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Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
4

This is, of course, a subjective view, and certainly not a suggestion that anyone should suddenly dislike their own X-E 🙂.

The point behind it is really to reflect on some details of camera design (both hardware and firmware) which get in the way of fully manual shooting.

It may be long-winded 😉

Wind the clock back a couple of years and I began a journey of rekindling my interest in photography after a couple of years of lazily using an iPhone. I bought and sold dozens of old/used cameras, beginning with premium compacts, until I hit the Fujifilm XF1, which became a pivotal camera that immediately launched me into Fujifilm.

At this point, of course, I was still using cameras in the way of the compact, including all my old beloved Ricohs and Pentax DSLR: mostly in aperture priority, sometimes program mode, with exposure compensation.

So I stuck with that once I bought into the X system, first with the X-T20 and then with seemingly just about every other model from the E, T, Pro and 100 ranges over the next year or so. I added auto ISO into my mix, something which I’d never used before because either (a) with small sensors, the significant change in noise from a small change in ISO transforms the feel of the image, or (b) the auto ISO implementations I’d used just didn’t play nicely.

Over that time a number of changes happened in the way I shoot, but it’s the X100V that completed one of the transitions: now my most-used way of shooting is fully manual (back to my Ricoh KR-5/10 days!) with access to aperture, shutter speed and ISO.

Fine so far.

But along that journey, the standout series for me has been the X-E, of which I’ve owned the first three models. All are ergonomically excellent for me, and are compact, with no protruding bits. Just about perfect…

…until you become a habitually fully-manual user.

There are two issues, which are alluded to by this image:

Firstly, that 1/180 position on the shutter speed dial. Every other click is a full stop, but the two clicks either side of this position are half a stop. This makes it much harder with the X-Es to adjust exposure by feel alone. (I perhaps exaggerate a little, because of course exposure is reflected in the EVF, but it’s an annoyance nonetheless, particularly if you want to mainatain exposure but adjust aperture by a stop or two.)

The second issue is the absence of an ISO dial. This relates to something which for me is much more significant and, for some, a bit of a contentious topic in Fujifilm’s firmware.

Without the ISO dial, ISO becomes part of the custom settings.

And for me, that’s a problem.

Everything else in the custom settings (other than DR mode, but I never use that) is related to processing the raw image data, not to capturing the image in the first place.

So for me, custom settings are about the JPEG that is produced. The raw file should be the same no matter which custom setting I used. But without an ISO dial, every time I change custom settings, I get the ISO that was saved with those settings. Which means that for my now-most-used way of shooting, every time I change custom settings, I have to then go into the menu, change the ISO to what I want, and then I’m good to go.

I regularly forget to do this and get thrown by the fact that I’ve ended up with auto ISO, meaning that I’m no longer fully manual. (Yes, I could change them all to one fixed ISO—but chosen for which conditions? It doesn’t really solve the problem.)

The reality is that there are two types of settings that users want to customise and save: those which affect the actual taking of the shot (ISO, focus mode/area/etc, DR mode, crop/digital converter modes, and so on) and those which affect the processing of the image (tone curve, film simulation, NR, etc). Pre-exposure and post-exposure.

The bothersome fact is that Fuji (and, I suspect, every other camera manufacturer—so it seems from my experience) can’t split these two properly. In the latest traditional-control models (X-E4, X-T30 II) they’ve been further mixing them, much to some people’s displeasure. It’s like going back to all those earlier compact cameras which generally had a couple of custom modes: they were always based on a PASM choice as well as AF settings and image style, which was frustrating (in most cases if you wanted to change only the PASM setting, it was a particularly difficult process). For years I had wanted “virtual films” to drop in, leaving shooting settings controlled as normal, but until I found the X system I’d never seen anyone do it.

There is a place for both, especially for those who prefer the PASM model and/or make use of more advanced AF features in different scenarios. Why not two mode dials, or at least one on a dial and one in a menu? You could even choose whether you prefer the custom post-exposure settings on the dial (as I do, and as is more aligned with traditional controls) or the custom pre-exposure settings (which seems more in line with the X-H model and PASM ways of working).

In any case, this has honed my choice of cameras neatly to just four models: the X-Pro2 and 3, and the X100F and V. They’re the only ones where I can use custom settings for image styles without the camera getting in the way of manual shooting. And that’s fine, not least because I have two of those.

But along the way, my beloved X-E3 has fallen from favour and may be sold. I shall miss it, I’m sure. And the only thing that really undid it was that mingling of pre-exposure and post-exposure settings.

I wonder if they’ll ever be properly separated.

 Jeff Biscuits's gear list:Jeff Biscuits's gear list
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Michael Floyd Senior Member • Posts: 1,216
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

Makes perfect sense to me.

Well thought through and presented.

We are lucky to have at least a few cameras that provide for this need.

Although I would refine the list of raw relevant settings to be smaller than you have. Probably as I simply don't use the great bulk of camera settings beyond what is needed to ensue the best raw capture I can manage.

sir_c Contributing Member • Posts: 740
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

The dials are always a compromise.

With the older analog cameras like Leica R3 and R5, there was a separate 'X' speed next to the bulb setting, instead of interspersing it with the regular shutter speeds.  it is quite intuitive to have the special ones out of the way.

Still you need to be careful when you want 'X' but then accidentally select bulb.

More ideal would be that the X sync speed would match an existing shutter speed on the dial. But I can understand Fuji here, 1/180 is preferable over 1/125 as a next whole stop boundary.

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OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

sir_c wrote:

More ideal would be that the X sync speed would match an existing shutter speed on the dial.

Indeed, and numerous Fuji models with different shutters have a 1/240 sync speed. (I never use flash so any hardware features that exist purely for flash just get in the way for me.)

 Jeff Biscuits's gear list:Jeff Biscuits's gear list
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7rvar Regular Member • Posts: 377
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
2

I read this a few times and I really don't get it. My reply probably will sound critical but it's just my reaction, by all means use your cameras in the way that you like most.

Essentially you had the X-E1/2/3 (and many other cameras) but now that you've tried a camera with an ISO dial that is what you prefer?

Jeff Biscuits wrote:

…until you become a habitually fully-manual user.

Firstly, that 1/180 position on the shutter speed dial. Every other click is a full stop, but the two clicks either side of this position are half a stop. This makes it much harder with the X-Es to adjust exposure by feel alone. (I perhaps exaggerate a little, because of course exposure is reflected in the EVF, but it’s an annoyance nonetheless, particularly if you want to mainatain exposure but adjust aperture by a stop or two.)

If you're manually choosing a shutter speed then is it not for a purpose? To stop fast motion, to let in more light, to create blur?

Just like you're choosing an aperture to control depth of field and quantity of light.

What do you gain by manually setting ISO to anything other than the lowest possible value that properly exposes with your specified shutter and aperture settings.

In my opinion auto ISO is the preffered mode. Why would you go from say 1/125 to 1/250 to offset going from f/2.8 to f/2 when instead you could just keep the shutter speed you wanted and allow the ISO to maintain the exposure. Not to mention the fact that you can fine tune it in third stops by simply adjusting the exposure comp. dial that is placed as prominently as possible at the corner of your camera.

The second issue is the absence of an ISO dial. This relates to something which for me is much more significant and, for some, a bit of a contentious topic in Fujifilm’s firmware.

Without the ISO dial, ISO becomes part of the custom settings.

And for me, that’s a problem.

Everything else in the custom settings (other than DR mode, but I never use that) is related to processing the raw image data, not to capturing the image in the first place.

To me this sounds like you're just deep in C1-C7 as jpeg recipes and maybe that's why I don't relate. I tried that but I don't enjoy it.

And doesn't it make a fair amount of sense to specify ISO within that? It's not like you could change the ISO of your film mid roll. I find the white balance shifts that get used to get the desired look much more problematic than defining an ISO value.

So for me, custom settings are about the JPEG that is produced. The raw file should be the same no matter which custom setting I used. But without an ISO dial, every time I change custom settings, I get the ISO that was saved with those settings. Which means that for my now-most-used way of shooting, every time I change custom settings, I have to then go into the menu, change the ISO to what I want, and then I’m good to go.

With ISO invariance you could theoretically shoot everything at base ISO and just adjust the exposure after the fact if you're shooting raw.

I regularly forget to do this and get thrown by the fact that I’ve ended up with auto ISO, meaning that I’m no longer fully manual. (Yes, I could change them all to one fixed ISO—but chosen for which conditions? It doesn’t really solve the problem.)

I mean you're literally already in the Q menu to change your custom setting so how is it confusing to set your desired ISO at the same time you alter your custom setting.

if you have already determined what aperture and shutter speed you want shouldn't auto ISO just give you what you wanted anyway? Not to mention the fact that you can tune it via exposure compensation in this scenario.

The reality is that there are two types of settings that users want to customise and save: those which affect the actual taking of the shot (ISO, focus mode/area/etc, DR mode, crop/digital converter modes, and so on) and those which affect the processing of the image (tone curve, film simulation, NR, etc). Pre-exposure and post-exposure.

On my X-E4 I've got the Q menu set to all the things I routinely change and few of them relate to what you term as post exposure: C1-C7 (which I never use), ISO, White Balance, Mechanical/Electronic shutter, MF/AF-S/AF-C, AF mode, MF assist type, Self Timer, Photometry, LCD Brightness, Film Simulation, Image Quality (raw/jpeg), DR (which I always keep at 100).

The bothersome fact is that Fuji (and, I suspect, every other camera manufacturer—so it seems from my experience) can’t split these two properly. In the latest traditional-control models (X-E4, X-T30 II) they’ve been further mixing them, much to some people’s displeasure. It’s like going back to all those earlier compact cameras which generally had a couple of custom modes: they were always based on a PASM choice as well as AF settings and image style, which was frustrating (in most cases if you wanted to change only the PASM setting, it was a particularly difficult process). For years I had wanted “virtual films” to drop in, leaving shooting settings controlled as normal, but until I found the X system I’d never seen anyone do it.

Isn't this just like applying presets to your RAW files?

There is a place for both, especially for those who prefer the PASM model and/or make use of more advanced AF features in different scenarios. Why not two mode dials, or at least one on a dial and one in a menu? You could even choose whether you prefer the custom post-exposure settings on the dial (as I do, and as is more aligned with traditional controls) or the custom pre-exposure settings (which seems more in line with the X-H model and PASM ways of working).

In any case, this has honed my choice of cameras neatly to just four models: the X-Pro2 and 3, and the X100F and V. They’re the only ones where I can use custom settings for image styles without the camera getting in the way of manual shooting. And that’s fine, not least because I have two of those.

But along the way, my beloved X-E3 has fallen from favour and may be sold. I shall miss it, I’m sure. And the only thing that really undid it was that mingling of pre-exposure and post-exposure settings.

No reason to miss the X-E if you've replaced it with an X-Pro. You spent more money but got a better camera.

I wonder if they’ll ever be properly separated.

 7rvar's gear list:7rvar's gear list
Fujifilm X30 Canon EOS 5D Sony a7S Fujifilm X-H1 Fujifilm X-E4
OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

7rvar wrote:

I read this a few times and I really don't get it. My reply probably will sound critical but it's just my reaction, by all means use your cameras in the way that you like most.

No, these are all perfectly sound questions 🙂

In my opinion auto ISO is the preffered mode. Why would you go from say 1/125 to 1/250 to offset going from f/2.8 to f/2 when instead you could just keep the shutter speed you wanted and allow the ISO to maintain the exposure. Not to mention the fact that you can fine tune it in third stops by simply adjusting the exposure comp. dial that is placed as prominently as possible at the corner of your camera.

Maybe this is largely down to a style of shooting that I’ve evolved into, but it’s mainly that there are numerous situations where keeping a constant exposure is more useful than reacting to what’s in the frame. For example, I mostly shoot B&W and often want to blow the highlights to leave detail in certain darker areas, and I’ve found that any form of AE means I’m constantly fighting the closure comp dial. These days I’m less into the “expose to the right and spend time post-processing” way of working than I may once have been; these days I want a certain style out of camera and full manual just works better for me in that respect.

To me this sounds like you're just deep in C1-C7 as jpeg recipes and maybe that's why I don't relate. I tried that but I don't enjoy it.

Absolutely correct: to me, they’re the image styles I’ve always wanted, and I prefer my shooting controls to be dedicated rings and dials.

And doesn't it make a fair amount of sense to specify ISO within that? It's not like you could change the ISO of your film mid roll. I find the white balance shifts that get used to get the desired look much more problematic than defining an ISO value.

Yeah, but let’s face it, anyone who’s shot film has found themselves shoot half a roll in daylight and then want to take shots in the evening, so flexibility of ISO is one of the absolute joys of digital over film. In the same way, being in broad daylight, you might want to switch from colour to B&W but you still want a low ISO. To me, the fact that ISO (affecting the exposure) was once coupled with the colour response (affecting the final print) was purely an unfortunate trait of the medium. The fact that digital separates them is a good thing.

With ISO invariance you could theoretically shoot everything at base ISO and just adjust the exposure after the fact if you're shooting raw.

Also true, but that’s a real ball ache way of working, trying to judge the level of under exposure. I love the Wysiwig nature of EVFs.

I mean you're literally already in the Q menu to change your custom setting so how is it confusing to set your desired ISO at the same time you alter your custom setting.

I have the custom settings on a function button. Press the button, move the joystick, then shoot. The Q menu is too laborious: open it, spot which item currently has focus, shuffle up and left by some number of clicks that wasn’t predictable prior to opening the menu, then move to the rear dial and rotate that. I’m waaaay to lazy for that when there’s an easy option 🙂 let alone then having to repat all but the first step to faff about with ISO.

if you have already determined what aperture and shutter speed you want shouldn't auto ISO just give you what you wanted anyway? Not to mention the fact that you can tune it via exposure compensation in this scenario.

It’s always possible, but starting with auto and reacting via compensation is often way less efficient, and perhaps more importantly less consistent, than going full manual.

Isn't this just like applying presets to your RAW files?

Yup, except (a) that’s more time wasted doing something tedious and (b) for me one of the absolute joys about Fuji (the other being the ergonomics and traditional controls) is that the in-camera processing can make a far better job of colour than I can. Honestly, for many years I’ve primarily shot raw and processed to B&W because the cameras I used produced unpleasant JPEGs and I couldn’t make a better fist of the colours, but with Fuji I can set up a profile, shoot, and I’m happy with the results. I’m very comfortable processing B&W, but I simply can’t create colour profiles in Lightroom as good as those in the camera.

No reason to miss the X-E if you've replaced it with an X-Pro. You spent more money but got a better camera.

Well, yes, absolutely true—but the X-Es are delightfully light and compact, and we had some great times together 🙂

 Jeff Biscuits's gear list:Jeff Biscuits's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital II Ricoh GR Digital IV Fujifilm X20 Fujifilm XF10 Ricoh GR IIIx +14 more
AyeYo Regular Member • Posts: 104
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
2

IMO, there's some simple solutions to this issue and what they are depend on your workflow.

If you're a JPEG or mostly JPEG shooter:

I quickly realized you basically MUST shoot auto shutter speed with auto ISO (i.e. aperture priority) to allow proper use of the EV dial to control exposure. Shoot in this mode and all you have to do is make sure you're in the ballpark correct auto ISO mode for your shoot conditions.

If you're a RAW shooter:

Set it to base ISO and don't worry about. If it's dark and you need the shutter speed, set it higher. Be free.

Either way, easily solved. None of my other cameras have ISO dials and it's never bothered me for RAW shooting because ISO is basically irrelevant for RAW shooting.

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Fujifilm X-E2S Fujifilm X-T2 Panasonic G85 Sony a7 III Sony a7 IV
FTOG Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

If you're using lenses with aperture rings and the physical Exp Comp dial, have you tried enabling your X-E3 to control ISO on the front command dial?

You might not get a physical dial which you can reference and adjust while the camera is off (reserved for the higher priced models), but at least it's a physical control dial?

 FTOG's gear list:FTOG's gear list
Fujifilm X-E3 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 23mm F2 R WR Fujifilm 50mm F2 R WR Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 R WR +2 more
OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

FTOG wrote:

If you're using lenses with aperture rings and the physical Exp Comp dial, have you tried enabling your X-E3 to control ISO on the front command dial?

I hate those dials 😀

Reason: they always get moved accidentally, especially the front one. Taking a camera in and out of a bag, carrying it… it ends up a lottery. I always deactivate them both.

The thing that gets me is that they’re both clickable, so it would work really well if you could click to activate it, change a setting, and click again to make the dial unresponsive. I’d actually like that for a bunch of things, such as rolling through C1-C7, or for the digital teleconverter on the X100V. It baffles me that Fuji only let you use them for aperture, shutter speed or ISO, especially given that they generally go out of their way to provide those as dedicated controls (yeah, I know not all lenses/bodies have all those controls, and yeah, I know some people do want to fine tune shutter speed—though personally I can’t get my head round having to use two controls to adjust it). There are so many other things they could usefully do other than replicate the function of dedicated controls.

Besides, it doesn’t solve the issue of having to faff about with it every time new a custom settings mode is selected 😉

 Jeff Biscuits's gear list:Jeff Biscuits's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital II Ricoh GR Digital IV Fujifilm X20 Fujifilm XF10 Ricoh GR IIIx +14 more
OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

AyeYo wrote:

IMO, there's some simple solutions to this issue and what they are depend on your workflow.

If you're a JPEG or mostly JPEG shooter:

I quickly realized you basically MUST shoot auto shutter speed with auto ISO (i.e. aperture priority) to allow proper use of the EV dial to control exposure. Shoot in this mode and all you have to do is make sure you're in the ballpark correct auto ISO mode for your shoot conditions.

Yeah, I don’t shoot manual aperture and shutter with auto ISO. When I do want AE, it’s normally manual aperture, auto shutter, and either fixed or auto ISO.

But often I find AE makes it more work to get consistent exposure between shots. In any case, automating more parameters isn’t a solution for supporting manual shooting 🙂

If you're a RAW shooter:

Set it to base ISO and don't worry about. If it's dark and you need the shutter speed, set it higher. Be free.

Well, yeah, that’s what I do: choose an appropriate ISO for the conditions. Then I select a custom settings mode and presto, I’ve got a different ISO 🙂

 Jeff Biscuits's gear list:Jeff Biscuits's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital II Ricoh GR Digital IV Fujifilm X20 Fujifilm XF10 Ricoh GR IIIx +14 more
FTOG Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

Jeff Biscuits wrote:

FTOG wrote:

If you're using lenses with aperture rings and the physical Exp Comp dial, have you tried enabling your X-E3 to control ISO on the front command dial?

I hate those dials 😀

Reason: they always get moved accidentally, especially the front one. Taking a camera in and out of a bag, carrying it… it ends up a lottery. I always deactivate them both.

When the camera is off in the bag, the dial has no effect.

Can't say this happens to me to any meaningful degree, whether it was with my X-E2 nor my two X-E3s. But obviously your mileage does vary, and I don't mean to question your experience.

The thing that gets me is that they’re both clickable, so it would work really well if you could click to activate it, change a setting, and click again to make the dial unresponsive.

You can sort of do this. If memory serves me right, the click will cycle through aperture and ISO control, even when the aperture is set on the lens (and won't be adjusted).

Click to "adjust" aperture -> pseudo locked
Click to adjust ISO -> unlock for ISO adjustment
Click to "adjust" aperture -> re-engage "lock"

It baffles me that Fuji only let you use them for aperture, shutter speed or ISO, especially given that they generally go out of their way to provide those as dedicated controls

When the exposure compensation dial is on C, you can also adjust exposure compensation with them. (Yes, I know this is not what you ask.)

(yeah, I know not all lenses/bodies have all those controls, and yeah, I know some people do want to fine tune shutter speed—though personally I can’t get my head round having to use two controls to adjust it). There are so many other things they could usefully do other than replicate the function of dedicated controls.

A bit of a contradiction to your issue of these dials accidentally being adjusted: Any settings that aren't these linear adjustments will change a whole lot more by cycling through a few steps. Imagine the confusion if these cycled through custom settings, changing dozens of settings rather than just one.

Besides, it doesn’t solve the issue of having to faff about with it every time new a custom settings mode is selected 😉

Ultimately, I believe Fuji wants to service people with ask overlapping with yours. But the camera they want to sell you for it are X-T and X-Pro lines.

I love the small X-E bodies. There are some things I wish these bodies didn't do, and some things I wish they did. I'd love it if there was an X-E Pro/EVF-only X-Pro, with the X-T viewfinder (I don't care for the hybrid VF), WR sealing and that wasn't a third heavier like the X-Pro bodies. But ultimately we will never get our dream camera, so all we can do is the one closest to it.

 FTOG's gear list:FTOG's gear list
Fujifilm X-E3 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 23mm F2 R WR Fujifilm 50mm F2 R WR Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 R WR +2 more
FTOG Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

Jeff Biscuits wrote:

AyeYo wrote:

If you're a RAW shooter:

Set it to base ISO and don't worry about. If it's dark and you need the shutter speed, set it higher. Be free.

Well, yeah, that’s what I do: choose an appropriate ISO for the conditions. Then I select a custom settings mode and presto, I’ve got a different ISO 🙂

A killer feature would be a custom setting section where you choose which settings to include in the memory bank of custom settings - and importantly which ones to exclude.

 FTOG's gear list:FTOG's gear list
Fujifilm X-E3 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 23mm F2 R WR Fujifilm 50mm F2 R WR Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 R WR +2 more
OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

FTOG wrote:

When the camera is off in the bag, the dial has no effect.

Yeah, a rubbish example and I wasn’t thinking properly 😀 But in any case, I do find they get accidentally moved quite frequently. When I got the X-Pro2 it took me a good while of wondering why my shutter speed was always going up the wazoo until I finally realised I hadn’t disabled the dial.

You can sort of do this. If memory serves me right, the click will cycle through aperture and ISO control, even when the aperture is set on the lens (and won't be adjusted).

Click to "adjust" aperture -> pseudo locked
Click to adjust ISO -> unlock for ISO adjustment
Click to "adjust" aperture -> re-engage "lock"

Yeah—but again, adjusting something that already has a dedicated control so (for me at least) a bit pointless.

When the exposure compensation dial is on C, you can also adjust exposure compensation with them. (Yes, I know this is not what you ask.)

Aye. Not that exposure compensation is a thing in full manual, though. (I know you know that too 🙂)

A bit of a contradiction to your issue of these dials accidentally being adjusted: Any settings that aren't these linear adjustments will change a whole lot more by cycling through a few steps. Imagine the confusion if these cycled through custom settings, changing dozens of settings rather than just one.

Oh, agreed, it I meant in the context of the “click to enable/disable the dial” thing. I find they’re accidentally turned all the time, but I’m not aware of them getting accidentally clicked.

These things do at least fall into the category of parameters that you won’t adjust while shooting; I’ve always thought that the front dial is an odd place for shooting parameters as it means either taking your finger off the shutter button (heresy) or using a different finger (awkward—at least, I I’ve so far failed to train myself to do that).

Ultimately, I believe Fuji wants to service people with ask overlapping with yours. But the camera they want to sell you for it are X-T and X-Pro lines.

Oh, of course, no doubt about that. I know I’m an outlier 🙂 and all cameras involve some compromise.

I just think there’s a fundamental and indisputable divide between pre-exposure and post-exposure settings, though, and a fully-manual workflow shines a bit more light on that divide.

I love the small X-E bodies. There are some things I wish these bodies didn't do, and some things I wish they did. I'd love it if there was an X-E Pro/EVF-only X-Pro, with the X-T viewfinder (I don't care for the hybrid VF), WR sealing and that wasn't a third heavier like the X-Pro bodies. But ultimately we will never get our dream camera, so all we can do is the one closest to it.

That’s the camera I want, too 🙂 Basically, give me the X-Pro3, ditch the rear screen comp,etely, stick an X-T EVF up in the top left corner, and take my money.

The X-Pro2 is damn close enough though.

 Jeff Biscuits's gear list:Jeff Biscuits's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital II Ricoh GR Digital IV Fujifilm X20 Fujifilm XF10 Ricoh GR IIIx +14 more
OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

FTOG wrote:

A killer feature would be a custom setting section where you choose which settings to include in the memory bank of custom settings - and importantly which ones to exclude.

Indeed, and I think others have previously suggested this as a reaction to the changes introduced in the X-E4.

I think this applies to a few other things as well. View mode, for example. I don’t know about you, but I’d actually like to reduce the available options to two, and then be able to use a function button to instantly toggle them, instead of cycling through five modes, one of which seems silly and two more I don’t need. (Actually, assuming we’re keeping the screen, I’d just like to be able to shoot with the EVF/OVF without also having to use it for menus. Not sure why Fujifilm managed to realise for the X100V and XPro3 that people could use separate options for shooting and playback, without also realising that shooting isn’t the same as using the menu. “Shooting” and “everything else” would have been rather more useful IMO.)

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gdanmitchell
gdanmitchell Veteran Member • Posts: 7,991
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

Basically, I think you have simply realized that you are a likely XPro shooter rather than a XE shooter. (My first Fujifilm x-trans camera was the XE1 a decade ago, but I moved to the XPro2... which I prefer over the XPro3, but I digress.

I agree with you that the "1/180 X" shutter speed option is a bizarre bit of interface design —  it would bother me, too. Perhaps they should have just had a "X" position somewhere completely  different on the dial.

The decrease in the number of manual controls on the XE simply reflects, I think, that Fujifilm regards the target market for the camera to be less sophisticated photographers whose highest value is small camera size and low cost, and who Fujifilm anticipates will mostly work in automated modes. There is an argument for this approach as it does keep costs low, but I also think that Fujifilm could push this as a full-featured camera for travel if they just put the same controls on it that they put on other cameras. Of course (speaking as a street photographer myself) they may also recognize that a full-featured XE would compete more with the XPro line...*

About the "full manual" business... I've photographed long enough that I began on cameras without any automation at all — no meter, to AE, no AF, etc. My native mode is manual. However, for street photography and similar I'm actually a very big fan of aV mode at this point. I want control of aperture for obvious reasons, and I want to be able to change ISO without too much trouble... but I don't really need a manual shutter speed control. I go with the meter-determined value there, changing ISO and/or aperture if it goes out of range. To compensate for tricky lighting it is just as effective to use the EC offset as to change shutter speed manually.'

Dan

* The XE line really makes for a fine little street photography camera. At first I felt that I wanted OVF for this, which is why I got the XPro, but I often find myself working with the EVF these days.

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Doug MacMillan Veteran Member • Posts: 3,695
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

I agree with Dan. It sounds like the X-Pro will be a better fit. I have shot with a Pro2 and it is a wonderful camera.

Like Dan I started with all manual cameras. I've been shooting with Leica M3s since 1968. My E cameras are almost exactly the same size as my M3.

It looks like you've thought through your shooting style and your camera requirements. I hope you find what you are looking for. I do like the ISO dial on my H1, but have found a workflow with my  E cameras that works for me.

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OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

gdanmitchell wrote:

About the "full manual" business... I've photographed long enough that I began on cameras without any automation at all — no meter, to AE, no AF, etc. My native mode is manual. However, for street photography and similar I'm actually a very big fan of aV mode at this point. I want control of aperture for obvious reasons, and I want to be able to change ISO without too much trouble... but I don't really need a manual shutter speed control. I go with the meter-determined value there, changing ISO and/or aperture if it goes out of range. To compensate for tricky lighting it is just as effective to use the EC offset as to change shutter speed manually.'

Heh. Actually it was street recently, specifically on a bright day with extremely strong contrast, that pitched me back into manual. I was using the X100V and found that I worked best with fixed ISO and SS, adjusting the aperture to tune contrast (partly because that offered third-stop steps on a single control, but a bit more because it used my left hand, leaving the right to the sole job of timing the shutter). I’ve spent a long time thinking aperture-first that I was surprised how well this worked. Had the light been less contrasty I probably would have stuck with aperture priority and the EC dial, but as it was the metering was all over the place depending on where I pointed the camera.

There is, of course, no “correct” way of working 🙂 And there’s a key challenge of design: creating something which achieves the goal of “don’t get in the any of the user’s process” when there are numerous viable processes. Let’s be honest, for the most part Fuji have done a pretty good job of that.

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OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

Doug MacMillan wrote:

I agree with Dan. It sounds like the X-Pro will be a better fit. I have shot with a Pro2 and it is a wonderful camera.

Indeed, and that’s my conclusion near the end of the post, but I can’t blame anyone for overlooking it after the amount of waffle that precedes it.

I now have the X100V and X-Pro2 and both are close enough to perfect for now. I’ll see what the X-Pro4 brings 😉

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Remcodb
Remcodb Regular Member • Posts: 133
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series

Get the iso out of you custom settings and assign it to the back dial. Problem solved.

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OP Jeff Biscuits Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Custom settings and how I’ve lost my love for the X-E series
1

Remcodb wrote:

Get the iso out of you custom settings and assign it to the back dial. Problem solved.

You can’t get ISO out of custom settings—that’s basically the entire point of the original post 🙂

However, you did prompt me to pick up the camera and try something.

I can’t see a way of assigning it to the rear dial, but it can be assigned to the front. This results in it sharing the front dial with shutter speed, with a click toggling between those two modes. As previously mentioned, I have shutter speed turned off on the dial, so the net result is that I can press the dial to make ISO selectable, then select the ISO, then press the dial to make it select shutter speed (which, being disabled, effectively deactivates the dial). It’s rather a fudge of a workaround with a slightly misleading UI in the display, and it only works for ISO, but it’s an improvement.

Fundamentally, though, the core issue remains: selecting a new set of custom settings means having to change the ISO. It’s now just a bit easier to change ISO (so thanks).

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