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The diameters of EFM and RF mounts

Started 10 months ago | Polls
MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 18,487
Re: The diameters of EFM and RF mounts

R2D2 wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

The M occupies a niche that cannot, will not, (not in anyone's wildest dreams!) be filled by a crop RF body. ...and to your point it is the diameter of the EF-M mount that actually guarantees this!

I have some serious doubts about this. Time will tell.

I just don't see Canon replicating my beloved M6 Mark II form factor with the R10. No way, no how.

The R10 will be bigger, have a built-in EVF, be bigger, have an articulating LCD instead of a tilting one, be bigger, won't be specced nearly as well as the M6ii, and be bigger.

End of story!

Vive Le M!

R2

Canon gave us too much in the M6II and then siggy trio also hurt their sales

DXO PL5 made the high iso results of the M6II on par with the RP

and now ladies and gents, they'll be charging in excess of $2K, instead of $849, for those wanting the best APSC sensor ever made in a mirrorless camera - and it will be bigger and it will not have the great m32 f1.4 and it will not have the 11-22

The party is over for now, but what comes around, goes around - and we will never forget what they did and didn't do

it is not too late canon - to stop this

Long live m6II

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nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 9,074
Re: Different target user groups & different phase in the product life cycles.

trungtran wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

trungtran wrote:

lumenite wrote:

No bad in that it is APS-C system. If Canon just releases a couple of EFM bodies for another three years, its lifespan will become the same as Canon DSLR!

New bodies require tooling and investment. Not as simple as keeping an existing line going. Canon will sell M bodies until it doesn't make financial sense or they have replacement products. We will know more next week.

Electronics are normally made in batches. Canon discontinuing the M6ii in Japan signifies that the line has ended. There will be no more production runs unless some miracle comes around and there is a massive uptick for that body.

Tooling has shifted and the chips will be directed to the new bodies. Discontinuing the flagship says something. No more development in that mount, just like the 1DXiii getting canned.

The 90d has a long lead time as well. 3 months for the kit! Canon doesn't have many of those 32mp sensors.

https://store.canon.jp/online/secure/eos90d.aspx

Sometimes I wonder why Canon did develop that 32Mp crop sensor anyway.

A bump in resolution is always a good improvement. I have a D30 all the way to the M6 and many in between. Each sensor generation has a little improvement in IQ, it keeps them honest in the dev department when they change megapixel numbers.

They really need to retire the 18mp sensor, I guess chip shortages have kept that line going.

What camera is still using the 18mp sensor?

nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 9,074
Re: The diameters of EFM and RF mounts
4

istscott wrote:

It's tough understanding what Canon was thinking with EF-M. The same could be said for Nikon with their CX mount, Pentax with Q, and Samsung NX.

Sony's choice is odd in a way too. Assuming the Wikipedia article is correct, E mount's diameter is 46.1mm whereas EF-M is 47mm. Does the narrow mount hinder their sensor based shake reduction on Full-Frame cameras? Maybe.

Yes, the smaller Sony mount limits IBIS travel.  Those wikipedia measurements are correct, but they don't tell the whole story.  Because of differences in the size of the mounting flange tabs and electrical contact block, the E mount can fit a larger rear element than the EF-M mount.

If these companies had forethought they would have simply been proactive and quickly created a mirrorless version of their mount by shrinking the flange distance and using the same diameter of their SLR era mounts once they saw Micro 4/3rds show up. Though, I do understand Nikon enlarging theirs due to F-mount being so narrow.

The Nikon F mount is measured different from how Canon and most others manufacturers measure their mount.  Nikon only measures to the tabs whereas most others measure the largest possible circle.  Measured like Canon does, the F mount is actually 47mm

I don't think any of the big camera companies did a great job anticipating market direction besides the Micro 4/3rds group for what it is. Even then I don't know if their forward looking mount helped them that much in the long run now that larger formats are becoming lower priced. Maybe other companies copies them too literally with a focus on small sensors and were worse off for it.

Totally agree.  Everyone seemed to be focusing on "smallest possible" instead of "most capable".

I'm fine with how the Canon's APS-C vs. Full-Frame mount separation has been, but what I use EF-M for works with the current lens selection plus contributions by Sigma and Viltrox. Do I want more options? Sure! But I don't need fast ranged lenses like some sports and wildlife APS-C photographers probably do.

I think if EF-M gets dropped it's going to be due to internal battles at Canon. Didn't EF-M start as part of the PowerShot division? I think Magic Lantern noted some type of firmware separation from the M50 onward. Maybe the RF group isn't thrilled with how well EF-M has done lately with minimal releases and fought to end it. Who knows! Maybe we will find out soon.

The original M and M2 clearly came from the DSLR division.  The firmware and hardware were ported right from the T4i and T5i respectively.  The M3 changed up the menus and behaved like a powershot.

While the specific M50 and M50 II models have been quite popular, the M system as a whole has not been extremely popular.  Canon still sells more DSLRs than M system cameras and Canon's long term plan is to migrate all of those DSLR users to the RF mount.  Canon may have decided against creating the M5 II to push more people towards the RP, but the bigger issue is the declining camera market.  Canon is now selling half as many interchangeable lens cameras as they did just a few years ago.  The number of camera models needs to go down and lines need to be consolidated.

m100
m100 Senior Member • Posts: 2,048
Re: The diameters of EFM and RF mounts
1

nnowak wrote:

While the specific M50 and M50 II models have been quite popular, the M system as a whole has not been extremely popular. Canon still sells more DSLRs than M system cameras and Canon's long term plan is to migrate all of those DSLR users to the RF mount.

They need to get that M50II off of display at Best Buy right away because people will keep picking it up and trying it ?

Last time I was there it was so beat up.

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istscott
istscott Regular Member • Posts: 467
Re: The diameters of EFM and RF mounts

m100 wrote:

nnowak wrote:

While the specific M50 and M50 II models have been quite popular, the M system as a whole has not been extremely popular. Canon still sells more DSLRs than M system cameras and Canon's long term plan is to migrate all of those DSLR users to the RF mount.

They need to get that M50II off of display at Best Buy right away because people will keep picking it up and trying it ?

Last time I was there it was so beat up.

Yep, same situation around here with the big box retailers in Illinois (USA). I went to a Target somewhat recently and they had the M50ii, M200, and one DSLR for Canon.

OP lumenite Senior Member • Posts: 1,207
Re: Different target user groups & different phase in the product life cycles.

trungtran wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

trungtran wrote:

lumenite wrote:

No bad in that it is APS-C system. If Canon just releases a couple of EFM bodies for another three years, its lifespan will become the same as Canon DSLR!

New bodies require tooling and investment. Not as simple as keeping an existing line going. Canon will sell M bodies until it doesn't make financial sense or they have replacement products. We will know more next week.

Electronics are normally made in batches. Canon discontinuing the M6ii in Japan signifies that the line has ended. There will be no more production runs unless some miracle comes around and there is a massive uptick for that body.

Tooling has shifted and the chips will be directed to the new bodies. Discontinuing the flagship says something. No more development in that mount, just like the 1DXiii getting canned.

The 90d has a long lead time as well. 3 months for the kit! Canon doesn't have many of those 32mp sensors.

https://store.canon.jp/online/secure/eos90d.aspx

Sometimes I wonder why Canon did develop that 32Mp crop sensor anyway.

A bump in resolution is always a good improvement. I have a D30 all the way to the M6 and many in between. Each sensor generation has a little improvement in IQ, it keeps them honest in the dev department when they change megapixel numbers.

They really need to retire the 18mp sensor, I guess chip shortages have kept that line going.

Do you still have D30? Wow!!!

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MyM6II Senior Member • Posts: 2,424
Re: Different target user groups & different phase in the product life cycles.
1

nnowak wrote:

trungtran wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

trungtran wrote:

lumenite wrote:

No bad in that it is APS-C system. If Canon just releases a couple of EFM bodies for another three years, its lifespan will become the same as Canon DSLR!

New bodies require tooling and investment. Not as simple as keeping an existing line going. Canon will sell M bodies until it doesn't make financial sense or they have replacement products. We will know more next week.

Electronics are normally made in batches. Canon discontinuing the M6ii in Japan signifies that the line has ended. There will be no more production runs unless some miracle comes around and there is a massive uptick for that body.

Tooling has shifted and the chips will be directed to the new bodies. Discontinuing the flagship says something. No more development in that mount, just like the 1DXiii getting canned.

The 90d has a long lead time as well. 3 months for the kit! Canon doesn't have many of those 32mp sensors.

https://store.canon.jp/online/secure/eos90d.aspx

Sometimes I wonder why Canon did develop that 32Mp crop sensor anyway.

A bump in resolution is always a good improvement. I have a D30 all the way to the M6 and many in between. Each sensor generation has a little improvement in IQ, it keeps them honest in the dev department when they change megapixel numbers.

They really need to retire the 18mp sensor, I guess chip shortages have kept that line going.

What camera is still using the 18mp sensor?

EOS 4000D is using it.

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thunder storm Forum Pro • Posts: 10,139
Re: The diameters of EFM and RF mounts
1

MAC wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

The M occupies a niche that cannot, will not, (not in anyone's wildest dreams!) be filled by a crop RF body. ...and to your point it is the diameter of the EF-M mount that actually guarantees this!

I have some serious doubts about this. Time will tell.

I just don't see Canon replicating my beloved M6 Mark II form factor with the R10. No way, no how.

The R10 will be bigger, have a built-in EVF, be bigger, have an articulating LCD instead of a tilting one, be bigger, won't be specced nearly as well as the M6ii, and be bigger.

End of story!

Vive Le M!

R2

Canon gave us too much in the M6II and then siggy trio also hurt their sales

DXO PL5 made the high iso results of the M6II on par with the RP

and now ladies and gents, they'll be charging in excess of $2K, instead of $849, for those wanting the best APSC sensor ever made in a mirrorless camera - and it will be bigger and it will not have the great m32 f1.4 and it will not have the 11-22

The party is over for now, but what comes around, goes around - and we will never forget what they did and didn't do

it is not too late canon - to stop this

Long live m6II

If Canon gives us a 600 grams 1000 euro RF 50mm f/1.4 USM and an USM upgrade for the 85mm f/2.0 at 850 euro plus a both very good and compact standard RF zoom with USM AF at around 600 euro I will forgive Canons sins.

The list of sins is long.  My 6D is nice, but oh my, how I hate that lack of EC  in M + auto ISO.... The crippled hot shoes of entry level DSLRs.... the lack of minimum shutter speed in a lot of models (fortunately the 6D is an exception here).

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45 is more than enough, but 500.000 isn't

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