RF 100-500 - trouble with autofocus and birds

TnSkiDude wrote:

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure on my r5 the 1.6 crop mode crops both the jpeg and the raw files. Pseudo crops ie. 16:9 etc. do only crop the jpeg.

I never use crop mode, but Crop mode saves a smaller file and crops the RAW output. Personally, I'd only use it if I only wanted to save the camera from having to write the larger file. Cropping in post is almost always better, IMO, but I understand some people prefer to see the output real-time.

Adam2 wrote:

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I'm fairly new to the R6. I rented the RF 100-500mm zoom for a trip to the lake. I was trying to get some good wildlife & bird shots. I struggled with birds in flight, and I'm curious if I was doing something wrong. I was in an area with almost no cell service or internet options, so I couldn't research anything at the time.

Generally, any object that was not moving (or moving very slowly) was fine. With birds in flight, the lens was often hunting to capture focus. I rarely got a shot off, and when I did it was not sharp at all. Mostly, The lens kept hunting the focal range and never finding the target in flight.

I had autofocus set to image tracking and set to "animals" not "people". I tried different image tracking AF settings (auto, 2, and 3), but that did not help. I had Image Stabilization "on" for both the lens and camera, if that matters. I flipped the switch on the lens to limit the autofocus to 3m-infinity, but that did not help either.

I was in daylight, so there was plenty of light.

I have a couple days left with the lens, so I'll do a little "goose hunting" at the local park. To be honest, I can't stand geese - but at least I can practice a bit.

Jeff

Having just returned from a shoot in extremely hot conditions, high 90’s to 100’s, many of my photos suffered from heat wave distortion ( see: https://fstoppers.com/education/warning-long-lens-shooters-heat-wave-distortion-40508). If this is the case, usually the image will appear overall soft with no true focus. Sometimes one can improve the images a bit in PP, though don’t expect miracles. Alternatively, shooting on hazy days with high humidity of dust particles in the air can produce similar effects. Perhaps this might have been a contributing factor in your circumstance?

That is a factor to look out for as well. Gets worse the further the subject is.

Distinctly Average wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I'm fairly new to the R6. I rented the RF 100-500mm zoom for a trip to the lake. I was trying to get some good wildlife & bird shots. I struggled with birds in flight, and I'm curious if I was doing something wrong. I was in an area with almost no cell service or internet options, so I couldn't research anything at the time.

Generally, any object that was not moving (or moving very slowly) was fine. With birds in flight, the lens was often hunting to capture focus. I rarely got a shot off, and when I did it was not sharp at all. Mostly, The lens kept hunting the focal range and never finding the target in flight.

I had autofocus set to image tracking and set to "animals" not "people". I tried different image tracking AF settings (auto, 2, and 3), but that did not help. I had Image Stabilization "on" for both the lens and camera, if that matters. I flipped the switch on the lens to limit the autofocus to 3m-infinity, but that did not help either.

I was in daylight, so there was plenty of light.

I have a couple days left with the lens, so I'll do a little "goose hunting" at the local park. To be honest, I can't stand geese - but at least I can practice a bit.

Jeff

Can you post some samples of the "failures?"

#1 rule: I recommend turning all image stabilization OFF for BIFs. Instead set a fast shutter speed of 1/2500 - 1/3200. Once you get more adept at BIFs, then you can mess with IS mode 2 for some slow shutter effects.

Why? I've been using IS with L lenses for BIF for years, in mode 1. It makes keeping your subject in the viewfinder so much easier. If it is easier to see for the human, it must also make it easier for any AF system to lock on.

IS works against your own tracking motion and induces blur.  IME it’s always best to track the bird as closely along its flight path as possible.  My keeper rates are always Much higher with IS disabled.  ESPECIALLY with the R5/R6.

Turn "Continuous AF" to OFF.

Would like to hear your reasoning behind that. What does it do?

Initial acquisition is very important when shooting BIFs.  I make it a practice to (pre)set the focus to appx the distance I expect the birds to appear, that way there’s a visible subject in the viewfinder to aid both you and the AF.

Having CAF enabled prevents this from happening.

R2

I like Servo AF Case 2 (modified to -2 "Tracking Sensitivity," and +2 "Accel/decel").

Set "Switching tracked subjects" to 0.

"Lens drive when AF impossible" set to ON.

Set the "Initial Servo AF pt" to AUTO. The camera will find your subject (eye/face/body) anywhere in the frame VERY quickly.

I like using the Electronic Shutter for BIFs (with Burst Mode) almost exclusively. You do give up a little IQ (12-bit RAWs vs 14-bit), but the view in the EVF is smoother that way. However for the smallest fastest birds, I'll use Mechanical Shutter (at H+). Yesterday I was shooting Tree Swallows in flight for an hour (until my arms got sore!). If you use eShutter on them, then you start to get rolling shutter effects and aliased wing edges. For larger "slower" birds (like you describe), then eShutter is awesome.

Track as perfectly as possible along the subject's flight path. Keep the subject in exactly the same place in the frame (don't let it wander around the frame!). Even at very high shutter speeds you can get motion blur when the subject moves around the frame (remember, AF only works in the Z Axis!).

Oh yeah, practice lots!

Uncropped full-size image. Click on "original size." EXIF is intact.

Try these suggestions (they work best for me so far). I shoot hundreds of BIFs every week. Best of luck!

R2

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R2D2 wrote:

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I'm fairly new to the R6. I rented the RF 100-500mm zoom for a trip to the lake. I was trying to get some good wildlife & bird shots. I struggled with birds in flight, and I'm curious if I was doing something wrong. I was in an area with almost no cell service or internet options, so I couldn't research anything at the time.

Generally, any object that was not moving (or moving very slowly) was fine. With birds in flight, the lens was often hunting to capture focus. I rarely got a shot off, and when I did it was not sharp at all. Mostly, The lens kept hunting the focal range and never finding the target in flight.

I had autofocus set to image tracking and set to "animals" not "people". I tried different image tracking AF settings (auto, 2, and 3), but that did not help. I had Image Stabilization "on" for both the lens and camera, if that matters. I flipped the switch on the lens to limit the autofocus to 3m-infinity, but that did not help either.

I was in daylight, so there was plenty of light.

I have a couple days left with the lens, so I'll do a little "goose hunting" at the local park. To be honest, I can't stand geese - but at least I can practice a bit.

Jeff

Can you post some samples of the "failures?"

#1 rule: I recommend turning all image stabilization OFF for BIFs. Instead set a fast shutter speed of 1/2500 - 1/3200. Once you get more adept at BIFs, then you can mess with IS mode 2 for some slow shutter effects.

Turn "Continuous AF" to OFF.

I like Servo AF Case 2 (modified to -2 "Tracking Sensitivity," and +2 "Accel/decel").

Set "Switching tracked subjects" to 0.

"Lens drive when AF impossible" set to ON.

Set the "Initial Servo AF pt" to AUTO. The camera will find your subject (eye/face/body) anywhere in the frame VERY quickly.

I like using the Electronic Shutter for BIFs (with Burst Mode) almost exclusively. You do give up a little IQ (12-bit RAWs vs 14-bit), but the view in the EVF is smoother that way. However for the smallest fastest birds, I'll use Mechanical Shutter (at H+). Yesterday I was shooting Tree Swallows in flight for an hour (until my arms got sore!). If you use eShutter on them, then you start to get rolling shutter effects and aliased wing edges. For larger "slower" birds (like you describe), then eShutter is awesome.

Track as perfectly as possible along the subject's flight path. Keep the subject in exactly the same place in the frame (don't let it wander around the frame!). Even at very high shutter speeds you can get motion blur when the subject moves around the frame (remember, AF only works in the Z Axis!).

Oh yeah, practice lots!

Uncropped full-size image. Click on "original size." EXIF is intact.

Try these suggestions (they work best for me so far). I shoot hundreds of BIFs every week. Best of luck!

R2

Could you please tell me where to turn "Continuous AF" to OFF in the R7?

R2D2 wrote:

Jeffrey_L wrote:

Here are a couple of images that came out blurry.

Many thanks for posting these! Lots going on. Usually when there's a major failing there's more than one factor involved. That's the case here.

The goose does appear to be back-focused a bit (as mentioned it's common over water). But the bigger issue is the too-slow shutter speed (lots of motion blur evident), exacerbated by you not tracking the subject perfectly. Part of this could also be caused by the image stabilization (if you had it turned on). Less motion blur means better AF results!

I'd suggest trying the settings I posted earlier (to use as a baseline). When you're out shooting, it helps to preset the focus to about the distance that you expect the birds to appear. If nothing else, infinity focus works better than closest focus (and be sure to use the lens' focus limiter). In difficult circumstances it helps to wait a tiny bit (until you are tracking well) before initiating AF.

I like using the "Auto" Initial Servo AF setting for BIFs. It can do much better than I can for initial AF acquisition. I only use the other setting when I have to pick the subject out of a group.

AF picked up on the much more contrasty bushes in the background. If Face/Eye detect did not lock focus properly right away, then use the Spot AF and aim at the bird's legs. Servo AF loves contrasty vertical objects. With this shot I might have even used the Spot AF first off, since the Eye/Face AF boxes can indicate eye/face lock, but the camera still locks onto the nice contrasty back branches (this does happen).

Honestly, the biggest problem was when autofocus would hunt and not allow me to get a shot off at all.

I shoot with exactly the same combo. I find that I get a much better hit rate when I turn OFF Exposure Simulation. The camera's AF uses this (brighter) image/data for focusing.

Be sure to report back when you get another chance to get out. Best of luck!

R2

That last shot would be simplicity itself to a bog standard DSLR surely with single spot focus? Is it getting over complicated?  Can you disable most of the fancy AI stuff?
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