Canon, where is your compact bokeh king?

Which compact is the blur king? With F-stop equivalencies:

G1X    - F3.6 to F7  - 120mm tele

G1X2 - F3.6 to F11 - 120mm tele

G5X2 - F5.4 to F8.4 - 120mm tele

G7X3 - F5.4 to F8.4 - 100mm tele

MFT12-40 F5.6 to F5.6 - 80mm tele

Actually I thought the G1X series would have a bigger advantage here, but as you can see below the G7X3 keeps up well with the best G1X up till 100mm. The G5x2 then has the same range as the G1X-2, so these are comparable.

So it seems the LX100 still is the clear winner and outperforms for example an Olympus EM1.2 with 12-40PRO lens (in terms of DOF control).

But what is the limit? How much lower can we theoretically go in the graph below, still in a compact body? Well, the A7C is a fairly compact full frame camera, say with a pancake 40/2.8 type of prime (a la the existing Canon 40/2.8) it would seem like a dream machine. But Sony doesn't have it. But maybe even a fixed, folding zoomlens (a la G1 design) would be an option? Have they really hit a brick wall yet? Or havent they been trying?

Kind regards,

Bas Hamstra

Canon M200 + EF-M 22mm f/2.0 😃

MyM6II wrote:

Canon M200 + EF-M 22mm f/2.0 😃

Interesting, and less expensive than the overpriced G5x. I don't know this line very well I must say, but its interesting. But the lens does stick out too much to be even coat pocketable. Anyway thanks for the pointer, IQ seems top notch.  So far I have had a couple of eye openers, for one thing I will no longer look for a G1X.

Bas

Bas Hamstra wrote:

MyM6II wrote:

Canon M200 + EF-M 22mm f/2.0 😃

Interesting, and less expensive than the overpriced G5x. I don't know this line very well I must say, but its interesting. But the lens does stick out too much to be even coat pocketable. Anyway thanks for the pointer, IQ seems top notch. So far I have had a couple of eye openers, for one thing I will no longer look for a G1X.

Bas

I am able to stick M6 and EF-M 22 in my pocket.

Bas Hamstra wrote:

MyM6II wrote:

Canon M200 + EF-M 22mm f/2.0 😃

Interesting, and less expensive than the overpriced G5x. I don't know this line very well I must say, but its interesting. But the lens does stick out too much to be even coat pocketable. Anyway thanks for the pointer, IQ seems top notch. So far I have had a couple of eye openers, for one thing I will no longer look for a G1X.

and the 11-22 gives a zoom to add if you have a large coat , its truly excellent and a breath of fresh air after the rest of the M zooms which range from very poor to barely OK . with the M6-II`s cropping abiity you get to extend the "reach" of the short 22mm end too ..

The G5X-II is actually a very good camera despite its 1st gen popup EVF and flaws which could be fixed in firmware (but canon won't of course as they never do) - its such a shame they had to follow Sony's lead on ludicrously overpricing these compacts , £499 I`d say was about right , £850 is so outrageously comical its not funny .. they are obtainable mint condition used from a dealer with warranty for £599 which is a lot better but still only £30 less than the groundbreaking G1X Mk1 was brand new at launch

KEG wrote:

Bas Hamstra wrote:

MyM6II wrote:

Canon M200 + EF-M 22mm f/2.0 😃

Interesting, and less expensive than the overpriced G5x. I don't know this line very well I must say, but its interesting. But the lens does stick out too much to be even coat pocketable. Anyway thanks for the pointer, IQ seems top notch. So far I have had a couple of eye openers, for one thing I will no longer look for a G1X.

Bas

I am able to stick M6 and EF-M 22 in my pocket.

Yeah, but what I see here looks sizewise too much like a MFT sized camera, which I already have. For me, as die hard used camera user, it would be probably cheaper for me to buy an old slim olympus body and put the 20mm/1.7 pancake on.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63256606

But still can't help to be intrigued by the G7X, I had so much fun for years using my old Ixus, and these later 1 inch cams seem to have gotten really good now. If I look at some samples here and there (I downloaded a couple my to regular favourite image viewer to be sure).

Bas

AdamT wrote:

The G5X-II is actually a very good camera despite its 1st gen popup EVF and flaws which could be fixed in firmware (but canon won't of course as they never do) - its such a shame they had to follow Sony's lead on ludicrously overpricing these compacts , £499 I`d say was about right , £850 is so outrageously comical its not funny .. they are obtainable mint condition used from a dealer with warranty for £599 which is a lot better but still only £30 less than the groundbreaking G1X Mk1 was brand new at launch

Are there any ones to avoid? I am willing to spend around 400EUR, and for that I see the following options:

1. G7X mark II for around 300EUR 
2. G7X mark III for around 500EUR
3. G7X mark I probably around 200EUR
4. G5X mark I around 350EUR

The G5X mark II probably way above 500 or even 600 which I am not willing to spend.

My impression is that at least the G7X.3 and G5X.2 have rather good lenses. How about the G7X.2?

Kind regards,

Bas

1. G7X mark II for around 300EUR

Prob the sweet spot as the Mk3 didn`t seem to add much of worth IMO as the Stacked sensor would appear to add little or nothing to these cameras (it's not as if they need it for fast PD-AF readout or 30 frames per second bursts with tracking and C-AF or anything) - the Mk3 is a lot more money but the RAW image quality of the MK1 is just as good and they are cheap on the used market - Mk2 added a bit more speed but for stills the mk1 is just as good, at least in RAW ..

1. G5X mark I around 350EUR

this is a unique camera - basically a similar body to the G1X Mk3 and EOS-M5 but in 1" form with the G7X lens and Mk1 era processing - handles by far the best of the lot but is the same age as the G7X Mk1 so again, don`t expect a speed demon

My impression is that at least the G7X.3 and G5X.2 have rather good lenses. How about the G7X.2?

All the G7X series and the G5X Mk1 have exactly the same lens .. it`s sharp and is the total opposite of the sony models in that its weakest at the widest end due to distortion , CA and black corners from the optics which needs correcting in camera or in RAW converter but it gets better and better as you zoom (amazingly good at 100mm even at F2.8 for instance) whereas the RX100 series are at their best at the wide end and get weaker and softer as you zoom especially at distance .

the G5X Mk2 has a newer better lens which has better more consistent optics though the range with less issues but is also weakest at the widest end, it gets better quicker than the G7X series lens .

All the Canon models have superb IS - something I found to be a weak point in the Sonys , I was amazed at how slow a shutter speed I could hold the LCD only G7X Mk1 let alone an EVF equipped model .. the touchscreens are superb and responsive too even in the MK1 cameras

F8AD wrote:

I don't think the G5X ( f/1.8-f/2.8) is overpriced ;it looks to be less of an expense than the M200,plus it has a viewfinder. It fits in a jacket pocket, but won't ever fit my pants pocket. I really enjoy mine.

Could you post a portrait/headshot with as much background blur as possible, if it's not too much trouble? Even better would be one with a head filling the frame and one  head+shoulders filling the frame.

Thanks in advance,

Bas

Bas Hamstra wrote:

Which compact is the blur king? With F-stop equivalencies:

G1X - F3.6 to F7 - 120mm tele

G1X2 - F3.6 to F11 - 120mm tele

G5X2 - F5.4 to F8.4 - 120mm tele

G7X3 - F5.4 to F8.4 - 100mm tele

MFT12-40 F5.6 to F5.6 - 80mm tele

Actually I thought the G1X series would have a bigger advantage here, but as you can see below the G7X3 keeps up well with the best G1X up till 100mm. The G5x2 then has the same range as the G1X-2, so these are comparable.

So it seems the LX100 still is the clear winner and outperforms for example an Olympus EM1.2 with 12-40PRO lens (in terms of DOF control).

But what is the limit? How much lower can we theoretically go in the graph below, still in a compact body? Well, the A7C is a fairly compact full frame camera, say with a pancake 40/2.8 type of prime (a la the existing Canon 40/2.8) it would seem like a dream machine. But Sony doesn't have it. But maybe even a fixed, folding zoomlens (a la G1 design) would be an option? Have they really hit a brick wall yet? Or havent they been trying?

Kind regards,

Bas Hamstra

Compact and bokeh don’t usually go together due to the reality of optical physics. “Fast” lenses are not usually compact unless a compromise exists.

The Canon compact bokeh king is the G1X mark II, but, due to its archaic sensor and processor, I’d say the G5x Mark II is the only relevant Canon compact bokeh king.

The other is less obvious; an RP or M6II married to a fast prime. As I said about physics… Those are much larger offerings.

The LX100 is still the king of compacts, but like the G1X Mark II, it suffers due to sensor design… Despite it’s fast optic the LX100 suffers in low light. I think the best explanation I’ve heard as to why is poor amplification. That’s a thing I might add. Poor sensor design can rain on the parade of a larger sensor. Just ask Canon’s G1X mark II with its poor DR. Simple stuff can make or break an otherwise good thing.

Bas Hamstra wrote:

Which compact is the blur king? With F-stop equivalencies:

G1X - F3.6 to F7 - 120mm tele

G1X2 - F3.6 to F11 - 120mm tele

G5X2 - F5.4 to F8.4 - 120mm tele

G7X3 - F5.4 to F8.4 - 100mm tele

MFT12-40 F5.6 to F5.6 - 80mm tele

Actually I thought the G1X series would have a bigger advantage here, but as you can see below the G7X3 keeps up well with the best G1X up till 100mm. The G5x2 then has the same range as the G1X-2, so these are comparable.

So it seems the LX100 still is the clear winner and outperforms for example an Olympus EM1.2 with 12-40PRO lens (in terms of DOF control).

But what is the limit? How much lower can we theoretically go in the graph below, still in a compact body? Well, the A7C is a fairly compact full frame camera, say with a pancake 40/2.8 type of prime (a la the existing Canon 40/2.8) it would seem like a dream machine. But Sony doesn't have it. But maybe even a fixed, folding zoomlens (a la G1 design) would be an option? Have they really hit a brick wall yet? Or havent they been trying?

Kind regards,

Bas Hamstra

I dont have one but a ZV-1 with the "bokeh button" looks pretty good from the samples I have seen. Of course its still only 70mm and no EVF so it does not feed my needs as a travel camera but in terms of bokeh smoothness, it could be a good option if the rest of it fits your needs.

MyM6II wrote:

Canon M200 + EF-M 22mm f/2.0 😃

But would this have Image Stabilization (I don't think so)? If it does, I would look into buying one.

Thanks, Rita

KEG wrote:

Bas Hamstra wrote:

MyM6II wrote:

Canon M200 + EF-M 22mm f/2.0 😃

Interesting, and less expensive than the overpriced G5x. I don't know this line very well I must say, but its interesting. But the lens does stick out too much to be even coat pocketable. Anyway thanks for the pointer, IQ seems top notch. So far I have had a couple of eye openers, for one thing I will no longer look for a G1X.

Bas

I am able to stick M6 and EF-M 22 in my pocket.

But no image stabilization, right? I have a tremor.

Thanks, Rita

Chris 222 wrote:

RLight wrote:

The LX100 is still the king of compacts,

I respectfully disagree.

Having used them all, the best overall compact out there is (and probably will remain forever given the direction in which industry seems to be going) by far, the Canon G1X3. It outperforms the LX100 quite significantly (for both photos and videos.)

This is not geek talk, but actual user experience.

I've seen samples that the G1X III "beats" the LX100 in low light despite the equivalence advantage the LX100 has. You're not going to get much fight from me arguing the Canon is better as a largely Canon shooter.

However in talking sheer bokeh rendering capability, it's the LX100 and G1X Mark II. I didn't say either of those cameras are better otherwise over the G1X III though...