New Fuji user in need of advice on shooting settings.

Ysarex wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Ysarex wrote:

JNR wrote:

Nothing stops me (or you) from dialing in what we believe is the correct amount of under- or sometimes over-exposure compensation in one-third stops - and still utilize the Auto DR to ensure that a blow out does not happen. I often do that. I agree that a full stop of lowered exposure (Auto never implements two stops)

Auto DR never implements one stop either. Auto DR doesn't kick in and lower exposure when it sets DR200. It's important to understand that and understand what's going on under the hood.

If you have Auto-ISO enabled, it most certainly does (and you should know this).

With AutoDR enabled as well, the camera will indeed automatically raise the ISO from the base ISO of160 up to 320 and purposely underexpose the sensor to increase the required highlight headroom as it sees fit. As an Auto-ISO user, this is one of my primary objections to using AutoDR (or any other DR mode) full-time - and that goes for jpeg shooting too.

OK -- I'm not an auto ISO user and I rarely think about it. SO, you're right. I was thinking that to use autoDR you had to pre-set the ISO at least 1 stop above base and in that case you were making a deliberate choice to underexpose. However I discovered an odd behavior with my X-T4: autoDR will not engage DR200 if I set the exposure manually while using auto ISO. The auto ISO works and will raise the ISO beyond 320 if warranted but no matter how high contrast the scene autoDR keeps DR100 if I'm setting the exposure manually with auto ISO. If however I hard set the ISO to a high enough value then autoDR will work with manual exposure. What gives?

If you take away the Auto-ISO’s ability to control SS, it can no longer increase the SS/reduce the exposure to make room for the required highlight headroom increase.

In low light situations where you are going to be well above base ISO anyway (and the DR modes don’t have to reduce sensor exposure to increase highlight headroom), I think they can be potentially very worthwhile for jpeg shooters and yes, some RAW shooters too.

seems like it is a bit too much, but then again the loss of the full stop compared to the gain in avoiding blow out is a trade off I will always want to make - because you aren't getting a false trigger.

As the OP indicated, he wants to know how well the system works on Fuji. I'm indicating that it very certainly works better than my experience with Pentax... where lenses (due to reliance on mechanical coupling variances, I suspect), as well as major inconsistencies in implementation from one body model to the next - made the entire exercise a lot of guess work. I haven't had that issue with the X-T20 and X-T2, and I'm pretty sure that the newer models work similarly well. I don't hear complaints about faulty metering, but you do hear many complaints about the histogram accuracy - and whether the warning system (which I find distracting) is triggering after one channel or two channels are blowing out. That's clear guess work going on I don't get when using DR Auto.

Finally, don't overlook the tonal curves implementation that comes along seamlessly in making the raw conversion from DR 200 (I don't use DR 400 so I can't say when it comes to two stops). At least when using Capture One, you always get an excellent starting point that has me double-checking when DR 200 has been implemented because it looks just about as good as regular exposure. When relying on the underexposure solely, you usually have more post processing to be done to get the right look.

By the way, I should mention how often I get into an action situation where the Auto DR does not trigger in one shot, but then a slight shift in my aim or field of view on a zoom causes a bright object, light sky or sun near the edge of the frame to show up and changes in the dynamic range results in the unexpected trigger. I don't have to worry about making exposure comp changes if the priority is to get that special moment. And believe me, you often are making those quick shifts at the time the ideal shot is coming into the frame.

Ysarex wrote:

JNR wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

If you have Auto-ISO enabled, it most certainly does (and you should know this).

With AutoDR enabled as well, the camera will indeed automatically raise the ISO from the base ISO of160 up to 320 and purposely underexpose the sensor to increase the required highlight headroom as it sees fit. As an Auto-ISO user, this is one of my primary objections to using AutoDR (or any other DR mode) full-time - and that goes for jpeg shooting too.
In low light situations where you are going to be well above base ISO anyway (and the DR modes don’t have to reduce sensor exposure to increase highlight headroom), I think they can be potentially very worthwhile for jpeg shooters and yes, some RAW shooters too.

Erik has this correct, and I certainly respect his decision to compensate on his own rather than ever rely on the body making the decision. Certainly, for shots like the gas station with the bright sign, Auto DR isn't a good idea because it might get fooled into mistakenly underexposing. Given that such a shot isn't time sensitive, you can take a variety of shots at different exposures - or just look at the results for each shot.

However, situations when the change in lighting or shooting angle is changing comes quickly right when you are trying to get a key shot, Auto DR can be a life saver if you don't mind the body doing that thinking. And, for me, Auto-ISO is my most used non-manual setting because I usually know exactly at what SS I want freeze in action to take place, and the optimal aperture / depth of field for the situation and lens used.

You're setting exposures manually then and relying on auto ISO to compensate for scene luminance? And while doing that you also set autoDR?

If the situation calls for that, yes that happens on occasion. If AutoDR triggers (again, not often the case), it is going to underexpose by adjusting ISO upward by one stop. Keep in mind, I always survey the scene (for backlighting, etc.) and set exposure compensation accordingly. The AutoDR is nothing more than a failsafe mechanism.

As such, Auto-ISO is the optimal variable. (I'm not a pixel peeper typically.)

All of these things vary based on the situation. I'm not rigid about any of it. However, I have a lot of experience with using Auto ISO (which typically only triggers for around 5% of the shots when I'm using it)... and I can say with confidence that it does not implement unless the shot has significant blow out. It seems to know that specular highlights should not trigger the higher ISO setting (DR 200).

Ysarex wrote:

My X-T4's behavior is odd regarding autoDR with the camera in manual and auto ISO. I found a lighting condition that causes autoDR to engage DR200 and placed the camera on a tripod. If I hard set the ISO with the camera in manual then as long as I set an ISO above 320 autoDR will activate DR200 no matter how high I set the ISO -- 3 stops above nuked highlights and DR200 kicks in. Likewise stops below well placed highlights and autoDR still sets DR200.

If I set the ISO to auto however and use the EC to force auto ISO to raise ISO autoDR basically disables. Any EC value above 0 and autoDR seems to lock out. At first I thought autoDR wasn't working if the camera was in manual with auto ISO set. That's not it. AutoDR seems not to function in manual exposure with auto ISO set and any positive EC value. Odd.

Totally agree that sounds odd. I'm wondering if that has something to do with DR Priority settings, but you don't use those, or some other setting. Don't blame you at all if you're getting those weird responses.

I don't see anything like that on the X-T2 or X-T20, but I'll look into it a bit more. Those bodies don't offer DR Priority - and I'm not interested in it. As I've said - on my bodies - everything just seems to work well on its own. The AutoDR just allows me to be a bit more aggressive with the EC in difficult situations, such as backlit faces. If I go a bit too far, the Auto DR just triggers as it should. No difference AFAICT regarding native ISO or the higher ISOs.

JNR wrote:

Ysarex wrote:

My X-T4's behavior is odd regarding autoDR with the camera in manual and auto ISO. I found a lighting condition that causes autoDR to engage DR200 and placed the camera on a tripod. If I hard set the ISO with the camera in manual then as long as I set an ISO above 320 autoDR will activate DR200 no matter how high I set the ISO -- 3 stops above nuked highlights and DR200 kicks in. Likewise stops below well placed highlights and autoDR still sets DR200.

If I set the ISO to auto however and use the EC to force auto ISO to raise ISO autoDR basically disables. Any EC value above 0 and autoDR seems to lock out. At first I thought autoDR wasn't working if the camera was in manual with auto ISO set. That's not it. AutoDR seems not to function in manual exposure with auto ISO set and any positive EC value. Odd.

Totally agree that sounds odd. I'm wondering if that has something to do with DR Priority settings, but you don't use those, or some other setting. Don't blame you at all if you're getting those weird responses.

I don't see anything like that on the X-T2 or X-T20, but I'll look into it a bit more. Those bodies don't offer DR Priority - and I'm not interested in it. As I've said - on my bodies - everything just seems to work well on its own. The AutoDR just allows me to be a bit more aggressive with the EC in difficult situations, such as backlit faces. If I go a bit too far, the Auto DR just triggers as it should. No difference AFAICT regarding native ISO or the higher ISOs.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. The AutoDR function is only triggered by the contrast in the scene as it perceives it, and not by any potential or imminent overexposure/highlight clipping condition (at least not with my cameras). Too bad, it would be a far useful feature if it did.

New here, didn't see the other much more informed posts, ignore this

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

JNR wrote:

Ysarex wrote:

My X-T4's behavior is odd regarding autoDR with the camera in manual and auto ISO. I found a lighting condition that causes autoDR to engage DR200 and placed the camera on a tripod. If I hard set the ISO with the camera in manual then as long as I set an ISO above 320 autoDR will activate DR200 no matter how high I set the ISO -- 3 stops above nuked highlights and DR200 kicks in. Likewise stops below well placed highlights and autoDR still sets DR200.

If I set the ISO to auto however and use the EC to force auto ISO to raise ISO autoDR basically disables. Any EC value above 0 and autoDR seems to lock out. At first I thought autoDR wasn't working if the camera was in manual with auto ISO set. That's not it. AutoDR seems not to function in manual exposure with auto ISO set and any positive EC value. Odd.

Totally agree that sounds odd. I'm wondering if that has something to do with DR Priority settings, but you don't use those, or some other setting. Don't blame you at all if you're getting those weird responses.

I don't see anything like that on the X-T2 or X-T20, but I'll look into it a bit more. Those bodies don't offer DR Priority - and I'm not interested in it. As I've said - on my bodies - everything just seems to work well on its own. The AutoDR just allows me to be a bit more aggressive with the EC in difficult situations, such as backlit faces. If I go a bit too far, the Auto DR just triggers as it should. No difference AFAICT regarding native ISO or the higher ISOs.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. The AutoDR function is only triggered by the contrast in the scene as it perceives it, and not by any potential or imminent overexposure/highlight clipping condition (at least not with my cameras). Too bad, it would be a far useful feature if it did.

Not my experience at all. That would be true if metering was done by full averaging - which I haven't used on a camera built since the 1970s! If that was the case, then you'd be running into poor exposure measurements and blow outs on a routine basis. I'm not exactly sure what is going on under the hood based on multi- or center-weighting (my usual settings), but when any area larger than a few specular highlights are blown, AutoDR consistently triggers for me only as needed - and I have it activated more often than not.

JNR wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

JNR wrote:

Ysarex wrote:

My X-T4's behavior is odd regarding autoDR with the camera in manual and auto ISO. I found a lighting condition that causes autoDR to engage DR200 and placed the camera on a tripod. If I hard set the ISO with the camera in manual then as long as I set an ISO above 320 autoDR will activate DR200 no matter how high I set the ISO -- 3 stops above nuked highlights and DR200 kicks in. Likewise stops below well placed highlights and autoDR still sets DR200.

If I set the ISO to auto however and use the EC to force auto ISO to raise ISO autoDR basically disables. Any EC value above 0 and autoDR seems to lock out. At first I thought autoDR wasn't working if the camera was in manual with auto ISO set. That's not it. AutoDR seems not to function in manual exposure with auto ISO set and any positive EC value. Odd.

Totally agree that sounds odd. I'm wondering if that has something to do with DR Priority settings, but you don't use those, or some other setting. Don't blame you at all if you're getting those weird responses.

I don't see anything like that on the X-T2 or X-T20, but I'll look into it a bit more. Those bodies don't offer DR Priority - and I'm not interested in it. As I've said - on my bodies - everything just seems to work well on its own. The AutoDR just allows me to be a bit more aggressive with the EC in difficult situations, such as backlit faces. If I go a bit too far, the Auto DR just triggers as it should. No difference AFAICT regarding native ISO or the higher ISOs.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. The AutoDR function is only triggered by the contrast in the scene as it perceives it, and not by any potential or imminent overexposure/highlight clipping condition (at least not with my cameras). Too bad, it would be a far useful feature if it did.

Not my experience at all. That would be true if metering was done by full averaging - which I haven't used on a camera built since the 1970s! If that was the case, then you'd be running into poor exposure measurements and blow outs on a routine basis. I'm not exactly sure what is going on under the hood based on multi- or center-weighting (my usual settings), but when any area larger than a few specular highlights are blown, AutoDR consistently triggers for me only as needed - and I have it activated more often than not.

Not me, if I point my camera (with DRAuto mode on) at a scene where DR100 is chosen (even one that is right on the edge), I can dial up the exposure compensation until all highlight detail is completely obliterated and the DRAuto never switches to DR200 (the ISO remains at base ISO).

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

JNR wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

JNR wrote:

Ysarex wrote:

My X-T4's behavior is odd regarding autoDR with the camera in manual and auto ISO. I found a lighting condition that causes autoDR to engage DR200 and placed the camera on a tripod. If I hard set the ISO with the camera in manual then as long as I set an ISO above 320 autoDR will activate DR200 no matter how high I set the ISO -- 3 stops above nuked highlights and DR200 kicks in. Likewise stops below well placed highlights and autoDR still sets DR200.

If I set the ISO to auto however and use the EC to force auto ISO to raise ISO autoDR basically disables. Any EC value above 0 and autoDR seems to lock out. At first I thought autoDR wasn't working if the camera was in manual with auto ISO set. That's not it. AutoDR seems not to function in manual exposure with auto ISO set and any positive EC value. Odd.

Totally agree that sounds odd. I'm wondering if that has something to do with DR Priority settings, but you don't use those, or some other setting. Don't blame you at all if you're getting those weird responses.

I don't see anything like that on the X-T2 or X-T20, but I'll look into it a bit more. Those bodies don't offer DR Priority - and I'm not interested in it. As I've said - on my bodies - everything just seems to work well on its own. The AutoDR just allows me to be a bit more aggressive with the EC in difficult situations, such as backlit faces. If I go a bit too far, the Auto DR just triggers as it should. No difference AFAICT regarding native ISO or the higher ISOs.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. The AutoDR function is only triggered by the contrast in the scene as it perceives it, and not by any potential or imminent overexposure/highlight clipping condition (at least not with my cameras). Too bad, it would be a far useful feature if it did.

Not my experience at all. That would be true if metering was done by full averaging - which I haven't used on a camera built since the 1970s! If that was the case, then you'd be running into poor exposure measurements and blow outs on a routine basis. I'm not exactly sure what is going on under the hood based on multi- or center-weighting (my usual settings), but when any area larger than a few specular highlights are blown, AutoDR consistently triggers for me only as needed - and I have it activated more often than not.

Not me, if I point my camera (with DRAuto mode on) at a scene where DR100 is chosen (even one that is right on the edge), I can dial up the exposure compensation until all highlight detail is completely obliterated and the DRAuto never switches to DR200 (the ISO remains at base ISO).

I can't imagine any reason why the camera would do that, given that it is operating the meter system for AutoDR in the same way as other controls such as EC. Of course, if you put in some crippling controls regarding minimum and maximum shutter speeds, and if all else are manual settings... you're telling the camera not to make the necessary change. I suppose there should be warning signal to tell you that, but then again Fuji tends to assume you know what you want when using the manual settings.

JNR wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

JNR wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

JNR wrote:

Ysarex wrote:

My X-T4's behavior is odd regarding autoDR with the camera in manual and auto ISO. I found a lighting condition that causes autoDR to engage DR200 and placed the camera on a tripod. If I hard set the ISO with the camera in manual then as long as I set an ISO above 320 autoDR will activate DR200 no matter how high I set the ISO -- 3 stops above nuked highlights and DR200 kicks in. Likewise stops below well placed highlights and autoDR still sets DR200.

If I set the ISO to auto however and use the EC to force auto ISO to raise ISO autoDR basically disables. Any EC value above 0 and autoDR seems to lock out. At first I thought autoDR wasn't working if the camera was in manual with auto ISO set. That's not it. AutoDR seems not to function in manual exposure with auto ISO set and any positive EC value. Odd.

Totally agree that sounds odd. I'm wondering if that has something to do with DR Priority settings, but you don't use those, or some other setting. Don't blame you at all if you're getting those weird responses.

I don't see anything like that on the X-T2 or X-T20, but I'll look into it a bit more. Those bodies don't offer DR Priority - and I'm not interested in it. As I've said - on my bodies - everything just seems to work well on its own. The AutoDR just allows me to be a bit more aggressive with the EC in difficult situations, such as backlit faces. If I go a bit too far, the Auto DR just triggers as it should. No difference AFAICT regarding native ISO or the higher ISOs.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. The AutoDR function is only triggered by the contrast in the scene as it perceives it, and not by any potential or imminent overexposure/highlight clipping condition (at least not with my cameras). Too bad, it would be a far useful feature if it did.

Not my experience at all. That would be true if metering was done by full averaging - which I haven't used on a camera built since the 1970s! If that was the case, then you'd be running into poor exposure measurements and blow outs on a routine basis. I'm not exactly sure what is going on under the hood based on multi- or center-weighting (my usual settings), but when any area larger than a few specular highlights are blown, AutoDR consistently triggers for me only as needed - and I have it activated more often than not.

Not me, if I point my camera (with DRAuto mode on) at a scene where DR100 is chosen (even one that is right on the edge), I can dial up the exposure compensation until all highlight detail is completely obliterated and the DRAuto never switches to DR200 (the ISO remains at base ISO).

I can't imagine any reason why the camera would do that, given that it is operating the meter system for AutoDR in the same way as other controls such as EC.

Well, it does.

It’s pretty clear to me that the DRAuto switching is based (as it should be) on the contrast of the scene, not your exposure settings. If the scene has only moderate contrast there’s no really no need for you to alter the exposure with EC and, I guess, it assumes that you won’t.

Of course, if you put in some crippling controls regarding minimum and maximum shutter speeds, and if all else are manual settings... you're telling the camera not to make the necessary change. I suppose there should be warning signal to tell you that, but then again Fuji tends to assume you know what you want when using the manual settings.

Aside from a manually set aperture, my camera is set up with Auto-ISO/SS with no limits that should have anything to do with how the AutoDR works.

Do your cameras behave differently?

Erik