RF 100-500 - trouble with autofocus and birds

I'm fairly new to the R6. I rented the RF 100-500mm zoom for a trip to the lake. I was trying to get some good wildlife & bird shots. I struggled with birds in flight, and I'm curious if I was doing something wrong. I was in an area with almost no cell service or internet options, so I couldn't research anything at the time.

Generally, any object that was not moving (or moving very slowly) was fine. With birds in flight, the lens was often hunting to capture focus. I rarely got a shot off, and when I did it was not sharp at all. Mostly, The lens kept hunting the focal range and never finding the target in flight.

I had autofocus set to image tracking and set to "animals" not "people". I tried different image tracking AF settings (auto, 2, and 3), but that did not help. I had Image Stabilization "on" for both the lens and camera, if that matters. I flipped the switch on the lens to limit the autofocus to 3m-infinity, but that did not help either.

I was in daylight, so there was plenty of light.

I have a couple days left with the lens, so I'll do a little "goose hunting" at the local park. To be honest, I can't stand geese - but at least I can practice a bit.

Jeff

What type of birds and how far away were you?

Something small and fast like a swallow will be very difficult to track or pick up but something like a swan, ducks or geese you should be able to pick them up as long as they are close enough for the sensor to distinguish them from the background.

There were plenty of small birds (swallows, finches, etc.), but I knew they were too fast and small to capture. That didn't bother me. I could barely follow them with my eyes!

I had issues with bigger birds though - geese, eagles, osprey. That surprised me.

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I had autofocus set to image tracking and set to "animals" not "people". I tried different image tracking AF settings (auto, 2, and 3), but that did not help. I had Image Stabilization "on" for both the lens and camera, if that matters. I flipped the switch on the lens to limit the autofocus to 3m-infinity, but that did not help either.

Make sure you are not using IS mode 1 and don't have initial-focus point set to something small (allow camera to find the subject).

Try electronic shutter (with risk of rolling shutter, of course) as there is no blackout and seems to keep on the subject once it has it.

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I'm fairly new to the R6. I rented the RF 100-500mm zoom for a trip to the lake. I was trying to get some good wildlife & bird shots. I struggled with birds in flight, and I'm curious if I was doing something wrong. I was in an area with almost no cell service or internet options, so I couldn't research anything at the time.

Generally, any object that was not moving (or moving very slowly) was fine. With birds in flight, the lens was often hunting to capture focus. I rarely got a shot off, and when I did it was not sharp at all. Mostly, The lens kept hunting the focal range and never finding the target in flight.

I had autofocus set to image tracking and set to "animals" not "people". I tried different image tracking AF settings (auto, 2, and 3), but that did not help. I had Image Stabilization "on" for both the lens and camera, if that matters. I flipped the switch on the lens to limit the autofocus to 3m-infinity, but that did not help either.

I was in daylight, so there was plenty of light.

I have a couple days left with the lens, so I'll do a little "goose hunting" at the local park. To be honest, I can't stand geese - but at least I can practice a bit.

Jeff

Can you post some samples of the "failures?"

#1 rule: I recommend turning all image stabilization OFF for BIFs. Instead set a fast shutter speed of 1/2500 - 1/3200. Once you get more adept at BIFs, then you can mess with IS mode 2 for some slow shutter effects.

Turn "Continuous AF" to OFF.

I like Servo AF Case 2 (modified to -2 "Tracking Sensitivity," and +2 "Accel/decel").

Set "Switching tracked subjects" to 0.

"Lens drive when AF impossible" set to ON.

Set the "Initial Servo AF pt" to AUTO. The camera will find your subject (eye/face/body) anywhere in the frame VERY quickly.

I like using the Electronic Shutter for BIFs (with Burst Mode) almost exclusively. You do give up a little IQ (12-bit RAWs vs 14-bit), but the view in the EVF is smoother that way. However for the smallest fastest birds, I'll use Mechanical Shutter (at H+). Yesterday I was shooting Tree Swallows in flight for an hour (until my arms got sore!). If you use eShutter on them, then you start to get rolling shutter effects and aliased wing edges. For larger "slower" birds (like you describe), then eShutter is awesome.

Track as perfectly as possible along the subject's flight path. Keep the subject in exactly the same place in the frame (don't let it wander around the frame!). Even at very high shutter speeds you can get motion blur when the subject moves around the frame (remember, AF only works in the Z Axis!).

Oh yeah, practice lots!

Uncropped full-size image. Click on "original size." EXIF is intact.

Try these suggestions (they work best for me so far). I shoot hundreds of BIFs every week. Best of luck!

R2

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I'm fairly new to the R6. I rented the RF 100-500mm zoom for a trip to the lake. I was trying to get some good wildlife & bird shots. I struggled with birds in flight, and I'm curious if I was doing something wrong. I was in an area with almost no cell service or internet options, so I couldn't research anything at the time.

Generally, any object that was not moving (or moving very slowly) was fine. With birds in flight, the lens was often hunting to capture focus. I rarely got a shot off, and when I did it was not sharp at all. Mostly, The lens kept hunting the focal range and never finding the target in flight.

I had autofocus set to image tracking and set to "animals" not "people". I tried different image tracking AF settings (auto, 2, and 3), but that did not help. I had Image Stabilization "on" for both the lens and camera, if that matters. I flipped the switch on the lens to limit the autofocus to 3m-infinity, but that did not help either.

I was in daylight, so there was plenty of light.

I have a couple days left with the lens, so I'll do a little "goose hunting" at the local park. To be honest, I can't stand geese - but at least I can practice a bit.

Jeff

Are you using back button focus? If so, I have mine set so that for one button (AF-ON) I choose the Initial Servo AF point. And the other button (*), it's auto so the camera tries to find the bird.

If there are any trees or branches in the background that are close enough that they are not blurred out, I manually choose my Initial AF point to lock in the bird then the camera's tracking takes over. I just make sure that my AF point is in the center of the frame, makes it easier to track the bird, you can push down on the joystick to center it at any time. If I'm shooting against a blue sky or the trees are far enough from the bird then I use my other Auto button.  I find that I end up using the Initial AF Point button 70% of the time.

I was using back button, with one button as single point AF and one as subject tracking. I'm wondering if I was getting too many issues with trees or water in the background. I will try to upload a couple shots over the weekend for some feedback.

Thanks very much for the suggestions!

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I was using back button, with one button as single point AF and one as subject tracking. I'm wondering if I was getting too many issues with trees or water in the background. I will try to upload a couple shots over the weekend for some feedback.

Thanks very much for the suggestions!

I have my Single Point AF mapped to my DOF button that I trigger using my ring finger. I suggest you try and set one of your back buttons to Initial Servo AF Point and see if if you like it.

Jeffrey_L wrote:

I was using back button, with one button as single point AF and one as subject tracking. I'm wondering if I was getting too many issues with trees or water in the background. I will try to upload a couple shots over the weekend for some feedback.

Thanks very much for the suggestions!

You many need to change the tracking sensitivity.

My R6 with the RF 100-500 seems almost magical for BIF. I followed Brent Hall’s suggestions for AF settings and have pretty much stuck with those for a year. Here’s a link:

https://youtu.be/5l5feoIUmdI

Here are a couple of images that came out blurry. Honestly, the biggest problem was when autofocus would hunt and not allow me to get a shot off at all.

Jeffrey_L wrote:

Here are a couple of images that came out blurry. Honestly, the biggest problem was when autofocus would hunt and not allow me to get a shot off at all.

The first shot, I can see that the focus point is on the lake and not on the goose. I think it's all those sparkly highlights on the lake that is throwing off the camera, I've also had a trouble getting birds in focus with that exact same kind of lighting. And the goose doesn't fill the frame so much so that makes it harder. Setting the initial point on this shot could have helped. The second shot, nothing is in focus, the shot went off before your lens had time to finish hunting, don't you have other shots in the same burst that are in focus? It seems like the crane is big enough in the frame that the camera should have been able to find it. The 3rd shot I think is in focus, but hard to tell as it's a 12800 ISO shot. Zoomed out it looks fine, but zoomed in, it's very grainy so I can't tell where the focus point is.

Dan-Z wrote:

The first shot, I can see that the focus point is on the lake and not on the goose. I think it's all those sparkly highlights on the lake that is throwing off the camera, I've also had a trouble getting birds in focus with that exact same kind of lighting. And the goose doesn't fill the frame so much so that makes it harder. Setting the initial point on this shot could have helped. The second shot, nothing is in focus, the shot went off before your lens had time to finish hunting, don't you have other shots in the same burst that are in focus? It seems like the crane is big enough in the frame that the camera should have been able to find it. The 3rd shot I think is in focus, but hard to tell as it's a 12800 ISO shot. Zoomed out it looks fine, but zoomed in, it's very grainy so I can't tell where the focus point is.

Thanks, Dan. What you said about #1 and #3 is what I was expecting to hear.

The 2nd shot is a good example of what I was experiencing - the burst I took never captured an in-focus shot. This was the closest one. The rest were even more blurry. I'm willing to admit it might be my own lack of experience with tracking moving birds, but I was also a little surprised (not in a good way) that I had more rejects than keepers.

Jeffrey_L wrote:

Here are a couple of images that came out blurry.

Many thanks for posting these! Lots going on. Usually when there's a major failing there's more than one factor involved. That's the case here.

The goose does appear to be back-focused a bit (as mentioned it's common over water).  But the bigger issue is the too-slow shutter speed (lots of motion blur evident), exacerbated by you not tracking the subject perfectly.  Part of this could also be caused by the image stabilization (if you had it turned on).  Less motion blur means better AF results!

I'd suggest trying the settings I posted earlier (to use as a baseline).  When you're out shooting, it helps to preset the focus to about the distance that you expect the birds to appear.  If nothing else, infinity focus works better than closest focus (and be sure to use the lens' focus limiter).  In difficult circumstances it helps to wait a tiny bit (until you are tracking well) before initiating AF.

I like using the "Auto" Initial Servo AF setting for BIFs.  It can do much better than I can for initial AF acquisition.  I only use the other setting when I have to pick the subject out of a group.

AF picked up on the much more contrasty bushes in the background.  If Face/Eye detect did not lock focus properly right away, then use the Spot AF and aim at the bird's legs.  Servo AF loves contrasty vertical objects.  With this shot I might have even used the Spot AF first off, since the Eye/Face AF boxes can indicate eye/face lock, but the camera still locks onto the nice contrasty back branches (this does happen).

Honestly, the biggest problem was when autofocus would hunt and not allow me to get a shot off at all.

I shoot with exactly the same combo.  I find that I get a much better hit rate when I turn OFF Exposure Simulation.  The camera's AF uses this (brighter) image/data for focusing.

Be sure to report back when you get another chance to get out.  Best of luck!

R2

Jeffrey_L wrote:

Dan-Z wrote:

The first shot, I can see that the focus point is on the lake and not on the goose. I think it's all those sparkly highlights on the lake that is throwing off the camera, I've also had a trouble getting birds in focus with that exact same kind of lighting. And the goose doesn't fill the frame so much so that makes it harder. Setting the initial point on this shot could have helped. The second shot, nothing is in focus, the shot went off before your lens had time to finish hunting, don't you have other shots in the same burst that are in focus? It seems like the crane is big enough in the frame that the camera should have been able to find it. The 3rd shot I think is in focus, but hard to tell as it's a 12800 ISO shot. Zoomed out it looks fine, but zoomed in, it's very grainy so I can't tell where the focus point is.

Thanks, Dan. What you said about #1 and #3 is what I was expecting to hear.

The 2nd shot is a good example of what I was experiencing - the burst I took never captured an in-focus shot. This was the closest one. The rest were even more blurry. I'm willing to admit it might be my own lack of experience with tracking moving birds, but I was also a little surprised (not in a good way) that I had more rejects than keepers.

I'm pretty much inline with Dan's assessment. The first is a simply AF miss. The second may be a number of factors. I see in that one is was obviously low light with a TC on and it was underexposed. I personally think any two of those factors are enough to create AF problems, but all three are going to make your job difficult. Probably most important in that example, I've noticed if I underexpose in lower light the AF drops off significantly, so my suggest for that is to bite the bullet and dial up the ISO or accept the reality of the situation.

On the last example, it seems as though it is working as expected. That was low light and high ISO with a TC and what appears to be a little bit of a crop. IQ is not going to be any good in that situation.

So in review, it is possible there is a small equipment problem if this is occurring all the time, but the examples do show some reasonable factors for missing focus.

Jeffrey_L wrote:

Here are a couple of images that came out blurry. Honestly, the biggest problem was when autofocus would hunt and not allow me to get a shot off at all.

man this one looks very beautiful , almost a keeper. as R2D2 said the shutter speed is too slow . maybe if you had faster shutter speed this would be acceptable . the focus is slightly back focus . maybe slightly move ahead against the bird. i believe you shoot in burst & by the time the bird moves into focus plane you should get some keeper . but if you're not get any keeper then the slow shutter is the culprit.

edit : also dont be afraid to shoot in 1.6 crop (Raw + jpeg). the jpeg would be cropped but the RAW is still in full size . the crop makes it easier for you & the camera to see & follow the bird .

rreichar wrote:

My R6 with the RF 100-500 seems almost magical for BIF. I followed Brent Hall’s suggestions for AF settings and have pretty much stuck with those for a year. Here’s a link:

https://youtu.be/5l5feoIUmdI

This new tech is very different from DSLR's. With the R system I have moved from the BBF and put AF back on the shutter button. Now I use BBF for pre-focus only. AF-On is set to zone AF and the * is set single point. Pre focus is the key to this system. Zone is great for BIF if there aren't many distractions. You don't need the eye or head in focus to start. You just need the body in focus and then Face/Eye will do the rest. Single AF if there is a lot of other stuff in the frame.

This is a Canon (R3) and Sony shoot out but watch how The Fro uses expansion AF to pre-focus if the camera can't find his intended target. Handy if you have two or more subjects in the frame and you are switching back and forth between the them.

Minutes 2 to 8 are good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrEWOZYgDw

I've never had an issue with keep the shutter half pressed during burst shooting sequences. I did that the entire life of my 7D but went to BBF with my 7D2 and now I'm back to the shutter. It does not matter if I take my finger off the shutter because I start out on Face/Eye so the white pre-focus square starts looking for an eye by just tapping the shutter. If I lift my finger off the shutter the white pre-focus square kicks in and maintains focus.

To the OP. If you targets are far set the lens focus distance range to 3m-00. Make sure the the cam is not set to continuous AF. That is for movies. As suggested set Tracking Sensitivity to -2.

If you use IS mode 2 is for subjects moving horizontally.