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Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Nymph New Member • Posts: 2
Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?
1

I've done portrait photography for 7+ years, but I'm new to using Canon.
I got this camera just over a month ago, but have already taken thousands of photos - and a LOT of them I have had to throw out due to the eye detect AF being wrong; or at least my understanding of it being wrong.
I'm on a fully updated R6 / RF 50mm 1.8 lens.
I know the 1.8 is very soft but I have used the lens at different apertures lots and it still seems to be the autofocus giving me issues. I shoot mainly outdoors in optimal lighting, low ISO, high-ish shutter speeds. 
My main confusion begins with the eye and face tracking, it can show me that it's detected an eye -- I can take the photo -- and then when I zoom in to the focal point on the image I've taken it's not focused on the eye, it's focused on something else on the face or even sometimes not the face at all. I recently turned off the square that shows the focal point in playback, but when I had it turned on it would even show that the square was over the eye, when the photo was most definitely not focused on or anywhere near the eye.
...Am I misunderstanding what the eye/facial tracking is?
...When the square shows up that it's detected a face/eye, as I'm half-pressing, does that not mean the photo will come out focused on that square? It looks like it's focused in that area, until I snap a photo.
This is even more-so an issue if I'm taking a few photos back to back.
I have switched between drive modes - single, burst, etc. As soon as I've taken the first photo in focus, it's like it restarts the AF. I have to stop, re-focus, and take another photo - I can't just shoot multiple photos at once even if the camera and the subject have not moved (even with a tripod.) If I have moved, or if I'm shooting an animal who has started walking towards me, it doesn't stay locked on to the face as I'm taking pictures. It doesn't re-focus onto it automatically, and I can keep half-pressing and shooting as it's moving towards me, it never figures it out and re-focuses/locks back onto the face even though I KNOW it detected it initially. 
I dont know how many times I have switched settings, but currently mine look like this:
AF operation: Servo (I have tried one shot, don't really understand the difference but every forum says to use servo?)
AF method: Face Detect
Subject to detect: I have always made sure to switch it respectively between people and animals 
Continuous AF: Disabled (Every thing I have found online says to disable as it causes focus issues, I've used it enabled and didn't find it to make anything worse)
I have switched the "Case" for the Servo AF mode (page 3 of AF settings) to try all of them and haven't noticed a difference, right now I've been testing it on "subjects that accelerate or decelerate quickly but haven't had good enough weather to test it out properly."
I want to say nearly 70% or more of photos I take will be out of focus, either completely or just enough that the face is blurry in the wrong spots. If I'm in relatively low-lighting/gloomy day/etc and I have to be in a higher ISO it tends to be even worse, but I'm finding this issue even on very well-lit days, even when I have used external lights. If I am trying to be fast-paced nearly ALL of my photos will be out of focus. 
Is this just how it is and it's still considered "spectacular" ...or am I missing something that every other Canon R6 user does?

Canon EOS R6 Canon RF 50mm F1.8 STM
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zzip Regular Member • Posts: 136
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

try not to use servo and static target... if no issues then RF 50/1.8 has a slowpoke ancient STM motor that can't handle servo/moving targets in your use case...

PS: AF method: Face Detect ... use eye detection, if you want eyes in focus

AlanChown Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

I assume you are using the full sensor tracking area and not switched to one of the smaller or spot zones. Eye AF only works on the full sensor tracking zone.

Continuous AF is irrelevant, it just means literally what it says, the camera will continue to focus all the time it's on without touching any focussing buttons. So should be off for the vast majority of us.

PMUK
PMUK Senior Member • Posts: 2,999
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

Hi Nymph,

Nymph wrote:

I've done portrait photography for 7+ years, but I'm new to using Canon.
I got this camera just over a month ago, but have already taken thousands of photos - and a LOT of them I have had to throw out due to the eye detect AF being wrong; or at least my understanding of it being wrong.
I'm on a fully updated R6 / RF 50mm 1.8 lens.
I know the 1.8 is very soft but I have used the lens at different apertures lots and it still seems to be the autofocus giving me issues. I shoot mainly outdoors in optimal lighting, low ISO, high-ish shutter speeds.
My main confusion begins with the eye and face tracking, it can show me that it's detected an eye -- I can take the photo -- and then when I zoom in to the focal point on the image I've taken it's not focused on the eye, it's focused on something else on the face or even sometimes not the face at all. I recently turned off the square that shows the focal point in playback, but when I had it turned on it would even show that the square was over the eye, when the photo was most definitely not focused on or anywhere near the eye.
...Am I misunderstanding what the eye/facial tracking is?
...When the square shows up that it's detected a face/eye, as I'm half-pressing, does that not mean the photo will come out focused on that square? It looks like it's focused in that area, until I snap a photo.
This is even more-so an issue if I'm taking a few photos back to back.
I have switched between drive modes - single, burst, etc. As soon as I've taken the first photo in focus, it's like it restarts the AF. I have to stop, re-focus, and take another photo - I can't just shoot multiple photos at once even if the camera and the subject have not moved (even with a tripod.) If I have moved, or if I'm shooting an animal who has started walking towards me, it doesn't stay locked on to the face as I'm taking pictures. It doesn't re-focus onto it automatically, and I can keep half-pressing and shooting as it's moving towards me, it never figures it out and re-focuses/locks back onto the face even though I KNOW it detected it initially.
I dont know how many times I have switched settings, but currently mine look like this:
AF operation: Servo (I have tried one shot, don't really understand the difference but every forum says to use servo?)

AF Operation -

AF method: Face Detect
Subject to detect: I have always made sure to switch it respectively between people and animals

For general people/ animal, face/ eye shots I would recommend -

AF Operation: Servo AF,

AF Method: "L"(Face)+Tracking,

Subject to detect: People/ Animals, and

Eye AF: Enabled.

("L"(Face)+Tracking is the only AF Method where you'll get Face/ Eye detection and tracking).

Continuous AF: Disabled (Every thing I have found online says to disable as it causes focus issues, I've used it enabled and didn't find it to make anything worse)

This means the camera is continuously trying to acquire focus and it will drain your battery, so I would only consider using it where having 'continuous focus' is a specific requirement.

I have switched the "Case" for the Servo AF mode (page 3 of AF settings) to try all of them and haven't noticed a difference, right now I've been testing it on "subjects that accelerate or decelerate quickly but haven't had good enough weather to test it out properly."

For generic people/ animal shots Case 1 is a good catch-all. I'd only move on from there if you have problems and the AF needs to be more flexible/ agile/ sticky for your purposes.

I want to say nearly 70% or more of photos I take will be out of focus, either completely or just enough that the face is blurry in the wrong spots. If I'm in relatively low-lighting/gloomy day/etc and I have to be in a higher ISO it tends to be even worse, but I'm finding this issue even on very well-lit days, even when I have used external lights. If I am trying to be fast-paced nearly ALL of my photos will be out of focus.
Is this just how it is and it's still considered "spectacular" ...or am I missing something that every other Canon R6 user does?

If the above gives a <30% hit rate, something seems amiss - have you tried other lenses?

Phil

Canon_Guy
Canon_Guy Senior Member • Posts: 1,486
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

As mentioned above, it is the lens. I have its EF version adapted on R6 and it fails time to time. Focusing reliability of 135/2, RF 24-105/4 or 70-200/2.8 II is better by far.

50/1.8  is the cheapest lens so you hardly can expect stellar performance from it.

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juanmaasecas Senior Member • Posts: 1,497
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

Nymph wrote:

I've done portrait photography for 7+ years, but I'm new to using Canon.
I got this camera just over a month ago, but have already taken thousands of photos - and a LOT of them I have had to throw out due to the eye detect AF being wrong; or at least my understanding of it being wrong.
I'm on a fully updated R6 / RF 50mm 1.8 lens.
I know the 1.8 is very soft but I have used the lens at different apertures lots and it still seems to be the autofocus giving me issues. I shoot mainly outdoors in optimal lighting, low ISO, high-ish shutter speeds.
My main confusion begins with the eye and face tracking, it can show me that it's detected an eye -- I can take the photo -- and then when I zoom in to the focal point on the image I've taken it's not focused on the eye, it's focused on something else on the face or even sometimes not the face at all. I recently turned off the square that shows the focal point in playback, but when I had it turned on it would even show that the square was over the eye, when the photo was most definitely not focused on or anywhere near the eye.
...Am I misunderstanding what the eye/facial tracking is?
...When the square shows up that it's detected a face/eye, as I'm half-pressing, does that not mean the photo will come out focused on that square? It looks like it's focused in that area, until I snap a photo.
This is even more-so an issue if I'm taking a few photos back to back.
I have switched between drive modes - single, burst, etc. As soon as I've taken the first photo in focus, it's like it restarts the AF. I have to stop, re-focus, and take another photo - I can't just shoot multiple photos at once even if the camera and the subject have not moved (even with a tripod.) If I have moved, or if I'm shooting an animal who has started walking towards me, it doesn't stay locked on to the face as I'm taking pictures. It doesn't re-focus onto it automatically, and I can keep half-pressing and shooting as it's moving towards me, it never figures it out and re-focuses/locks back onto the face even though I KNOW it detected it initially.
I dont know how many times I have switched settings, but currently mine look like this:
AF operation: Servo (I have tried one shot, don't really understand the difference but every forum says to use servo?)
AF method: Face Detect
Subject to detect: I have always made sure to switch it respectively between people and animals
Continuous AF: Disabled (Every thing I have found online says to disable as it causes focus issues, I've used it enabled and didn't find it to make anything worse)
I have switched the "Case" for the Servo AF mode (page 3 of AF settings) to try all of them and haven't noticed a difference, right now I've been testing it on "subjects that accelerate or decelerate quickly but haven't had good enough weather to test it out properly."
I want to say nearly 70% or more of photos I take will be out of focus, either completely or just enough that the face is blurry in the wrong spots. If I'm in relatively low-lighting/gloomy day/etc and I have to be in a higher ISO it tends to be even worse, but I'm finding this issue even on very well-lit days, even when I have used external lights. If I am trying to be fast-paced nearly ALL of my photos will be out of focus.
Is this just how it is and it's still considered "spectacular" ...or am I missing something that every other Canon R6 user does?

Maybe it’s a problem with the lens. My Rf 50 1.8 is decentered (actually tilted) and it focuses fine in the left half of the picture but it’s always front focusing in the right half, and hunting a lot when trying to focus in that area. When shooting in portrait orientation I hold the camera the inverse way (with the shutter button down) to get sharper eyes.

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Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?
4

First, the RF 50 F1.8 is not very soft. This is a myth. Here's a nearly wide open shot:

And here's a 100% crop from that image:

This was taken on the R using eye detect and servo. I find it very easy to get sharp images with the R using eye detect, with all my lenses. The 50 is my cheapest RF lens, but it's still capable of good results. If you are struggling to get results as sharp as this, you either have a bad copy of the 50 or something is wrong with your R6. The AF on the R6 should be even better than on the R, or certainly at least as good for easy subjects (maybe the improvements are all for moving subjects). Of course, if you consider this soft, then maybe it's your expectations that are the problem.

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zzip Regular Member • Posts: 136
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

Alastair Norcross wrote:

First, the RF 50 F1.8 is not very sof eye detect and servo.

servo on a static target is one thing, servo on a moving target with STM motor is a different thing - it may or may not be fast enough based on how target moves (in his use case)... plus OP was not using eye detect

OP Nymph New Member • Posts: 2
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

AlanChown wrote:

I assume you are using the full sensor tracking area and not switched to one of the smaller or spot zones. Eye AF only works on the full sensor tracking zone.

Continuous AF is irrelevant, it just means literally what it says, the camera will continue to focus all the time it's on without touching any focussing buttons. So should be off for the vast majority of us.

Are you referring to “AF methods”? I have everything off except for face tracking and spot AF. The eye AF still works with my settings, as it’s showing me it’s detected the eye, and it has done it successfully in photos, it’s just very hit or miss and inaccurate.

Croomrider Contributing Member • Posts: 822
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?
1

Nymph wrote:

AlanChown wrote:

I assume you are using the full sensor tracking area and not switched to one of the smaller or spot zones. Eye AF only works on the full sensor tracking zone.

Continuous AF is irrelevant, it just means literally what it says, the camera will continue to focus all the time it's on without touching any focussing buttons. So should be off for the vast majority of us.

Are you referring to “AF methods”? I have everything off except for face tracking and spot AF. The eye AF still works with my settings, as it’s showing me it’s detected the eye, and it has done it successfully in photos, it’s just very hit or miss and inaccurate.

Off of my R5 firmware V1.5.2

Menu

AF Page 1

AF operation [SERVO AF]

AF method [leftmost selection]

Subject to detect [People]

Eye Detection [Enable]

Continuous AF [Disable]

This works like a champ and almost NEVER misses eye focus. However, I do not own the lens you are using. The menu settings may not be exactly the same on the R6, but they should be close.

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Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?
1

zzip wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

First, the RF 50 F1.8 is not very sof eye detect and servo.

servo on a static target is one thing, servo on a moving target with STM motor is a different thing - it may or may not be fast enough based on how target moves (in his use case)...

That's true. The servo on the 50 with the R is fast enough for most runners. If his targets were Olympic sprinters, it might not be fast enough.

plus OP was not using eye detect

The subject line of the post suggests otherwise.

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zzip Regular Member • Posts: 136
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

Alastair Norcross wrote:

zzip wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

First, the RF 50 F1.8 is not very sof eye detect and servo.

servo on a static target is one thing, servo on a moving target with STM motor is a different thing - it may or may not be fast enough based on how target moves (in his use case)...

That's true. The servo on the 50 with the R is fast enough for most runners.

really as in close up as @ 1-3 meter - not at like 50 meters from ...  I have R5 and RF50/1.8 btw, so I speak from my experience...

plus OP was not using eye detect

The subject line of the post suggests otherwise.

read the post = "AF method: Face Detect"... so no eye AF was used then, just the face and wide open it is no the same

Canon_Guy
Canon_Guy Senior Member • Posts: 1,486
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

Well from my experience, when a subject moves steadily in one direction (e.g. approaching car), the 50/1.8 catches up quite well.

Once the movement is more erratic, in all directions (playing dogs), the hit rate of 50/1.8 is noticeably lower than with faster focusing lens (70-200/2.8 II).

It is not about the speed of focus motor movement only but also about the speed of its reactions, the minimum step of single movement and their combination.

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Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

zzip wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

zzip wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

First, the RF 50 F1.8 is not very sof eye detect and servo.

servo on a static target is one thing, servo on a moving target with STM motor is a different thing - it may or may not be fast enough based on how target moves (in his use case)...

That's true. The servo on the 50 with the R is fast enough for most runners.

really as in close up as @ 1-3 meter - not at like 50 meters from ... I have R5 and RF50/1.8 btw, so I speak from my experience...

And I have the R and RF 50, so I also speak from my experience. I didn't get the impression from the posts that the subjects were moving particularly fast or erratically, but the OP can clarify.

plus OP was not using eye detect

The subject line of the post suggests otherwise.

read the post = "AF method: Face Detect"... so no eye AF was used then, just the face and wide open it is no the same

It was obvious from the follow-up that eye detect was on: "The eye AF still works with my settings, as it’s showing me it’s detected the eye, and it has done it successfully in photos, it’s just very hit or miss and inaccurate."

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juanmaasecas Senior Member • Posts: 1,497
Re: Is Canon R6 eye detect not that good, or am I missing something?

Try to focus in other side of the frame. My rf 50 1.8 focuses accurately in the left side, but it front focuses in the right side. If that is the case, you might just have a subpar copy as I do.

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