and have the camera remain balanced in position, you will need to spend a lot of money on a fluid head and a beefy tripod, especially if it is windy. Also, these items will not be lightweight or compact or easily portable for travel. Pro level fluid head and tripod combinations are commonly in the several thousand dollar range and go up from there. Unless you are shooting professionally and have an assistant, that just isn't practical, even if you have the $$ to spend. So most of us have to make compromises.

If you read tripod and tripod recommendations on the Accessories forum, you will see that a common comment is that you will buy many tripods that won't fit your needs, until you finally buy expensive Brand X that will be perfect. I don't necessarily agree with that. There is no one ideal tripod/head that will fit all of your needs, unless your needs are very narrow. I have (and have owned previously) many tripods, from tabletop tripods (but still sturdy), through compact carbon fiber travel tripods, up to larger and taller and heavier tripods that I would not travel with. I shoot both photos and video. Depending on what camera and lens I am using, and what I am shooting, I choose between them. I have owned several Manfrotto tripods and many Manfrotto heads over the years, and still have a carbon fiber Manfrotto tripod. Ultimately, I decided to use non Manfrotto heads, as Manfrotto had their own mounting plates and clamps, which were incompatible with the (somewhat) standardized Arca plates. Now I only use Arca plates and clamps, as there are a huge variety of sizes of Arca plates and Arca clamps, appropriate for anything from an RX100 series point and shoot up to a huge telephoto with tripod foot.

I have numerous Benro and Sirui carbon fiber tripods. One of my favorite tripod/head combinations is this Benro, unfortunately now discontinued:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1157845-REG/benro_hfta18cs2h_hybrid_9x_carbon_fiber.html

It is a reasonable size, weight and height, reasonably stable, with a reasonable pan-tilt head.

I was also able to purchase a separate Benro S2H head (also now discontinued) to mount on an old set of Manfrotto CF legs.

I did an early spring trip to northern Finland to shoot the aurora, and took three tripods along. I had a FF body, an APS-C body, and a 1" sensor Panasonic point and shoot with an f/1.4 lens. I shoot photos, time-lapse and real time video. The tripods were all modest in size, and I did not extend them all the way or extend the center column, to keep them more stable. It was a little awkward to set up shots, but it was all wide angle, so I would set up a shot and then do a long timelapse or video. I made do with what I was willing to carry along on an overseas trip.

Some will say that you should only buy a RRS or a Gitzo, etc., tripod, and not waste your money on less expensive brands. I disagree. Benro and Sirui make a wide range of decent CF tripods, and so long as you choose a model appropriate to your needs, they will work well. You can create stability on more modest tripods by hanging weight from a center column hook, and not extending the center column, if it has one. Of course if you are standing and trying to follow birds through a viewfinder, you are going to need a taller (and heavier) tripod, but you can consider bringing and sitting on a stool and using a shorter more stable tripod.

Some other shooters have praised Leofoto tripods. I own a Leofoto tabletop tripod with Arca ball head that is sturdy and well built. I think that Sony ambassador Mark Galer has a review of it.

In the early 1990s I temporarily moved away from photography and started getting serious about video. I bought a Canon L1 Hi8 camcorder, which I believe was the first prosumer interchangeable lens camcorder. It was big and bulky, and I had a huge Manfrotto tripod and head that I used with it. I remember carrying all of that around on the trails up out of Zion canyon in Zion NP to shoot video from the canyon rim. There is no way I would carry such gear these days. I am now all about using the smallest, lightest equipment that will get the job done. I am a hobbyist, and I am thrilled by the convergence of cameras that are excellent for both stills and video.

By the way, there are pan/tilt heads that are primarily for photography, that really don't work well for video.

Good luck in your search. I have been satisfied with Benro and Sirui, and if you have any questions about them, I might be able to provide some input about specific models.

apekkpul wrote:

Most light/cheap heads have jerky panning.

Agreed. In addition, even if the head has smooth panning, unless the tripod is rigid enough, there can be some twist in the tripod when panning, which can mess up the beginning and end of a pan. That is, you end the pan, and the tripod springs back slightly.

Yeah, with a range of tripods and heads, I came looking in Video instead of Accessories as the still heads I have don't have the movement control/smoothness I'd want.   They are all too heavily damped in pan.  Right now looking to a "video" head for something like an A7Riv and the Tamron 28-200.  (Tripod wise I'm probably ok but that can be tested readily enough.  I like that the stills tripods tend to collapse down smaller but then take somewhat longer to deploy than some video tripods. Bowl devices speed leveling right up.)

One thing I'm seeing, and that's the same in still gear reviews, is a wide range of familiarity with the gear and it's use.  Like some are flummoxed by Arca Swiss clamps possibly clamping across the head, like for most body plates and L brackets, or front to back for lens plates or balance adjusting.

I've kind of set an expected lowest price that will do in the $150 range, like but not only the Komodo K5 or Manfrotto MVH500AH.  Then things go up from there, of course, whether capacity or feature/functionality adds, etc.

At that point with some of the reviewers, there's still a bit of acknowledgement that pan and tilt isn't fully taken care of.  Others are happy, and some just couldn't use that level of performance, not being to the levels they need or want.

So I'm looking in the $150 to $250 or so range, getting the feel that's closer to "good enough" than "perfect" on the "Perfect is the enemy of good enough." scale, perfect almost certainly being way out of my budget.

Alan_W1 wrote:

Craig Gillette wrote:

As my search goes on, as is typical, along with adding recommended items, there are also a number of counter reports which suggest that one user's favorite is perhaps also a different user's worst possible choice, etc.

I browsed a second Samy's today for a while. This one had several Manfrotto products out on the floor where the first didn't. At one, the guy I talked with favored Benro, at the other store, the guy I spoke with favored Sirui (not necessarily ruling out others).

Maybe you could narrow your search by visualising how you would operate the head, such as whether a tilt-lock being on the left side is likely to suit your needs better or worse than being on the right side {for example}, or whether you think you can work around the compromises of the more basic heads.

I suspect having some drag adjustment to the pan action may be more important than a tilt drag adjustment for some users. I personally am happy enough with the built-in drag of my tilt option....but would have found a proper adjustment to the pan action to be preferable.

That said, any panning {or tilting} i do with birds, is usually limited to a pretty narrow degree of pan angle, if the subject is moving about {often just a few inches or a couple of feet in either direction} so any smooth panning/tilting i need is not as extreme in length of movement, as someone who may need to pan wide vistas or panoramas etc....therefore extra pan/tilt adjustments for me maybe less essential than for others.

If i find my panning is not perfectly smooth throughout a clip, it can often be smoothed out enough, or entirely, with the aid of a touch of slow motion in post, from my usual 60fps.....or filming with the aid of ibis {although my panasonics ibis can be a bit jumpy at the beginning and end of the travel, if any change of pan direction is too quick}.

I'm not sure I fully grasp the counter-balance thing.

Fixed vs Adjustable counter balance fluid heads: Digital Video Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

Good.  This handy.  I've been going over it.  Might take several passes to get a fair grasp, though.

Aside from the Smallrig and other small ones, which might be a bit too small for the A7Riv and 28-200 , I don't think I've ruled anything out completely. The Manfrotto MVH500AH (or A?) and a couple of both Sirui and Benro interest me. Haven't worked through some of the others that have been recommended

The Manfrotto MVH502AH is interesting but only for use with the 200-600. It's quite large, so like the 200-600, would be used intentionally, not just casual or walk around, etc. It also seems to generate broadly different responses.

I've read about this one, haven't seen it in the wild, so to speak.  I'd have to set up with anRC2/Arca Swiss adapter.  Plenty out there.  Might want two, one primarily for use with L brackets and maybe one oriented for a long lens foot, too.   From the various reviews, mixed comments or impressions on the pan and/or tilt performance - which is pretty common.  Not really a surprise that sub $200 heads don't perform up there with professional high end models that cost many hundred if not thousands of dollars.

I don't recall having come across anything that got universally poor comments.  I think the Manfrotto MVH502AH gets the most intensely divided sets of comments.  It seems the placement of the pan and tilt controls don't bother a fair number of users and are completely unacceptable to many as well.  (For me, not having experience, I don't know how awful the placement is/isn't.  Otherwise aside from it's size and weight, it gets a lot of very positive commentary.)