Ricoh GR III dust issue: Looks like the dust is on the built-in ND filter.

First, sorry to see the dust!! I went thru that with my (new) GR3. I told  Precision Camera here in the states that I saw spots on the image. Because I don't know what's causing it.

Also, IMHO that the dust removal in camera doesn't always do the job. Long story short, mine was within the lens. So the whole insides of the camera were replaced.

I did check with "local" camera repair places and the going rate seems to be about $165.00  USD for non interchangeable lens cameras]

I would never attempt to take the unit apart..not too mechanically incline

Rick

Best of luck

wjzh wrote:

Hi Berjersey!

Thanks for sharing! And, sorry to hear about the dust issue of your camera....

I agree with you. Cleaning the dust on my own is too complicated and too risky for me. The service charge is too high if I sent it to someone else. Even if I somehow have it cleaned, the dust will keep getting into the camera in the future.

Maybe I could just use Photoshop to remove the dust from image if really needed

Hi,

Yeah it used to be about 145.00 near me in the states but has gone up. LR has a simple spot fix that I have used. It leaves no trace. https://www.naturettl.com/how-to-quickly-find-remove-all-dust-spots-in-lightroom/

Bejersey wrote:

wjzh wrote:

Maybe I could just use Photoshop to remove the dust from image if really needed

Yeah it used to be about 145.00 near me in the states but has gone up. LR has a simple spot fix that I have used. It leaves no trace. https://www.naturettl.com/how-to-quickly-find-remove-all-dust-spots-in-lightroom/

If Ricoh unable solve dust issues, please add "Dust Remove" feature to GR JPEG engine / Built-In RAW processing via firmware upgrade.

Not sure about the nd filter thing but on the GR dust can move around a fair bit, i had a blob on my old gr and managed to knock it off.. some of the lighter dust just moved around a bit over time but wasnt an issue at normal aperture.

Griii likely to help with moving the dust.

This is why I haven't pulled the trigger on the GR iii or any previous versions. I can't imagine paying a grand for a camera only to have it collect dust internally and no way that I can address it without sending it off for expensive cleanings only for it to happen again. 
I was debating between this and the canon m200 that is on sale and I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the canon simply because I want the ability to clean the sensor if there is an issue.
I know I'm giving up a lot with the 200 vs this one BUT unless anyone can convince me this isn't a huge issue I'm going to keep my wallet in my pocket for a while.

TimCastleman wrote:

This is why I haven't pulled the trigger on the GR iii or any previous versions. I can't imagine paying a grand for a camera only to have it collect dust internally and no way that I can address it without sending it off for expensive cleanings only for it to happen again.

Agree that can't accept pocketable camera can't fill in pocket due to dust (in pocket).

Many affordable pocketable gears (include smartphone, smartwatch) has IPX rating.

Olympus collapsible lens has IPX rating too. Below video (at 9 minutes 47 second) show "how achieve weather sealing on collapsible lens".

Collapsible fixed prime lens more easy archive wyer sealing because air flow can pass through camera body instead of thin lens barrel.

TimCastleman wrote:

This is why I haven't pulled the trigger on the GR iii or any previous versions. I can't imagine paying a grand for a camera only to have it collect dust internally and no way that I can address it without sending it off for expensive cleanings only for it to happen again.
I was debating between this and the canon m200 that is on sale and I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the canon simply because I want the ability to clean the sensor if there is an issue.
I know I'm giving up a lot with the 200 vs this one BUT unless anyone can convince me this isn't a huge issue I'm going to keep my wallet in my pocket for a while.

Two different cameras as you know. I have, besides the  GR3, A canon M6 II for some of the pro work I do. As for the dust issue I agree with you. Some people seem to believe it comes with the territory and shut up and shoot. I vehemently disagree. If I have a situation after my warranty has expired where there is dust I will insist Ricoh pay all or half of the expenses.

Rick

Sort of goes with the camera body type - fixed lens that extends and contracts.  Made to pocketable size, gets pocketed and whether or not the seals are crazy-great the lens extending and contracting has to displace air somewhere (or pressurise it).

I am a long term Ricoh GRD man who eventually decided that the GR had become just so many cubic mm too large for a camera that I always carried in a case on my hip.

Despite the lens type I was never bothered by dust bunnies, Before sensor shake there was nothing provided to clean up a nasty bunny inside the lens.  Despite this no bunnies noticeable = 'no issues'.  I put this down to never pocketing my camera and for those not aware the GRD in its original form had no spring on the battery door or retaining clip to stop the battery falling out when the door was opened.  In fact gravity was handy when removing the battery.  Shock-horror that you could see the internal boards when looking into the empty battery compartment.

But Ricoh, to its inestimable credit, insisted on making high quality compact cameras whilst the rest cheapened them out of existence.

Yet no dust bunnies - that was until I "ran out of hands" with my GR I and pocketed it a couple of times - sure enough a found a dust bunny ... (grumble).

There is something ingenious about a camera made just pocketable size that is not a really good thing to actually fit in ones pocket ...

Not that my love for all things Ricoh has diminished but in the end I decided that the then Panasonic GM1 was very much like a GR equivalent that could mount any lens from the M4/3 stable.  That was eight years ago and I immediately added a 12/2.0 lens (24/2.0*) and 42.5/1.2 (85/1.2*) and have added GM5 and other camera bodies since which all can use the same lenses.  The GM1 (then) also had sensor shake and if rougher treatment for dust was necessary - just click off the lens and go for it with a blower. Heck, I can add and use a 200.2.8 (400/2.8*) M4/3 mount lens when I choose and that comes with dedicate 1.4x or 2.0x Teleconverters if thought truly necessary.  Big lens, tiny body, but it works a treat with the GM5 and regular telephoto grip.

So I am not advocating swapping camera suppliers, it is just a pity that the GR is not a M4/3 mount camera body that could mount any of 100+ M4/3 lenses that are available - or do a deal with Fuji? For their X range of lenses?  But the 4/3 sensor is not that bad for a brand that made the GRD sing with what were sliver sized lenses. Besides doing the M4/3 consortium had to be easier than a deal with Fuji.

* M4/3 like to use the actual focal length and not the FF sensor equivalent.

Unfortunately Panasonic stopped making the GM1 and it wonderful sibling the GM5 which has a quite usable evf.  The price has since held up well even since the type was abandoned - someone must like this type of camera body.

Unfortunately/fortunately my old Ricoh gear has proved very reliable and just how many 28mm fixed collapsing lens FF fov equivalent camera do you need?  The current GRDIIIx has been too little too late.  But I recognise the current GRIII series as excellent cameras and long may they continue to prosper.

I have a lot of nostalgia and respect for Ricoh gear and regret deeply that they did not persevere with the GXR modular concept just about when it seemed on the cusp of showing its true merit and went off on what must have been a hugely expensive adventure when it bought Pentax assets.

Nice commentary and write up. The dust issue is a big yawn for me, especially from those who don't own the cameras and don't intend to buy a GR. Just come here to complain and then move on, not to be heard from again. Having said that, I understand the frustration if this occurs to someone with a relatively new camera.

I've never put a pocketable camera with a retractable lens in a pocket without something around it to protect it from dust, etc.

Even if eventually you do get dust on the sensor why is a camera different than any other product we own that eventually needs servicing. I collect manual typewriters and used to remove the platens and feed rollers and send them off to have new rubber put on them until the last company that did this work closed down.

I'd also like to buy a small body like you mentioned for my M43 lenses and hope Panasonic comes out with something new this year. So far, can't get my hands on the Oly PEN E-P7, although it might be possible directly from Japan. Not motivated to try at the moment.

Promeneur wrote:

Nice commentary and write up. The dust issue is a big yawn for me, especially from those who don't own the cameras and don't intend to buy a GR. Just come here to complain and then move on, not to be heard from again. Having said that, I understand the frustration if this occurs to someone with a relatively new camera.

I've never put a pocketable camera with a retractable lens in a pocket without something around it to protect it from dust, etc.

Even if eventually you do get dust on the sensor why is a camera different than any other product we own that eventually needs servicing. I collect manual typewriters and used to remove the platens and feed rollers and send them off to have new rubber put on them until the last company that did this work closed down.

I'd also like to buy a small body like you mentioned for my M43 lenses and hope Panasonic comes out with something new this year. So far, can't get my hands on the Oly PEN E-P7, although it might be possible directly from Japan. Not motivated to try at the moment.

This dust on sensor issue is not new with the Ricoh GR - it has been a minor issue with the GDR/GR for years - usually dismissed as being due to sharing a pocket with the lint inside.  Something that is often denied with some vehemence. I don't really know but what is expected of a pocketable camera other than placing it in a pocket from time to time?

I assiduously avoided pocketing my GRD bodies and this continued with my GR until I did pocket it once or twice - and surely I found a dust bunny.

Lots of noise about better seals - but a hermitically sealed collapsing lens could not function because of the compression of air when retracting and suction when expanding.  For that reason I prefer even my lenses to be of the internal focus and zoom variety.  Might be a little larger than their extending cousins but quite a lot less likely to be a dust pump.

Those that are into buying legacy MF lenses will well know the reservation by all vendors: "has some dust inside the barrel, but will not affect images". Dust inside lenses happens and the sensor is right behind the lens. This leaves all collapsing lenses just a trifle vulnerable.

Therefore I remain gratified by my Ricoh years and I still have all my Ricoh gear in working order.  It is just a pity that a brand which has several mount systems in play has never sought to adopt a universal ML (mirrorless) mount system.  The Pentax Q apparently only suits very small sensors and to all extent is dead in the water.  The PK mount flange focal distance is too long.

Years ago there was a reference on the is forum to a collapsing PK mount that could handle both existing PK mount lenses and those with the same mount (collapsed) which would be genuine ML mount lenses.  Nothing seems to have come of it.

So the obvious choice would be for Ricoh to join the M4/3 mount consortium and have immediate access to a huge range of lenses.  They could add some of their own - this would give them access for such lenses to a considerable established base of M4/3 camera bodies.

However would the 'new' base of GR owners accept 'downgrading' the sensor from ape-c to  4/3?  If so it would be a new breed of user as there were many happy users of the sliver-sized sensor GRD model - which had the advantage in the MkIV of image stabilisation way back when and was a much smaller package as well.

More the pity that the Pentax Q was preferred to a GRDIV with a Q mount.  The GRDIV was a much more sophisticated camera than the Q ever was.

Ricoh also needs to get over its evf phobia - small evf units such as that in the Panasonic GM5 are actually very good.  But maybe adding an evf might price the GR right out of the market?  How about a swap?  M4/3 mount system instead of a lens and an evf included?

Starts looking like a GM5 ... but whilst the GM5 is 'resting' (as the out of work actor might say) the month before such GR body with mount hit the market the GM5 update would already be in the shops.  Such is the camera business.

Sounds like win-win for the consumer but might be the kiss of death for Ricoh.

Best stay where they are in a handy little niche of their own ...

wjzh wrote:

Hi!

Recently I noticed a dust issue on my Ricoh GR III. When shooting at slow apeture, I see dust in the picture. I did some test on the camera. During the test I found some interesting phenomenon. It seems like the dust isn't exactly on the sensor but on a plane near sensor.

Test settings:

1. IBIS off
2. Aperture=F16
3. Manual focus

The dust "shifts" when focusing at different distances. When using macro mode, the dust position even shift more. Here are the test images:

F16, Focus=infinity

F16, Focus=1m

F16, Macro mode, Focus=6cm

Note the difference of the dust apperance and position.

I suspect that the dust is on the built-in digital ND filter, this explains why the sensor cleaning feature didn't work.

Although it is not a very serious issue for me because at most of the time I shoot with fast apeture so the dust is hard to notice (partially because the dust isn't exactly on the sensor). Still, I wonder if it is necessary to have the dust removed from time to time, like, DIY or send it to Ricoh? Or just leave it because it seems like not a very serious problem.

Thanks!

Why shoot at f-16.

The best is f 4 to f8

sae1lin2aug3 wrote:

wjzh wrote:

Hi!

Recently I noticed a dust issue on my Ricoh GR III. When shooting at slow apeture, I see dust in the picture. I did some test on the camera. During the test I found some interesting phenomenon. It seems like the dust isn't exactly on the sensor but on a plane near sensor.

Test settings:

1. IBIS off
2. Aperture=F16
3. Manual focus

Why shoot at f-16.

The best is f 4 to f8

When little dust on GRIII sensor/ND filter, dust able spotted via F16.

When many dust on GRIII sensor/ND filter after long period used (out of warranty), are dust able spotted at F4-F8?

DougOB wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Promeneur wrote:

Nice commentary and write up. The dust issue is a big yawn for me, especially from those who don't own the cameras and don't intend to buy a GR. Just come here to complain and then move on, not to be heard from again. Having said that, I understand the frustration if this occurs to someone with a relatively new camera.

I've never put a pocketable camera with a retractable lens in a pocket without something around it to protect it from dust, etc.

Even if eventually you do get dust on the sensor why is a camera different than any other product we own that eventually needs servicing. I collect manual typewriters and used to remove the platens and feed rollers and send them off to have new rubber put on them until the last company that did this work closed down.

I'd also like to buy a small body like you mentioned for my M43 lenses and hope Panasonic comes out with something new this year. So far, can't get my hands on the Oly PEN E-P7, although it might be possible directly from Japan. Not motivated to try at the moment.

This dust on sensor issue is not new with the Ricoh GR - it has been a minor issue with the GDR/GR for years - usually dismissed as being due to sharing a pocket with the lint inside. Something that is often denied with some vehemence. I don't really know but what is expected of a pocketable camera other than placing it in a pocket from time to time?

I assiduously avoided pocketing my GRD bodies and this continued with my GR until I did pocket it once or twice - and surely I found a dust bunny.

Lots of noise about better seals - but a hermitically sealed collapsing lens could not function because of the compression of air when retracting and suction when expanding. For that reason I prefer even my lenses to be of the internal focus and zoom variety. Might be a little larger than their extending cousins but quite a lot less likely to be a dust pump.

Those that are into buying legacy MF lenses will well know the reservation by all vendors: "has some dust inside the barrel, but will not affect images". Dust inside lenses happens and the sensor is right behind the lens. This leaves all collapsing lenses just a trifle vulnerable.

Therefore I remain gratified by my Ricoh years and I still have all my Ricoh gear in working order. It is just a pity that a brand which has several mount systems in play has never sought to adopt a universal ML (mirrorless) mount system. The Pentax Q apparently only suits very small sensors and to all extent is dead in the water. The PK mount flange focal distance is too long.

Years ago there was a reference on the is forum to a collapsing PK mount that could handle both existing PK mount lenses and those with the same mount (collapsed) which would be genuine ML mount lenses. Nothing seems to have come of it.

So the obvious choice would be for Ricoh to join the M4/3 mount consortium and have immediate access to a huge range of lenses. They could add some of their own - this would give them access for such lenses to a considerable established base of M4/3 camera bodies.

However would the 'new' base of GR owners accept 'downgrading' the sensor from ape-c to 4/3? If so it would be a new breed of user as there were many happy users of the sliver-sized sensor GRD model - which had the advantage in the MkIV of image stabilisation way back when and was a much smaller package as well.

More the pity that the Pentax Q was preferred to a GRDIV with a Q mount.

Of course the Q was developed before Ricoh bought Pentax.

Cannot argue with that, especially when they handed the Ricoh camera assets to the former Pentax management to oversee.  Who quickly gutted what Ricoh then offered which included the promising GXR venture, but excepted the GRD/GR venture.

Then Pentax gave us the freaky K-01 (also under development) and launched the push for a FF dlsr which eventually arrived as a creditable camera at just about the point where Canon and Nikon were exiting the dslr concept altogether.

Ricoh bought the Q mount system and the GRD was the better camera.  Maybe the Q could have been dropped and the mount system re-engineered on the GRD body?  The sensors were the same size and the bodies were the same size.  Pentax (aka Ricoh) put a lot of effort into the Q venture but right to the end they persisted with the low-resolution lcd screens on the Q.  The GRDIV had the high resolution lcd of the GXR which proved that focus peaking worked very well on this type of screen.  The GRDIV also had image stabilisation well before the GR received it and the Q never received this as far as I know.

The Q mount is now just another mount system in the trash can of history.

So my plaint is that the acquisition of the Pentax assets  was a fond trip down memory lane and did the Ricoh brand not much good at all. Leaving it with the rump of the GRD series in the form of the new-look GR.

They then had to pick up the multi-million dollar successful claim for back royalties owed by Pentax to Ricoh ....  I struggle to see why the money thrown at the Pentax side could not have been better spent improving the existing Ricoh products.

The GRDIV was a much more sophisticated camera than the Q ever was.

Ricoh also needs to get over its evf phobia - small evf units such as that in the Panasonic GM5 are actually very good. But maybe adding an evf might price the GR right out of the market? How about a swap? M4/3 mount system instead of a lens and an evf included?

Starts looking like a GM5 ... but whilst the GM5 is 'resting' (as the out of work actor might say) the month before such GR body with mount hit the market the GM5 update would already be in the shops. Such is the camera business.

Sounds like win-win for the consumer but might be the kiss of death for Ricoh.

Best stay where they are in a handy little niche of their own ...