Panasonic DC-GH6 Sensor Measurements at PhotonsToPhotos

I look at the studio scene RAW conversions. Ask yourself if the difference between models is really that drastic. What if you scale the 25mp images down to 20 and compare to the OM-1 or other MFT cameras? Would it make a difference in your photography?

I'd get the GH6 if I had a collection of MFT lenses and wanted to get more into video. Looking at the sample gallery it is a pretty good photo shooter but would lean to the OM-1 for straight photo work.

Simon97 wrote:

I look at the studio scene RAW conversions. Ask yourself if the difference between models is really that drastic. What if you scale the 25mp images down to 20 and compare to the OM-1 or other MFT cameras? Would it make a difference in your photography?

I'd get the GH6 if I had a collection of MFT lenses and wanted to get more into video. Looking at the sample gallery it is a pretty good photo shooter but would lean to the OM-1 for straight photo work.

Yes, the gh6 and om1 look about equal in the studio scene.  In fact I think gh6(scaled) actually looks a bit better at higher ISO e.g. 6400.  In my use, stills look fine as long as I'm careful with how the shot is exposed.  However, what I'm also seeing is the issue outlined in the dpreview article about gh6 low ISO DR.  If I have to raise shadows, it quickly becomes noisy.  Example I've run into is a subject in front of a bright window.  It has taken some practice to get a shot like this which can be processed decently.

Pete Berry wrote:

And that reminds me: my almost 5 year old G9 sensor still rules the m4/3 DR roost along with it's use in the more recent GH5-II if you're into the top-dog sensor thing... I do like the larger GH6 stills files, along with the excellent HHHR implementation.

Somehow it seems the GH6 HHHRS doesn't suppress noise like Olympus HHHRS. This needs to be confirmed by someone who owns both.

Also we need to know if the OM-1 HHHRS is as good as E-M1 III HHHRS because they went down to 12 stacked photos from 16. Why would they do this ? if anything, they should've increased the number of stacked photos to increase resolution and noise suppression.

JakeJY wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

JakeJY wrote:

dbateman wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

hmmm, what a disaster for Panasonic... GH6 scores worse than the OM-1 and and last gen EM1-2 and 3...

You don't seem to know how to read that graph. This is quite good for a very fast front side illuminated higher resolution sensor optimized for video. If anything the OM-1 isn't looking quite as good as it should. The Em1mk2 needs to be corrected to the right 1/3 a stop due to gain choices. The stacked nature of the Om-1 semsor is hurting significantly any gains from being BSI, and its still very slow read out sensor compared to even the GH6.

I can see why now Panasonic choose this sensor over the Sony stacked BSI one. Its better.

FYI the sensor readout of the OM1 is 120fps, the fastest in M43. The GH6 is only 75fps.

Readout in fps depends on bit depth and pixel count

120x20.2x12=29088

75x25x16=30000

Under ISO 800 it doesn't look to have anything that requires 16 bit. From the results, it looks like that would even fit in 10 bit (the results from latitude test are consistent with the G95 in 10-bit mode, perhaps even a bit worse).

If you drop the bit depth to 12 bits you get 100 fps at 25 megapixels if you bin downwards you get to the same point

The camera have different objectives and design principles and can't really be compared

When it's doing the dual output gain the stream into the ISP may be even more than 16 bits total, but that is hardly relevant to the max fps the sensor can do. I doubt your claim it can do 100 fps at 25MP in 12 bit, as Panasonic does not offer that mode at all.

All video modes are read at 12 bits and scaled to 10 in the process.

The camera is limited at the compression stage not readout for video

Dspider wrote:

question for interceptor, are the files on the new gh6 slightly more noisier than the g9 ?

Ds

I did not measure the G9 although I had it however when I look at the GH5M2 which is identical I read the following digital noise on my own dark frames (which are the same Bill has for GH5M2 and GH6)

GH5M2 ISO 200 0.686 DN

GH6 ISO 100 44.681 DN

Noise Ratio at base = 44.681/0.686 = 65 c 6 stops more

So not just a bit a lot more. The GH5M2 files did not have any noise reduction

I am guessing Panasonic scratched their head with the sole objective of finding a way to give high dynamic range in VLOG video all the rest was secondary. They have achieved that objective and left the still performance aside.

Features like the HR shots are in my view tokens as they accomplish the same DR of a standard shot with the GH5M2 at base ISO. At ISO 800 they become interesting however I doubt anybody has that use case as primary

Dspider wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

Dspider wrote:

question for interceptor, are the files on the new gh6 slightly more noisier than the g9 ?

Ds

I did not measure the G9 although I had it however when I look at the GH5M2 which is identical I read the following digital noise on my own dark frames (which are the same Bill has for GH5M2 and GH6)

GH5M2 ISO 200 0.686 DN

GH6 ISO 100 44.681 DN

Noise Ratio at base = 44.681/0.686 = 65 c 6 stops more

So not just a bit a lot more. The GH5M2 files did not have any noise reduction

i just had a good look at the g9 and gh52 files and they show NR to the raw files . They are cleaner than the gh6 but then the gh6 jpgs run rings around the g9 and gh52 files for noise and detail.

There is no noise reduction the GH5M2 or G9 raw files. Past 12800 it uses digital scaling

I am guessing Panasonic scratched their head with the sole objective of finding a way to give high dynamic range in VLOG video all the rest was secondary. They have achieved that objective and left the still performance aside.

Features like the HR shots are in my view tokens as they accomplish the same DR of a standard shot with the GH5M2 at base ISO. At ISO 800 they become interesting however I doubt anybody has that use case as primary

Dspider wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

Dspider wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

Dspider wrote:

question for interceptor, are the files on the new gh6 slightly more noisier than the g9 ?

Ds

I did not measure the G9 although I had it however when I look at the GH5M2 which is identical I read the following digital noise on my own dark frames (which are the same Bill has for GH5M2 and GH6)

GH5M2 ISO 200 0.686 DN

GH6 ISO 100 44.681 DN

Noise Ratio at base = 44.681/0.686 = 65 c 6 stops more

So not just a bit a lot more. The GH5M2 files did not have any noise reduction

i just had a good look at the g9 and gh52 files and they show NR to the raw files . They are cleaner than the gh6 but then the gh6 jpgs run rings around the g9 and gh52 files for noise and detail.

There is no noise reduction the GH5M2 or G9 raw files. Past 12800 it uses digital scaling

all cameras have baked in noise reduction in raw files, they have been doing it for 10 years. if you look at the raw files you took of your monitor for bill and flick through them you can pick the exposure inconsistencies and file manipulation with your eyes

Ds

Nope. The files are taken at identical exposure. You confuse exposure tuning with noise reduction they are different things. Bill does a good value at detecting noise reduction you can see it in his charts. His tests ignore the camera exposure anyway that is a separate topic altogether

I am guessing Panasonic scratched their head with the sole objective of finding a way to give high dynamic range in VLOG video all the rest was secondary. They have achieved that objective and left the still performance aside.

Features like the HR shots are in my view tokens as they accomplish the same DR of a standard shot with the GH5M2 at base ISO. At ISO 800 they become interesting however I doubt anybody has that use case as primary

Funny Valentine wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

hmmm, what a disaster for Panasonic... GH6 scores worse than the OM-1 and and last gen EM1-2 and 3...

This camera is not designed with still photography in mind.

But Panasonic's limited r&d already went into the development/purchase of this sensor from tower semi, so it will end up in the next gen G9, GX9, etc. Or maybe it's a sign that Panasonic will axe the photocentric cameras to concentrate on video only.

Should this be the case then the G9 will be my  A cam for quite a bit.

Felice62 wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

hmmm, what a disaster for Panasonic... GH6 scores worse than the OM-1 and and last gen EM1-2 and 3...

This camera is not designed with still photography in mind.

But Panasonic's limited r&d already went into the development/purchase of this sensor from tower semi, so it will end up in the next gen G9, GX9, etc. Or maybe it's a sign that Panasonic will axe the photocentric cameras to concentrate on video only.

Should this be the case then the G9 will be my A cam for quite a bit.

What is the chance that Funny Valentine knows what is Panasonic R&D budget?

Interceptor121 wrote:

Felice62 wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

hmmm, what a disaster for Panasonic... GH6 scores worse than the OM-1 and and last gen EM1-2 and 3...

This camera is not designed with still photography in mind.

But Panasonic's limited r&d already went into the development/purchase of this sensor from tower semi, so it will end up in the next gen G9, GX9, etc. Or maybe it's a sign that Panasonic will axe the photocentric cameras to concentrate on video only.

Should this be the case then the G9 will be my A cam for quite a bit.

What is the chance that Funny Valentine knows what is Panasonic R&D budget?

That i don't know, of course. But my point remains, should it be true I can continue using the G9 for quite a long time.

If I had even minor video needs the gh6 would have  been already part of my gear.

F

Felice62 wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

Felice62 wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Funny Valentine wrote:

hmmm, what a disaster for Panasonic... GH6 scores worse than the OM-1 and and last gen EM1-2 and 3...

This camera is not designed with still photography in mind.

But Panasonic's limited r&d already went into the development/purchase of this sensor from tower semi, so it will end up in the next gen G9, GX9, etc. Or maybe it's a sign that Panasonic will axe the photocentric cameras to concentrate on video only.

Should this be the case then the G9 will be my A cam for quite a bit.

What is the chance that Funny Valentine knows what is Panasonic R&D budget?

That i don't know, of course. But my point remains, should it be true I can continue using the G9 for quite a long time.

If I had even minor video needs the gh6 would have been already part of my gear.

F

Nobody knows the future. The key question is if Panasonic thinks MFT still makes sense for stills or it is all about full frame. We do not know the answer to that question

With regards to image quality even the OM-1 does not provide any step forward while in terms of functionality it does

Dspider wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

Dspider wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

Dspider wrote:

Interceptor121 wrote:

Dspider wrote:

question for interceptor, are the files on the new gh6 slightly more noisier than the g9 ?

Ds

I did not measure the G9 although I had it however when I look at the GH5M2 which is identical I read the following digital noise on my own dark frames (which are the same Bill has for GH5M2 and GH6)

GH5M2 ISO 200 0.686 DN

GH6 ISO 100 44.681 DN

Noise Ratio at base = 44.681/0.686 = 65 c 6 stops more

So not just a bit a lot more. The GH5M2 files did not have any noise reduction

i just had a good look at the g9 and gh52 files and they show NR to the raw files . They are cleaner than the gh6 but then the gh6 jpgs run rings around the g9 and gh52 files for noise and detail.

There is no noise reduction the GH5M2 or G9 raw files. Past 12800 it uses digital scaling

all cameras have baked in noise reduction in raw files, they have been doing it for 10 years. if you look at the raw files you took of your monitor for bill and flick through them you can pick the exposure inconsistencies and file manipulation with your eyes

Ds

Nope. The files are taken at identical exposure. You confuse exposure tuning with noise reduction they are different things. Bill does a good value at detecting noise reduction you can see it in his charts. His tests ignore the camera exposure anyway that is a separate topic altogether

my advice would be have a good look at dpr samples, you dont need bills chart to tell the storey, because it follows there images. the fact that the gh6 raws are noisier up to iso 800 then lower at iso 1600 but still flog the g9 at jpegs is a dead givaway that the raws of the g9 have already been manipulated. other wise the jpegs would be better as well below iso 1600 but they are not.

I am guessing Panasonic scratched their head with the sole objective of finding a way to give high dynamic range in VLOG video all the rest was secondary. They have achieved that objective and left the still performance aside.

Features like the HR shots are in my view tokens as they accomplish the same DR of a standard shot with the GH5M2 at base ISO. At ISO 800 they become interesting however I doubt anybody has that use case as primary

Nope you have no idea. The reason why there is less noise visible after is how the camera manages gain.

Also a visual inspection by the eye of a sample of dpreview will show nothing in fact even if you shoot an image you are unlikely to see anything in normal circumstances

I thought you had more scientific base to back-up your statements but  you don't so I recommend you take the lead from Bill who has been around a while and checks data not a random image by the eye to draw conclusions

Some full frame camera do have noise reduction at low ISO that is not the case of MFT sensors

NoSasaeng wrote:

This might be a bit of a stupid question but it says:

"Open symbols indicate values outside the normal analog range"
I've always taken this as like the extended ISO on other cameras. This holds true for the G9 for example. The symbol is closed for ISO 200 and open for any ISO below that since that's the extended ISO. But on the GH6 it is open starting from ISOs below 800, while from my understanding it's ISO 100 and ISO 800 native? So shouldn't ISO 100 to 800 scale kinda similar like 800 to 25600? And the symbol be closed for ISO 100 to 25600?

No question is a stupid question. This camera is really not conventional

The base ISO value that has been designed to work optimally is 800. What happens below that value is suboptimal it may result in increase dynamic range but is not the range the camera is working at its best