My New Approach To RAW Processing

cfieldgate wrote:

No, not at all 😀.

I have a preset much like yours in DxO PhotoLab and just use it just for demosaicing, lens corrections and denoising with Deep Prime. All my editing before and after the trip to DxO PhotoLab is done in LrC.

How can you edit anything before DxO Photolab?

Although, I will occasionally use Photoshop layers and the TK8 plug-in for masks etc. for any final polishing if needed.

DanInSoCal wrote:

KevinRA wrote:

I found too PureRAW not to my liking for some of these reasons - answer was Photolab 5 where can fine tune and turn off sharpness if not wanted or turn all down.....

Unfortunately this doesn't fix the size issue or the speed issue.

Dan

Don't it fix the size issues if you don't export dng files?

And by the way in PL5 you can keep on working on another photo while one or more files are beeing processed.

BertIverson wrote:

Kokopelli_Rocks wrote:

After I bought my R5 last year I continued to use LR (LR user since version 1). I was not happy with the results I was getting with LR and decided to try different RAW tools. After several months of testing I settled on DXO PL4. I agree with you the product is resource intensive. I was using a 6+ year old XPS with a I-7 6700 with 16GB. I doubled my memory to 32 and the software ran better, but the processing of image was slooooow. The results were good so I continued to use DXO and upgraded to version 5.

Last wee I was in Costco and saw a sale on a Dell XPS 8950, I-7 12700, 32 GB, and GeForce 3060 with 8GB, Killer™ WiFi 6 (2x2/160) Gig+ and Bluetooth® 5.2. Best of all the machine was $400 off. I am very impressed with the new Alder Lake CPUs the first Intel CPUs using 10nm process.

So how does the system perform with DXO - all I can say is amazing. Takes a few seconds to process an R5 RAW image (not cRAW). So fast, that I don't even have time to start on my next image before the first is complete. The new system is great with DXO PL5, Topaz and Luminar Neo.

I know my solution is not possible for everyone, but I am thrilled with the new system. The upgrade cost less than an R7.

Glad to hear this result since I am in the process of a similar computer upgrade.
Ryzen 9, 32GB, 1TB SSD, RTX3080, 2TB HDD. Have not had a chance to try it out yet.
Now my computer costs more than my camera system

Question: Is there any setup ritual required to get PL5 using the graphics card?

Bert

Sounds like you have quite a machine. I am not a gamer and the 3060 card is perfect for my photo processing needs. I did not have to do anything to setup  the GPU for DXO. According to the info on the website DXO will detect the GPU.

I moved one of my 8 TB HDs to my new system and added a fast 16 TB drive. I like to have my current pictures and backups on my system. I also have several external backups and cloud backup.

Until I started using several new AI based photo editing programs my old machine chugged away just fine. I am glad I was able to now upgrade, will make my post processing much faster.

I import my RAW images to LrC and cull them. In doing so I apply an import preset and may make some additional edits e.g. exposure, whites & blacks, crop etc. as part of the selection process.

The selected images are then sent on a round trip to DxO PhotoLab. The way the DxO/ LrC plug-in works is that it sends the unedited RAW file to DxO PhotoLab.

I apply a default preset I have created in DxO PhotoLab and may adjust Lens Sharpening to taste. I rarely make any other changes.

I then export back to LrC and the demosaiced DNG file appears in the same LrC folder as the original RAW file. As part of this import the edits I made to the original imported RAW file are automatically applied to the DNG.

Just curious, how do you deal with events that have at least a few hundreds of photos? How long would it take to process them?

I was at a State Fair last week, ended with around 1,000 shots at the end of the day. Culled to 363 shots and processed all in 3-4 hours. I'm using darktable on Ubuntu so my workflow is probably irrelevant to you (and Adobe software has a bad rep in terms of demosaicing my Fujiflm cameras with X-Trans).

If you're after sharpness, the free/open-source GMIC library has Richardson-Lucy deconvolution that doesn't add halo, with params/options for various strengths.

https://gmic.eu/reference/deblur_richardsonlucy.html

Here are your posted screenshots ran through RL-deblur with sigma=1 and iteration=10, just in case you're interest (I was aiming at the left side, thus, the right side is overdone).

I posted a few sample shots here if you're interested in my outputs (I don't have an artist in me, though )

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4667969

I normally import all images into LR and do the culling there.

I then select all the images I want to work on and send them to PhotoLab as outlined in my first post.

Once the images are in PhotoLab I again select all and then apply my preset (PureRAW) to all the images using the menu.

Then I export them all back into LR.

This doesn't take that long, a cup of coffee and a snack 

Then, once the images are back in LR I again apply my chosen preset that will contain the camera profile and any basic tweaks.

Hundreds of images will of course take a while to edit, but that is always the case.

Thanks for the sharpening info, very interesting.

Way too much work for my liking, but if you're happy with the results, that's all that matters.

I would say Lightroom has somewhat better detail on the peep.  DXO 5.4 may appear to have better detail at normal viewing, but I would say you're simply seeing higher default contrast on your Rendering preset.  Lightroom is pretty hard to beat for sharpening and lack of crunchy enharmonic artifacts.  Certainly much better than any of the Photoshop filters.

Noise reduction we know about ;^)

Imaging Resource

DPR

Moire

Not my experience. I have been a LR user since version 1 and upgraded to ever version since 1.0. Processed thousands of images with LR. Last year I was getting frustrated with the output of LR I tried several different RAW products and found I liked the output of DXO PL4 and PL5 the best. I also, have Topaz products on my system. Personally I am a big fan of the new AI approach to processing photos.

Glad you found what you like, but I am very much in agreement with Mads.

TorsteinH wrote:

DanInSoCal wrote:

KevinRA wrote:

I found too PureRAW not to my liking for some of these reasons - answer was Photolab 5 where can fine tune and turn off sharpness if not wanted or turn all down.....

Unfortunately this doesn't fix the size issue or the speed issue.

Dan

Don't it fix the size issues if you don't export dng files?

Strangley even exported jpegs are larger than”normal”.  I do export jpeg - having done all key processing in PL5 which “need” 12 or 14 bit, shadow lifts white balance etc.  Guess it is not applying any compression?

And by the way in PL5 you can keep on working on another photo while one or more files are beeing processed.

Yes.  It does seem processor intensive for basic tasks such as simply displaying though....

Torstein

KevinRA wrote:

TorsteinH wrote:

DanInSoCal wrote:

KevinRA wrote:

I found too PureRAW not to my liking for some of these reasons - answer was Photolab 5 where can fine tune and turn off sharpness if not wanted or turn all down.....

Unfortunately this doesn't fix the size issue or the speed issue.

Dan

Don't it fix the size issues if you don't export dng files?

Strangley even exported jpegs are larger than”normal”. I do export jpeg - having done all key processing in PL5 which “need” 12 or 14 bit, shadow lifts white balance etc. Guess it is not applying any compression?

In PL5 you can select the compression level when exporting.

And by the way in PL5 you can keep on working on another photo while one or more files are beeing processed.

Yes. It does seem processor intensive for basic tasks such as simply displaying though....

My Ryzenn 5700G with 32GB RAM has no issues...

Torstein

cfieldgate wrote:

I import my RAW images to LrC and cull them. In doing so I apply an import preset and may make some additional edits e.g. exposure, whites & blacks, crop etc. as part of the selection process.

The selected images are then sent on a round trip to DxO PhotoLab. The way the DxO/ LrC plug-in works is that it sends the unedited RAW file to DxO PhotoLab.

I apply a default preset I have created in DxO PhotoLab and may adjust Lens Sharpening to taste. I rarely make any other changes.

I then export back to LrC and the demosaiced DNG file appears in the same LrC folder as the original RAW file. As part of this import the edits I made to the original imported RAW file are automatically applied to the DNG.

Whatever you do to a RAW file in LrC must be lost when it arrives at PL, unless LrC also use a sidecar file to inform PL.

Indeed. I guess that is how it works. I save XMP files in LrC.

When in DxO PhotoLab it’s clear that my LrC edits are not applied. However, on return to LrC my edits to the RAW file are then automatically applied to the DNG created by DxO PhotoLab.

TorsteinH wrote:

KevinRA wrote:

TorsteinH wrote:

DanInSoCal wrote:

KevinRA wrote:

I found too PureRAW not to my liking for some of these reasons - answer was Photolab 5 where can fine tune and turn off sharpness if not wanted or turn all down.....

Unfortunately this doesn't fix the size issue or the speed issue.

Dan

Don't it fix the size issues if you don't export dng files?

Strangley even exported jpegs are larger than”normal”. I do export jpeg - having done all key processing in PL5 which “need” 12 or 14 bit, shadow lifts white balance etc. Guess it is not applying any compression?

In PL5 you can select the compression level when exporting.

+1      But 100%  is a bigger file than either out of camera max size or PS /  LR max size —  wonder why?

And by the way in PL5 you can keep on working on another photo while one or more files are beeing processed.

Yes. It does seem processor intensive for basic tasks such as simply displaying though....

My Ryzenn 5700G with 32GB RAM has no issues

...

Torstein

-- hide signature --

Torstein

cfieldgate wrote:

Indeed. I guess that is how it works. I save XMP files in LrC.

When in DxO PhotoLab it’s clear that my LrC edits are not applied. However, on return to LrC my edits to the RAW file are then automatically applied to the DNG created by DxO PhotoLab.

If you as expected don't see any trace of the LrC edits in PL I believe its just LrC that remember its own settings and apply them too the linear dng files that PL makes.

So maybee you can get even better results if you don't do any RAW editing in LrC before PL, but wait until PL has finished?

MichaelAwkward wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

Way too much work for my liking, but if you're happy with the results, that's all that matters.

I would say Lightroom has somewhat better detail on the peep. DXO 5.4 may appear to have better detail at normal viewing, but I would say you're simply seeing higher default contrast on your Rendering preset. Lightroom is pretty hard to beat for sharpening and lack of crunchy enharmonic artifacts. Certainly much better than any of the Photoshop filters.

Noise reduction we know about ;^)

Imaging Resource

DPR

Moire

What camera made these raws

As shown top left, the A7r4

and what sharpening did you use on the PS one?

Lightroom

My Import preset, followed by Enhance Details, which eliminates most of the moire with zero increase in artifacts.

The DXO looks unsharpened.

DXO

I can't make the details look any better with DXO no matter what settings I try.  Increasing the USM Intensity slider doesn't help.

The DPR and Imaging Resource raws are available for anyone to try.

The DXO looks unsharpened.

DXO

I can't make the details look any better with DXO no matter what settings I try. Increasing the USM Intensity slider doesn't help.

The DPR and Imaging Resource raws are available for anyone to try.

Did you try my settings from the original post?
If not, then try the following:

In PhotoLab:
Turn OFF Unsharp Mask
Turn ON DeepPrime
Turn ON Lens Sharpness and set Global to something around +0.7 as a starting point (leave detail and bokeh at defaults)

In LR:
Turn OFF Unsharp Mask
Turn OFF Noise reduction
Turn OFF Enable Lens Corrections (already applied in PL)

Make sure in PL that you have downloaded the lens profiles for your lenses.

Here is the result of that processing.
My file in LR is viewed at 200%

Your screen shot Left - my DxO processed DNG in LR on the right (200%)

Your screen shot Left - my DxO processed DNG in LR on the right (300%)

Zero processing active in LR - Camera profile set to default (Adobe Color)

To avoid the likelyhood that the screen shot you posted is unfavourably resized, here is the DPR raw version compared to the DxO processed version (viewed in LR)

LR processed raw file Left vs DxO processed DNG on the right. LR processed file has default sharpening applied.

I do see a decent improvement, what do you think?

Mads Bjerke wrote:

The DXO looks unsharpened.

I can't make the details look any better with DXO no matter what settings I try. Increasing the USM Intensity slider doesn't help.

The DPR and Imaging Resource raws are available for anyone to try.

Did you try my settings from the original post?
If not, then try the following:

In PhotoLab:
Turn OFF Unsharp Mask
Turn ON DeepPrime
Turn ON Lens Sharpness and set Global to something around +0.7 as a starting point (leave detail and bokeh at defaults)

In LR:
Turn OFF Unsharp Mask
Turn OFF Noise reduction
Turn OFF Enable Lens Corrections (already applied in PL)

Make sure in PL that you have downloaded the lens profiles for your lenses.

Here is the result of that processing.
My file in LR is viewed at 200%

Zero processing active in LR - Camera profile set to default (Adobe Color)

To avoid the likelyhood that the screen shot you posted is unfavourably resized, here is the DPR raw version compared to the DxO processed version (viewed in LR)

I do see a decent improvement, what do you think?

Having gone through my first trial pic using Unsharp Mask and no noise reduction or lens profile, this time I followed your recommended settings to the letter:

DXO left, LR right

On my monitor, the LR Camera Standard profile has a good notch more pop than the DXO version.

Notice the application of Enhanced Details.

This is a big deal because it digs out a few percentage points of acuity at the molecular level while increasing artifacts not at all. It also eliminates about 80-90% of false color and moire as well as a fair bit of aliasing without messing with the colors:

DXO Moire @ 100% left, Enhance Details in LR right

DPR Moire Torture Test

Every keeper I do is put through Enhanced Details.

Color Comparison

Closer

Stars

And last but not least:

DPR

As well, the five minute processing time per pic for the DXO Deep Prime export is simply not worth the hassle, even if the details were better. At 115MB per raw, I'm not ever going to be hurting for res no matter what raw conversion I use. If I shot any amount of high ISO, I might have a different slant on the whole deal and cough up the extra $250 for DXO, but as it stands, Lightroom and Photoshop with Denoise AI are everything I need to bring out the best in my masterpieces :^)