Should I buy the M50 MKII?

Digirame wrote:

R2, the camera you are using is great but could have been designed better like the Canon R7 with the integrated EVF. Don't you think? The Canon M50 MKII has an integrated EVF and we can use the LCD screen. I never did understand why Canon designed the camera you are using that way, so that an EVF has to be added.

The M6 and the M6ii were both designed this way, intentionally, so they could be used with or without the EVF. 'Without' being an extremely small compact form factor, also suitable for vlogging where you would want the forward-facing screen but no EVF.

Some people (myself included) like this flexibility. I also prefer the tilting screen to the fully articulating one for most of my shooting.

Today I took video with my Canon M50 MKII using the EVF. Now that I learned how to change the tiny video start/stop button to the larger shutter button in the menu, it was really cool. I have tried taking video with the LCD screen with my DSLR, but on bright sunny days it's especially difficult. Do you take video with your camera?

I'm not R2 but can tell you my experiences as well.... I am moving over to shooting more and more video with all my M cameras. I tried shooting video first on the rear screen of a 70D and found it very difficult to get a steady video holding the camera out in front of me. I switched to the M6 and ultimately the M6ii which I love shooting video with. I also have modified the shutter button to start and stop the video. I find that shooting video with the EVF makes for very steady videos.

Today's experiment with video was interesting. I didn't quite understand it at first, but with some trial and error it worked out great. When I fully depressed the shutter button in movie mode it would record. Just lifting off the shutter button would not stop the video. I had to fully depress the shutter button again to stop it. It was fun. I can't wait to try it some more. I've been a still photographer for a very long time. I see the handwriting on the wall; video is going to continue to expand in use and importance. The sound and visual aspects of it are amazing.

One fellow on the Rebel forum who had a Canon T3i (600D) camera and just bought a Canon 7D camera uploads his video to YouTube (as unlisted) for free. Then we can view it on Dpreview.

I do exactly the same --- I have a channel where I have both listed and unlisted videos which I will share in certain places as desired. My most recent video is one I shot yesterday morning of dragon boats on the Hillsborough river in Tampa, FL.

I wanted to test my 'new' EF-M 55-200 lens for handheld video (it performed very well) and I also shot video of the dragon boats over a mile away with an EF-S 55-250 IS STM lens on a Canon EF - EOS M adapter and Bogen/Manfrotto tripod, and for the most distant shots used both a Kenko 1.5x and a Kiron 2x teleconverter, for a 1200mm-equivalent full frame equivalent focal length!

Here's a link to the dragon boat video, but from it you can get to my other videos. Without exception all my videos are shot with the M system. I am by no means any kind of expert, just an amateur trying to improve...

https://youtu.be/BrWLtWNKCEQ

My usual technique is to shoot 4k video with digital IS enabled (not the maximum 'enhanced' IS most of the time as it cuts the quality too much) and then edit and downsample the final result to either 1440p or 1080p mp4 video which ends up pretty sharp.

I was thinking of starting a thread to ask about other people's 'M' system video experiences and share some of my own - I may still do that.

Digirame wrote:

R2, the camera you are using is great but could have been designed better like the Canon R7 with the integrated EVF. Don't you think?

Hi Digi’

I hope all is well with you.

I have to disagree with you. I love the form factor of the M6ii, and the ease with which it promotes creative shooting angles and perspectives. Most EVF (and OVF) shooters I know tend to only shoot from a 3 foot to a 6 foot height. I’m often laying the camera on the ground or lifting it way above my head. It’s all so much easier and faster with the M6ii. I actually consider LCD shooting to be evolutionary!

The Canon M50 MKII has an integrated EVF and we can use the LCD screen.

Sure, except the LCD is a lot slower to deploy (and retract), and having the display stick out to the side is pretty clumsy.

I never did understand why Canon designed the camera you are using that way, so that an EVF has to be added.

It’s smaller, it’s cheaper, it promotes additional sales (of an EVF), it doesn’t threaten the higher end lines. A no-brainer!

Today I took video with my Canon M50 MKII using the EVF. Now that I learned how to change the tiny video start/stop button to the larger shutter button in the menu, it was really cool. I have tried taking video with the LCD screen with my DSLR, but on bright sunny days it's especially difficult. Do you take video with your camera?

Sure, recreationally and professionally. I was Art Director at a production studio for a while. We did ads and PSA’s for orgs like The United Way. The M6ii meets my personal video needs tho.

Today's experiment with video was interesting. I didn't quite understand it at first, but with some trial and error it worked out great. When I fully depressed the shutter button in movie mode it would record. Just lifting off the shutter button would not stop the video. I had to fully depress the shutter button again to stop it.

Exactly how it works for me too.

It was fun. I can't wait to try it some more. I've been a still photographer for a very long time. I see the handwriting on the wall; video is going to continue to expand in use and importance. The sound and visual aspects of it are amazing.

Video can add a lot of fun, esp with family and friends. My #1 “rule” for shooting recreationally is to never exceed 30 seconds per clip!

One fellow on the Rebel forum who had a Canon T3i (600D) camera and just bought a Canon 7D camera uploads his video to YouTube (as unlisted) for free. Then we can view it on Dpreview.

Nowadays it’s drone footage that’s the big thing, I’ve done it recreationally, but now mgmt wants me to go all in (FAA licensing, the whole nine yards). They’ll pay for everything of course, but it’s still a LOT of work. The chase scenes should be pretty cool though.

Are you getting that R7 that you mentioned earlier? It should be a heck of a camera. It sure won’t be taking the place of my M6ii tho!

R2

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

B_Gardner wrote:

I forgot to mention that I got the DC2 EVF for free bundled with my M6ii. I have since bought the DC1 EVF for under $100 used because I like the fact that it can rotate upward which is very useful when doing astrophotography. That's another thing that the built-in EVFs can't do (as far as I know).

I find the ability to choose whether to use the DC1, DC2 or no EVF preferable to the built-in one on the M50. The only drawback that I'm aware of wrt the detachable EVF is that you can't use the hot-shoe for anything else when the EVF is attached.

That's not the only downside for me. When you like to have your EVF attached permanently your camera is also bigger. That external EVF sticks out significantly further than an integrated EVF. Removing it when putting in the bag and attaching it before shooting all the time is cumbersome.

Well there’s a pretty solid percentage of us who actually prefer to use the back LCD instead of an EVF (one of the reasons I so love the M6ii’s ultra-fast tilting screen ).

Personally I believe that using the LCD promotes creative photography (or at least more creative angles). It’s also a benefit with many other aspects of my own photography.

R2

The problem with Canon's tilting screen design, is that it only works in landscape mode. Taking low angle vertical shots with my M5, would require me to get down on my knees, or worse, to lie on my stomach. In situations where that's not practical, I'm forced to shoot horizontally, and then crop to vertical in post, with the resulting loss in resolution.

I wish that Canon had used a twin-axis design, like that found on some Fuji models.

Murrango wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

B_Gardner wrote:

I forgot to mention that I got the DC2 EVF for free bundled with my M6ii. I have since bought the DC1 EVF for under $100 used because I like the fact that it can rotate upward which is very useful when doing astrophotography. That's another thing that the built-in EVFs can't do (as far as I know).

I find the ability to choose whether to use the DC1, DC2 or no EVF preferable to the built-in one on the M50. The only drawback that I'm aware of wrt the detachable EVF is that you can't use the hot-shoe for anything else when the EVF is attached.

That's not the only downside for me. When you like to have your EVF attached permanently your camera is also bigger. That external EVF sticks out significantly further than an integrated EVF. Removing it when putting in the bag and attaching it before shooting all the time is cumbersome.

Well there’s a pretty solid percentage of us who actually prefer to use the back LCD instead of an EVF (one of the reasons I so love the M6ii’s ultra-fast tilting screen ).

Personally I believe that using the LCD promotes creative photography (or at least more creative angles). It’s also a benefit with many other aspects of my own photography.

R2

The problem with Canon's tilting screen design, is that it only works in landscape mode. Taking low angle vertical shots with my M5, would require me to get down on my knees, or worse, to lie on my stomach. In situations where that's not practical, I'm forced to shoot horizontally, and then crop to vertical in post, with the resulting loss in resolution.

That’s where the higher MP count of the M6ii comes in very handy.  

I wish that Canon had used a twin-axis design, like that found on some Fuji models.

I do like that 2-way tilt design too.  As long as it’s fast and can be deployed with one hand (finger).

R2

Digirame wrote:

R2, the camera you are using is great but could have been designed better like the Canon R7 with the integrated EVF. Don't you think? The Canon M50 MKII has an integrated EVF and we can use the LCD screen. I never did understand why Canon designed the camera you are using that way, so that an EVF has to be added.

I never thought I'd say this, but after using it, I really don't mind the add-on viewfinder and flip screen.  The flip out screen is more versatile, but the screen also has its own advantages.  And the flip screen almost requires the detachable viewfinder, because otherwise the viewfinder would be in the way.

Some people have complained that the detachable viewfinder takes a little more height and length in the bag than the usual viewfinder hump.  This is true, but I don't find it a problem for my bag.  It depends on the bag and what else you have in it.

The main advantage of the flip screen for me is that I can use it inconspicuously to photograph people.  They may not even be aware you're taking pictures.  Ordinarily, however, handheld use almost requires a viewfinder to hold the camera steady, unless you're R2D2.

The only advantage of a removable viewfinder, besides making the flip screen possible, is that with a small lens the camera can masquerade as a small, incapable camera, in case of overly aggressive gatekeepers.  I haven't really tested this feature yet, but I'm pretty sure a DSLR the size of a Graflex wouldn't really cut it.

I have downsized from full-frame Canon DSLR cameras (5Dmk3) to the M50 originally and more recently added a M50m2 to the collection, so the bar was set high from the outset. The switch to mirrorless was the best decision I ever made.

They are both amazing cameras and only just 2 days ago shot a full-day wedding (over 3500 images) and the 2 cameras performed flawlessly, so I would definitely recommend them both but the Mk2 is definitely worth the small premium with a more accurate and faster focusing.

Regarding lenses, for sure you can use existing EF-S lenses but you'd be better off to invest in EF-M lenses from Canon and Sigma - the quality is comparable and often better than the EF-S equivalents and they are small and light - for example my EF-M 55-200 is almost as good as my Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS lens so much so that I sold the latter. The lenses that I totally love on the M50s are the Sigma 56/1.4 and Sigma 30/1.4 - they are absolutely amazing and solidly built. The other lens which I like and use more and more is the Canon 22/f2. For sports the 55-200 is a great performer but not for low-light or indoor sports

There are many on this forum who will sing the praises of the M6 Mk2 which admittedly is a very capable camera and higher specified than the M50Mk2 but for me the lack of a built-in viewfinder is a show-stopper hence why I would never consider it an option!

The M50mkII has no minimum shutter speed.   Beside DR that was the reason for me to go with the M6II.  I'm not a pro, I need my minimum shutter speed in Av. 

thunder storm wrote:

The M50mkII has no minimum shutter speed. Beside DR that was the reason for me to go with the M6II. I'm not a pro, I need my minimum shutter speed in Av.

The M50mkII has a very good Auto mode.

It will ask you to pop up the flash sometimes though but it seems very smart using the flash.

With the 22mm on it you can point and click just as fast as can be.

It is something how it chooses what to focus on !

Very fun camera !

Totally agree.

Also some of us feel that turning up to a client for a paid assignment taking photos in what would appear to them as a glorified smartphone (i,e. stretched hands holding your cameras as you hold your smartphone to take a shot) may appear to some to be unprofessional. Jared Polin (look him up on YouTube - he has 1.4 million subscribers) has some stronger words to describe this "style" of photography and never misses a chance to bad-mouth EVF-less cameras...  I know this is very personal and often contentious but thought I'd mention that point for you to consider especially as you are coming from DSLR

Alexis wrote:

Totally agree.

Also some of us feel that turning up to a client for a paid assignment taking photos in what would appear to them as a glorified smartphone (i,e. stretched hands holding your cameras as you hold your smartphone to take a shot) may appear to some to be unprofessional. Jared Polin (look him up on YouTube - he has 1.4 million subscribers) has some stronger words to describe this "style" of photography and never misses a chance to bad-mouth EVF-less cameras... I know this is very personal and often contentious but thought I'd mention that point for you to consider especially as you are coming from DSLR

I’ll play the devil’s advocate.  I believe that this holding a camera up to your face (for general photography) is an affectation that will pass once our generation passes.  The “Smartphone Generation” will see either method as being completely normal!  There are indeed distinct advantages to both styles that will cut through any pre-held prejudices.

Personally I do understand how my clientele (and you and Jared Polin) think.  So yes, I always show up to a shoot with my huge honking lenses, multiple clunky bodies, straps and battery grips (and monster softboxes and umbrellas if needed).  And I’ll shoot through the viewfinder!    (except for those times I need a unique angle or POV).

And my clients never think twice about my sometimes unorthodox style when I show them the pictures.  For all of my professional life I’ve had to turn down more business than I actually shoot.  Pros live by Word of Mouth and their portfolios.  So I understand your POV Alexis, I really do.

But when I’m shooting for fun, for ME, I’m stretching those arms baby.  Stretching those arms.  

R2

R2D2 wrote:

Alexis wrote:

Totally agree.

Also some of us feel that turning up to a client for a paid assignment taking photos in what would appear to them as a glorified smartphone (i,e. stretched hands holding your cameras as you hold your smartphone to take a shot) may appear to some to be unprofessional. Jared Polin (look him up on YouTube - he has 1.4 million subscribers) has some stronger words to describe this "style" of photography and never misses a chance to bad-mouth EVF-less cameras... I know this is very personal and often contentious but thought I'd mention that point for you to consider especially as you are coming from DSLR

I’ll play the devil’s advocate. I believe that this holding a camera up to your face (for general photography) is an affectation that will pass once our generation passes. The “Smartphone Generation” will see either method as being completely normal! There are indeed distinct advantages to both styles that will cut through any pre-held prejudices.

Good point

Personally I do understand how my clientele (and you and Jared Polin) think. So yes, I always show up to a shoot with my huge honking lenses, multiple clunky bodies, straps and battery grips (and monster softboxes and umbrellas if needed). And I’ll shoot through the viewfinder! (except for those times I need a unique angle or POV).

I honestly did think of you and our numerous discussions that we had on the subject - during the crazy party/dancing shots when everyone was dancing (often in circles) and I was shooting above their heads pointing downwards thanks to the swivelling screen of my M50s. Just like in the old DSLR days, it was hit and miss to a degree, hoping that the wide lens, flash, and the generous aperture would nail the action but on Saturday I caught myself touching the screen actually defining the focus point while holding the camera aloft with both hands - "Oh my God - where is R2 to watch me do this" was my thought at the time 😁

And my clients never think twice about my sometimes unorthodox style when I show them the pictures. For all of my professional life I’ve had to turn down more business than I actually shoot. Pros live by Word of Mouth and their portfolios. So I understand your POV Alexis, I really do.

Results is everything I totally agree, hence why this ageing retired pro-am still gets asked to shoot the odd wedding/christening/event.

Let me close with a short story that highlights differences in "client culture" from country to country. The first wedding I shot shortly after I repatriated back to Cyprus in 2009 went very well... on the day I delivered my lovely Italian leather GraphiStudio (I recommend them)  albums and got paid the balance, I asked the couple if everything was OK and they said there was just one problem to which I was surprised knowing that they were very happy with me all along. They said "the problem with you is that you are too cheap and if anybody asks us what we paid, we are definitely not telling them what you charged because it's below the going rate for the kind of work that you did for us!!". To which I answered "but surely you should be proud to have managed a good result and didn't pay the earth" - the answer was "Not in Cyprus!". Someone later explained that penny-pinching, driving a bargain or "getting a good deal" are not signs of financial success - Go figure!

Thanks for your amusing response R2 - always love your posts.

But when I’m shooting for fun, for ME, I’m stretching those arms baby. Stretching those arms.

R2

R2D2 wrote:

Alexis wrote:

Totally agree.

Also some of us feel that turning up to a client for a paid assignment taking photos in what would appear to them as a glorified smartphone (i,e. stretched hands holding your cameras as you hold your smartphone to take a shot) may appear to some to be unprofessional. Jared Polin (look him up on YouTube - he has 1.4 million subscribers) has some stronger words to describe this "style" of photography and never misses a chance to bad-mouth EVF-less cameras... I know this is very personal and often contentious but thought I'd mention that point for you to consider especially as you are coming from DSLR

I’ll play the devil’s advocate. I believe that this holding a camera up to your face (for general photography) is an affectation that will pass once our generation passes.

I will be the living dinosaur. 

The “Smartphone Generation” will see either method as being completely normal! There are indeed distinct advantages to both styles that will cut through any pre-held prejudices.

This is very true.

Beside factual advantages, it can be also a matter of shooting experience. With the eye to the viewfinder your living in the picture you're making. With holding the camera in front of you you're closer to watching the picture you're making as a picture already.

For me that's a huge difference, and to my eye it shows it's not about results only. It's not about products only, it's also about the process getting you there.

Personally I do understand how my clientele (and you and Jared Polin) think. So yes, I always show up to a shoot with my huge honking lenses, multiple clunky bodies, straps and battery grips (and monster softboxes and umbrellas if needed). And I’ll shoot through the viewfinder! (except for those times I need a unique angle or POV).

And my clients never think twice about my sometimes unorthodox style when I show them the pictures. For all of my professional life I’ve had to turn down more business than I actually shoot. Pros live by Word of Mouth and their portfolios. So I understand your POV Alexis, I really do.

But when I’m shooting for fun, for ME, I’m stretching those arms baby. Stretching those arms.

R2

I think this explains your love for M very well.

bgreg wrote:

Everything they are telling you about the M6/2 is true. What they have not mentioned is there is no built in EVF and you can purchase an add on EVF for $200 additional --It uses the hot shoe and you can not then use a flash while using the EVF, I mention this because I read you are coming from DSLRs and may prefer a built in EVF and want to use a speedlite and an EVF at the same time.

I have an ancient (around 2004) Canon 550-EX speedlite and basically the only small bodies that have a nice balance with it are the rebels and EOS Rs.

Besides EOS R is my low light monster.

I think IF I am going to use it with M3/M6i/M6ii I probably would be using the rear screen anyways.

Hi,

Indeed your ‘camera’ needs to stay ahead of the iPhone camera, so time for an upgrade of camera body and lens.

The current generation of cameras offers faster and more accurate AF, higher FPS ( nice when you shoot action) and better low light resolution. With a current generation zoom lens you have much better reach + IQ. And you can get better subject isolation ( bokeh / back ground blur).

with all the proper respect i would call you a ‘buy and hold’ user : once you have a working set of lens and body - you will use it 5-7 years. perhaps you add 1 prime, but unlike many on this forum you will not be constantly adding lenses to you camera backpack !

this means that you do not need to worry about M becoming obsolete.

the M with M 18-150 mm lens would be a super set.

the R10 with new RF 18-150 would be a bit better and more $$$

the RP with the RF 24-240 would be the 3rd option again better and $$$$$$

Just pick what feels best ergonomically, mentally and wallet wise. ( and what’s available within your requested horizon )

Lost99999 wrote:

Hi,

Indeed your ‘camera’ needs to stay ahead of the iPhone camera, so time for an upgrade of camera body and lens.

The current generation of cameras offers faster and more accurate AF, higher FPS ( nice when you shoot action) and better low light resolution. With a current generation zoom lens you have much better reach + IQ. And you can get better subject isolation ( bokeh / back ground blur).

with all the proper respect i would call you a ‘buy and hold’ user : once you have a working set of lens and body - you will use it 5-7 years. perhaps you add 1 prime, but unlike many on this forum you will not be constantly adding lenses to you camera backpack !

this means that you do not need to worry about M becoming obsolete.

the M with M 18-150 mm lens would be a super set.

the R10 with new RF 18-150 would be a bit better and more $$$

the RP with the RF 24-240 would be the 3rd option again better and $$$$$$

R10 is in all reality better camera than RP except of course in high iso.

Just pick what feels best ergonomically, mentally and wallet wise. ( and what’s available within your requested horizon )

thunder storm wrote:

The M50mkII has no minimum shutter speed. Beside DR that was the reason for me to go with the M6II. I'm not a pro, I need my minimum shutter speed in Av.

Fv is another reason

Alexis wrote:

I have downsized from full-frame Canon DSLR cameras (5Dmk3) to the M50 originally and more recently added a M50m2 to the collection, so the bar was set high from the outset. The switch to mirrorless was the best decision I ever made.

They are both amazing cameras and only just 2 days ago shot a full-day wedding (over 3500 images) and the 2 cameras performed flawlessly, so I would definitely recommend them both but the Mk2 is definitely worth the small premium with a more accurate and faster focusing.

Regarding lenses, for sure you can use existing EF-S lenses but you'd be better off to invest in EF-M lenses from Canon and Sigma - the quality is comparable and often better than the EF-S equivalents and they are small and light - for example my EF-M 55-200 is almost as good as my Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS lens so much so that I sold the latter. The lenses that I totally love on the M50s are the Sigma 56/1.4 and Sigma 30/1.4 - they are absolutely amazing and solidly built. The other lens which I like and use more and more is the Canon 22/f2. For sports the 55-200 is a great performer but not for low-light or indoor sports

There are many on this forum who will sing the praises of the M6 Mk2 which admittedly is a very capable camera and higher specified than the M50Mk2 but for me the lack of a built-in viewfinder is a show-stopper hence why I would never consider it an option!

Lack of VF is a bit of an issue but it is just such a super camera in all other aspects

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