I tried a mirrorless. Have you?

Mark Ransom wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

The manual discussion started when I asked what en EVF really do. Something I cannot find in manuals. I am totally serious. It do not tell. You just have to assume it do somethin sensible.

Some people say that with an EVF you can see the the picture as it is recorded.

Then I ask: can you?

So, if I set the camera on 5 stops under exposure, then the EVF is black? Is that so? Maybe it is, the manual do not tell.

I agree, that's one thing that is hard to know. And the answer will be inconsistent from camera to camera.

I found from experience that the Panasonic GX85 does not show accurate exposure in the viewfinder. Changing the exposure dramatically makes no difference in the viewfinder. I believe the manual mentions it, because this surprised me so much I thought it must be a bad setting or camera flaw until I discovered it was supposed to be that way.

I know that the Olympus E-M5 II does show accurate exposure because I experienced it just today. I tried to adapt one of my K-mount lenses to it, but the lens didn't have an aperture ring so it defaulted to fully stopped down. I knew immediately because the viewfinder was dark from underexposure.

Exactly!

And as I wrote above, I can imagine three possible ways the EVF may work.

• Optimize being a useful finder
• Simulate an OVF
• Show how the image is going to be exposed

True .. but K-3 III is quite bad as well. Pentax needs a new battery system with higher capacity.

Best,

M

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Sjak wrote:

If (in my opinion) something else is at least as badas the K-1 manual, this implies the K-1 is not the worst The reason for mentioning the K-1 manual: I assumed that for the users here, a Pentax-manual might be a more useful reference than e.g. mentioning a Fuji-manual.

So an accusation of product bashing is unfounded.

But we were talking EVF's, and how nice these have become in recent years, and what differences there are between OVF and EVF.

The manual discussion started when I asked what en EVF really do. Something I cannot find in manuals. I am totally serious. It do not tell. You just have to assume it do somethin sensible.

Some people say that with an EVF you can see the the picture as it is recorded.

Then I ask: can you?

So, if I set the camera on 5 stops under exposure, then the EVF is black? Is that so? Maybe it is, the manual do not tell.

And actually, there is a similar situation for auto programs. What do they do? The manual do absolutely not not tell. And what do multi zone exposure metering do? Not a word about that.

The manual is good for finding all settings and what they "do". But, if the settings are complex, the manual say nothing.

I can't say for other cameras, but with my Fuji X-H1, you select the behavior. If you are shooting with flash, then the feature needs to be turned off so the viewfinder isn't black while composing.

GossCTP wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Sjak wrote:

If (in my opinion) something else is at least as badas the K-1 manual, this implies the K-1 is not the worst The reason for mentioning the K-1 manual: I assumed that for the users here, a Pentax-manual might be a more useful reference than e.g. mentioning a Fuji-manual.

So an accusation of product bashing is unfounded.

But we were talking EVF's, and how nice these have become in recent years, and what differences there are between OVF and EVF.

The manual discussion started when I asked what en EVF really do. Something I cannot find in manuals. I am totally serious. It do not tell. You just have to assume it do somethin sensible.

Some people say that with an EVF you can see the the picture as it is recorded.

Then I ask: can you?

So, if I set the camera on 5 stops under exposure, then the EVF is black? Is that so? Maybe it is, the manual do not tell.

And actually, there is a similar situation for auto programs. What do they do? The manual do absolutely not not tell. And what do multi zone exposure metering do? Not a word about that.

The manual is good for finding all settings and what they "do". But, if the settings are complex, the manual say nothing.

I can't say for other cameras, but with my Fuji X-H1, you select the behavior. If you are shooting with flash, then the feature needs to be turned off so the viewfinder isn't black while composing.

Nice

I guess "the feature" is "see image as recorded" or is it "OVF simulation" ?

AlainCo wrote:

Phil A Martin wrote:

robgendreau wrote:

Maybe some people would be happy with the X100 cameras. You've got both an EVF AND an OVF in the same place and can switch back and forth. Quite fun. And shows more than a K-1 in the OVF.

I don't deny it sounds great fun but you ignore the fact that they're fixed lens cameras and more importantly you ignore the OVF Parallax Error, which has always been the issue with rangefinder type cameras and the prime reason SLRs were developed in the first place.

I guess there are two ways to look at it; either you consider the fixed lens as an hindrance, or as an opportunity to surpass oneself. As far as parallax is concerned, it never prevented Henry Cartier-Bresson from taking pictures, and remain adamant that they should be printed uncropped...

Parallax problems are not important at a distance. It is only for e.g. portraits and close ups it is important. Leica has parallax compensation, as I assume X100 also has.

The major problem with range finders is close ups. Not really its forte. Also, for interchangeable lens cameras, it is problems with (long) tele lenses.

Phil A Martin wrote:

MarBa wrote:

True .. but K-3 III is quite bad as well. Pentax needs a new battery system with higher capacity.

Best,

M

Bad? What do you mean by bad? Admittedly the KP battery life has been compromised to reduce size but my K5, K3 and K1ii are pretty good. What makes the K3iii worse than the three I own?

My K-3 III is for sure worse than K1 that I have (I simply mean how many pictures I can take or for how long I can use the camera before I see empty battery). And both are worse than what I remember for K-7. So .. it's getting to the point that it would be nice to have a new battery.

With K-7, I did not think about battery at all ... with K-1, I want to make sure it is charged before a full day of shooting but then I know it will be OK .. with K-3 III, I know I have to worry about this a bit as I can easily deplete the battery in less than a day.

Best,

M

Roland Karlsson wrote:

GossCTP wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Sjak wrote:

If (in my opinion) something else is at least as badas the K-1 manual, this implies the K-1 is not the worst The reason for mentioning the K-1 manual: I assumed that for the users here, a Pentax-manual might be a more useful reference than e.g. mentioning a Fuji-manual.

So an accusation of product bashing is unfounded.

But we were talking EVF's, and how nice these have become in recent years, and what differences there are between OVF and EVF.

The manual discussion started when I asked what en EVF really do. Something I cannot find in manuals. I am totally serious. It do not tell. You just have to assume it do somethin sensible.

Some people say that with an EVF you can see the the picture as it is recorded.

Then I ask: can you?

So, if I set the camera on 5 stops under exposure, then the EVF is black? Is that so? Maybe it is, the manual do not tell.

And actually, there is a similar situation for auto programs. What do they do? The manual do absolutely not not tell. And what do multi zone exposure metering do? Not a word about that.

The manual is good for finding all settings and what they "do". But, if the settings are complex, the manual say nothing.

I can't say for other cameras, but with my Fuji X-H1, you select the behavior. If you are shooting with flash, then the feature needs to be turned off so the viewfinder isn't black while composing.

Nice

I guess "the feature" is "see image as recorded" or is it "OVF simulation" ?

Fuji calls it exposure preview. It can be assigned to a button toggle it without menu diving. I wouldn't think of it as OVF simulation, as it is nothing like using an ovf in that mode. When the preview is turned off, it basically divorces the exposure settings from the EVF brightness. The EVF will display the same scene as if the preview was turned on and the meter was set to the proper exposure. This means that it will still show a bright EVF in dark ambient conditions, even if it is set to -ev values for flash photography.

Phil A Martin wrote:

MarBa wrote:

True .. but K-3 III is quite bad as well. Pentax needs a new battery system with higher capacity.

Best,

M

Bad? What do you mean by bad? Admittedly the KP battery life has been compromised to reduce size but my K5, K3 and K1ii are pretty good. What makes the K3iii worse than the three I own?

The rear display (touch screen) on the K-3iii seems to draw a bit of power.  If you minimize its use you are fine.

Doug

Phil A Martin wrote:

DougOB wrote:

Phil A Martin wrote:

MarBa wrote:

True .. but K-3 III is quite bad as well. Pentax needs a new battery system with higher capacity.

Best,

M

Bad? What do you mean by bad? Admittedly the KP battery life has been compromised to reduce size but my K5, K3 and K1ii are pretty good. What makes the K3iii worse than the three I own?

The rear display (touch screen) on the K-3iii seems to draw a bit of power. If you minimize its use you are fine.

Right, I can see how that might happen. My KP literally eats batteries in live mode, it must be similar.

Doug

I deactivated the preview post capture, and I usually don't increase back LCD brightness (or if I need to, I switch it back to default setting quickly), and honestly doing this I never had to worry about the battery of K3III. Ok I also don't use the BT/wifi connectivity or geotagging, that probably helps.

I know for sure if I don't use the live view I can take approx 1000 photos on full battery - with live view it's much less of course, you're right it eats battery quickly in this mode.

JeremieB wrote:

I deactivated the preview post capture, and I usually don't increase back LCD brightness (or if I need to, I switch it back to default setting quickly), and honestly doing this I never had to worry about the battery of K3III. Ok I also don't use the BT/wifi connectivity or geotagging, that probably helps.

I know for sure if I don't use the live view I can take approx 1000 photos on full battery - with live view it's much less of course, you're right it eats battery quickly in this mode.

I didn't know the K-3 III could do geotagging.  Does it use Bluetooth for that?

Mark Ransom wrote:

JeremieB wrote:

I deactivated the preview post capture, and I usually don't increase back LCD brightness (or if I need to, I switch it back to default setting quickly), and honestly doing this I never had to worry about the battery of K3III. Ok I also don't use the BT/wifi connectivity or geotagging, that probably helps.

I know for sure if I don't use the live view I can take approx 1000 photos on full battery - with live view it's much less of course, you're right it eats battery quickly in this mode.

I didn't know the K-3 III could do geotagging. Does it use Bluetooth for that?

It uses Bluetooth to establish the wireless connection to a smartphone, then it can geotag images based on location provided by the phone. It's an option in the Image Sync application that runs on the phone (so, you're not forced to geotag images either). I think though that you need wifi connection established (Bluetooth alone is not enough, and used merely to bootstrap the wifi connection).

It's not as easy and comfortable as a GPS embedded in the camera, but when you succeed with the connectivity, it works.

JeremieB wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

JeremieB wrote:

I deactivated the preview post capture, and I usually don't increase back LCD brightness (or if I need to, I switch it back to default setting quickly), and honestly doing this I never had to worry about the battery of K3III. Ok I also don't use the BT/wifi connectivity or geotagging, that probably helps.

I know for sure if I don't use the live view I can take approx 1000 photos on full battery - with live view it's much less of course, you're right it eats battery quickly in this mode.

I didn't know the K-3 III could do geotagging. Does it use Bluetooth for that?

It uses Bluetooth to establish the wireless connection to a smartphone, then it can geotag images based on location provided by the phone. It's an option in the Image Sync application that runs on the phone (so, you're not forced to geotag images either). I think though that you need wifi connection established (Bluetooth alone is not enough, and used merely to bootstrap the wifi connection).

By the way as discussed here, one would have a hard time understanding what is connected and when to get a specific feature or how it works precisely just by reading the manual ...

It's not as easy and comfortable as a GPS embedded in the camera, but when you succeed with the connectivity, it works.

JeremieB wrote:

JeremieB wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

JeremieB wrote:

I deactivated the preview post capture, and I usually don't increase back LCD brightness (or if I need to, I switch it back to default setting quickly), and honestly doing this I never had to worry about the battery of K3III. Ok I also don't use the BT/wifi connectivity or geotagging, that probably helps.

I know for sure if I don't use the live view I can take approx 1000 photos on full battery - with live view it's much less of course, you're right it eats battery quickly in this mode.

I didn't know the K-3 III could do geotagging. Does it use Bluetooth for that?

It uses Bluetooth to establish the wireless connection to a smartphone, then it can geotag images based on location provided by the phone. It's an option in the Image Sync application that runs on the phone (so, you're not forced to geotag images either). I think though that you need wifi connection established (Bluetooth alone is not enough, and used merely to bootstrap the wifi connection).

By the way as discussed here, one would have a hard time understanding what is connected and when to get a specific feature or how it works precisely just by reading the manual ...

There is the seperate K-3iii Wireless Communications Guide manual which provides a bit more detail.

Doug

It's not as easy and comfortable as a GPS embedded in the camera, but when you succeed with the connectivity, it works.