Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
DNature
DNature Regular Member • Posts: 310
Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?
2

Hi,

I bought a GH6 mainly to take videos. I have two lenses, an Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO and a Olympus 60mm f/2.8 Macro.

I have shot most of my videos in 4K 10-bit 25fps 4:2:2 All-I with Dynamic Range Boost ON. When I have shot landscape videos with the GH6 in V-Log using the Olympus 12-40 and Nisi Variable ND filter, either the 1.5-5 stop or the 5-9 stop depending on how bright it is.
I set the exposure to around 42 IRE or slightly brighter for mid tones using the waveform monitor and check I am not overexposing the highlights.

I have noticed that anything in the distance with infinity focus tends to look a bit soft, like its out of focus almost, even though on the camera peaking it shows that it is in focus. I have used it with focus peaking set to 0 and i have tried -1 to try and be more precise with focusing and actually see my subject without everything being in a red outline and hard to see in the screen.

I use the back button to get focus then manually adjust if needed as I don't use autofocus, especially not for landscapes.

This was taken at 12mm f/5.6 and all I did was put Panasonics V-Log to Rec 709 LUT on it, added a slight saturation boost and corrected the WB in Adobe Premiere Pro and it doesn't look that good to me and it looks a bit soft. I know this is a screenshot and a bit compressed but it is very close to how the video looks (View at 100% to see what I mean)

This image shows the same settings and again, it doesn't look that sharp either.

I am wondering what the cause could be and also what the diffraction limit of the GH6 is and if that could be a factor? Closer up shots don't look as bad, the issue just becomes noticeable in landscapes and I have also tried f/4-6.3 and zooming in to 14-18mm on the Olympus 12-40 but it doesn't seem to do much to make the image less soft looking.

I have shot videos on my GH5 in V-Log L using the same lenses and I think they are a bit sharper? I like the colors and the dynamic range more on the GH6 though. Can anyone help?

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If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 DNature's gear list:DNature's gear list
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SOTOK
SOTOK Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

GH6 requires growing comfortable with high ISO shooting and sorted ND filters.  Some ND filters can cause softness in the image.  There are banding issues reported with this sensor against light sources so compose accordingly.

Danielvr Veteran Member • Posts: 6,625
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

It might be simple atmospheric distortion. Try taking some simple full resolution stills, no filters, from a tripod, using self-timer or a shutter delay, carefully manually focused, and see how those turn out.

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Tom Axford Veteran Member • Posts: 9,605
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

That is just the way V-Log is.  It is not designed for viewing without proper processing.

"What is V-Log?"

Interceptor121 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,048
GH5 Vlog vs now
1

Vlog in the GH5 is just digital compression some sharpening is still there

from the S series and GH5M2 any sharpening has been removed to give a more organic look

which means at time you need to sharpen in post

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Samuel Dilworth
Samuel Dilworth Senior Member • Posts: 1,285
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

DNature wrote:

I have noticed that anything in the distance with infinity focus tends to look a bit soft, like its out of focus almost, even though on the camera peaking it shows that it is in focus. I have used it with focus peaking set to 0 and i have tried -1 to try and be more precise with focusing and actually see my subject without everything being in a red outline and hard to see in the screen.

I use the back button to get focus then manually adjust if needed as I don't use autofocus, especially not for landscapes.

Focus peaking, at least Panasonic’s implementation of it, isn’t suitable for this kind of critical focusing. Either punch in for precise manual focus or use autofocus once before each shot.

You’ll need to add plenty of careful sharpening if you want the crunchy look of a typical digital-camera still.

Tom Axford Veteran Member • Posts: 9,605
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?
1

DNature wrote:

Hi,

I bought a GH6 mainly to take videos. I have two lenses, an Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO and a Olympus 60mm f/2.8 Macro.

I have shot most of my videos in 4K 10-bit 25fps 4:2:2 All-I with Dynamic Range Boost ON. When I have shot landscape videos with the GH6 in V-Log using the Olympus 12-40 and Nisi Variable ND filter, either the 1.5-5 stop or the 5-9 stop depending on how bright it is.
I set the exposure to around 42 IRE or slightly brighter for mid tones using the waveform monitor and check I am not overexposing the highlights.

I have noticed that anything in the distance with infinity focus tends to look a bit soft, like its out of focus almost, even though on the camera peaking it shows that it is in focus. I have used it with focus peaking set to 0 and i have tried -1 to try and be more precise with focusing and actually see my subject without everything being in a red outline and hard to see in the screen.

I use the back button to get focus then manually adjust if needed as I don't use autofocus, especially not for landscapes.

This was taken at 12mm f/5.6 and all I did was put Panasonics V-Log to Rec 709 LUT on it, added a slight saturation boost and corrected the WB in Adobe Premiere Pro and it doesn't look that good to me and it looks a bit soft. I know this is a screenshot and a bit compressed but it is very close to how the video looks (View at 100% to see what I mean)

This image shows the same settings and again, it doesn't look that sharp either.

I am wondering what the cause could be and also what the diffraction limit of the GH6 is and if that could be a factor? Closer up shots don't look as bad, the issue just becomes noticeable in landscapes and I have also tried f/4-6.3 and zooming in to 14-18mm on the Olympus 12-40 but it doesn't seem to do much to make the image less soft looking.

I have shot videos on my GH5 in V-Log L using the same lenses and I think they are a bit sharper? I like the colors and the dynamic range more on the GH6 though. Can anyone help?

V-Log is designed to give low-contrast images.  Low-contrast images look softer than high-contrast images.

Here is your first image processed to increase the contrast and add some sharpening. (I haven't bothered to try to get the colours right).  It now looks much crisper.

DNature
OP DNature Regular Member • Posts: 310
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?
1

Thanks everyone for the replies. I know about V-Log not being as sharp and having to add some sharpening in post. I know that is far better than having the image already sharp and not being able to reduce the sharpness in editing if it looks too sharp. I always check my focusing with manual focus assist to make sure I am in focus before taking a video.

I found out by editing a couple of my videos in Premiere Pro and using Neat Video noise reduction to reduce some of the shadow noise, its sharpness settings are a lot better than just adding normal sharpness or an unsharp mask and gives me a much better result.

SOTOK wrote:

GH6 requires growing comfortable with high ISO shooting and sorted ND filters. Some ND filters can cause softness in the image. There are banding issues reported with this sensor against light sources so compose accordingly.

I know about the light streaking issue in high contrast scenes and so far in the 50+ videos I have taken, it hasn't been an issue, but I mostly shoot outdoors in daylight so it shouldn't be an issue, still the chance it could happen isn't great though.

-- hide signature --

If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 DNature's gear list:DNature's gear list
Canon EOS 400D Canon EOS 500D Canon EOS 600D Panasonic GH5 Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 +9 more
SOTOK
SOTOK Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

DNature wrote:

Thanks everyone for the replies. I know about V-Log not being as sharp and having to add some sharpening in post. I know that is far better than having the image already sharp and not being able to reduce the sharpness in editing if it looks too sharp. I always check my focusing with manual focus assist to make sure I am in focus before taking a video.

I found out by editing a couple of my videos in Premiere Pro and using Neat Video noise reduction to reduce some of the shadow noise, its sharpness settings are a lot better than just adding normal sharpness or an unsharp mask and gives me a much better result.

SOTOK wrote:

GH6 requires growing comfortable with high ISO shooting and sorted ND filters. Some ND filters can cause softness in the image. There are banding issues reported with this sensor against light sources so compose accordingly.

I know about the light streaking issue in high contrast scenes and so far in the 50+ videos I have taken, it hasn't been an issue, but I mostly shoot outdoors in daylight so it shouldn't be an issue, still the chance it could happen isn't great though.

How long is the process for Neat image?  For a 1 minute clip, it is quick?

DNature
OP DNature Regular Member • Posts: 310
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

SOTOK wrote:

DNature wrote:

Thanks everyone for the replies. I know about V-Log not being as sharp and having to add some sharpening in post. I know that is far better than having the image already sharp and not being able to reduce the sharpness in editing if it looks too sharp. I always check my focusing with manual focus assist to make sure I am in focus before taking a video.

I found out by editing a couple of my videos in Premiere Pro and using Neat Video noise reduction to reduce some of the shadow noise, its sharpness settings are a lot better than just adding normal sharpness or an unsharp mask and gives me a much better result.

SOTOK wrote:

GH6 requires growing comfortable with high ISO shooting and sorted ND filters. Some ND filters can cause softness in the image. There are banding issues reported with this sensor against light sources so compose accordingly.

I know about the light streaking issue in high contrast scenes and so far in the 50+ videos I have taken, it hasn't been an issue, but I mostly shoot outdoors in daylight so it shouldn't be an issue, still the chance it could happen isn't great though.

How long is the process for Neat image? For a 1 minute clip, it is quick?

My PC is:
Windows 10
Asus Prime Z390-P Motherboard
Intel I7 9700K 3.0GHz (Overclocked to 4.5Ghz)
64 GB DDR4 RAM
Nvidia RTX 3070 Graphics Card
Seagate FireCuda 530 1TB
500GB NVME drive (I forget which make)
And among other external storage: 2 external 8TB Seagate drives and 2 external 10TB external Seagate drives. (I need to upgrade my storage soon)

With that setup, with a 40 second GH6 4K 10-bit 422 ALL-I video imported to Adobe Premiere Pro with Neat Video added and Lumetri Color added to the clip to add a LUT and do minor white balance and color corrections, it is too slow to play back with neat video enabled. The clip preview plays back fine when neat video is not enabled, so I guess you would need a better CPU than I have that can handle preview playback in Premiere Pro.

Rendering that clip to a Quicktime 4K ProRes 422 HQ with maximum bit depth and maximum render and 16-bit checked with 96Khz 24-bit audio, that took around 30 minutes in Adobe Media Encoder 2022 which was a lot faster than the over 1 hour 40 minutes it took when I had a Gefores RTX 2060 Super graphics card.

I haven't yet tried rendering to H.264 but I assume it won't take as long but it looks like you need a fast PC to playback and render with Neat Video added to the clip in Premiere Pro and I had just added mine to one 40 second clip. I haven't yet got to the point where I am ready to edit and render my 30+ minute videos with more added effects, music, voice overs, text etc...

The slowness of Neat Video on previous Premiere Pro versions was a known issue: https://www.neatvideo.com/support/known-issues/premiere-sr
--

If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 DNature's gear list:DNature's gear list
Canon EOS 400D Canon EOS 500D Canon EOS 600D Panasonic GH5 Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 +9 more
aayjay
aayjay Contributing Member • Posts: 655
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

I have the GH6 and it is plenty sharp in all video modes. I only use Vlog. There's no problem with diffraction unless your f-stop is incredibly high... 16 and above if that while taking video (which is lower resolution than stills).

99% sure it's your ND filter. Do a test in low-light conditions w/o your filter on the lens and see how it compares. ND filters can also look good on some lenses and cause very little resolution loss while on other lenses it looks bad. (The focal length of the lens, its aperture and quality of the filter all play into this.)

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DNature
OP DNature Regular Member • Posts: 310
Re: Landscapes look a bit soft GH6 V-Log?

aayjay wrote:

I have the GH6 and it is plenty sharp in all video modes. I only use Vlog. There's no problem with diffraction unless your f-stop is incredibly high... 16 and above if that while taking video (which is lower resolution than stills).

99% sure it's your ND filter. Do a test in low-light conditions w/o your filter on the lens and see how it compares. ND filters can also look good on some lenses and cause very little resolution loss while on other lenses it looks bad. (The focal length of the lens, its aperture and quality of the filter all play into this.)

It is possible, I have really only used the NiSi 5-9 stop Variable ND for the few landscpae videos I have made as my other, the NiSi 1.5-5 stop Variable ND wasn't dark enough and while I haven't tested it for landscape videos as it doesn't go dark enough, when I have used it for everything else it has seems OK on my Olympus 12-40mm (although I am not sure if another filter would be better or not), so maybe it is the 5-9 stop filter adding potential softness to the image?

The problem I have was that I can't really afford to spend money on a bunch of various filters to see which ones worked the best or not and there are very few, if any I could find online of 4K (even in 5.7K) of videos taken in V-Log on the GH6 showing landscape shots as most of the footage seems there is something closer up in the shot, so I couldn't tell if what I was getting was normal or not as I had nothing to compare with.

I would like to get this sorted soon as possible since the videos I am making are mostly of wild plants and insects and I only have a certain amount of time to record them before its past the time of year to find them and I need to include wide landscape shots.

I got the NiSi Variable ND filters because they didn't have the X when stopped down and didn't have a color cast I could see and being variable and not fixed, I could dial in my exposure to how I wanted it.

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If find that the best way to live life, is not in the pursuit of material possessions, but its to live in the pursuit of making positive differences to both other people and to the planet as a whole and if you can get others to do similar or the same, so much the better.

 DNature's gear list:DNature's gear list
Canon EOS 400D Canon EOS 500D Canon EOS 600D Panasonic GH5 Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 +9 more
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