A warning about the peculiar ergonomics of the X-H2S

I had mine for a few hours and went over the manual several times.

The PASM dial is already a big departure from Fuji's original way of operating, but I figured I could live with it.

However when I saw they put the C1-7 banks on the dial, I worried.

Rightly so. It's normally fairly standard to be able the change current visual style independently of the camera operation mode. And vice versa.

On my X-T4, I very often switch rapidly between 2-3 strong visual styles, tosee what fits the shot.

Just because I want to shoot black and white, that doesn't mean I want to change other operational parameters (AF mode, Drive mode, P,A,S,M)

But it is unfortunately the case with the X-H2S. The C presets encompass just about anything. So changing image style also means changing camera operation mode. To make things worse, there is no button assignable to "Shooting Mode", so it's a menu dive.

Example:

I composed a shot in my Kodachrome preset, in M. I shoot in A most of the time, so my banks will default to this most likely. Now if I want to call my grainy black and white just to see how it would look, it would change me to A.

I can't think of a quick elegant way to solve this. A more elaborate solution could be to keep the C1-C7 on the dial strictly about operation mode. Because it is useful to have the ability, for example, to store a S, AF-C, 40fps, or then maybe a long exposure "mode" etc... but I don't want those associated with a visual style. The visual styles would be stored on different preset bank, callable by a button toggle.

That would be great! but the current system is poorly thought out....(at least for photographers)

RobertMachin wrote:

I had mine for a few hours and went over the manual several times.

The PASM dial is already a big departure from Fuji's original way of operating, but I figured I could live with it.

However when I saw they put the C1-7 banks on the dial, I worried.

Rightly so. It's normally fairly standard to be able the change current visual style independently of the camera operation mode. And vice versa.

On my X-T4, I very often switch rapidly between 2-3 strong visual styles, tosee what fits the shot.

Just because I want to shoot black and white, that doesn't mean I want to change other operational parameters (AF mode, Drive mode, P,A,S,M)

But it is unfortunately the case with the X-H2S. The C presets encompass just about anything. So changing image style also means changing camera operation mode. To make things worse, there is no button assignable to "Shooting Mode", so it's a menu dive.

Example:

I composed a shot in my Kodachrome preset, in M. I shoot in A most of the time, so my banks will default to this most likely. Now if I want to call my grainy black and white just to see how it would look, it would change me to A.

I can't think of a quick elegant way to solve this. A more elaborate solution could be to keep the C1-C7 on the dial strictly about operation mode. Because it is useful to have the ability, for example, to store a S, AF-C, 40fps, or then maybe a long exposure "mode" etc... but I don't want those associated with a visual style. The visual styles would be stored on different preset bank, callable by a button toggle.

That would be great! but the current system is poorly thought out....(at least for photographers)

I'm not sure this should be a big surprise - this is the same way that other FujiFilm cameras work with custom settings on the PASM dial.

Greybeard2017 wrote:

RobertMachin wrote:

I had mine for a few hours and went over the manual several times.

The PASM dial is already a big departure from Fuji's original way of operating, but I figured I could live with it.

However when I saw they put the C1-7 banks on the dial, I worried.

Rightly so. It's normally fairly standard to be able the change current visual style independently of the camera operation mode. And vice versa.

On my X-T4, I very often switch rapidly between 2-3 strong visual styles, tosee what fits the shot.

Just because I want to shoot black and white, that doesn't mean I want to change other operational parameters (AF mode, Drive mode, P,A,S,M)

But it is unfortunately the case with the X-H2S. The C presets encompass just about anything. So changing image style also means changing camera operation mode. To make things worse, there is no button assignable to "Shooting Mode", so it's a menu dive.

Example:

I composed a shot in my Kodachrome preset, in M. I shoot in A most of the time, so my banks will default to this most likely. Now if I want to call my grainy black and white just to see how it would look, it would change me to A.

I can't think of a quick elegant way to solve this. A more elaborate solution could be to keep the C1-C7 on the dial strictly about operation mode. Because it is useful to have the ability, for example, to store a S, AF-C, 40fps, or then maybe a long exposure "mode" etc... but I don't want those associated with a visual style. The visual styles would be stored on different preset bank, callable by a button toggle.

That would be great! but the current system is poorly thought out....(at least for photographers)

I'm not sure this should be a big surprise - this is the same way that other FujiFilm cameras work with custom settings on the PASM dial.

I think you're right. I only used X-Pro/ X-T.

Still, are people ok with this way of dealing with presets?

i don't know about the H2.  However, I can tell you how my Leica Q2 handles it.  You set the camera up the way you want.  Then you save that preset - which includes everything, AF type, focus mode, shooting mode, capture mode, i.e., Raw, jpeg or raw plus jpeg, any jpeg settings which would include film sims on Fuji, auto ISO settings, IBIS settings, - every thing down to the delay after pressing the shutter button to the activation of the shutter.  So you save them and at least with the Leica you name them.  You can then save the settings to the card and later to your PC.

Then when you call one up, you can bring up the menu and make a single change.  Say you want to add a shutter delay, then you can do it from the quick menu.  Then the camera will operate in that mode which is not the same as your custom mode but the custom mode as the starting point with the changes you have made.

This is how the Q2 and the SL2 for that matter work.  However, they custom modes are selected on the display (or viewfinder) not from a dial.  However, I can see with a fixed dial how confusion could arise since if you make a change - how the camera is set will not matched the programmed settings on the dial.  I would hope in this case there is an indicator to tell one that.

I looked at the H2S manual and there seem to be a lot of buttons that I would have deactivated as there are too many too close together than could be accidentally activated.

Truman Prevatt wrote:

I looked at the H2S manual and there seem to be a lot of buttons that I would have deactivated as there are too many too close together than could be accidentally activated.

I'm not sure accidental activation would be a problem - the function buttons are well spaced - the problem is more remembering what you have set up - especially if you have changed the default settings.

As someone else said earlier it would have been useful to see a description on screen for those 7 custom setting banks.

They could also have named the two card slots - rather than slot 1 and slot 2.

RobertMachin wrote:

[ ... ]

Just because I want to shoot black and white, that doesn't mean I want to change other operational parameters (AF mode, Drive mode, P,A,S,M)

But it is unfortunately the case with the X-H2S. The C presets encompass just about anything. So changing image style also means changing camera operation mode. To make things worse, there is no button assignable to "Shooting Mode", so it's a menu dive.

Example:

I composed a shot in my Kodachrome preset, in M. I shoot in A most of the time, so my banks will default to this most likely. Now if I want to call my grainy black and white just to see how it would look, it would change me to A.

[ ... ]

Eh, this is the very thing we discussed on this forum (see thread here[1]) when X-S10 appeared (almost two years ago), being Fuji`s first PSAM implementation in X-Trans lineup.

Here`s excerpt from one of my replies there:

boogisha wrote[2]:

[ ... ]

And thinking about it more, might be previously known "film simulation recipe" JPEG custom settings (C1 to C7) should really be decoupled from "shooting modes" custom settings we have here (C1 to C4), so photographers are both not forced to choose one or the other for storing in now even more limited number of custom settings banks/slots, but being able to mix them as they find appropriate as well... but I guess that is a thought for the future

Well, I guess the "future" hoped for is just not there yet...

Greybeard2017 wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

I looked at the H2S manual and there seem to be a lot of buttons that I would have deactivated as there are too many too close together than could be accidentally activated.

I'm not sure accidental activation would be a problem - the function buttons are well spaced - the problem is more remembering what you have set up - especially if you have changed the default settings.

I'm talking about the three or four up near the shutter.  When I got the Pro2 I kept accidentally hitting the video button.  I ended up deactivating the video button.  Fine since I don't do video.  But I think Fuji's in general have way too many buttons and when on is busy with the eye to the view finder - the rest of the operation is in brail.  

As someone else said earlier it would have been useful to see a description on screen for those 7 custom setting banks.

Leica has handled it well with their review display that comes up when you press menu.  They show the active display.  If it is one of your custom displays the icon shows which one.  If it is the default (there is a default setting which can be written over) and one can always chose. If it is neither the default nor one of the saved setting - the setting shows that and the top level settings are shown above.  It works quite well and quick to see what the settings are.

The traditional Fuji dials and knobs really don't allow full customization. They will lie to you when you look at them if the manual setting can be overridden by S/W presets.    The Q menu - is primarily only for Jpeg.  The problem with a hard coded PSAM dial is it also limits how one uses quickly modifies the settings.  The dial is great if someone has a fixed number of presets of the camera that they use all the time.  That it is fixed on a dial - opens the UI up to the same constraints of the traditional UI.  In reality why is there a need for a Q menu if you have presets?

From what I have seen from the H2S manual is the UI will work wonderful for people that have a fixed number of presets for most of their work and they can switch between them quickly.  But I have to tell you I like the Leica UI is much better to use than what I am seeing from the Fuji PSAM. But that is just for me.   Bottom line - no UI is perfect and it will not be totally comparable to the way everyone wants to work.  Fuji UI - a work in progress.

boogisha wrote:

RobertMachin wrote:

[ ... ]

Just because I want to shoot black and white, that doesn't mean I want to change other operational parameters (AF mode, Drive mode, P,A,S,M)

But it is unfortunately the case with the X-H2S. The C presets encompass just about anything. So changing image style also means changing camera operation mode. To make things worse, there is no button assignable to "Shooting Mode", so it's a menu dive.

Example:

I composed a shot in my Kodachrome preset, in M. I shoot in A most of the time, so my banks will default to this most likely. Now if I want to call my grainy black and white just to see how it would look, it would change me to A.

[ ... ]

Eh, this is the very thing we discussed on this forum (see thread here[1]) when X-S10 appeared (almost two years ago), being Fuji`s first PSAM implementation in X-Trans lineup.

Here`s excerpt from one of my replies there:

boogisha wrote[2]:

[ ... ]

And thinking about it more, might be previously known "film simulation recipe" JPEG custom settings (C1 to C7) should really be decoupled from "shooting modes" custom settings we have here (C1 to C4), so photographers are both not forced to choose one or the other for storing in now even more limited number of custom settings banks/slots, but being able to mix them as they find appropriate as well... but I guess that is a thought for the future

Well, I guess the "future" hoped for is just not there yet...

I don’t shoot shoot jpegs or mess with recipe presets at all so this limitation isn’t especially problematic for me, but I find it incredible how little thinking Fuji put into making these alternate-style cameras more longtime Fuji user friendly. It’s almost like they went out of their way to intentionally putting roadblocks in the way of configuring and using these cameras in any way that would be familiar and intuitive to “classic” Fuji shooters. You can’t even have exposure compensation on the front dial (like all the X-T cameras). This looks like a very nice camera in lots of ways and I could probably make it “work” for me, but it would require a significant (and undesirable) change in shooting configuration and a need to contend with undoing years of muscle memory - especially problematic when you want to use the new cameras with the old ones. I really hope they don’t screw up the X-T5 (and restore the X-T2/3 tilt screen).

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

I don’t shoot shoot jpegs or mess with recipe presets at all so this limitation isn’t especially problematic for me, but I find it incredible how little thinking Fuji put into making these alternate-style cameras more longtime Fuji user friendly. It’s almost like they went out of their way to intentionally putting roadblocks in the way of configuring and using these cameras in any way that would be familiar and intuitive to “classic” Fuji shooters. You can’t even have exposure compensation on the front dial (like all the X-T cameras).

what makes you think this? Most things can be customised.

Greybeard2017 wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

I don’t shoot shoot jpegs or mess with recipe presets at all so this limitation isn’t especially problematic for me, but I find it incredible how little thinking Fuji put into making these alternate-style cameras more longtime Fuji user friendly. It’s almost like they went out of their way to intentionally putting roadblocks in the way of configuring and using these cameras in any way that would be familiar and intuitive to “classic” Fuji shooters. You can’t even have exposure compensation on the front dial (like all the X-T cameras).

what makes you think this? Most things can be customised.

I looked at the manual. Unless I missed something, Exposure Compensation looks to be only assignable to the rear dial.

Hi Robert,

Unless I'm mistaken, the X-H2S is aimed at action photography and videography.  For action it is common to avoid the type of changes that your art entails.  Possibly this camera is not a good match for you or possibly this camera is perfect for some things you do and your X-T4 the better choice for others.

Morris

Personally, as an analog controls devotee, I’d give up on the XS and XH lines and trust Fujifilm to keep the faith on the original lines. They’re just trying to survive and compete in the DSLR space (which isn’t their strong suit, but they seem to think it’s important).

So I mostly ignore these cameras and press on. But I hope they satisfy the hybrid shooter itch, and suck all the video-flippy-screen-must-haves over to the dark side, leaving Fujifilm to concentrate at least somewhat on their X stills roots. Here’s hoping.

Morris0 wrote:

Hi Robert,

Unless I'm mistaken, the X-H2S is aimed at action photography and videography. For action it is common to avoid the type of changes that your art entails. Possibly this camera is not a good match for you or possibly this camera is perfect for some things you do and your X-T4 the better choice for others.

Morris

Oh I would have preferred an X-T5 with the same sensor and AF system for sure.

But this is the flagship! At that price, with all the hardware that is packed into this camera, honestly all the ingredients are there for this camera to fit my needs.

It's just a software change away....  I'm arguing the camera should/could be more configurable to suit all/most possible usage type.  I cant see a downside of this for such a pro-oriented camera.

boogisha wrote:

RobertMachin wrote:

[ ... ]

Just because I want to shoot black and white, that doesn't mean I want to change other operational parameters (AF mode, Drive mode, P,A,S,M)

But it is unfortunately the case with the X-H2S. The C presets encompass just about anything. So changing image style also means changing camera operation mode. To make things worse, there is no button assignable to "Shooting Mode", so it's a menu dive.

Example:

I composed a shot in my Kodachrome preset, in M. I shoot in A most of the time, so my banks will default to this most likely. Now if I want to call my grainy black and white just to see how it would look, it would change me to A.

[ ... ]

Eh, this is the very thing we discussed on this forum (see thread here[1]) when X-S10 appeared (almost two years ago), being Fuji`s first PSAM implementation in X-Trans lineup.

Here`s excerpt from one of my replies there:

boogisha wrote[2]:

[ ... ]

And thinking about it more, might be previously known "film simulation recipe" JPEG custom settings (C1 to C7) should really be decoupled from "shooting modes" custom settings we have here (C1 to C4), so photographers are both not forced to choose one or the other for storing in now even more limited number of custom settings banks/slots, but being able to mix them as they find appropriate as well... but I guess that is a thought for the future

Well, I guess the "future" hoped for is just not there yet...

I had not realized the x-s10 was cramped in the same way. Glad to hear I'm not alone find this bizarre.

RobertMachin wrote:

Morris0 wrote:

Hi Robert,

Unless I'm mistaken, the X-H2S is aimed at action photography and videography. For action it is common to avoid the type of changes that your art entails. Possibly this camera is not a good match for you or possibly this camera is perfect for some things you do and your X-T4 the better choice for others.

Morris

Oh I would have preferred an X-T5 with the same sensor and AF system for sure.

But this is the flagship! At that price, with all the hardware that is packed into this camera, honestly all the ingredients are there for this camera to fit my needs.

It's just a software change away.... I'm arguing the camera should/could be more configurable to suit all/most possible usage type. I cant see a downside of this for such a pro-oriented camera.

We will have to wait and see what comes down from the X-H2S in the way of firmware and also see what the X-T5 is.

Fuji is chasing it's tail and it's named Sony!

Morris

Morris0 wrote:

Hi Robert,

Unless I'm mistaken, the X-H2S is aimed at action photography and videography. For action it is common to avoid the type of changes that your art entails. Possibly this camera is not a good match for you or possibly this camera is perfect for some things you do and your X-T4 the better choice for others.

Morris

Indeed, I left Fuji for the X-T line won't 'allow' me to shoot wildlife/birds in a seamless way (slowish AFC also was the other main reason)

Birds (or fast wildlife) won't wait for you to change parameters mid flight , you only have a split second to switch to  the proper settings

For example, BIF requires higher speed, higher FPS, evaluative metering, wide area focusing while perching birds, spot metering, spot focusing, slower FPS, slower speed ... You don't have time to do all of those changes in a split second with the XT line

The only way is to either switch to a different Custom mode of press a button to recall a saved mode (a la Sony/Nikon) ; once the button is released , you're back to the original setting

(I think Fuji has a recall custom C1 using a button on the X-H2S if I'm not mistaken and cheers for that)

In the days of landscapes/streets/portraits shootings I love the XT line for its simplicity in ergo but I cannot live with it today with my mainly birding genre (How many bird shooters out there you see using Fuji? there's a reason)

This is to say that ergonomics is a personal thing which is related to your shooting style/genre

(I 'll soon ditch Sony for its tiny body gave me cramps on long shoots, also an ergo nightmare issue)

Glad Fuji has this PASM dial otherwise they won't see me as a return customer

Both camps XT / XH should be happy now since we all have a choice

Best is for Fuji to figure out how to please both camps by designing a single body with dials and C modes (it can be done and has been discussed before, too lazy to search)

dv312 wrote:

Indeed, I left Fuji for the X-T line won't 'allow' me to shoot wildlife/birds in a seamless way (slowish AFC also was the other main reason)

Birds (or fast wildlife) won't wait for you to change parameters mid flight , you only have a split second to switch to the proper settings

Too funny.  You're responding to the wrong person if you are going to describe how the X-T line doesn't meet your needs for photographing birds.

RobertMachin wrote:

I had mine for a few hours and went over the manual several times.

The PASM dial is already a big departure from Fuji's original way of operating, but I figured I could live with it.

However when I saw they put the C1-7 banks on the dial, I worried.

Rightly so. It's normally fairly standard to be able the change current visual style independently of the camera operation mode. And vice versa.

On my X-T4, I very often switch rapidly between 2-3 strong visual styles, tosee what fits the shot.

Just because I want to shoot black and white, that doesn't mean I want to change other operational parameters (AF mode, Drive mode, P,A,S,M)

But it is unfortunately the case with the X-H2S. The C presets encompass just about anything. So changing image style also means changing camera operation mode. To make things worse, there is no button assignable to "Shooting Mode", so it's a menu dive.

Example:

I composed a shot in my Kodachrome preset, in M. I shoot in A most of the time, so my banks will default to this most likely. Now if I want to call my grainy black and white just to see how it would look, it would change me to A.

I can't think of a quick elegant way to solve this. A more elaborate solution could be to keep the C1-C7 on the dial strictly about operation mode. Because it is useful to have the ability, for example, to store a S, AF-C, 40fps, or then maybe a long exposure "mode" etc... but I don't want those associated with a visual style. The visual styles would be stored on different preset bank, callable by a button toggle.

That would be great! but the current system is poorly thought out....(at least for photographers)

Absolute non issue as everyone should shoot RAW anyway.

Also, even with the PASM layout, you can still independently change film sims the traditional way before each photo (Dpad left is the default shortcut) and assign anything else you might miss as shortcuts.

And on Fuji cameras there's never a "menu dive" necessary either - that's what "MY MENU" is for.

I have a GFX100S and I had zero issues after many years with X-series cameras, if anything, PASM is much better functionally although I still prefer the dials of my X-T4.

Morris0 wrote:

RobertMachin wrote:

Morris0 wrote:

Hi Robert,

Unless I'm mistaken, the X-H2S is aimed at action photography and videography. For action it is common to avoid the type of changes that your art entails. Possibly this camera is not a good match for you or possibly this camera is perfect for some things you do and your X-T4 the better choice for others.

Morris

Oh I would have preferred an X-T5 with the same sensor and AF system for sure.

But this is the flagship! At that price, with all the hardware that is packed into this camera, honestly all the ingredients are there for this camera to fit my needs.

It's just a software change away.... I'm arguing the camera should/could be more configurable to suit all/most possible usage type. I cant see a downside of this for such a pro-oriented camera.

We will have to wait and see what comes down from the X-H2S in the way of firmware and also see what the X-T5 is.

Fuji is chasing it's tail and it's named Sony!

Morris

So far Fuji claims X-T5 won' t get stacked sensor, so it looks we don't get other fast action camera with classic or different cintrol layout.

Personally I don't like GFX design and for me X-H2s body design is a disaster:

• No clickable dials anymore
• Big top LCD screen completely useless for me, I would rather have configurable unmarked dial here.
• FAS screen with no tilt option like in S1H
• Limited button/dial customization

I know X-T3 is not the optimal design for action, but I customized it in a way that is apparently not available in X-H2s. A pity, considering its price. I understand this is a hybrid body - a compromise. But one of the best things in X-T3 for me was customization. I expected that removing some physical controls will be compensated with more flexibility in assigning functions to dials and buttons.

I have read manual and I'm rather dissapointed. Camera is available is my local store, so I will probably try to rent it for a day (if posdible) and see how it works.

improved IBIS + much better AF + geat evf + better DR + reinforced body are very tempting, PSAM + C1-7 could be even better for action, but lack of clickable and fully configurable dials seems to be a joke in $2.5k body - especially for X-T3 user. No hope for other body design

soon means we must love H2s or wait at least another 9-12 months for the next body/competition (Nikon please give us Z9 mini 😂 for $2.5k).

Cheers.

Artur