Where is the successor to the original EOS R?

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

MAC wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

MAC wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

MAC wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

TimP111 wrote:

would have thought the R and RP just become obsolete and we have R1,R3,R5,R6,R7,R10 for the foreseeable future

I won't be shocked if this happens. As time passes it seems Canon is following much of the same strategy in the R system as they did in the EF system. This would mean no FF cameras priced under the top APS-C model. I can see their bottom R FF camera just being a smidge above the R7. Also, it looks like the R7 is the only APS-C camera to get an Rx designation. The all other APS-C cameras will be Rxx or Rxxx.

they'll not make a fast focus R replacement for $1700 with 30 mpxl when they have a 20 mpxl $2500 R6

They will if there is an R replacement. It should have the same AF as the R10 at a minimum. There are times where some lower priced models get more advanced features than high priced ones just because of the timing of when each camera is released. It will be interesting to see what Canon does when updating the R6.

the R6 will drop down to $1999

they'll not replace the R

Transient pricing changes on old models does not affect the price point of new Canon releases. I’m other words, and R6 Mark II would come out at the same or nearly the same price as the R6. Canon often has price overlaps as outgoing higher models drop in price to about the same as the next step down which is often still quite new. Then a year or two later the Mark +1 drops and resets the value proposition.

the R6 has speed, but underwhelming 20 mpxl

Exactly, Canon does not regress in resolution on updated bodies.

they'll not introduce speed into a 30 mpxl camera for R pricing

No, not to match the R6 unless the R6II is due to be replaced soon….because then people may upgrade to the R and then upgrade again when the R6 II comes out.

therefore, the R6 becomes the R replacement

That would be an exceptionally rare exception to Canon’s normal behavior. I personally don’t buy it.

You don't have to buy it. It's what they did.

A lot of this conversation is sounding a lot like the Nikon DSLR people who don't accept the D750 as the "successor" to the D700 or the folks who don't accept the D8x0 series of cameras as the "successors" to the D3x just because they're not strictly built like for like.

Which is also why I don't want to tie myself into thinking of cameras as successors of another. The design behind a camera is surrounded by circumstances of that time, and as requirements and consumer spending behaviours change over time, the design perimeters change.

Trent Severn wrote:

So many new mirror-less camera body releases since the original EOS R, but I haven't heard much when (or if) a direct successor is coming.

I don't want/need a pro body, and I don't want a crop sensor. Does Canon expect us to upgrade to the R5/R6?

For the most part, I'm mostly fine with the R, but it's auto-focus system is definitely looking quite dated.

I'm basically looking for the same R body + updated focusing system (that every other newer R-body camera seems to have), and a faster sensor readout fo a more useable silent/electronic shutter (without the banding/stretching artifacts). Everything else can pretty much stay the same.

The R and RP formed a test run for the new mirrorless system. If we make a comparison with the DSLR lineup, the R5 replaces the 5D series and the R6 replaces the 6D series. Seems that’s it for a pro-sumer lineup. Not sure wether the market would take a model below the R6 as well. Something like Nikon’s Z5, a model with ibis. That would arrange me as I don’t need the speed of the R6 nor the 4K video. Depends what the market wants I guess and what is profitable for the company.

As for what you’re asking for, in general, higher end specs apply to all the camera. It won’t have high end stuff here and lower end stuff there.

KEG wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

quiquae wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

I think/hope Canon will consolidate and update the RP/R. IBIS, new AF, legitimate 5 FPS, full width 4K24P, $1500 launch price.

The R isn't really sure for replacement for another year, the RP possibly not for at least two years, going by the models whose sensors and market position they share. I think the R and the RP are aimed at different users and consolidating then into one model will lose some of them. A $1500 launch price seems too cheap to do the hardware for IBIS, legitimate 5 FPS, full width 4K24, etc. properly. We can all dream, but unrealistic expectations don't help.

My guess is that the main reason EOS R is still being made--in spite of not selling that well

Are there any sales numbers that support this conclusion? I’ve never seen anything that indicates the R hasn’t sold well.

I would think that in order of popularity the order would be RP, R, R6, R5 and R3

In cumulative numbers, perhaps. However, the relevant figure in this discourse is the current weekly sales volume. The R rarely if ever shows up in sales rankings published in Japan these days, whereas the RP and the R6 are almost always in the top ten, and even the R5 is a regular player.

(Note that I am not saying this because I want to bury the R. On the contrary, as an owner, I have a strong incentive to see its resale value stay up!)

Swerky wrote:

Trent Severn wrote:

So many new mirror-less camera body releases since the original EOS R, but I haven't heard much when (or if) a direct successor is coming.

I don't want/need a pro body, and I don't want a crop sensor. Does Canon expect us to upgrade to the R5/R6?

For the most part, I'm mostly fine with the R, but it's auto-focus system is definitely looking quite dated.

I'm basically looking for the same R body + updated focusing system (that every other newer R-body camera seems to have), and a faster sensor readout fo a more useable silent/electronic shutter (without the banding/stretching artifacts). Everything else can pretty much stay the same.

The R and RP formed a test run for the new mirrorless system. If we make a comparison with the DSLR lineup, the R5 replaces the 5D series and the R6 replaces the 6D series. Seems that’s it for a pro-sumer lineup. Not sure wether the market would take a model below the R6 as well. Something like Nikon’s Z5, a model with ibis. That would arrange me as I don’t need the speed of the R6 nor the 4K video. Depends what the market wants I guess and what is profitable for the company.

As for what you’re asking for, in general, higher end specs apply to all the camera. It won’t have high end stuff here and lower end stuff there.

I am fairly sure that R5 and R6 will end up replacing R and RP, probably on the same day as when R5 mk II and R6 mk II get announced.

Chip shortage could also be the primary reason for the high price of R5/R6, they are both around $500 - $1000 more expensive than their actual standing in the lineup indicates.

drsnoopy wrote:

Apart from the R and RP, all the later R series are numbered which seems to set a trend. However the R and especially the RP - while remaining fine imaging devices in their own niches - are looking decidedly outdated especially in terms of AF and tracking. The RP has the distinction of being very compact for a FF body, and this is what’s missing from the updated R range. So my guess is that the R will not be replaced as such - but the RP will be replaced by a 30MP approx updated FF sensor in a similarly compact body, but with the Digic X and AF system from the newer bodies. And hopefully an improved EVF. Let’s call it an EOS RC perhaps…would be a superb entry to the FF R series, or as a second/travel body. I would happily buy one.

if they made a snappy RP with R3 AF system and 30 mp, who would buy a 20 mp R6 for $1500 more?

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

they'll leave the RP where it is at and not make it faster

the RP is the entry they want into FF

the R6 is the issue at only 20 mpxl - they can't make an R faster at 30 mpxl that would compete with an R6

Droster wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

MAC wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

MAC wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

MAC wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

TimP111 wrote:

would have thought the R and RP just become obsolete and we have R1,R3,R5,R6,R7,R10 for the foreseeable future

I won't be shocked if this happens. As time passes it seems Canon is following much of the same strategy in the R system as they did in the EF system. This would mean no FF cameras priced under the top APS-C model. I can see their bottom R FF camera just being a smidge above the R7. Also, it looks like the R7 is the only APS-C camera to get an Rx designation. The all other APS-C cameras will be Rxx or Rxxx.

they'll not make a fast focus R replacement for $1700 with 30 mpxl when they have a 20 mpxl $2500 R6

They will if there is an R replacement. It should have the same AF as the R10 at a minimum. There are times where some lower priced models get more advanced features than high priced ones just because of the timing of when each camera is released. It will be interesting to see what Canon does when updating the R6.

the R6 will drop down to $1999

they'll not replace the R

Transient pricing changes on old models does not affect the price point of new Canon releases. I’m other words, and R6 Mark II would come out at the same or nearly the same price as the R6. Canon often has price overlaps as outgoing higher models drop in price to about the same as the next step down which is often still quite new. Then a year or two later the Mark +1 drops and resets the value proposition.

the R6 has speed, but underwhelming 20 mpxl

Exactly, Canon does not regress in resolution on updated bodies.

they'll not introduce speed into a 30 mpxl camera for R pricing

No, not to match the R6 unless the R6II is due to be replaced soon….because then people may upgrade to the R and then upgrade again when the R6 II comes out.

therefore, the R6 becomes the R replacement

That would be an exceptionally rare exception to Canon’s normal behavior. I personally don’t buy it.

You don't have to buy it. It's what they did.

And yet there are just as many people say 5DIV was replaced by the R5 and the 6DII replaced by the R6.

Also, when Canon replaces a body they discontinue the old one. The R hasn't been discontinued.

A lot of this conversation is sounding a lot like the Nikon DSLR people who don't accept the D750 as the "successor" to the D700 or the folks who don't accept the D8x0 series of cameras as the "successors" to the D3x just because they're not strictly built like for like.

I don't know about those. I know that Canon maintains price points and releases in a pretty rigid fashion. Replacing the R within 2 years is unheard of. Changing the price by hundreds of dollars is rare. Reducing the MP count by a lot is something they never do in their refreshed bodies.  Going from 30MP to 20MP screams to me they are in no way related.  Typically drops like that in MP is for sports bodies.

Which is also why I don't want to tie myself into thinking of cameras as successors of another. The design behind a camera is surrounded by circumstances of that time, and as requirements and consumer spending behaviours change over time, the design perimeters change.

Canon's behaviors are much more rigid.

5D Aug 2005, 13MP $3,300

5DII Sep 2008, 21MP $2,700 (huge price drop!)

5DIII Mar 2012, 22MP (modest MP increase, huge AF upgrade, all other spec's bumped, exact same price) $3,500 (back up!)

5DIV Aug 2016, 30MP $3,500

I forgot about the crazy drop for the Mark II, but then it was right back up.

The XXD line had one divergence when it was downgraded a bit in features with the advent of the 7D. Resolution never dropped.

KEG wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

quiquae wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

I think/hope Canon will consolidate and update the RP/R. IBIS, new AF, legitimate 5 FPS, full width 4K24P, $1500 launch price.

The R isn't really sure for replacement for another year, the RP possibly not for at least two years, going by the models whose sensors and market position they share. I think the R and the RP are aimed at different users and consolidating then into one model will lose some of them. A $1500 launch price seems too cheap to do the hardware for IBIS, legitimate 5 FPS, full width 4K24, etc. properly. We can all dream, but unrealistic expectations don't help.

My guess is that the main reason EOS R is still being made--in spite of not selling that well

Are there any sales numbers that support this conclusion? I’ve never seen anything that indicates the R hasn’t sold well.

I would think that in order of popularity the order would be RP, R, R6, R5 and R3

So far all I've seen is guesses or speculation.  And the important measure is profit, not volume.

KEG wrote:

Swerky wrote:

Trent Severn wrote:

So many new mirror-less camera body releases since the original EOS R, but I haven't heard much when (or if) a direct successor is coming.

I don't want/need a pro body, and I don't want a crop sensor. Does Canon expect us to upgrade to the R5/R6?

For the most part, I'm mostly fine with the R, but it's auto-focus system is definitely looking quite dated.

I'm basically looking for the same R body + updated focusing system (that every other newer R-body camera seems to have), and a faster sensor readout fo a more useable silent/electronic shutter (without the banding/stretching artifacts). Everything else can pretty much stay the same.

The R and RP formed a test run for the new mirrorless system. If we make a comparison with the DSLR lineup, the R5 replaces the 5D series and the R6 replaces the 6D series. Seems that’s it for a pro-sumer lineup. Not sure wether the market would take a model below the R6 as well. Something like Nikon’s Z5, a model with ibis. That would arrange me as I don’t need the speed of the R6 nor the 4K video. Depends what the market wants I guess and what is profitable for the company.

As for what you’re asking for, in general, higher end specs apply to all the camera. It won’t have high end stuff here and lower end stuff there.

I am fairly sure that R5 and R6 will end up replacing R and RP, probably on the same day as when R5 mk II and R6 mk II get announced.

Chip shortage could also be the primary reason for the high price of R5/R6, they are both around $500 - $1000 more expensive than their actual standing in the lineup indicates.

Those cameras were released in mid-2020. There was no chip shortage yet. The chip shortage took a solid year after the beginning of the pandemic to become a thing.

Canon maintains price points almost to the exclusion of all else. They have had camera bodies refreshed with inexplicably minor updates and at the same price point as the previous generation. If they make an adjustment to the price it is almost always very minor. The biggest price point adjustment I can recall is when they split the 40D update into a $1,200 50D and an $1,800 7D diverging from the typical $1,500 price.

Also, why would the R5II and R6II replace the R and RP when the R5 and R6 didn't? Canon doesn't replace a body and then keep selling the old body.

The various justifications for thinking the R5 and R6 match the 5D and the 6D come down to this: the numbers look the same.

MikeJ9116 wrote:

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

This is what I think will happen. Now that APS-C has come to the R system Canon won't be selling a sub $1k FF camera. The R will be priced near the top end APS-C camera and become the entry level FF body. The RP was how Canon offered a low cost entry point into the R system since they had no APS-C cameras to fill this roll. I won't be surprised if this camera gets an R8 or R9 designation.

The R5 and R6 at the time were world class so they upped the pricing by $500 each.

The R5 represents the 5D series in mirrorless

and the R6 represents a pro grade 6d in mirrorless with dual slots

the 6 stayed and the 5 stayed representing previous DSLR's

these both could easily drop to $3500 and $2000 when they are no longer world class

then how does Canon fit a FF below this?  There is no previous DSLR # for this

well, they keep the RP slow

they keep the R slow

but wait -- the R7 is fast -- R3 AF fast

anything below the R6 in FF will be slow

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

KEG wrote:

Swerky wrote:

Trent Severn wrote:

So many new mirror-less camera body releases since the original EOS R, but I haven't heard much when (or if) a direct successor is coming.

I don't want/need a pro body, and I don't want a crop sensor. Does Canon expect us to upgrade to the R5/R6?

For the most part, I'm mostly fine with the R, but it's auto-focus system is definitely looking quite dated.

I'm basically looking for the same R body + updated focusing system (that every other newer R-body camera seems to have), and a faster sensor readout fo a more useable silent/electronic shutter (without the banding/stretching artifacts). Everything else can pretty much stay the same.

The R and RP formed a test run for the new mirrorless system. If we make a comparison with the DSLR lineup, the R5 replaces the 5D series and the R6 replaces the 6D series. Seems that’s it for a pro-sumer lineup. Not sure wether the market would take a model below the R6 as well. Something like Nikon’s Z5, a model with ibis. That would arrange me as I don’t need the speed of the R6 nor the 4K video. Depends what the market wants I guess and what is profitable for the company.

As for what you’re asking for, in general, higher end specs apply to all the camera. It won’t have high end stuff here and lower end stuff there.

I am fairly sure that R5 and R6 will end up replacing R and RP, probably on the same day as when R5 mk II and R6 mk II get announced.

Chip shortage could also be the primary reason for the high price of R5/R6, they are both around $500 - $1000 more expensive than their actual standing in the lineup indicates.

Those cameras were released in mid-2020. There was no chip shortage yet. The chip shortage took a solid year after the beginning of the pandemic to become a thing.

Canon maintains price points almost to the exclusion of all else. They have had camera bodies refreshed with inexplicably minor updates and at the same price point as the previous generation. If they make an adjustment to the price it is almost always very minor. The biggest price point adjustment I can recall is when they split the 40D update into a $1,200 50D and an $1,800 7D diverging from the typical $1,500 price.

Also, why would the R5II and R6II replace the R and RP when the R5 and R6 didn't? Canon doesn't replace a body and then keep selling the old body.

The various justifications for thinking the R5 and R6 match the 5D and the 6D come down to this: the numbers look the same.

Yes, agreed, the numbers follow the same format.

But regarding pricing, Canon is never tied to tradition, even if it looks like that was for decades; different times, different contexts, and situations, the EOS Film bodies were SLR and so were the DSLR bodies...more the same than different...but times change, the competition changes and Canon pricing will always reflect that.

In other words, the pricing patterns, and policies of the past do not necessarily work for the present.

The context of going from FD to EF, from SLR to DSLR is very different from the context of going from EOS DSLR to EOS mirrorless and going from EF to RF. One big change is market share...in the old days, a true camera was an EOS SLR, because there were no smartphones then. But today, the context is different because most replace the need for a "proper" camera such as a mirrorless or even a DSLR with a smartphone.

And what is the counterpart from the past for the EF world to the RF's R, and RP? There is no precedence that I can think of.

The R and maybe the RP is kindling to the fire...maybe there will be an RP Mark II, but I doubt that will happen for the R.

MAC wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

This is what I think will happen. Now that APS-C has come to the R system Canon won't be selling a sub $1k FF camera. The R will be priced near the top end APS-C camera and become the entry level FF body. The RP was how Canon offered a low cost entry point into the R system since they had no APS-C cameras to fill this roll. I won't be surprised if this camera gets an R8 or R9 designation.

The R5 and R6 at the time were world class so they upped the pricing by $500 each.

The R5 represents the 5D series in mirrorless

I doubt it, but if they abandon the R and RP then perhaps this is an attempt to carry over the price point of the 5DIV rather than creating a cheaper alternative to the 5DIV that the R was.

and the R6 represents a pro grade 6d in mirrorless with dual slots

This is a contradiction that is clearly not the case.  The 6D and RP were and always have been the cheapest full frame.  The similarity of numbers between the DSLR 6DII and R6 is a shift in naming schemes.  There is zero support for the idea that after releasing an RP and R at under $2,500 they would suddenly have zero options under that threshold.

Everybody needs to let go of the DSLR naming conventions.  Just like the G1X and G7X completely replaced the old G and S series naming conventions, so do the R names.

the 6 stayed and the 5 stayed representing previous DSLR's

these both could easily drop to $3500 and $2000 when they are no longer world class

Canon doesn't have cameras that drop this suddenly in price unless they fill that market segment with something else.

then how does Canon fit a FF below this? There is no previous DSLR # for this

6D.  The 6D used a full frame sensor that was well below the 5DIV and for a far lower price.

well, they keep the RP slow

they keep the R slow

but wait -- the R7 is fast -- R3 AF fast

anything below the R6 in FF will be slow

This would then suggest your earlier speculation is incorrect.  If they will keep the R and RP, which would also imply refreshing the line from time to time then you're contradicting your earlier statements.

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

MAC wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

This is what I think will happen. Now that APS-C has come to the R system Canon won't be selling a sub $1k FF camera. The R will be priced near the top end APS-C camera and become the entry level FF body. The RP was how Canon offered a low cost entry point into the R system since they had no APS-C cameras to fill this roll. I won't be surprised if this camera gets an R8 or R9 designation.

The R5 and R6 at the time were world class so they upped the pricing by $500 each.

The R5 represents the 5D series in mirrorless

I doubt it, but if they abandon the R and RP then perhaps this is an attempt to carry over the price point of the 5DIV rather than creating a cheaper alternative to the 5DIV that the R was.

and the R6 represents a pro grade 6d in mirrorless with dual slots

This is a contradiction that is clearly not the case. The 6D and RP were and always have been the cheapest full frame. The similarity of numbers between the DSLR 6DII and R6 is a shift in naming schemes. There is zero support for the idea that after releasing an RP and R at under $2,500 they would suddenly have zero options under that threshold.

Everybody needs to let go of the DSLR naming conventions. Just like the G1X and G7X completely replaced the old G and S series naming conventions, so do the R names.

the 6 stayed and the 5 stayed representing previous DSLR's

these both could easily drop to $3500 and $2000 when they are no longer world class

Canon doesn't have cameras that drop this suddenly in price unless they fill that market segment with something else.

then how does Canon fit a FF below this? There is no previous DSLR # for this

6D. The 6D used a full frame sensor that was well below the 5DIV and for a far lower price.

well, they keep the RP slow

they keep the R slow

but wait -- the R7 is fast -- R3 AF fast

anything below the R6 in FF will be slow

This would then suggest your earlier speculation is incorrect. If they will keep the R and RP, which would also imply refreshing the line from time to time then you're contradicting your earlier statements.

all wrong again

they will introduce a 30 mpxl R5-30 with 30 mpxl, R3 focus system, dual slots, speedy system -- $3000 - $3200

the R5 represented the 5dsr

the R5-30 represents the 5DIV

the R6 will be priced at ~ $2000 and represents the 6d and 7d mark2

the R will go away

the RP will get a slow version 2  --30 mpxl with one slot @ $1300

they will use speed and dual slots vs one slot to distinguish

they will not give a $1700 R version 2 with 30 mpxl faster speed than an R6 with 20 mpxl

sony is giving more mpxl for $2500 -- they need to address that by building the FF mirrorless 5dIV

MAC wrote:

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

they'll leave the RP where it is at and not make it faster

the RP is the entry they want into FF

the R6 is the issue at only 20 mpxl - they can't make an R faster at 30 mpxl that would compete with an R6

It wouldn't compete with the R6 anymore than the R already does.  It wouldn't compete if it had the cost saving measures of fewer dials and no joystick, no dual card slots, low fps, crop 4k video, etc.  Doesn't the RP get water in it if it is rained on?

The features that save cost and keep pros away.  Keep pros away and clutching their R6 and 5D while screaming "crippled!"

Fast subject finding and locking focus on the eyes is a "cat's out of the bag" technology.  Every on sensor focusing camera going forward will amazingly quickly lock focus on eyes.

ZX11 wrote:

MAC wrote:

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

they'll leave the RP where it is at and not make it faster

the RP is the entry they want into FF

the R6 is the issue at only 20 mpxl - they can't make an R faster at 30 mpxl that would compete with an R6

It wouldn't compete with the R6 anymore than the R already does. It wouldn't compete if it had the cost saving measures of fewer dials and no joystick, no dual card slots, low fps, crop 4k video, etc. Doesn't the RP get water in it if it is rained on?

The features that save cost and keep pros away. Keep pros away and clutching their R6 and 5D while screaming "crippled!"

Fast subject finding and locking focus on the eyes is a "cat's out of the bag" technology. Every on sensor focusing camera going forward will amazingly quickly lock focus on eyes.

all that crippling doesn't sound like an update that I'd buy

MAC wrote:

ZX11 wrote:

MAC wrote:

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

they'll leave the RP where it is at and not make it faster

the RP is the entry they want into FF

the R6 is the issue at only 20 mpxl - they can't make an R faster at 30 mpxl that would compete with an R6

It wouldn't compete with the R6 anymore than the R already does. It wouldn't compete if it had the cost saving measures of fewer dials and no joystick, no dual card slots, low fps, crop 4k video, etc. Doesn't the RP get water in it if it is rained on?

The features that save cost and keep pros away. Keep pros away and clutching their R6 and 5D while screaming "crippled!"

Fast subject finding and locking focus on the eyes is a "cat's out of the bag" technology. Every on sensor focusing camera going forward will amazingly quickly lock focus on eyes.

all that crippling doesn't sound like an update that I'd buy

All things I don't need production money spent on.  I'm not a pro.

The RmkII would have an updated 30+mp sensor, IBIS, and up to date AF.  People entering FF would buy it and get access to the new RF glass with the ability to use the whole area the lens gathers (non-crop sensor).  Likely worth an upgrade to R owners and RP owners.

But who knows.  It's Canon's game.

ZX11 wrote:

MAC wrote:

ZX11 wrote:

MAC wrote:

BBR5 wrote:

Given the offerings from Sony and Nikon, and the price difference between the RP and R6, an R "replacement" will likely occur. It would seem to be more a matter of when.

Another approach would be a single R/RP replacement priced near the R7 level. But that would leave no FF at an "entry" price point, where the RP currently sells well.

they'll leave the RP where it is at and not make it faster

the RP is the entry they want into FF

the R6 is the issue at only 20 mpxl - they can't make an R faster at 30 mpxl that would compete with an R6

It wouldn't compete with the R6 anymore than the R already does. It wouldn't compete if it had the cost saving measures of fewer dials and no joystick, no dual card slots, low fps, crop 4k video, etc. Doesn't the RP get water in it if it is rained on?

The features that save cost and keep pros away. Keep pros away and clutching their R6 and 5D while screaming "crippled!"

Fast subject finding and locking focus on the eyes is a "cat's out of the bag" technology. Every on sensor focusing camera going forward will amazingly quickly lock focus on eyes.

all that crippling doesn't sound like an update that I'd buy

All things I don't need production money spent on. I'm not a pro.

The RmkII would have an updated 30+mp sensor, IBIS, and up to date AF. People entering FF would buy it and get access to the new RF glass with the ability to use the whole area the lens gathers (non-crop sensor). Likely worth an upgrade to R owners and RP owners.

and with that new IBIS and Cat's eye R3 AF, some potential R6 buyers might go for it - reducing overall profitability ...

But who knows. It's Canon's game.

I think they'll be cautious of putting R3 AF in FF, unless it is north of $2K