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GH6: your impressions/comparisons, realworld changes

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
James Stirling
James Stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 9,282
Re: GH6: your impressions/comparisons, realworld changes

SOTOK wrote:

James Stirling wrote:

Gnine wrote:

Strangefinder wrote:

What are your impressions of the various new IQ techniques and tech? (DR, 100mpx etc)

How does it compare with the X-H2S, S5, OM1 and predecessors?

Specific realworld differences, synergies & general observations from hobbyists, videographers, professionals who have used the GH6. Thanks!

It seems to nearly be despised here, you'll have more luck here I think. People that actually own and use them seem rather impressed

https://www.mu-43.com/threads/gh6-as-a-photography-stills-tool.114471/

I think a lot of it is down to the GH6 being perceived as mainly a video orientated device. I notice that most threads with a video aspect involved don't get much feedback.

In another thread I was involved in recently I happened to be looking at B&H bestseller lists and the GH6 was the highest placed m43 camera { they include pre-ordered stuff so even if supply is poor OM-1/ Z9 etc the numbers are still recorded. Not a universal sales data point obviously but it is the largest camera store in the world with a huge online presence

Mirrorless Cameras | B&H Photo (bhphotovideo.com)

I believe you are seeing the effect of the kit bundle. In m43, the GH6 is #1 and #21 (kit). The OM-1 is #2 and #4 (kit) respectively. They are all being outsold by the XH2S

Kit options I suspect make up a smaller number of sales of higher end cameras as most buying them are in the system and will already have lenses. The GH6 body only is the highest placed m43 camera in the overall top selling mirrorless list at 21st spot , 17 of the top 21 are FF.
The Fuji xh2s has only been announced in the last week a lot of newly announced cameras pop in high on the list due to a rush of -pre-orders in the first couple of weeks . After the couple of weeks this will typically slow down and the camera will move down the list to a more normal position for that model. As I say it is only a broad stroke but suggests that bird shooting OM-1 users in this forum may not be an accurate reflection of the wider market.

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novalaker
novalaker Regular Member • Posts: 308
Re: GH6: your impressions/comparisons, realworld changes
1

I have yet to use the GH6, but as a G9 user it's not as appealing to me now with some of the other options. Personally, I shoot more photos than videos, but I do more video work professionally. So the next camera body I own I want to be a better hybrid than what the GH6 is. I have no doubt I could live with the GH6 as a stills camera, but when I look at options like the Fuji X-H2S or even the OM-1, I have a hard time justifying it. Granted, to move to Fuji I'd have to unload my whole kit and start over, but I've been eyeing Fuji for a while now and this new camera has really peaked my interest. But I am going to wait until I'm in a position where I really need to upgrade (or can afford it), for now my G9 does just fine.

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Roger Monroe Regular Member • Posts: 401
Well...
5

User context:

Professional DP, videographer, photographer (less so these days), former TV news photojournalist. Clients include healthcare, corporate, industrial, some event work. B-roll, sit down interviews, green screen etc.

I’ve owned many Panasonic cameras from the broadcast/ pro division. Currently I still use the DVX200. Lumix-wise, I’ve owned the GX1, GH2,3,4,5 and now the GH6. In additional to the GH6, I still use the GH5 professionally, using the XLR adapter and a 42.5 1.2 for interviews. I can have a two camera setup, or backup if needed. I have been using a Ninja V for many interviews.

I primarily shoot in 10 bit, V-Log and HLG with the GH6. I shoot primarily at 29.97 fps, with some 24.98P sprinkled in. At some point I’ll try some of the other profiles.

Fwiw, I used Nikons from the early 80’s through the D300. I’m also very partial to FujiFilm, having owned the X100T, S2 and S3 in addition to a medium format film cam back in the day. Love me some Fuji.

In addition to motion work, I have used both the GH4 and GH5 for pro photo shoots in the past.

Video:

So far I’ve used the GH6 for several healthcare related b-roll / doc-type shoots, including a surgery. I shot the surgery in Boost DR, V-LOG, @ iso 2000 and 4000. Surgery suites can be quite dark and yet have very high contrast with the operating table lighting. I shot this all handheld, tripods are typically a no-no in a surgery suite. I used the 10-25 1.7. The IS is quite nice, definitely improved over the GH5. DR boost worked very well for this situation, I was able to maintain highlights while getting a good exposure for the (mids and lows) rest of the room. In this scenario the required high iso of 2000 worked like a charm. I feel very comfortable using iso 4000 with this camera for appropriate subject matter. It’s pretty darn clean all things considering. Whatever noise issues there may or may not be, Neat video will fix.

Boost DR- It has it’s place and it’s effective at what it does. I’ll definitely use it where appropriate, exterior architecture, landscape work. The downside is the massive amount of ND required to get the iris opened up in the larger apertures with my 10-25 (1.7-2.0) . I have a 10 stop fixed ND and I plan to get a 8 stop in addition to other fixed ND’s currently owned. I’m in the desert southwest of the USA, there is an excess of day light ;-).

AF for video… I’ve been doing this since the late 80’s- what’s auto focus? ( )I vastly prefer rolling my own focus, I haven’t used AF except for using my GH4 on a gimbal a few years back. Gimbals are a great application for AF. IMO there are three reasons why the video AF thing is such a fixation for the masses: 1) Lack of experience manually focusing (and possible laziness), 2) typical fly by wire photo lenses are hard to manually focus, and 3), AF makes shooting motion footage less painful within the DSLR form factor. The hybrid form factor is a huge bag of hurt for shooting video/ motion. It’s brutal compared to using a shoulder mount or camcorder configuration. Ergonomically, manually focusing or otherwise operating the camera smoothly or quickly is not the hybrids strong suit- ouch. I can appreciate how “Auto” could make this a less painful experience. For me, I’m content with using the quick focus feature to get initial focus and then go manual from there.

All that’s to say that I’ve experimented in my office with the GH6 AF, and it’s a significant improvement over previous Lumix video AF implementations. I haven’t used it on a job, but I’ll experiment with it at some point. I would never use it for an interview, just b-roll or on a gimbal. Although not to the level of some of the competition, Panasonic has definitely upped their game in the video AF realm. The photo AF already rocks for most uses IMO.

IQ, video and stills:

Video-wise, oh the codecs… ProRes, enough said. The color science is significantly improved, Skin tones are much improved, as is tonality. Of course, the DR boost mode helps with DR. Noise levels are significantly down from the GH5 as well. I would go higher in a pinch, but I feel very comfortable going up to iso 4k for corporate b-roll, journalistic or doc situations. Iso would look perfectly fine on its own in most situations, using some NR for tougher lighting situations would sweeten it up more.

Photos. The GH6 will overwhelmingly be used fo motion work, likely not seeing any photo usage. That said, I snapped off some impromptu un-lit raw stills of the surgeon mentioned above. I forgot that raw is not yet supported in any of my image editors of choice ( Raw Power, Photos). Last time I tried, SilkyPix didn’t appear to support it yet either. Short answer, I haven’t evaluated raw files.

I did shoot some jpegs this morning to get a feel for still image IQ. Wow. The detail, color and tonality makes me very, very happy. I shot at ISO 100-250, I’m no seeing the low Iso shadow noise that the DPReview video complained about. I cranked the shadow recovery up in Photos as far as it would go, didn’t see anything to be concerned about at all. Maybe another program with larger adjustment parameters might cause this to occur- I dunno.

On occasion I do corporate headshots and some product-shot work. I’d happily use this camera over my GH5, not that it’s a slouch.

Ergonomics/ functionality:

In the months leading up to the GH6 release, it dawned on me that what I was really hoping for was a M43 S1H. Of course an improvement in IQ was needed, I assumed there would be improvement there. I wish the boost DR was more flexible to use (lower iso settings= less ND), but otherwise it’s a solid step up (or two) from the GH5 in terms of DR capability.

I have no interest in going FF, but I was envious of the operational features on the S1H. Recording red frame, tally lights, front recording trigger, adjustable waveforms, V-log and the tilt up screen are critically important features for me. Usability enhancements and professional tools were the features that would cause me to purchase yet another hybrid camera. The one major disappointment was the lack of a S1H level viewfinder. Drats… . I would have paid more for that. That said, the GH6 viewfinder is better than the GH5’s . I’m puzzled as to why, they have the same resolution specs ? It’s just a better and more immersive user experience, it seems like there’s more clarity, the screen info is ore immediate. Maybe the magnification specs have been increased? Even though it’s not S1H level, I’m pleasantly surprised.

Chunky camera? Oh yes!:

As a motion shooter, The GH series cameras have been too fiddly for me. The quality of the button and dial interface was lacking, the buttons were too small, often times poorly located, and not enough of them for camera operation. The dedicated audio button and lock switch are awesome, as is the display button, the size of the grip and the angled top where the WB/ISO buttons are. I like the chunkier body and larger buttons for motion work. Ergonomically, nothing but improvements.

I’m not sure why folks think every single M43 camera has to be svelte and tiny- function and form. For video, the GH6 size is an improvement in function IMO. Truth be told, for my personal still work, I don’t like the DSLR form factor at all. I’m a dyed in the wool range finder-esque with 1-2 lens photographer. The GH/DLSR design and size is a necessary form factor for the task at hand. Horses for courses and all of that. Otherwise, I’m eagerly waiting for the GX10, Oly equivalent , or Fujifilm XE5 for photos.

Lastly, if there are any still reading this tome…

I purchased the GH6 as a concession to the lack of there being a successor to the AF100 or even the DVX200 which I own. The hybrid form factor has its strengths, but the cons are significant for professional motion work. If there was an updated AF100, I’d take it in a heart beat over the GH6 as a video tool. My hope is that Panasonic would really start to diverge from the hybrid concept and introduce a professional M43 video-only camera. The DSLR form factor is just too gimped in so many ways as a video/motion camera. Limited real estate for controls, limited VF and LCD function/ size, no internal ND’s and the necessity for cages, audio adapters and other work arounds. The market has caught up to the GH series with more optimal photo IQ than what M43 can deliver. Apple to apples, spec sheet to spec sheet, the hybrid FF photo capabilities of the competition are going to be tough to compete against. Panasonics continuation of the GH line without bringing back a dedicated M43 ILC video/cinema style camera is a huge misstep IMO- not playing to the formats technical or market differentiation advantages. Furthermore, they really dropped the ball in releasing excellent glass like the 10-25 and 25-50 as late as they did. If they are serious about continuing to develop M43 as pro or prosumer video creation tools, they should release a pro version of something like the 14-140 lens. This system needs a video specific wide focal length lens, so that lens changes are not as neccesary for the typical industrial/ ENG/ corporate shooter. Make it a f 2.0 or even a 2.8 with all of the operation features and quality of the 10-25. Winner winner chicken dinner. Honestly, I have wondered for some time how committed Panasonic is making M43 continue on as a pro/prosumer video format. Their marketing material and corporate statements would indicate that they consider M43 as “pro-ish” or “not too pro” compared to FF. It is an artificial distinction that they seem intent on making for marketing reasons. It’s a shame.

As much as I have gushed about the GH6 above, this could be my last Panasonic hybrid. Although the release of this camera would seem to indicate otherwise, I have my doubts about how seriously they are committed to M43 as a professional video production format. I adore the format- maybe more than Panasonic does?

Now, when is the GX10 coming?

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Pete_W
Pete_W Senior Member • Posts: 2,838
Re: Well...
1

Roger Monroe wrote:

User context:

Professional DP, videographer, photographer (less so these days), former TV news photojournalist. Clients include healthcare, corporate, industrial, some event work. B-roll, sit down interviews, green screen etc.

<snip>

Lastly, if there are any still reading this tome…

Thanks for the long post, it is great to hear about your experience and the context about how you use the GH6. Great information!

As much as I have gushed about the GH6 above, this could be my last Panasonic hybrid. Although the release of this camera would seem to indicate otherwise, I have my doubts about how seriously they are committed to M43 as a professional video production format. I adore the format- maybe more than Panasonic does?

Now, when is the GX10 coming?

I have had the same questions, and recently purchased a FF Panasonic camera as I am uncertain whether there will be replacements for the G9 or GX9. There have been no rumours at all about new models, although the recent PL9 lens announcement was a suprise with little forewarning, so perhaps there is hope.

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Pete

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Roger Monroe Regular Member • Posts: 401
Re: Well...

Pete_W wrote:

Roger Monroe wrote:

User context:

Professional DP, videographer, photographer (less so these days), former TV news photojournalist. Clients include healthcare, corporate, industrial, some event work. B-roll, sit down interviews, green screen etc.

<snip>

Lastly, if there are any still reading this tome…

Thanks for the long post, it is great to hear about your experience and the context about how you use the GH6. Great information!

You're welcome Pete. Yeah... it was the post that got away from me ;-0 . I thought the context might be helpful.

As much as I have gushed about the GH6 above, this could be my last Panasonic hybrid. Although the release of this camera would seem to indicate otherwise, I have my doubts about how seriously they are committed to M43 as a professional video production format. I adore the format- maybe more than Panasonic does?

Now, when is the GX10 coming?

I have had the same questions, and recently purchased a FF Panasonic camera as I am uncertain whether there will be replacements for the G9 or GX9. There have been no rumours at all about new models, although the recent PL9 lens announcement was a suprise with little forewarning, so perhaps there is hope.

I hope our doubts are thoroughly crushed . Panasonic is adding some seriously great lenses, I hope it's an indicator of things to come. If a GX10 with a quality VF is released, I'll order it in a hot second.

As a follow up, I had some more time to edit and look at the GH6 jpegs mentioned in the post. I'm truly impressed with the IQ. I'm kind of giddy actually. I can't wait to edit raws.

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Pete_W
Pete_W Senior Member • Posts: 2,838
Re: Well...

Roger Monroe wrote:

I hope our doubts are thoroughly crushed . Panasonic is adding some seriously great lenses, I hope it's an indicator of things to come. If a GX10 with a quality VF is released, I'll order it in a hot second.

Yes, I would order a new GX model if one comes!

As a follow up, I had some more time to edit and look at the GH6 jpegs mentioned in the post. I'm truly impressed with the IQ. I'm kind of giddy actually. I can't wait to edit raws.

Good to hear. I saw today that DxO PhotoLab v5.3 has just been released with support for GH6 RW2 files, so support from other apps can't be too far away.

Some photos posted in the last week or so from another GH6 user were really impressive in term of tonality and DR.

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Pete

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SOTOK
SOTOK Forum Member • Posts: 71
Re: GH6: your impressions/comparisons, realworld changes

James Stirling wrote:

SOTOK wrote:

James Stirling wrote:

Gnine wrote:

Strangefinder wrote:

What are your impressions of the various new IQ techniques and tech? (DR, 100mpx etc)

How does it compare with the X-H2S, S5, OM1 and predecessors?

Specific realworld differences, synergies & general observations from hobbyists, videographers, professionals who have used the GH6. Thanks!

It seems to nearly be despised here, you'll have more luck here I think. People that actually own and use them seem rather impressed

https://www.mu-43.com/threads/gh6-as-a-photography-stills-tool.114471/

I think a lot of it is down to the GH6 being perceived as mainly a video orientated device. I notice that most threads with a video aspect involved don't get much feedback.

In another thread I was involved in recently I happened to be looking at B&H bestseller lists and the GH6 was the highest placed m43 camera { they include pre-ordered stuff so even if supply is poor OM-1/ Z9 etc the numbers are still recorded. Not a universal sales data point obviously but it is the largest camera store in the world with a huge online presence

Mirrorless Cameras | B&H Photo (bhphotovideo.com)

I believe you are seeing the effect of the kit bundle. In m43, the GH6 is #1 and #21 (kit). The OM-1 is #2 and #4 (kit) respectively. They are all being outsold by the XH2S

Kit options I suspect make up a smaller number of sales of higher end cameras as most buying them are in the system and will already have lenses. The GH6 body only is the highest placed m43 camera in the overall top selling mirrorless list at 21st spot , 17 of the top 21 are FF.
The Fuji xh2s has only been announced in the last week a lot of newly announced cameras pop in high on the list due to a rush of -pre-orders in the first couple of weeks . After the couple of weeks this will typically slow down and the camera will move down the list to a more normal position for that model. As I say it is only a broad stroke but suggests that bird shooting OM-1 users in this forum may not be an accurate reflection of the wider market.

The OM-1 kit outsells every other m43 ILC body or kit if the link you provide is a accurate sales list. Given the OM-1 represents #2 and #4 (kit) while GH6 is #1 and #21(kit), I am inclined to believe the overall volume and certainly the overall revenue favors OMDS.

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