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Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Hayden N Regular Member • Posts: 137
Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?

Just brought this lens used with a 5dsr and I'm having trouble getting even sharpness across the frame in landscape shots. attached is a landscape photo which shows both sides of the image going soft despite everything being focused at Infinity, yet when I shoot a brick wall all corners look fine and evenly sharp, trying to figure out what's going on

Canon EOS 5DS R
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gipper51 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,904
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?
2

Couple of things: your chosen aperture and focus method.

That shot with that much distance from foreground to background...f4 isn't gonna get everything in focus at 29mm. Not enough depth of field. Try f8 or f11.

For focusing, use live view and find the focal distance where it works best for the scene and focal length. I don't rely on the distance scale. Set the button on the front of the camera to close down your aperture and you can see this in real time what you have in focus at the selected aperture. Pan around the frame in live view and check the overall scene. You'll have to do some testing here.

Note that a 50MP camera will magnify any errors in your technique compared to lower res cameras. This is what people talk about when they say high resolution cameras are 'not forgiving'.

I looked at your full res photo and I don't see anything evil going on with your lens. This is a technique issue IMO.

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KevinRA Senior Member • Posts: 1,466
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?
1

Ok - well I think there could be a little field curvature here at the infinity setting - at middle distance it does not look bad.  The sides look equal to me so not a tilt.

The 5DSR and R5 are super demanding on sensors - and at f/4 issues will show up at pixel peeping.  Topaz Sharpen AI would sort all bar the very foreground here which is an issue too in the centre.

I'd shoot this at f/8.

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CameraCarl Veteran Member • Posts: 9,204
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?
1

Exactly where were you focused for the landscape shot? How far away was your target? Were you on a tripod? The corners are probably unsharp because they are out of the depth of field. To test this, find another brick wall that is the same distance from your camera that your focusing point for the landscape shot was. Then repeat your brick wall test and check your results.  Another way to check for decentering is to take a photo, then rotate the camera 180 degrees (turn it upside down) and take the same photo. Then check the edges and corners. Franky I don't think there is anything wrong with the lens. It isn't going to be sharp edge to edge and corner to corner at f4 under the conditions you faced in that landscape. You need to stop down even a wide angle lens.

OP Hayden N Regular Member • Posts: 137
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?

CameraCarl wrote:

Exactly where were you focused for the landscape shot? How far away was your target? Were you on a tripod? The corners are probably unsharp because they are out of the depth of field. To test this, find another brick wall that is the same distance from your camera that your focusing point for the landscape shot was. Then repeat your brick wall test and check your results. Another way to check for decentering is to take a photo, then rotate the camera 180 degrees (turn it upside down) and take the same photo. Then check the edges and corners. Franky I don't think there is anything wrong with the lens. It isn't going to be sharp edge to edge and corner to corner at f4 under the conditions you faced in that landscape. You need to stop down even a wide angle lens.

Focus for the landscape photo was on the trees just to the right of buildings which were at least 1km into the distance,was handheld, Even at f4 I would expect the plain of focus to cover everything but the foreground.

Will try the other method you mentioned.

CameraCarl Veteran Member • Posts: 9,204
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?

I don't have a depth of field calculator handy but I'm guessing that at F4 and focused to infinity you are not going to have something 4feet away in focus at a 29mm focal length .  You ought to check it out.

OP Hayden N Regular Member • Posts: 137
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?

CameraCarl wrote:

I don't have a depth of field calculator handy but I'm guessing that at F4 and focused to infinity you are not going to have something 4feet away in focus at a 29mm focal length . You ought to check it out.

Yes I agree and wasn't expecting the foreground to be in focus, main concern for me was the top right corner which looks like mush and is kilometers into the distance  same for the upper left side which looks soft also.

KevinRA Senior Member • Posts: 1,466
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?
1

Hayden N wrote:

CameraCarl wrote:

I don't have a depth of field calculator handy but I'm guessing that at F4 and focused to infinity you are not going to have something 4feet away in focus at a 29mm focal length . You ought to check it out.

Yes I agree and wasn't expecting the foreground to be in focus, main concern for me was the top right corner which looks like mush and is kilometers into the distance same for the upper left side which looks soft also.

Ok, do see what you mean in far corners.  There could be some field curvature.  Strongly advise f/8.

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Marquee Regular Member • Posts: 407
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?
1

KevinRA wrote:

Hayden N wrote:

CameraCarl wrote:

I don't have a depth of field calculator handy but I'm guessing that at F4 and focused to infinity you are not going to have something 4feet away in focus at a 29mm focal length . You ought to check it out.

Yes I agree and wasn't expecting the foreground to be in focus, main concern for me was the top right corner which looks like mush and is kilometers into the distance same for the upper left side which looks soft also.

Ok, do see what you mean in far corners. There could be some field curvature. Strongly advise f/8.

The bushes just past the foreground rocks are in focus which must be only 50m away so @F4 I would be surprised if the plane of focus is as far away as the dark pines to the right of the buildings. Did you focus and recompose? Is there a danger the camera refocused when you took the shot? At F4 there is no way the range of distance in the picture would be covered by the DoF. You need at least F9 possibly more. The corners do look mushy but until you try a narrower aperture we wont know if its a problem. the lens is a good all rounder but as you approach 35mm the corners will detreriorate a bit, especially on a 50Mpix body.

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MitchAlsup Veteran Member • Posts: 5,518
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?

Hayden N wrote:

CameraCarl wrote:

Exactly where were you focused for the landscape shot? How far away was your target? Were you on a tripod? The corners are probably unsharp because they are out of the depth of field. To test this, find another brick wall that is the same distance from your camera that your focusing point for the landscape shot was. Then repeat your brick wall test and check your results. Another way to check for decentering is to take a photo, then rotate the camera 180 degrees (turn it upside down) and take the same photo. Then check the edges and corners. Franky I don't think there is anything wrong with the lens. It isn't going to be sharp edge to edge and corner to corner at f4 under the conditions you faced in that landscape. You need to stop down even a wide angle lens.

Focus for the landscape photo was on the trees just to the right of buildings which were at least 1km into the distance,was handheld, Even at f4 I would expect the plain of focus to cover everything but the foreground.

Will try the other method you mentioned.

It is clear that the point of the image in focus is that grove of trees/bushes.

F/4 does not have "that" great a Depth of Field.

For a shot like this, you should be using F/8-F/11. But because of the high resolution sensor (50MP) you should try to stay away from F/11 as much as you can (it has its own blur start to show up.)

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Sittatunga Veteran Member • Posts: 5,413
Re: Canon Ef 16-35 f4 Decentered or some other issue?

MitchAlsup wrote:

Hayden N wrote:

CameraCarl wrote:

Exactly where were you focused for the landscape shot? How far away was your target? Were you on a tripod? The corners are probably unsharp because they are out of the depth of field. To test this, find another brick wall that is the same distance from your camera that your focusing point for the landscape shot was. Then repeat your brick wall test and check your results. Another way to check for decentering is to take a photo, then rotate the camera 180 degrees (turn it upside down) and take the same photo. Then check the edges and corners. Franky I don't think there is anything wrong with the lens. It isn't going to be sharp edge to edge and corner to corner at f4 under the conditions you faced in that landscape. You need to stop down even a wide angle lens.

Focus for the landscape photo was on the trees just to the right of buildings which were at least 1km into the distance,was handheld, Even at f4 I would expect the plain of focus to cover everything but the foreground.

Will try the other method you mentioned.

It is clear that the point of the image in focus is that grove of trees/bushes.

F/4 does not have "that" great a Depth of Field.

For a shot like this, you should be using F/8-F/11. But because of the high resolution sensor (50MP) you should try to stay away from F/11 as much as you can (it has its own blur start to show up.)

Don't forget that the size of the circle of confusion used for calculating depth of field depends on the print size. The usual standard is about 30 micrometres for something like an A4 print. That's about 7x the pixel pitch of your 5Ds (4.13 micrometres). In other words, unless you can specify your circle of confusion or a huge print size, you should calculate the depth of field for 5 or 6 stops wider than the one you are using if you're concerned about pixel sharpness at its limits. Lack of depth of field can cost you a lot more sharpness than diffraction softening, which is why macro lenses, traditionally the sharpest lenses in a system, used to stop down to f/32.

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