Love the camera - hate the output Locked

BITPhotoSpace wrote:

The X100T is what put me off adopting Fujifilm as a system - I love the camera and still use it but just cant get the colours right - Capture One does a very good demosaicing job to the point of almost no worms and colour artifacts are visible but sadly, the X100T became a forever B&W camera.

Why not send it off for a full spectrum conversion?

After using Canon, I didn't love the color coming out of my new Panasonic gx9 either. Color was ok right out of the camera, but not as pretty as the the canon, especially skin tones and I gradually stopped using it. So I sent it off for a Full Spectrum Camera Conversion. Basically they charge you a lot of money to remove a small square of glass, in my case, from over the sensor. Now, I shoot a variety of infra-red photography, and, if I want "normal" color I use an external filter that duplicates the little piece of glass that was removed. Not all glass is equal, and the set up I have now produces color I love, really pleasing to me. Still experimenting with B&W but liking what I am getting.

Kolari on the east coast, Lifepixel on the west coast.

Does it have the White Balance White option and Pro Negative Standard Film Sim?

The OP's signature says: "The true quality of a photograph can never be appreciated by gearheads."

Carefully consider the OP chose this as his sig line before spending the time to respond to this post.

You've made some strong statements regarding Fuji colors.  Others have asked for examples of your displeasure, yet you refuse to provide them and responded with some obtuse reference to "personal preference".

I think this is a PICNIC error.

Doug MacMillan wrote:

The OP's signature says: "The true quality of a photograph can never be appreciated by gearheads."

Carefully consider the OP chose this as his sig line before spending the time to respond to this post.

You've made some strong statements regarding Fuji colors. Others have asked for examples of your displeasure, yet you refuse to provide them and responded with some obtuse reference to "personal preference".

I think this is a PICNIC error.

Had to look that one up.  Love it, and spot on IMHO.

As I said earlier, without specific examples to back up your concerns, then this thread has little value other than a place for you to air your frustrations.

If you're serious about getting some help or guidance, please provide some examples, preferably with some comments that clearly outline specific issues that you see, or I see no reason to keep this discussion going. It serves no purpose, as none of us here [to my knowledge] are mind readers nor are any of us able to see the specific issues that you claim you're having.  I think people here will genuinely want to help, but will be hard pressed to do so without some real examples to see.

Bottom line: please jump back into the discussion and back up your assertions here with examples post haste, or I see no reason to keep this thread going and it will simply be locked.

Jerry-astro wrote:

As I said earlier, without specific examples to back up your concerns, then this thread has little value other than a place for you to air your frustrations.

If you're serious about getting some help or guidance, please provide some examples, preferably with some comments that clearly outline specific issues that you see, or I see no reason to keep this discussion going. It serves no purpose, as none of us here [to my knowledge] are mind readers nor are any of us able to see the specific issues that you claim you're having. I think people here will genuinely want to help, but will be hard pressed to do so without some real examples to see.

Bottom line: please jump back into the discussion and back up your assertions here with examples post haste, or I see no reason to keep this thread going and it will simply be locked.

Oh, come on time to call off the dogs.  He stated up front and center that this was his personal preference.  My personal preference is the only real story is told in B&W. A few of his images were quite nice and actually told a story. As an art form photography is personal - just like any art.  It seems a bit disingenuous to believe others would be a better judge of the OP's preference than the OP, now wouldn't it.

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Jerry-astro wrote:

As I said earlier, without specific examples to back up your concerns, then this thread has little value other than a place for you to air your frustrations.

If you're serious about getting some help or guidance, please provide some examples, preferably with some comments that clearly outline specific issues that you see, or I see no reason to keep this discussion going. It serves no purpose, as none of us here [to my knowledge] are mind readers nor are any of us able to see the specific issues that you claim you're having. I think people here will genuinely want to help, but will be hard pressed to do so without some real examples to see.

Bottom line: please jump back into the discussion and back up your assertions here with examples post haste, or I see no reason to keep this thread going and it will simply be locked.

Oh, come on time to call off the dogs. He stated up front and center that this was his personal preference. My personal preference is the only real story is told in B&W. A few of his images were quite nice and actually told a story. As an art form photography is personal - just like any art. It seems a bit disingenuous to believe others would be a better judge of the OP's preference than the OP, now wouldn't it.

Sorry Truman, but I don't agree. Anyone is welcome to bring up issues here, but doing so without any examples whatsoever that corroborate those observations makes little sense IMHO. His posts are in B&W yet his complaints pertain to color rendering... hence the images really have no relevance to the specific issue he raised.

No problem whatsoever with his images, but that isn't where my issue is. At least an example or two of that issue might help people better understand his perspective, that's all.  I don't see that as an unreasonable request.

Hi Jerry;

I find this interesting as I have been experimenting with a couple G9 mft for handling and AF issues more than quality issues. I shot an event couple weeks ago, and was having issues with my XT3....froze up on me about 6-8 times in 50 shots....had to pull battery and reinsert each time. Hoping new Firmware June28th release may make a difference in that.

As I had the MFT with me too, the bulk of 2000 shots that evening was shot with G9. Much of it with the 20mm f17 and the superzoom 14-140mm which I am pretty sure is not their sharpest knife in the drawer. I found most of the results OK however for the application. 11x14 max print size likely. Comparing the few shots I did take with the Fuji however, I did notice more sharpness and better DR. Also as I am used to dealing with the Fuji files, I found them easier to PP than the Pani files, though that is probably mainly a learning curve thing.

Today I did 8 foot distance shots with all the lenses from both systems similar FL for each format all with speedlight flash (Godox) so same flash different controllers. My perception was that the higher res/larger sensor gave a clear advantage to the Fuji output with all the lenses...so likely more a sensor limitation as opposed to lens. Almost all the Fuji lenses were very good, and equal at rendering fine type output at that distance. The Panasonic much less so.

Then I reviewed more of the photos from the event, and found really NO objections overall to the output from the MFT....so perception as opposed to pixel peeping, real life vs. technical comparison, and often the color out of camera was more pleasing on the Pani than the Fuji...all my lenses are calibrated in each body using Passport system, so most variables should be cancelled out re color. Most processing PS-CC though used C1 also on some.....

Detail however was a clear win to Fuji with every lens, Noise likewise at same ISO Fuji by about a stop. Ergo however for the G9 is phenomenal, best I have ever handled. Intuitive controls too. After 3+ years with the XT, I am almost more at ease with the Pani after one month.

Main reason I tried this experiment was animal tracking, and increased DOF of smaller sensor. Still very undecided which way I am going to end up going though. If I can get better acquisition of animals or animal eye on the Fuji it would be a simple decision. The IBIS in the Pani is addictive too....much more reliable than the H1, and on nonmoving subjects levels the playing field allowing slower shutter speeds and iso. The pixel shift and 6K photo mode both are interesting strengths of the MFT too. We do live in interesting times photographically.

Richard Katris wrote:

Hi Jerry;

I find this interesting as I have been experimenting with a couple G9 mft for handling and AF issues more than quality issues. I shot an event couple weeks ago, and was having issues with my XT3....froze up on me about 6-8 times in 50 shots....had to pull battery and reinsert each time. Hoping new Firmware June28th release may make a difference in that.

As I had the MFT with me too, the bulk of 2000 shots that evening was shot with G9. Much of it with the 20mm f17 and the superzoom 14-140mm which I am pretty sure is not their sharpest knife in the drawer. I found most of the results OK however for the application. 11x14 max print size likely. Comparing the few shots I did take with the Fuji however, I did notice more sharpness and better DR. Also as I am used to dealing with the Fuji files, I found them easier to PP than the Pani files, though that is probably mainly a learning curve thing.

Today I did 8 foot distance shots with all the lenses from both systems similar FL for each format all with speedlight flash (Godox) so same flash different controllers. My perception was that the higher res/larger sensor gave a clear advantage to the Fuji output with all the lenses...so likely more a sensor limitation as opposed to lens. Almost all the Fuji lenses were very good, and equal at rendering fine type output at that distance. The Panasonic much less so.

Then I reviewed more of the photos from the event, and found really NO objections overall to the output from the MFT....so perception as opposed to pixel peeping, real life vs. technical comparison, and often the color out of camera was more pleasing on the Pani than the Fuji...all my lenses are calibrated in each body using Passport system, so most variables should be cancelled out re color. Most processing PS-CC though used C1 also on some.....

Detail however was a clear win to Fuji with every lens, Noise likewise at same ISO Fuji by about a stop. Ergo however for the G9 is phenomenal, best I have ever handled. Intuitive controls too. After 3+ years with the XT, I am almost more at ease with the Pani after one month.

Main reason I tried this experiment was animal tracking, and increased DOF of smaller sensor. Still very undecided which way I am going to end up going though. If I can get better acquisition of animals or animal eye on the Fuji it would be a simple decision. The IBIS in the Pani is addictive too....much more reliable than the H1, and on nonmoving subjects levels the playing field allowing slower shutter speeds and iso. The pixel shift and 6K photo mode both are interesting strengths of the MFT too. We do live in interesting times photographically.

That’s a really interesting perspective and I’m very glad you weighed into the discussion. FWIW, I’m quite familiar with your work and have admired it for years (and in fact have a couple of your photographs from years back).  Many years ago we were regular attendees to many of the shows that you participated in.  I’ll be interested to see which direction you decide to go.

Do you shoot Raw? It is odd, in this day and age, that people are not able to adjust colour to their taste. One of the great benefits of digital was actually the impact in colour and the degree of possible adjustments.

So what don't you like?

BITPhotoSpace wrote:

The X100T is what put me off adopting Fujifilm as a system - I love the camera and still use it but just cant get the colours right - Capture One does a very good demosaicing job to the point of almost no worms and colour artifacts are visible but sadly, the X100T became a forever B&W camera.

Perhaps, I can offer a view if the issue is about being unable to 'get the colours right.'

First, I can see why you like the B&W images, which are nice. Second, if you are seeking a discussion on views on Fuji colour and perhaps how colour images could be tweaked to suit your taste, then it might help us if you could offer a couple of examples of the colour images as you get out of the camera, including the camera settings, and those same images after post production to show a colour style that is to your taste. If they are processed it would help to know what steps were taken and how long it took to process each image.

I say this, because on of the draws for me to Fuji was the colours I got out of the camera. I used to use Nikon DX (D70, D80, D5100, D300s) and found that I had to process most images I wanted to keep/show, yet after setting up the Fuji (XT10, XT3 and now XT4/XE4) JPEGs to taste I seldom have to process any keepers. Although, I do some light processing in C1/22 on those I want to show.

So, if the colour issue is a problem, some examples might help to see what the issue is. Hope that helps.

barbara j wrote:

Why not send it off for a full spectrum conversion?

I'd rather remove the CFA but not sure this will give me an advantage over software conversion -

Also not 100% sure you can actually demosaic the signal pain free.

You may want to lock the thread - by all means.

Perhaps I shouldve posted on the Open Talk forum - I just didnt realise that this is a tec exchange forum

I have a backup signature that says "imagination is more important than knowledge" and posting an opinion does not imply complaining, lacking knowledge or a seedy agenda.

Of all systems I've owned, incl foveon, Fuji had been the most challenging to tweak the colour output to my liking and I've tried it all from LUTs in rawtherappe through WB calibration to WB shifts etc. I am not interested in faux film-like recipes etc.

My x100T is an excellent B&W kit for story telling and I intend to keep it that way.

had I "liked" the colour/ JPEG output (incl. other fujifilm bodies besides the original x100) by any means I would've recently fully overhauled to Fujifilm. In fact I had a hard time back in May before pulling the trigger going MFT instead of Fujifilm (was thinking either XT4 or XPro3 with the full 1.4/1.2 prime lens set).

Perhaps I am wrong but I guess I am the only one thinking Fujifilm would have a lot more potential rethinking their sensor strategy.

I don't have a problem with your opinion as such. What made this post less valuable to me was the absence of some examples to take us along your journey. We simply don't know what you've tried or encountered. It could very well be that I would agree with your conclusions.

BITPhotoSpace wrote:

You may want to lock the thread - by all means.

Perhaps I shouldve posted on the Open Talk forum - I just didnt realise that this is a tec exchange forum

I have a backup signature that says "imagination is more important than knowledge" and posting an opinion does not imply complaining, lacking knowledge or a seedy agenda.

Of all systems I've owned, incl foveon, Fuji had been the most challenging to tweak the colour output to my liking and I've tried it all from LUTs in rawtherappe through WB calibration to WB shifts etc. I am not interested in faux film-like recipes etc.

My x100T is an excellent B&W kit for story telling and I intend to keep it that way.

had I "liked" the colour/ JPEG output (incl. other fujifilm bodies besides the original x100) by any means I would've recently fully overhauled to Fujifilm. In fact I had a hard time back in May before pulling the trigger going MFT instead of Fujifilm (was thinking either XT4 or XPro3 with the full 1.4/1.2 prime lens set).

Perhaps I am wrong but I guess I am the only one thinking Fujifilm would have a lot more potential rethinking their sensor strategy.

I normally only lock threads when the discussion turns toxic or if there are other issues that start to push the discussion past DPR forum posting rules. That's not really the case here. However, I will follow your recommendation because, frankly, it's patently clear that you are completely unwilling to post examples of the very issue that you are raising in this thread. How you might expect to get advice or recommendations when you seem unwilling to even offer an example or two to support your issue is beyond me.

There are many people here with years of expertise in Fujifilm gear, color science, and other aspects of photography with Fujifilm cameras. But without some real examples for people to look at, there's no point in continuing the discussion since you apparently have no interest in offering anything that supports your story here. Further debate on this topic without something to support your issue is a waste of time.

Hence, I will lock the thread, as you suggest. If, at some point in time, you wish to reopen the topic and include some examples that support your issue, then I'm sure there are plenty of very experienced photographers here who would love to help and who have extensive experience with Fujifilm gear and color science.