Banding on Z9

Hi,

I've read about the risk of banding showing up in photos, but I seem to remember that this only happens at slow shutter speeds.

I'm currently editing my photos of a live concert by Swedisch guitarist Yngwie Malmsteen and noticed (what I believe to be) banding in some of my photos.

Below you see an unedited RAW photo exported from Lightroom to JPEG at a resolution of 2000 x 3000 pixels. On the photo above and around the head of the guitarist you can clearly see the banding in de red background.

Nikon Z 9 with Z 70-200mm S @ 99mm - ISO1800 - f/2.8 - 1/320s

Is there a way to prevent this from happening?

Or is there a clever way to get rid of this in post-processing?

Or is this just one of the disadvantages of a shutterless camera?

This is probably Pulse Width Modulisation. Go to 9 min +55 sec in this vid for an explanation.

Firmware v2.10 added High-frequency flicker reduction] has been added to the roles that can be assigned to camera controls using Custom Setting f2 [Custom controls (shooting)]. For more information, see the Supplementary Firmware Update Manual.

ajm057 wrote:

Was there a video behind the player ?

Don’t shoot at 1/60th or 1/50th depending on the country

try the new anti Flickr in v2.1

There was mo video screen behind the band. Just a huge array of Marshall amplifiers and speaker cabinets.

When shooting I didn't notice any flickering  so there would've been no way for me to manually dail in flicker reduction.

It happens faster than you can see - they probably had LED lights and the effect is similar to advertising panels — Try this-- you only see the effect in his vid because he recorded the vid. Similarly with a still photo.

areallygrumpyoldsod

Firmware 2.1 added a feature to fix this that you can assign to a function button.

vtpeters wrote:

Or is this just one of the disadvantages of a shutterless camera?

If you mean that cameras with mechanical shutters would NEVER have this then you are wrong. You can get this sort of effect with any camera, even one with mechanical shutter. It is caused by the light and depending on the shutter speed, captured by the camera.

Terrible Photographer wrote:

Firmware 2.1 added a feature to fix this that you can assign to a function button.

It is impossible to "fix" this because it depends on how the lights are flickering, different parts of the sensor are exposed at different light intensity.

Pros and others who shoot under lights know this. AND now so do you.

It occurs with every DSLR/Mirrorless camera and not just a shutterless Z9 issue.

The solution on the Z9 works pretty much the same as a similar solution implemented on the Sony A1. No doubt Canon has a similar solution as well

When shooting indoors or in environments where there are LED lights and ad boards - one takes a few shots and looks at the images on the camera or ipad/iphone using snapbridge. Guys pros do this all the time. Since you have to select/dial-in a very precise shutter speed to eliminate/reduce the effect there are tradeoffs to make.

There is the Flicker Reduction ON/OFF (Reference guide page 518/519 stills and page 585 for vids) and now High-frequency flicker reduction option as well - which was added at the request of pro shooters.

Learn how it works, practice and then use it or don't use it -- that is your choice.

Just don't complain when you have banding on your shots and are using a Z9 v2.10 BUT chose not to follow the guidance or learn to use it correctly.

Good suggestions above.

A short suggestion how to remove it. Add noise. Noise is a photographers best friend.

MCLV wrote:

The point is that you have to notice that something is wrong in order to enable that feature. If the banding is subtle or affecting only a portion of the image you might not detect it until your review the images and then it's too late. Also, the lighting is usually dynamic during show like that and you might get the issue with some of the light but not the others. It also might happen that the flicker-free shutter speed will be different for different lights so you would have to switch between them on the fly.

AND ?

Don't be so negative.

Do or Don't do.
Don't just whine and complain like a Millenial when you won't even try to use the tools that have been provided.

Of course you could just buy an "etch a sketch" or shoot film.

Flicker Detection may be able to show if there are Flicker issues

ajm057 wrote:

Pros and others who shoot under lights know this. AND now so do you.

It occurs with every DSLR/Mirrorless camera and not just a shutterless Z9 issue.

The solution on the Z9 works pretty much the same as a similar solution implemented on the Sony A1. No doubt Canon has a similar solution as well

When shooting indoors or in environments where there are LED lights and ad boards - one takes a few shots and looks at the images on the camera or ipad/iphone using snapbridge. Guys pros do this all the time. Since you have to select/dial-in a very precise shutter speed to eliminate/reduce the effect there are tradeoffs to make.

There is the Flicker Reduction ON/OFF (Reference guide page 518/519 stills and page 585 for vids) and now High-frequency flicker reduction option as well - which was added at the request of pro shooters.

Learn how it works, practice and then use it or don't use it -- that is your choice.

Just don't complain when you have banding on your shots and are using a Z9 v2.10 BUT chose not to follow the guidance or learn to use it correctly.

It's not that I choose not to use the option. I've been shooting shows for the past 10 years with DSLR's, MLIC's with and without physical shutter and have never come across it in my photos.

MCLV wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

vtpeters wrote:

Or is this just one of the disadvantages of a shutterless camera?

If you mean that cameras with mechanical shutters would NEVER have this then you are wrong. You can get this sort of effect with any camera, even one with mechanical shutter. It is caused by the light and depending on the shutter speed, captured by the camera.

The effect depends on the position of shutter plane and also on aperture of shutter plane doesn't coincide with focal plane, see https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65887363

So the results from cameras with ES and MS are different even if they have the same travel time of the shutter.

Yes I know that. Nevertheless it is a fact that even film cameras can give you banding in some lights and under certain conditions.

vtpeters wrote:

ajm057 wrote:

Pros and others who shoot under lights know this. AND now so do you.

It occurs with every DSLR/Mirrorless camera and not just a shutterless Z9 issue.

The solution on the Z9 works pretty much the same as a similar solution implemented on the Sony A1. No doubt Canon has a similar solution as well

When shooting indoors or in environments where there are LED lights and ad boards - one takes a few shots and looks at the images on the camera or ipad/iphone using snapbridge. Guys pros do this all the time. Since you have to select/dial-in a very precise shutter speed to eliminate/reduce the effect there are tradeoffs to make.

There is the Flicker Reduction ON/OFF (Reference guide page 518/519 stills and page 585 for vids) and now High-frequency flicker reduction option as well - which was added at the request of pro shooters.

Learn how it works, practice and then use it or don't use it -- that is your choice.

Just don't complain when you have banding on your shots and are using a Z9 v2.10 BUT chose not to follow the guidance or learn to use it correctly.

It's not that I choose not to use the option. I've been shooting shows for the past 10 years with DSLR's, MLIC's with and without physical shutter and have never come across it in my photos.

Well, you are lucky or just didn't see it. Fluorescent lights and other types of lights which flicker have been around for about a hundred years and has always been a problem for photography and moving pictures. Can be more or less obvious but it is there if the conditions are right for the banding.

olyflyer wrote:

vtpeters wrote:

Or is this just one of the disadvantages of a shutterless camera?

If you mean that cameras with mechanical shutters would NEVER have this then you are wrong. You can get this sort of effect with any camera, even one with mechanical shutter.

You won't see this problem with a camera that uses a leaf shutter.

It is caused by the light and depending on the shutter speed, captured by the camera.

Sorry to hear about your technical problem with Nikon Z9. For my son who is a great fan of this artists, I wanted to ask if this is taken on the concert in Tilburg? Do you know if there are other pictures available?

Kind regards,

Jon