Camera suggestions

Hello Rick, Kendall, other old-time readers who may remember me! I haven't taken many photos in the past 2 years or so, and trips anywhere have been limited pretty much around our home state of Virginia since Covid appeared. My husband and my last trip with  any photos of note was to Scotland in April 2019; many DPMerrill photos are visible on my flickr stream which you can find under Sandy Fleischmann. I've just downloaded the lastest SPP6.8.2 and processed a couple Shenandoah Valley VA area photos. One is linked (I hope) at the end of this post. My newest cameras are still the DP2Merrill and DP3Merrill (along with DP1M my go-to cameras). I'm tempted indeed by the SPQuattro since I could use my various Sigma lenses with it. The extra pixels of the Quattro would be welcome too. I note again how DETAILED and wickedly sharp the Sigma landscape photos are; details of trees, rocks, sticks, rushes and reeds... Landscapes and flower shots are still my thing. Suggestions re new gear?
Best regards, Sandy

SandyF wrote:

Hello Rick, Kendall, other old-time readers who may remember me!

A warm welcome back to you, Sandy!

Welcome back Sandy.

As to cameras, my opinion is that the DP Merrill series was the apex of Sigma's camera division products - I never bought into the Quattros. Other people will differ.

But, as you like flower pix, you should get a focus rail to use with the DP3M, which is probably the best camera ever made for that particular craft. It's lot of fun; you can do it in your house, and the pictures are incredibly detailed, with nicely OOF backgrounds.

David

Hi Sandy!

Welcome back stranger.

I'm not sure you can do a lot better than the DP Merrills that you already have. David's suggestion is a good one if you're still interested in flower photography.

I didn't buy into the Sigma sd ILC system, but I did get the Sigma dp0 Quattro, which produces some stunning results if you're prepared to put in the effort.

Cliff View I - Kitty-Miller Bay, Phillip Island - ND and GND filters + SFD processing.

SandyF wrote:

Hello Rick, Kendall, other old-time readers who may remember me! I haven't taken many photos in the past 2 years or so, and trips anywhere have been limited pretty much around our home state of Virginia since Covid appeared. Sigma landscape photos are; details of trees, rocks, sticks, rushes and reeds... Landscapes and flower shots are still my thing. Suggestions re new gear?
Best regards, Sandy

Sandy,

You will not know me but I must say I learned a lot about post processing X3F files in SPP from your posts some years ago, especially regarding White Balance.

I wondered if you had given up Sigma photography since you disappeared off this forum some time ago.

I do not know what lenses you have but if they are the Global Vision ones I would suggest the sd Quattro or the sd Quattro H. If not the SD1M is still an excellent camera. I use both. The non GV lenses will work on the Quattros but depending on their age manual focus might be necessary. If they are the lenses just prior to the GV issue they work very well on the Quattros. Any Sigma lens will be ok on the SD!M.

I am sure you are aware that a Full Frame X3 sensor is in the planning stage, apparently the sensor at least will be ready later this year and  maybe, but less likely, the camera. That camera will be mirrorless and have the L mount. The SA lenses can be used with the MC-21 mount converter.

Good to see you back and looking forward to seeing your images again.

S

rick decker wrote:

Hi David: You use the focus rail on infinity images? I hav a rail and haven't used it in years. I will play around with it.

Rick

I don't know what you mean by 'infinity images'.

Thanks everyone for your kind replies. I have many older Sigma SA mount lenses going back to the days of my SD10/14/15. In general I seemed to switch to the DP then DPMerrill cameras as soon as they came out mainly for the growing # of pixels and resolution so important for landscapes. I'm a rock and tree counter LOL.

Analyzing what I miss most in the DPx cameras, it's an integral viewfinder! I hate composing from and on a screen. I've tried external viewfinders, sunlight blocking gadgets, used the vertical lines on the screen along the horizon etc without much success. Nothing beats holding a camera to the face.

I still process exclusively in SPP, shooting RAW+ JPEG to use the Jpegs for quick screening, then process selected RAWs. I've tried other cameras but usually then gave them away to family (including the heavy, large FF Canon). I just can't carry a huge cam and multiple lenses around these days. I tried a SD1 in Death Valley on one of our post PMA Sigma outings and found it heavy with big lenses. I don't think I'll go SD1. How much lighter or smaller is the SDQ or is it still a beast?  I only enjoy processing in SPP. I'm still somewhat unclear about lenses for the SDQ. I want the option of at least one mid-zoom. That's the strike against the prime DPQs for me.

I'm still somewhat unclear on what lenses work on the SDQ. All SA mount? Correct? But then it's just a question of what auto focuses and is sharp?

Thanks, Sandy

Hi Paul, Nice to meet you and thanks for the kind words. I came to Sigma and Foveon differently from most here. I was not into photography until after the SD10 came out. But I met Dick Merrill I think before the SD9 even was released, through his speaking about Foveon and demonstrating the SD9 prototype at a technology conference. I think I have a photo somewhere on pbase of him at a later conference too. We were taking photos in a surprise snowstorm at Lake Tahoe. I'll see if I can find it still online.

Best regards, Sandy edit/add can't find the exact photo but there are many 'historic' Foveon and early SD9 (even prototype I think) photos on pbase. Have a look if you are not familiar with early SD9 photos! Find the totem pole. Wow it was magic for a digital photo at the time period.

SandyF wrote:

Thanks everyone for your kind replies. I have many older Sigma SA mount lenses going back to the days of my SD10/14/15. In general I seemed to switch to the DP then DPMerrill cameras as soon as they came out mainly for the growing # of pixels and resolution so important for landscapes. I'm a rock and tree counter LOL.

Analyzing what I miss most in the DPx cameras, it's an integral viewfinder! I hate composing from and on a screen. I've tried external viewfinders, sunlight blocking gadgets, used the vertical lines on the screen along the horizon etc without much success. Nothing beats holding a camera to the face.

I still process exclusively in SPP, shooting RAW+ JPEG to use the Jpegs for quick screening, then process selected RAWs. I've tried other cameras but usually then gave them away to family (including the heavy, large FF Canon). I just can't carry a huge cam and multiple lenses around these days. I tried a SD1 in Death Valley on one of our post PMA Sigma outings and found it heavy with big lenses. I don't think I'll go SD1. How much lighter or smaller is the SDQ or is it still a beast? I only enjoy processing in SPP. I'm still somewhat unclear about lenses for the SDQ. I want the option of at least one mid-zoom. That's the strike against the prime DPQs for me.

I'm still somewhat unclear on what lenses work on the SDQ. All SA mount? Correct? But then it's just a question of what auto focuses and is sharp?

Thanks, Sandy

I think you will find nothing auto-focuses reliably on the SD Quattro, but at least there is magnified view in the viewfinder AND on the screen, if you want to check focus. My experience with Sigma cameras and auto-focus has not been good (three different cameras and more than three lenses, including Art and Contemporary lenses. Since I generally manual focus my macro and long telephoto shots anyway, I found using the magnified view with my SD Quattro H to be a great way to focus. I generally use auto-focus with my big Nikon, but manual focus with my Sigmas.

To answer your quedtion about size, there is really no significant difference in size or weight between the SD1 Merrill and SD Quattro. Those little DP cameras are super, but unfortunately you're going to step up in size and weight, if you want a zoom lens.

Have you considered the new 28-70mm L mount lens, with the fp L (with optional viewfinder) at all? (That would probably be about the  smallest zoom set-up you could get, while maintaining good image quality.)

Scottelly wrote:

Have you considered the new 28-70mm L mount lens, with the fp L (with optional viewfinder) at all? (That would probably be about the smallest zoom set-up you could get, while maintaining good image quality.)

It also highlights the impact of going full frame mirrorless, as the modern 28-70mm DG DN is half the weight of the old 24-70mm for DSLR.

On the other hand, the 17-50mm DC lens you would use on the APS-C sd Quattro is only barely heavier than the new 28-70mm, so overall there isn't *that* much of a change.

DavidWright2010 wrote:

Welcome back Sandy.

As to cameras, my opinion is that the DP Merrill series was the apex of Sigma's camera division products - I never bought into the Quattros. Other people will differ.

But, as you like flower pix, you should get a focus rail to use with the DP3M, which is probably the best camera ever made for that particular craft. It's lot of fun; you can do it in your house, and the pictures are incredibly detailed, with nicely OOF backgrounds.

David

Are you using your focus rail for stacked images ?

Don

SandyF wrote:

Hello Rick, Kendall, other old-time readers who may remember me! I haven't taken many photos in the past 2 years or so, and trips anywhere have been limited pretty much around our home state of Virginia since Covid appeared. My husband and my last trip with any photos of note was to Scotland in April 2019; many DPMerrill photos are visible on my flickr stream which you can find under Sandy Fleischmann. I've just downloaded the lastest SPP6.8.2 and processed a couple Shenandoah Valley VA area photos. One is linked (I hope) at the end of this post. My newest cameras are still the DP2Merrill and DP3Merrill (along with DP1M my go-to cameras). I'm tempted indeed by the SPQuattro since I could use my various Sigma lenses with it. The extra pixels of the Quattro would be welcome too. I note again how DETAILED and wickedly sharp the Sigma landscape photos are; details of trees, rocks, sticks, rushes and reeds... Landscapes and flower shots are still my thing. Suggestions re new gear?
Best regards, Sandy

Hello Sandy. I think you're pondering the same issues as many other Sigma camera users and it's the reason why the promised new full frame Foveon sensor camera is much anticipated.

I got into Foveon cameras through the DP2 Merrill which I still have and go back to for landscape and architectural photography. It is simply excellent along with the DP3M.

The Quattro cameras had a rocky start but many years later, SPP and firmware updates seem to have improved them considerably. The sd Quattro H undoubtably performs best with the Art lenses which are huge and heavy; the 70mm Macro Art being the exception as it's quite light. On the whole, my sd Quattro H delivers very detailed photos and has a better battery life, bigger buffer etc but they are still slow to use unless you put them in Low Res. Also, the have Super Fine Detail (SFD) mode which improves photographing the inside of low light buildings like churches. A tripod is needed and the files are huge.

The Quattro focuses well with the Art lenses albeit a bit slowly. I don't bother using third party lenses on the sd Quattro as I'm disappointed by the soft results whereas they seem to work nicely on a Sony A7 or Sigma fp.

In my view, where the Quattro falters is when there are lawns, grassland and some fine tree foliage in the shot. The Quattro often (but not always) 'mushes' these up into a blur. It's not a good look and I don't know why it happens. It's a bit Jekyll and Hyde.

For landscapes, I feel the DP Merrills are still a high bar but I really wind down the sharpness in SPP.

Saying all of that, my absolute favourite and most used Sigma camera is the dp0 Quattro. The lens is superb and I enjoy the wide angle challenge.

Below is a dp0 Quattro image of some very old Lancia Lambda cars. It gives an idea of the camera's output.

Below is a hand held stitched panoramic using the sd Quattro H and the 135mm Art lens at f/5.6 in Hi res mode. You need to be a weight lifter!

The Quattro cameras come in for a lot of criticism because they are not 'pure' Foveon but I like their outputs, so, continue to use them.

As for the little full frame fp, as you know it it's a Bayer sensor camera. The images are very good but if you want to count leaves in the distance, forget it. For me, it's greatest attributes are it's compact size and it works well with adapted lenses, in particular my M mount lenses. It's a good 'street' and people camera and focuses ok on the back screen with enlarging and peeking.

Here's a snap using the fp with a Zeiss Sonnar f/1.5 at f/1.5. It's a very narrow field of focus.

Good luck!

D Cox wrote:

DavidWright2010 wrote:

Welcome back Sandy.

As to cameras, my opinion is that the DP Merrill series was the apex of Sigma's camera division products - I never bought into the Quattros. Other people will differ.

But, as you like flower pix, you should get a focus rail to use with the DP3M, which is probably the best camera ever made for that particular craft. It's lot of fun; you can do it in your house, and the pictures are incredibly detailed, with nicely OOF backgrounds.

David

Are you using your focus rail for stacked images ?

Don

For indoor shots, and outdoor shots when there is little or no wind, yes.

SandyF wrote:

Thanks everyone for your kind replies. I have many older Sigma SA mount lenses going back to the days of my SD10/14/15. In general I seemed to switch to the DP then DPMerrill cameras as soon as they came out mainly for the growing # of pixels and resolution so important for landscapes. I'm a rock and tree counter LOL.

Analyzing what I miss most in the DPx cameras, it's an integral viewfinder! I hate composing from and on a screen. I've tried external viewfinders, sunlight blocking gadgets, used the vertical lines on the screen along the horizon etc without much success. Nothing beats holding a camera to the face.

I still process exclusively in SPP, shooting RAW+ JPEG to use the Jpegs for quick screening, then process selected RAWs. I've tried other cameras but usually then gave them away to family (including the heavy, large FF Canon). I just can't carry a huge cam and multiple lenses around these days. I tried a SD1 in Death Valley on one of our post PMA Sigma outings and found it heavy with big lenses. I don't think I'll go SD1. How much lighter or smaller is the SDQ or is it still a beast? I only enjoy processing in SPP. I'm still somewhat unclear about lenses for the SDQ. I want the option of at least one mid-zoom. That's the strike against the prime DPQs for me.

I'm still somewhat unclear on what lenses work on the SDQ. All SA mount? Correct? But then it's just a question of what auto focuses and is sharp?

Thanks, Sandy

Sandy,

The Quattro is 625 g (1.38 lb / 22.05 oz) & the SD1M is 790g/27.9oz (including battery and card) so the Q is lighter.

All Sigma lenses will work on the sd Quattro but autofocus is "dodgy" on almost all the lenses before the Art. Contemporary and Sport ones. However the lenses that came out just before them such as the 17-50 f2.8 DC HSM. the 10-20mm f3.5, the 105mm f2.8 DG HSM Macro and others all work well on them.

I use the 17-70mm f2.8-4 a lot on my Quattro with excellent results, never a problem with focusing and it's very sharp.

This might help you https://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/sd-quattro/?tab=support&local=lens-correspondence

See jpg below for a fuller compatibility listing from Sigma.

There is a more comprehensive list of lens compatibility with the Quattros but I cannot find it right now.

S

Ceistinne, thanks very much for the info on the 17-70 f2.8-4 DC Macro HSM C. That's a zoom in the mid range I like. I photograph the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia so often (part of my backyard when at our country place) I like zooms rather than wide angle.. which squashes down our mountains LOL. Zoom makes them stand up more. They're not that high. Know anything about the 18-200. F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM C ?

I have a couple nice older zooms and primes. It might be sensible to pair the 30mmf1.4 Art often bundled with the SD Quattro with a mid range zoom. Then I have a very nice old 105mm Macro which does lovely distance too. I must pull out and play with the SD15 to see what lenses I have there. I have many discontinued lenses some excellent with the SD10/14/15. What ever happened to the 50mm prime? I have a lovely historic one which was my walk around prime on SD10/14/15.

Hello Sandy! Nice to meet you.

I'm on the sigma forum for a short time, if you'll allow me, just my short opinion.
Since you have an excellent DP1, 2, 3 Merrill, you just need to add an SD Quattro or SD1 Merrill camera with 70mm macro Art lens and 100-400mm Contemporary lens, or use a 105mm macro lens. A cheap, light, sharp 8-16mm / 17-70mm macro OS Conteporary zoom can be added. Seems like a simple, good solution to me before a new FF camera is released. I have the mentioned lenses. The 8-16mm lens is extremely wide and fun.

Peter.

furtle wrote:

As for the little full frame fp, as you know it it's a Bayer sensor camera. The images are very good but if you want to count leaves in the distance, forget it. For me, it's greatest attributes are it's compact size and it works well with adapted lenses, in particular my M mount lenses. It's a good 'street' and people camera and focuses ok on the back screen with enlarging and peeking.

Here's a snap using the fp with a Zeiss Sonnar f/1.5 at f/1.5. It's a very narrow field of focus.

Good luck!

My back-up for when my DP3M finally dies is a Canon M-series with the Sigma 56 mm lens.

With some sharpening in Topaz Sharpen AI, the detail from this Bayer sensor  is very close to the Foveon.

DP3Mm on right

I'm hoping the FFF will be in an fp-sized body.

David