Limits of my camera and lens?

I'm wondering if you guys could give me some advice.

I took these last night. It was about 7:30 PM in the first week of August. I wanted to capture the moon shining through a gap in the leaves of a nearby tree, and I wound up with a hazy, blurry mess.

I was in aperture priority mode, and in looking at the EXIF data, I noticed that the camera had maxed out the ISO at 12800 and set the shutter speed at1/13.

So, my questions are:

Was 1/13 too slow for handheld? Should I have used a tripod?

ShouldI have put the camera in Manual and deliberately set a faster shutter speed? Was the blurry moon the result of the 1/13th speed, or just trying to do it handheld?

Was there just not enough light for autofocus to work? Should I have switched over to manual focus? The light was so dim, I can't tell if the leaves are in focus, and the moon is out of focus - which is not what I wanted. I had the camera in single point and aimed at the moon, but I'm wondering if the camera overrode me and chose the nearby elements of the leaves.

The night sky wasn't nearly so bright blue as it seems in the photos. It was actually quite dark. Should I have taken it out of auto ISO?

It looks like I've got lens flare going on in the first photo. Is that the result of pointing the camera directly at the light source?

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Steve Thomas

There is a lot to consider when imaging the night sky. Obliviously, your equipment has limits, but there is a lot out of your control.

To my eyes, the leaves look in focus (or close to in focus) and therefore you probably have a depth of field problem in these images. Or atmospheric haze could be degrading the image of the moon as well. But there is more to deal with than that.

I found this thread on shooting the moon:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3684935

It seems to have a lot of good suggestions. Taking good images of the moon is more difficult than you would think. The apparent motion of the moon and stars is faster than you perceive when looking up. The dynamic range of a bright moon and a dark sky adds complications as well. Spot metering is called for and even then bracketing is necessary. You will still have a lot of throwaways. In addition there is often fog or haze and light pollution that must be dealt with. Here in the Atlanta area I find the best evenings to shoot sky pictures typically are in the winter. There is much less haze producing ozone in the atmosphere since plants are not growing and the relative humidity is typically lower. A clear, chilly night in 30's (or lower) Fahrenheit with steady light winds seems best.

Using a tripod helps, but it is really not hard to do handheld. I usually don't use one on the moon.

I put my equipment in ziplock bags to cool down outside before shooting and warm back up after shooting. This cuts down on condensation. This is especially important when coming back inside. Dampness is not the camera's best friend.

Here is a good discussion of shooting the night sky in general:

https://shuttermuse.com/how-to-avoid-star-trails/

There is a lot of information online about this. Just do searches on what you are looking for.

Hope this helps.

Glenn

stevet1 wrote:

Was 1/13 too slow for handheld? Should I have used a tripod?

Yes to both.

A general rule of thumb (in the absence of IS / VR) is your shutter speed should be at least as fast as the reciprocal of your focal length. E.g., at 55mm it should be at least 1/55 second more or less. Of course that's just a general rule but it's a starting point. I certainly can't handhold 1/13.

I'd never attempt a low-light shot without a tripod or resting the camera on something solid.

Should I have put the camera in Manual and deliberately set a faster shutter speed? Was the blurry moon the result of the 1/13th speed, or just trying to do it handheld?

Again, yes to manual. To get you started you can fiddle with ISO, shutter speed and f/stop to get some kind of acceptable exposure, then tweak the up/down to get the best combination of noise, DOF and clarity. The T8i will show a live histogram in Live View, so use that to get in the right area.

I suspect the shutter speed was less of a factor than handholding. I usually bracket quite a bit under difficult circumstances. Electrons are cheap.

Was there just not enough light for autofocus to work? Should I have switched over to manual focus? The light was so dim, I can't tell if the leaves are in focus, and the moon is out of focus - which is not what I wanted. I had the camera in single point and aimed at the moon, but I'm wondering if the camera overrode me and chose the nearby elements of the leaves.

The camera won't override a chosen focus point but at 1/13 second any breath of wind will blur the leaves. There may well be no way to get both perfectly sharp. Stopping motion blur will require 1/125 or faster, depending on the motion. Getting the moon at that shutter speed is a stretch to say the least. For example this image...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/56qRdrZuCKAxpQ6E6

...per the on-image notes was taken at 1/160 at f/9, but that was through a telescope with 4" aperture on a tracking mount. That's much more aperture (and hence, light-gathering ability) than a camera lens.

Also the moon is at true infinity, so you'll need to either stop down or focus stack to get the tree in focus as well. Don't try autofocus in the dark. Use Live View, zoom in 10x and focus on whatever is your primary target -- probably the moon in this case, and given the low light. Pick a sharp edge or detail and manually focus it as well as possible. Make sure Focus Peaking is turned on so when you go back to 1x on the LCD you'll see (by default) red highlights on what's in focus.

What you're trying to do -- both near leaves and infinity moon in focus -- might be tough at best.

The night sky wasn't nearly so bright blue as it seems in the photos. It was actually quite dark. Should I have taken it out of auto ISO?

Yes -- Always manually set ISO. I never use Auto ISO at all. There might be some isolated uses for it, but certainly not at night. Offhand, I might be tempted to start around 1600 ISO and go up / down from there after testing. Also, the moon is gonna move if your exposure is too long. You can read up on the "500" or "300" rule of thumb about that, although I think both are optimistic. Also there's basically no way around it - With a nighttime shot you're gonna have to do some noise reduction in post.

It looks like I've got lens flare going on in the first photo. Is that the result of pointing the camera directly at the light source?

Yes. Some lenses are more or less prone to flare, too. Also, stop down one f/stop from the max open aperture your lens will do. The image quality will almost always be better.

And you are shooting raw, right? Don't shoot JPG.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

Steve Thomas

I found this and thought you might enjoy reading it.  A lot of info about shooting the Moon.

PhotoPills is a multi-purpose photo app for phones and tablets. I have never used it so I cannot recommend it or comment on it.

https://www.photopills.com/articles/moon-photography-guide?sc_src=email_26821&sc_lid=2689523&sc_uid=yXxuvaXe8w&sc_llid=4450&sc_customer=CED53079955BB88F092F5985ADFF57D4534B8F622DAF2668A4597B4DBD4EFBE2&utm_medium=Email%2026821&utm_campaign=Content+Newsletter&utm_source=220817_BAU_BAU_Content_Email_Landscape%2020220817&utm_content=&utm_term=A+Complete+Guide+to+Moon+Photography+%E2%80%94+from+Photopills&encEmail=CED53079955BB88F092F5985ADFF57D4534B8F622DAF2668A4597B4DBD4EFBE2

Glenn

Oldpanda wrote:

I found this and thought you might enjoy reading it. A lot of info about shooting the Moon.

Thanks Glenn.

Steve Thomas

Regarding the flare problem, were you using a UV filter?

A UV, or "protective" filter can actually make flare worse, especially (IMO) when shooting directly at the moon. I've suffer from such a problem. In the end I stopped using a UV filter all the time.

BTW I only (so far) use a really cheap filters.

Jethro B-UK wrote:

Regarding the flare problem, were you using a UV filter?

A UV, or "protective" filter can actually make flare worse, especially (IMO) when shooting directly at the moon. I've suffer from such a problem. In the end I stopped using a UV filter all the time.

BTW I only (so far) use a really cheap filters.

Jethro,

Yes I do.

I'll have to give your suggestion a try. I have a Hoya filter mounted all the time. I'll have to try taking it off for a while.

Steve Thomas