Significant Motion Blur, Canon R6. Caused by IBIS? Wide angle only.

electronicsenthusiast wrote:

Mr F48 wrote:

Quarkcharmed wrote:

electronicsenthusiast wrote:

Quarkcharmed wrote:

Are you on the most recent firmware? There was a bug where the first shot in a series could be blurry because of IBIS. It was fixed at some point.

Overall, electronic shutter on the R6 and the R5 has a very limited use IMHO and is not recommended as a default shooting mode as it has too many limitations. It's best to be used in special cases such as when you actually need the silent shutter or high speed continuous shooting etc.

I used v1.5.2, including while shooting these samples, which is the most current as of 3/17/22, and even today.

I will default to the mechanical shutter.

The mechanical shutter will cause shutter shock at the shutter speeds you were using in your photos posted in this thread. Electronic first curtain shutter is the default one.

Can confirm, unfortunately.

My R lived in mechanical shutter mode, since the issue was not nearly as prevalent. With the R6, I have to use 1st curtain below 1/200 or limit the auto ISO to a minimum of 1/200

😲

With my R5 @ 105mm I'm fine at 1/250th, so that's the minimum shutter speed for the C-mode for Av + full mechanical shutter. I use that C mode when shooting at wide apertures.

Toothwalker wrote:

Bas Hamstra wrote:

Double image is a tell tale sign of shutter shock. In fact the shutter shock may interact with the image stabilization in a bad way. This looks a lot like the first generations of MFT camera's that suffered from this. I had my share of it with the EPL-1 until I decided to turn image stabilzation off. Like totally and always. That got rid of most of the issues.

I mean the shutter is open before the take and then in an *instant* it must CLOSE-OPEN-CLOSE and this causes a really really hefty vibration. A shockwave.

I am not sure that SS is causing your issues, but it's a possibility. Could you try to turn off IS (just as an exeriment) and see if that makes a difference?

Kind regards,

Bas

I did test with IS turned off before, and the issue disappeared. Certainly when using a tripod. For handheld photography there is of course the increased risk of blur due to regular camera shake.

I use the first curtain electronic shutter by default, which shouldn't cause as hefty a shockwave was the mechanical shutter. And even if the shutter plays a role, it should not affect the first image of a series more than subsequent ones - or should it?

Here are two test images to illustrate the issue. They are raw files converted to JPEG with DPP - without any sharpening or other post-processing.

Electronic first curtain *should* take care of most of it. But 500mm at 1/80s? That's not a good example I would say, though IS has gotten better it still works "statistically", there will be a statistical improvement but you can't expect it to work perfect for each and every shot. Which is happening here.

Anyway shutter shock is mostly bound to certain shutter speeds, for older gens MFT it was 1/160 where nearly all of the trouble was. Time and again I would notice a double (ghost) image, check the shutter speed and always find it was close to 1/160. Are you seeing that strong correlation too?

Bas

If it's shutter shock, it should be fairly easily reproducible.

It would also help to know which way the shutter travels.  It's easy to find out just by panning on a subject with vertical lines.  This problem starts at the bottom of the image.

electronicsenthusiast wrote:

I found this article describing the issue. First image in the series is what I have noticed as well; I most commonly see the problem with shutter speeds between 1/60 and 1/200.

https://www.diyphotography.net/ibis-bug-reported-in-the-canon-eos-r5-r6/

I’m the one that reported that issue and thankfully Canon fixed the issue in a firmware update some time ago, at least in my R5. And my problem was visible only at slow shutter speeds.

The pictures shown by the OP here show a much more obvious issue. I can speculate for it being related to a bad synchronisation between ibis and the lens IS. 
My only Lens with IS is a Tamron 35-150 f2.8-4, and I noticed that ibis is not really working with this lens, and I can shoot at much slower shutter speeds with others lenses in the range only using ibis than with this Tamron with its VC system. 
I think, maybe EF Canon lenses try to use ibis together with IBIS, but maybe the firmware is not well optimised as for native RF lenses for both stabilisation systems to work together.

Did you send the camera to Canon for repairs? What is the outcome of your inquire?

Thanks,

Armando

electronicsenthusiast wrote:

UPDATE

Thanks. I'm keen to follow the outcome

the issue is present on RF lenses as well.

If you can showcase that, specific lens issue theory can't explain it.

I guess the first step is for Canon to reproduce it in any setup. Till then it's hard

electronicsenthusiast wrote:

If you can showcase that, specific lens issue theory can't explain it.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant showcase to Canon. Because things get serious only when they can reproduce and acknowledge. Ideally a repeatable test they can run and confirm. That way they will not go down the specific lens fix

When the IBIS wobble issue was discovered, juanmaasecas did exactly that. The effort is documented in this thread - https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64972492

Took some time, but once Canon acknowledged and some other sites picked that up, a fix came in the next firmware update

Thanks for letting us know. I think that issues with canon lenses and cameras are underreported on fora like this. I love Canon, but they are not perfect (nothing is).

Tell us about the tests when you finish. Thanks again,

Armando