Advice on focusing/capturing wildlife keepers?

This might be a few questions in one, so bear with me. I'm shooting with the EPL9 and the 40-150mm f/4 and I am loving it. However, a few things are happening which are leading to a lot of missed shots. I recognize these are likely the result of user error, so I'd love advice on the following:

1. I'm missing focus a fair amount on birds. I've got it at s-af + mf as af alone often isn't working out for me. But even then, I'd say I miss focus a fair bit, or it takes me so long to manually adjust that the bird has flown. Any tips here?

2. It's so very difficult for me to get in focus macro shots. I've previously taken all my macro shots with the tg5 and the detail it gets is actually pretty amazing. I've been trying to replicate that on this set up, but as soon as I get close enough to get the level of detail I'm looking for, it won't focus despite all my tinkering. Am I just used to the tg5 and standing more closely than the lens will allow? I've been toying with the idea of getting a 60mm f 2.8 but don't want to just cover my lack of skill with new gear

3. General wildlife q: I go on woodland walks and will have the opportunity to take a photo of a little woodland animal under dense canopy, then suddenly a minute later, see a gorgeous bird in a patch of very bright sky. The lighting is so different from one step to the next and I find myself trying to rush to change the ISO and the shutter speed and focus. Needless to say, it doesnt often work out. How do you adjust all these quickly enough to capture the moment?

Thank you, I appreciate any and all help!

raenneb wrote:

This might be a few questions in one, so bear with me. I'm shooting with the EPL9 and the 40-150mm f/4 and I am loving it. However, a few things are happening which are leading to a lot of missed shots. I recognize these are likely the result of user error, so I'd love advice on the following:

1. I'm missing focus a fair amount on birds. I've got it at s-af + mf as af alone often isn't working out for me. But even then, I'd say I miss focus a fair bit, or it takes me so long to manually adjust that the bird has flown. Any tips here?

2. It's so very difficult for me to get in focus macro shots. I've previously taken all my macro shots with the tg5 and the detail it gets is actually pretty amazing. I've been trying to replicate that on this set up, but as soon as I get close enough to get the level of detail I'm looking for, it won't focus despite all my tinkering. Am I just used to the tg5 and standing more closely than the lens will allow? I've been toying with the idea of getting a 60mm f 2.8 but don't want to just cover my lack of skill with new gear

3. General wildlife q: I go on woodland walks and will have the opportunity to take a photo of a little woodland animal under dense canopy, then suddenly a minute later, see a gorgeous bird in a patch of very bright sky. The lighting is so different from one step to the next and I find myself trying to rush to change the ISO and the shutter speed and focus. Needless to say, it doesnt often work out. How do you adjust all these quickly enough to capture the moment?

Thank you, I appreciate any and all help!

A few possibilities to try..

1. Give C-AF a try and shoot some bursts. With my E-M10 IV I most often use C-AF with a high speed burst even if the bird moves I’ll usually get at least one image that is sharp,

2. I shoot a lot of close ups of bugs with my 40-150 lenses and my 75-300. The tendency to try and get close in will often put me inside the minimum focus distance of the lens and focusing is lost. I suggest buying an inexpensive set of extension tubes (10mm and 16mm) and use the 10mm on your 40-150. This will decrease your minimum focus distance limit and at the same time enlarge the image on the sensor.

3. Select either Aperture or Speed priority on the mode dial and use auto ISO. At first you may find the camera wants to jump the ISO too high, to soon. You may be able to set the minimum shutter speed to lower than the default so the ISO stays lower without  any I’ll effects. Make it easy on yourself, let the camera do it’s thing.

Use the smallest focus point your camera has and put that on a distinctive point on wildlife (most contrast) and let the camera focus, use auto ISO and (S) shutter preferred shooting at maximum aperture.  If your camera has two dials, you can change the shutter speed with one and use the other for exposure compensation.  You can manually correct focus for some targets, but most give you very little time, so you generally must trust the cameras focus.

raenneb wrote:

EXTENSION TUBES. I find they work extremely well for exactly your purpose, and will work great with the focal range of your lens. Just don't get the cheapest generic ones (Fotga, Fotasy), as they are extremely variable in quality. You don't have to get the Kenkos, which are expensive, but stay away from the no-name generics, as they can have connection problems.

Thank you for all the advice. Do you have recommendations for extension tubes? I know diddly squat about them

There are lots of different types, brands, and opinions about them. I got the cheap ones but WITH CONTACTS so the connection to your lens is maintained. They work OK, sometimes need a gentle wiggle to establish the connection.

And, opinion... I much prefer the Raynox diopters (DC 150 for ex) which go in front of the lens. Not sure how it would work with your f4 zoom, but with the cheap kit tele the results were really good.

raenneb wrote:

This might be a few questions in one, so bear with me. I'm shooting with the EPL9 and the 40-150mm f/4 and I am loving it. However, a few things are happening which are leading to a lot of missed shots. I recognize these are likely the result of user error, so I'd love advice on the following:

1. I'm missing focus a fair amount on birds. I've got it at s-af + mf as af alone often isn't working out for me. But even then, I'd say I miss focus a fair bit, or it takes me so long to manually adjust that the bird has flown. Any tips here?

2. It's so very difficult for me to get in focus macro shots. I've previously taken all my macro shots with the tg5 and the detail it gets is actually pretty amazing. I've been trying to replicate that on this set up, but as soon as I get close enough to get the level of detail I'm looking for, it won't focus despite all my tinkering. Am I just used to the tg5 and standing more closely than the lens will allow? I've been toying with the idea of getting a 60mm f 2.8 but don't want to just cover my lack of skill with new gear

3. General wildlife q: I go on woodland walks and will have the opportunity to take a photo of a little woodland animal under dense canopy, then suddenly a minute later, see a gorgeous bird in a patch of very bright sky. The lighting is so different from one step to the next and I find myself trying to rush to change the ISO and the shutter speed and focus. Needless to say, it doesnt often work out. How do you adjust all these quickly enough to capture the moment?

Thank you, I appreciate any and all help!

Ad 2:

The TG has real macro capabilities, your new lens isn't macro but good for close-up. So your feeling is right... for this lens you're (way) to close.

You can buy extension tubes or a real macro (the 30mm doesn't break the bank).

raenneb wrote:

This might be a few questions in one, so bear with me. I'm shooting with the EPL9 and the 40-150mm f/4 and I am loving it. However, a few things are happening which are leading to a lot of missed shots. I recognize these are likely the result of user error, so I'd love advice on the following:

1. I'm missing focus a fair amount on birds. I've got it at s-af + mf as af alone often isn't working out for me. But even then, I'd say I miss focus a fair bit, or it takes me so long to manually adjust that the bird has flown. Any tips here?

2. It's so very difficult for me to get in focus macro shots. I've previously taken all my macro shots with the tg5 and the detail it gets is actually pretty amazing. I've been trying to replicate that on this set up, but as soon as I get close enough to get the level of detail I'm looking for, it won't focus despite all my tinkering. Am I just used to the tg5 and standing more closely than the lens will allow? I've been toying with the idea of getting a 60mm f 2.8 but don't want to just cover my lack of skill with new gear

3. General wildlife q: I go on woodland walks and will have the opportunity to take a photo of a little woodland animal under dense canopy, then suddenly a minute later, see a gorgeous bird in a patch of very bright sky. The lighting is so different from one step to the next and I find myself trying to rush to change the ISO and the shutter speed and focus. Needless to say, it doesnt often work out. How do you adjust all these quickly enough to capture the moment?

Thank you, I appreciate any and all help!

For shooting wildlife I typically shoot wide open and I know I want a fast shutter speed. If I'm walking in the woods and don't know what to expect I'll set my camera at f/4 and 1/1000 and leave it there.  That only leaves ISO to change when conditions change and I can do that very quickly.  I tend to get better results this way than using auto ISO.  If I have a cooperative subject I'll optimize my camera settings but first I just want to get a shot.

Lichtspiel wrote:

raenneb wrote:

EXTENSION TUBES. I find they work extremely well for exactly your purpose, and will work great with the focal range of your lens. Just don't get the cheapest generic ones (Fotga, Fotasy), as they are extremely variable in quality. You don't have to get the Kenkos, which are expensive, but stay away from the no-name generics, as they can have connection problems.

Thank you for all the advice. Do you have recommendations for extension tubes? I know diddly squat about them

There are lots of different types, brands, and opinions about them. I got the cheap ones but WITH CONTACTS so the connection to your lens is maintained. They work OK, sometimes need a gentle wiggle to establish the connection.

And, opinion... I much prefer the Raynox diopters (DC 150 for ex) which go in front of the lens. Not sure how it would work with your f4 zoom, but with the cheap kit tele the results were really good.

I would second that opinion. I've just tried a Raynox DCR-150&250 on my 40-150 f/4 Pro and the results look good. To me a diopter works much more elegantly on that kind of zoom than an extension tube.

On the other hand, a quality close-up lens like a Raynox is a more expensive option. It'll also provide higher magnification/shorter working distance @150mm compared with an extension tube, which may or may not be what's wanted.

jalywol wrote:

Lichtspiel wrote:

raenneb wrote:

EXTENSION TUBES. I find they work extremely well for exactly your purpose, and will work great with the focal range of your lens. Just don't get the cheapest generic ones (Fotga, Fotasy), as they are extremely variable in quality. You don't have to get the Kenkos, which are expensive, but stay away from the no-name generics, as they can have connection problems.

Thank you for all the advice. Do you have recommendations for extension tubes? I know diddly squat about them

There are lots of different types, brands, and opinions about them. I got the cheap ones but WITH CONTACTS so the connection to your lens is maintained. They work OK, sometimes need a gentle wiggle to establish the connection.

And, opinion... I much prefer the Raynox diopters (DC 150 for ex) which go in front of the lens. Not sure how it would work with your f4 zoom, but with the cheap kit tele the results were really good.

I actually detest diopters, even the high end ones, for this kind of work. They introduce CA, and they limit the focal range you have significantly, which extension tubes do not.

[snip]

Like I said, opinions galore. Most recommend what they are using. I have both and found that extension tubes tend to reduce the light much more than diopters, especially if you add a couple/longer ones, making it very difficult to use the LCD screen, and to focus.

With higher quality ones I have not seen a lot of CA added. Might be the case for lower end ones, sure. Not sure how they limit the focal range, maybe for a zoom like the 40-150 not an issue. I also like how they maintain a good amount of subject distance while providing decent magnification.

Best to try both and see what works best.

Atho wrote:

Care to share your results?

Here’s one using the f4 40150 and a 10mm extension tube. Oh and it is a 3 stack

Here are a few quick stacks I did while testing it with the DCR-150. They're all straight out of Helicon Focus without retouching, and all have stacking issues that really need fixing when I have a bit more time, but I think they show that the results when using this lens+Raynox are decently sharp:

Personally, I generally want to fill the frame with small subjects, in some cases going beyond 1:1 magnification. I'm usually more interested in capturing detail that's hard to see with the naked eye rather than showing the subject in its environment. A reasonable sized extension tube just doesn't provide the magnification I want at 150mm.

Really nice examples. The spider needs a bit of retouching in Helicon, but the other two are fine results. Love the sharp hairs, thanks to stacking they are not just in a thin slice of focus.

Lichtspiel wrote:

jalywol wrote:

Lichtspiel wrote:

raenneb wrote:

EXTENSION TUBES. I find they work extremely well for exactly your purpose, and will work great with the focal range of your lens. Just don't get the cheapest generic ones (Fotga, Fotasy), as they are extremely variable in quality. You don't have to get the Kenkos, which are expensive, but stay away from the no-name generics, as they can have connection problems.

Thank you for all the advice. Do you have recommendations for extension tubes? I know diddly squat about them

There are lots of different types, brands, and opinions about them. I got the cheap ones but WITH CONTACTS so the connection to your lens is maintained. They work OK, sometimes need a gentle wiggle to establish the connection.

And, opinion... I much prefer the Raynox diopters (DC 150 for ex) which go in front of the lens. Not sure how it would work with your f4 zoom, but with the cheap kit tele the results were really good.

I actually detest diopters, even the high end ones, for this kind of work. They introduce CA, and they limit the focal range you have significantly, which extension tubes do not.

[snip]

Like I said, opinions galore. Most recommend what they are using. I have both and found that extension tubes tend to reduce the light much more than diopters, especially if you add a couple/longer ones, making it very difficult to use the LCD screen, and to focus.

With higher quality ones I have not seen a lot of CA added. Might be the case for lower end ones, sure.

I think the Raynox ones are particularly well corrected when it comes to CA. I've noticed more colour fringing in my images when testing some other decent quality achromats e.g. Canon and Marumi.

Not sure how they limit the focal range, maybe for a zoom like the 40-150 not an issue. I also like how they maintain a good amount of subject distance while providing decent magnification.

My favourite thing about using diopters on a zoom is just how much easier I find them compared with extension tubes. I can keep the camera in one position, at a comfortable distance from whatever I'm shooting, then zoom in to magnify the subject and zoom out to decrease the magnification.

To me that's just more elegant and intuitive than the way extension tubes offer the highest magnification at the shortest focal length. Especially as the minimum focusing distance changes as you zoom, throwing the subject out of focus and requiring the camera to be moved closer and further away.

Of course that's just my personal preference and I'm sure extension tubes work better for plenty of other people. I'd definitely agree with you that it's best for people to try both and see for themselves, especially when both options are quite affordable.

Lichtspiel wrote:

Really nice examples. The spider needs a bit of retouching in Helicon, but the other two are fine results. Love the sharp hairs, thanks to stacking they are not just in a thin slice of focus.

I've been trying to focus bracket for stacking whenever my subject appears to be keeping sufficiently still. My success rate is far from perfect, and the images always need work, but for me it can definitely be worth it.

I'm not averse to using narrow apertures like f/16 and f/22, but even after careful sharpening there's a loss of fine detail, e.g. in an insect's compound eye.