Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Started 7 months ago | Questions
Sjak
Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Hey everyone,

Due to a change in projects, which will also include some video, I consider getting an L-mount camera. My current cameras either dont have any video at all (Monochrom) or barely (K-1&K-50)

The S1 or S1R seem the best option, and I've handled the R at a camera store. Very well built, great EVF, comfortable ergnomics, logical layout of buttons and switches; in some ways quite comparable to the K-1. I've also downloaded some S1&S1Rraw-files and these are very nice and malleable. An added bonus is the nice selection of native lenses in different price-segments and from 3 manufacturers, which puts the L ahead of the Canon & Nikon options in that respect.

One thing I have not found much about is the experience of adapted manual lenses on the S1(R).

Can anyone share some experiences? Or point me to some online sources, such as video demos?

Thanks a lot!

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Diacyclops81 Contributing Member • Posts: 605
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

No, but I too am interested in the responses, including use of manual focus adapted lenses on the S5 as well as the S1 and others. The S1H is the more video centric model I believe, but the S5 definitely the price leader…although it doesn’t have the build or EVF of the S1’s.

Alun Thomas Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
1

I have an S1, which I bought for an excellent mark down price after my Sony A7II failed.

It's a good camera, but has a few quirks which do mar the experience a little for an adapted lens user.

The bad:

The 'Constant Preview' function allows you to see in the viewfinder a representation of how your chosen exposure settings will work out, which I generally use in manual focus mode. However the implementation of the feature is flawed. When you are trying to do long exposures in lowlight, the update of the view takes the same amount of time as the exposure setting, making it more or less unusable for focussing and framing the shot. You need to disable the setting, set the focus etc, then later re-enable it to check the exposure chosen. I set up a custom button to quickly do this and still haven't found a better work around. As is it severely impedes the workflow.

Histogram - I like to use this as well to get a visual indicator of exposure. Unfortunately it is put in the very center of the viewfinder, other cameras put it down in the corner. I know there isn't a perfect place, but I prefer not in the center. If there's a way to move it I haven't found it.

IBIS - the S1 has it, but persists in asking for the focal length of the manual lens every single time you power on the camera. This quickly gets boring, to the point I just disabled IBIS and assigned a custom button to turn it on if I need it.

USB connection - likewise, every single time you plug in the cable to transfer files, it asks you what you want to do. I've only ever chosen one option and can't see why I can't just preset that option and have it start automatically.

The design inside the camera flange is more restrictive than other makes, you cannot use a Jupiter 12 biogon copy on this camera, and I presume not the original biogon either.

The good:

Great viewfinder

Focus magnification view - you can use the shutter speed control in this mode to alter the magnification level - very cool.

The histogram changes colour even in manual exposure mode, to tell you that the cameras inbuilt exposure calculator thinks this setting gives correct exposure - a good backup.

Buttons for Africa - you can set up custom buttons to do most things, and there are also loads of controls, i.e. for drive mode, which took quite a bit of discovery to work out where everything was.

Fully electronic shutter - After the shutter died on the Sony, I use this most of the time, even though the S1 has a heavy duty shutter design rated for double the activation count of most consumer cameras.

Time lapse as a standard feature - not that I've used it, but was noticeably missing from my previous camera.

The pixel shift high resolution mode - haven't used this either, but still a cool feature.

The build quality. Although it's a heavy camera, if you just want to buy a high quality camera and keep it, as opposed to constantly trading up, this camera is one that I get the feeling will last and last.

All up it's a decent camera, but it took a bit of getting used to after using a Sony, which in my opinion is actually easier to use for adapted lenses once set up for it. I never owned an auto focus lens for either mount, and treat the camera body as almost purely a digital back, and just need it to get in the way as little as possible.

I'm actually hoping another Panasonic user who has spent a considerable time with theirs can let me know if there's any way to work around some of the annoyances I've listed above.

Alun Thomas Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
1

Forgot to mention - no low pass filter. This could be good or bad for a 24MP sensor, but I was hoping it would give better results with older lenses, especially rangefinder lenses. In actual fact I didn't notice much, if any difference, but have not yet done exhaustive testing. I would be interested to see what other found when they used them.

Sjak
OP Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Alun Thomas wrote:

Thanks for your very elaborate answer, very helpful!

The 'Constant Preview' function allows you to see in the viewfinder a representation of how your chosen exposure settings will work out, which I generally use in manual focus mode. However the implementation of the feature is flawed. When you are trying to do long exposures in lowlight, the update of the view takes the same amount of time as the exposure setting, making it more or less unusable for focussing and framing the shot. You need to disable the setting, set the focus etc, then later re-enable it to check the exposure chosen. I set up a custom button to quickly do this and still haven't found a better work around. As is it severely impedes the workflow.

Good to know, I don't do much long exposures, but I do lots of low-light.

IBIS - the S1 has it, but persists in asking for the focal length of the manual lens every single time you power on the camera. This quickly gets boring, to the point I just disabled IBIS and assigned a custom button to turn it on if I need it.

My Pentaxes do this too, but the camera retains the last set value.

I've just found a video, where the youtuber had set 3 values for the focal length to pick from (when he is on a 3-lens-shoot); I can't comment if his approach is practical, or even how it works, but here's the link: https://youtu.be/GbW2tw6vsMc?t=891

USB connection - likewise, every single time you plug in the cable to transfer files, it asks you what you want to do. I've only ever chosen one option and can't see why I can't just preset that option and have it start automatically.

The USB-connection was the 1st thing to break on a few past cameras. Since then I simply remove the SD-card and put it in the PC.

The design inside the camera flange is more restrictive than other makes, you cannot use a Jupiter 12 biogon copy on this camera, and I presume not the original biogon either.

No biggie, I have a digital M for rangefinder-lenses, but others might be interested.

Great viewfinder

Yes, I've even found a reviewer who didn't even need the magnified view.

The histogram changes colour even in manual exposure mode, to tell you that the cameras inbuilt exposure calculator thinks this setting gives correct exposure - a good backup.

This is really nice indeed!

Buttons for Africa - you can set up custom buttons to do most things, and there are also loads of controls, i.e. for drive mode, which took quite a bit of discovery to work out where everything was.

Yeah, a bit like the K-1. It's both a good thing and a curse. For street, candid, pub&club I'd typically use the M, as the brutal simplicity is a big bonus in those situations. The K-1 and S1(R) are for about everything else.

Fully electronic shutter - After the shutter died on the Sony, I use this most of the time, even though the S1 has a heavy duty shutter design rated for double the activation count of most consumer cameras.

Time lapse as a standard feature - not that I've used it, but was noticeably missing from my previous camera.

The pixel shift high resolution mode - haven't used this either, but still a cool feature.

I think this is an area where the panny has actually less features than the K-1; at least I haven't found any references to composition adjustment, astrotracer (never used it myself) and automatic horizon correction, all achieved using the IBIS-movements. Probably I'll need to adapt to the lack of horizon correction. The composition adjustment is nice as well but I could do without; it allows small shifts of the sensor for getting optimal framing, when tripod/ballhead adjustments lack precision.

The build quality. Although it's a heavy camera, if you just want to buy a high quality camera and keep it, as opposed to constantly trading up, this camera is one that I get the feeling will last and last.

Yes, this is a major reason for considering the S1(R). My K-1 is roughly the same size/weight, and able to withstand any conditions I expose it to, and still feels like it can go on for a decade or more. Actually my 1st impression of the S1R is that it feels a bit more premium.

All up it's a decent camera, but it took a bit of getting used to after using a Sony, which in my opinion is actually easier to use for adapted lenses once set up for it. I never owned an auto focus lens for either mount, and treat the camera body as almost purely a digital back, and just need it to get in the way as little as possible.

For bad and/or cold weather, I'll get 2-3 AF-lenses, and the S1 feels much better for this, especially when wering gloves. Obviously the sonys are very capable cameras too, and it boils down to personal preference.

I'm actually hoping another Panasonic user who has spent a considerable time with theirs can let me know if there's any way to work around some of the annoyances I've listed above.

Yes, that would be very interesting indeed!

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MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 45,088
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
1

Sjak wrote:

Alun Thomas wrote:

Thanks for your very elaborate answer, very helpful!

I have not been able to tear myself away from my comprehensive M4/3 kit enough to use my S1 as a serious go-to camera body. It is used for ‘special occasions’ (Where only a FF sensor will do …)

The 'Constant Preview' function allows you to see in the viewfinder a representation of how your chosen exposure settings will work out, which I generally use in manual focus mode. However the implementation of the feature is flawed. When you are trying to do long exposures in lowlight, the update of the view takes the same amount of time as the exposure setting, making it more or less unusable for focussing and framing the shot. You need to disable the setting, set the focus etc, then later re-enable it to check the exposure chosen. I set up a custom button to quickly do this and still haven't found a better work around. As is it severely impedes the workflow.

Good to know, I don't do much long exposures, but I do lots of low-light.

I did not know it was an issue …

IBIS - the S1 has it, but persists in asking for the focal length of the manual lens every single time you power on the camera. This quickly gets boring, to the point I just disabled IBIS and assigned a custom button to turn it on if I need it.

My Pentaxes do this too, but the camera retains the last set value.

Compared to Olympus which will happily keep using the IBIS setting that the camera had out of the box and needs a complex little finger dance to change it the nag at switch on it is a mildly annoying feature. Offset by an soft press accepts last setting (remembered) with no delay whatsoever and to change it a left arrow and a rear wheel spin sets a new IBIS setting in a short second. Olympus made big deal about their IBIS and I can imagine countless users forgetting to optimise it when they change lenses.

I've just found a video, where the youtuber had set 3 values for the focal length to pick from (when he is on a 3-lens-shoot); I can't comment if his approach is practical, or even how it works, but here's the link: https://youtu.be/GbW2tw6vsMc?t=891

USB connection - likewise, every single time you plug in the cable to transfer files, it asks you what you want to do. I've only ever chosen one option and can't see why I can't just preset that option and have it start automatically.

The USB-connection was the 1st thing to break on a few past cameras. Since then I simply remove the SD-card and put it in the PC.

I have always uploaded from card as well.

The design inside the camera flange is more restrictive than other makes, you cannot use a Jupiter 12 biogon copy on this camera, and I presume not the original biogon either.

No biggie, I have a digital M for rangefinder-lenses, but others might be interested.

This is more of an issue fro me. Sony chamfered the mount baffles so that wider lenses like the Jupiter 12 could be mounted but Leica designed a mount that had ‘square’ baffles that cannot mount some of their own wider protrusion early M mount lenses.

Great viewfinder

Yes, I've even found a reviewer who didn't even need the magnified view.

The histogram changes colour even in manual exposure mode, to tell you that the cameras inbuilt exposure calculator thinks this setting gives correct exposure - a good backup.

This is really nice indeed!

Buttons for Africa - you can set up custom buttons to do most things, and there are also loads of controls, i.e. for drive mode, which took quite a bit of discovery to work out where everything was.

Yeah, a bit like the K-1. It's both a good thing and a curse. For street, candid, pub&club I'd typically use the M, as the brutal simplicity is a big bonus in those situations. The K-1 and S1(R) are for about everything else.

There is such a thing as too many customisable buttons and I think that Panasonic might have found that limit It is not that they don’t provide enough assignable functions but there gets a point where you end up assigning functions that you will never use or even remember where they were assigned if ever by chance you needed to use it.

Fully electronic shutter - After the shutter died on the Sony, I use this most of the time, even though the S1 has a heavy duty shutter design rated for double the activation count of most consumer cameras.

Time lapse as a standard feature - not that I've used it, but was noticeably missing from my previous camera.

The pixel shift high resolution mode - haven't used this either, but still a cool feature.

I think this is an area where the panny has actually less features than the K-1; at least I haven't found any references to composition adjustment, astrotracer (never used it myself) and automatic horizon correction, all achieved using the IBIS-movements. Probably I'll need to adapt to the lack of horizon correction. The composition adjustment is nice as well but I could do without; it allows small shifts of the sensor for getting optimal framing, when tripod/ballhead adjustments lack precision.

Ricoh are the masters of innovative thinking by engineers who actually take photographs. It is just a little pity that they did not stay with the GXR ‘experiment’ and decided to make the very best dslr on the planet when Canon and Nikon were desperately looking for a way out.

The build quality. Although it's a heavy camera, if you just want to buy a high quality camera and keep it, as opposed to constantly trading up, this camera is one that I get the feeling will last and last.

Yes, this is a major reason for considering the S1(R). My K-1 is roughly the same size/weight, and able to withstand any conditions I expose it to, and still feels like it can go on for a decade or more. Actually my 1st impression of the S1R is that it feels a bit more premium.

I point out that you can focal reduce a Sigma DC (aps-c) EF mount lens full image circle on to a M4/3 mount camera with 20mp 4/3 sensor. Yet on an auto crop sensor on a S1 or S5 only a (roughly) 10mp capture results with the same lens. I am not worried about this or even tried to compare the results - but I think that it is an interesting observation when we can easily compare the GX9 camera body size to the S1.

All up it's a decent camera, but it took a bit of getting used to after using a Sony, which in my opinion is actually easier to use for adapted lenses once set up for it. I never owned an auto focus lens for either mount, and treat the camera body as almost purely a digital back, and just need it to get in the way as little as possible.

For bad and/or cold weather, I'll get 2-3 AF-lenses, and the S1 feels much better for this, especially when wering gloves. Obviously the sonys are very capable cameras too, and it boils down to personal preference.

I bought the first iteration of he A7R and I have not been back …. I don’t reward companies that flog pre-beta product to unsuspecting consumers by buying several models while they slowly sort out the consumer interface. At least the S1 was a pretty good first try and I am very comfortable with it even with no L-mount lenses and only use adapted EF and legacy MF lenses with it.

I'm actually hoping another Panasonic user who has spent a considerable time with theirs can let me know if there's any way to work around some of the annoyances I've listed above.

Yes, that would be very interesting indeed!

Anyone that can handle the generally bad handling of the early A7 series bodies should be capable of coming to terms with a few niggles on the sweet handling S1 camera body.

It does work well with MF lenses.

Adapting EF lenses is a bit ‘meh’ compared to other mount systems. Metabones needs to get into the act.

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Tom Caldwell

Sjak
OP Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Tom Caldwell wrote:

There is such a thing as too many customisable buttons and I think that Panasonic might have found that limit It is not that they don’t provide enough assignable functions but there gets a point where you end up assigning functions that you will never use or even remember where they were assigned if ever by chance you needed to use it.

The K-1 has a dial to select the custom-function of another dial

Ricoh are the masters of innovative thinking by engineers who actually take photographs. It is just a little pity that they did not stay with the GXR ‘experiment’ and decided to make the very best dslr on the planet when Canon and Nikon were desperately looking for a way out.

Agree that Ricoh's cameras have a well thought-out UI. Although I didn't bind with the GXR myself, it was a very interesting little camera. And it's certainly with mixed feelings that I will sell the K-1; it has some really interesting functions, some of which I will miss at times.

In my opinion Ricoh's problem is not necessarily the choice of product (DSLR or compact) but the lack of marketing and advertising.

Adapting EF lenses is a bit ‘meh’ compared to other mount systems. Metabones needs to get into the act.

I've read mixed results, depending on the lens and adapter used. I looked into the option of skipping e.g. a native tele to save some money, and get an EF instead. But it's a bit of a gamble whether a specific lens will work, and how well. Do you have by any chance some links to good resources for checking lens-compatibility with the available adapters?

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Alun Thomas Forum Member • Posts: 99
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
3

Also, one final observation - the flange to sensor distance is 20mm for Leica/Panasonic/Sigma and Canon RF, 18mm for Sony, and 16mm for Nikon Z. If you think you might enjoy adapting old rangefinder lenses from busted cameras, the Nikon is maybe the one to go for.  I do have some I adapted to my sony (Walz Kominar 7 element) that I can't use on my Panasonic. And some I tried to use on my Sony I didn't quite have room (Canon QL 40/1.7 and a couple of Konica cameras). Fortunately there is a wealth of interchangeable lenses available which will adapt to any of the systems mentioned.

Also, there is no Techart adapter for Leica M to SL mount, but other systems do have it, if you might like to tinker like that. I'm a confirmed manual focus only person myself (even if it means missing the shot), so it isn't really an issue.

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 45,088
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
1

As a matter of fact I have (a list of some lenses and their compatibility with various adapters):

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64144183

The Fotodiox Fusion does better than the Sigma MC-21 but not nearly as well as the Metabones EF-M4/3 adapter or even Viltrox EF-M4/3.

Basically easy-adapt lenses work well enough in S-AF even if they are not super-swift I am happy enough with them.  C-AF is locked out entirely although the Commlite is said to support at least some lenses for C-AF but in general the Commlite does not seem to be getting good reports - I have not tested it myself.

My favourites would be the Canon EF 100/2.8 macro, the 40/2.8 Pancake and the 50/1.8 STM.  The EF-S  55-250/4.0-5.6 is sweet and has to be auto crop-sensor as are a number of Sigma DC (aps-c) lenses I have in EF mount.  I suspect that most if not all Sigma lenses in EF mount will do S-AF fairly well.  If money is no object then the Canon EF 35/1.4L II like the one I snagged as a lucky buy would live up to its rave reviews.

I did have a great stock of EF lenses from way back which I have relentlessly hung on to. Enough for me to take a step back in evolution and acquire a 5Ds in Canons dslr fire sale.

A camera body that I could not make myself afford when first sold and secure in the knowledge that I had one of the better dslr bodies to match my lenses and that Canon was not going to supersede it any time soon.

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Tom Caldwell

Off The Mark Veteran Member • Posts: 6,311
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
1

I can't really add much to what Alun and Tom have already said about the S1 when it comes to shooting stills with an S1 and adapted / vintage lenses. I will say though that I find it better to use than the S5 due to the better EVF and LCD panel, plus it has better IBIS. Another nice feature (if you wear glasses) is that you can "shrink" the view in the EFV so that you are able to see the whole frame, even if your glasses keep your eye a bit further away from the viewfinder.

In terms of shooting video with adapted lenses, the S1 is a truly excellent camera. The major "drawback" is that you can't shoot in full frame mode at 60fps in 4K. If you want to shoot in 4K 60fps, it crops in to APS-C sensor coverage. (If you want to shoot in 4K 60fps with a full frame sensor coverage, you would need to either shoot with a Canon R6, or the Sony a7S III, OR you could get the S1 and it shoots 4K 60p with about a 1.1 crop of the full frame sensor, but with pixel binning and no 10-bit options).

Some of the excellent video features of the S1 (once you buy the film makers upgrade which costs US $200) include:

Internal 6K video recording at 24 / 30fps 10-bit 4:2:0 (15-minute limit)

10-bit 4:2:2 V-LOG at 24 / 25 / 30fps (and 50 / 60fps with above-mentioned aps-c crop). But you also get 10-bit color even if you don't shoot in V-LOG profile.

No time limit for 4K 10-bit vide at 24 / 25 / 30fps (the S5 has a 30-minute limit, not sure about the S1R)

Waveforms (Thank You, Panasonic!!!)

The ability to shoot in 5.9K RAW video, either in ProRes RAW (with an Atomos Ninja V) or in BlackMagic RAW (BRAW) with a Black Magic Video Assist.

Excellent mechanical stabilization with the ability to use electronic enhanced stabilization

full size hdmi port

A ton of customizable buttons

The on-screen touch function "strip" (I don't know the actual name of it... it is a vertical "strip" on the right side of the LCD panel that you can slide out and then make some adjustments that way).

Pretty darn good audio preamps. (I don't know how good the camera's in-built mics are, but using a shotgun or livelier mics plugged in to the 3.5mm jack is great as long as the mic isn't TOO hot because you can only go down to -12db, not -18, IIRC)

The ability to get more telephoto "reach" by shooting in pixel-to-pixel sensor readout.

As for the cons, the biggest one I already pointed out (4K 60fps is only available in aps-c crop). The other drawbacks are the lack of an AA filter so you could get some moire (i find it is pretty well controlled), and the lack of an all-i codec (the S1h and the GH5 series have available all-i codecs, while the S1 / S5 / S1R have only Long GOP codecs).

Also it is kind of big and heavy. some people find that a benefit. I find it more of a con. The S5 is much easier to use on a gimbal than the S1, due to the lighter weigh, smaller size, and flip-out screen of the S5.

If you are serious about video, the S1 is definitely a good camera. The GH6 might be a better option for truly serious video production needs, IF you don't need the better dynamic range / low light / high iso performance of a full frame sensor.

Haven't used the Sony a7 IV, nor the Canon R6. I am sure they are both great. The potential overheating issues of the Canon R6 mean that I am not seriously considering it as a viable 4K video camera for my needs. The a7 IV lacks some video features like internal 6K and waveforms, and the 4K 60fps is only available in an aps-c crop mode.

On the other hand, if adapting Canon EF-lenses, they work better on the Sony a7 IV with the Sigma MC-11 (or metabones adapter) than they do on the S1 / S5 line with the Sigma MC-21.

Anyway, hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

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Sjak
OP Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Thanks Tom, very useful information! Will ding into it!

1 final question re the adapters: Do you know if the adapters also have WR-gaskets?

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Sjak
OP Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Off The Mark wrote:

I will say though that I find it better to use than the S5 due to the better EVF and LCD panel, plus it has better IBIS. Another nice feature (if you wear glasses) is that you can "shrink" the view in the EFV so that you are able to see the whole frame, even if your glasses keep your eye a bit further away from the viewfinder.

The viewfinder is indeed 1 of the big plusses of the S1 & SL line. In addition, good to know about the "shrink"-option; I normally dont wear glasses (except when driving) but this can also be useful when earing sunglasses.

If you are serious about video, the S1 is definitely a good camera. The GH6 might be a better option for truly serious video production needs, IF you don't need the better dynamic range / low light / high iso performance of a full frame sensor.

Thanks for all the details about the advantages of the S1 re video. I don't have much experience with video (yet) but all your input is very helpful to make a better decision between the S1 and the S1R.

Haven't used the Sony a7 IV, nor the Canon R6. I am sure they are both great. The potential overheating issues of the Canon R6 mean that I am not seriously considering it as a viable 4K video camera for my needs. The a7 IV lacks some video features like internal 6K and waveforms, and the 4K 60fps is only available in an aps-c crop mode.

I was at the store again today (just to handle a small return) and tried a Sony A73 and A7R3. I did not feel the body as comfortable, and my thumb was more or less pushing 2 buttons, and the space between the grip and the lens can be tight, depending on the lens of course. When wearing gloves, these issues will be magnified. In addition, the EVF of the Sony is not nearly as good as on the S1-series. So I'm much more confident that the S1 is the way to go.

I've downloaded and compared Raw-files from both systems, and differences, if any, are really insignificant to me.

On the other hand, if adapting Canon EF-lenses, they work better on the Sony a7 IV with the Sigma MC-11 (or metabones adapter) than they do on the S1 / S5 line with the Sigma MC-11.

I never owned a Canon (except a few cheap compacts) so EF-compatibility is nice to have, but no disaster if not great.

Anyway, hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

It helps a lot, thanks so much!

I will rent an S1soon, so I can see whether I will find the photo-files limiting in actual when compared to the S1R (for some uses, the hi-res is an advantage, think macro and long tele) but in maybe 80% of my photography it's not really relevant

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Off The Mark Veteran Member • Posts: 6,311
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
1

Sjak wrote:

I will rent an S1soon, so I can see whether I will find the photo-files limiting in actual when compared to the S1R (for some uses, the hi-res is an advantage, think macro and long tele) but in maybe 80% of my photography it's not really relevant

Just to sort of summarize my long-winded post...

Although I don't own an S1R, I think in most situations it would be the better buy, especially used since they can often be found at rather budget prices considering what they deliver.

And unless you are going to get SERIOUS about shooting video and, more importantly, about COLOR GRADING your video, then the S1R is pretty much equal to the S1.

It is only if you decide that you want to get seriously in to shooting video and want to spend a significant amount of time color grading / chroma keying (green screen), have a computer that can handle serious editing and grading of video, and are interested in shooting RAW video (and are willing to pay for the external recorders and all the extra hard drive space that requires), then the S1 would be the better camera (IMHO).

So in short: for most people, the video capabilities of S1R will be good enough.

Only if you want to really get serious about video would the S1 be the better choice.

Anyway, hope this helps.

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Sjak
OP Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Thanks again, some very useful considerations! I'm currently trying to sell 2 other cameras and some lenses, so I still have some time to think about this. The reason for renting the S1 is that only the S1 and S1H are available for rental at my local store.

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Sjak
OP Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Tom, I have one more question about the EF-L-adapters. Do you know how accurate the focal flange distance is on these?

The reason for asking is that I will probably also get a wide shift and standard T/S-lens, either from Laowa or from Canon. But even in case of a Laowa, the EF-mount seems the better investment, as it could be adapted to potential future cameras, whereas in L-mount it could prove a tough resell.

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Sittatunga Veteran Member • Posts: 4,703
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?
1

Sjak wrote:

Tom, I have one more question about the EF-L-adapters. Do you know how accurate the focal flange distance is on these?

I don't think it really matters that much.  If anything adapters tend to be slightly short so that wideangle lenses can be guaranteed to reach infinity.  The Canon TS-E lenses can focus beyond infinity and you can't focus using the focus scale if you're using any tilt at all, for obvious reasons.

The reason for asking is that I will probably also get a wide shift and standard T/S-lens, either from Laowa or from Canon. But even in case of a Laowa, the EF-mount seems the better investment, as it could be adapted to potential future cameras, whereas in L-mount it could prove a tough resell.

I don't think Laowa do any tilt lenses yet. The 15mm and 20mm shift lenses come in a variety of mounts, but I would definitely buy one in an SLR mount rather than a mirrorless version.  Nikon F might be even more attractive, being almost universally adaptable.  Partly it's the resale argument, but the RF-EF filter adapter is attractive too. Now that there are a couple of third-party RF-EF filter adapters we can hope it's only a matter of time before people start putting filter slots into other DSLR to mirrorless mount adapters.

Sjak
OP Sjak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,914
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Sittatunga wrote:

I don't think it really matters that much. If anything adapters tend to be slightly short so that wideangle lenses can be guaranteed to reach infinity.

In particular with lenses with FLE-designs, the accuracy of the focal flange distance matters a lot, especially on a wide angle.

I don't think Laowa do any tilt lenses yet.

Me neither; would be awesome if Laowa would go into that direction too!

Partly it's the resale argument, but the RF-EF filter adapter is attractive too. Now that there are a couple of third-party RF-EF filter adapters we can hope it's only a matter of time before people start putting filter slots into other DSLR to mirrorless mount adapters.

Are you suggesting I may have a closer look into a few RF-mount cameras as an alternative to the S1R? If so, which one?

Genuinely interested, as currently I am considering my options, and if the RF-system has cameras I may have missed or under-estimated, that could meet my desires, that would be great to know!

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Sittatunga Veteran Member • Posts: 4,703
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Sjak wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

I don't think it really matters that much. If anything adapters tend to be slightly short so that wideangle lenses can be guaranteed to reach infinity.

In particular with lenses with FLE-designs, the accuracy of the focal flange distance matters a lot, especially on a wide angle.

I don't know what you mean by that acronym, and Google wasn't any help.

I don't think Laowa do any tilt lenses yet.

Me neither; would be awesome if Laowa would go into that direction too!

Partly it's the resale argument, but the RF-EF filter adapter is attractive too. Now that there are a couple of third-party RF-EF filter adapters we can hope it's only a matter of time before people start putting filter slots into other DSLR to mirrorless mount adapters.

Are you suggesting I may have a closer look into a few RF-mount cameras as an alternative to the S1R? If so, which one?

Genuinely interested, as currently I am considering my options, and if the RF-system has cameras I may have missed or under-estimated, that could meet my desires, that would be great to know!

I bought the R a couple of years ago as it's got the 5D IV 30Mpx sensor and better manual focus for £1000 less money.  A lot more fun with a TS-E lens, the articulated screen's good on a tripod, and I'm not bothered about the 5D IV's higher frame rate.  Not so good with Leica mount wideangles due to colour changes at the ends of the sensor.  The R5 has IBIS, a 45Mpx sensor with a very sophisticated AA filter, automatic focus stacking and fabulous AF, tracking and frame rates.  The R6 has the 20Mpx sensor from the 1DX III and is nearly as sophisticated as the R5 but a lot less expensive, and the R3 is well beyond my pay scale.  Probably not relevant to you, but EF lenses behave as well or better adapted to RF mount than they do on DSLRs.

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 45,088
Re: Anyone using manual focus lenses with the Panasonic S1/S1R?

Sjak wrote:

Thanks Tom, very useful information! Will ding into it!

1 final question re the adapters: Do you know if the adapters also have WR-gaskets?

I don’t ever remember seeing any gaskets. I double checked a Metabones one as likely the most expensive and not a gasket in sight.

You could say that WR is not a great worry with me.  When it rains here it usually rains like stink as it has now for a couple of ‘season’ (and we have the floods to show for it).  Or is hardly rains at all.

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Tom Caldwell

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 45,088
Adapt Mamiya 645 lenses to L?

Sjak wrote:

Tom, I have one more question about the EF-L-adapters. Do you know how accurate the focal flange distance is on these?

As good as anywhere.  But I am not a precision man at heart.  I can only say that I have had zero issues.

The reason for asking is that I will probably also get a wide shift and standard T/S-lens, either from Laowa or from Canon. But even in case of a Laowa, the EF-mount seems the better investment, as it could be adapted to potential future cameras, whereas in L-mount it could prove a tough resell.

I have been there already - I bought a Kipon Shift adapter M645 to EF and have adapted it further to L with no apparent issues.  The Kipon probably mimics the Mamiya dedicated shift lens mechanism.

This gives any Mamiya 645 lens a shift facility.  Lack of super wides but there is a Mamiya 35/3.5 and i have tried several others.  No vignette.  These are pretty good lenses in their own right.  I bought mine from Japan.  By paying a bit more you can get good value as new M645 lenses for similar prices as well worn ex-professional ones were listed in the US.

I can add an EF-M4/3 or alternatively focal reduction adapter and fix the entire contraption on a M4/3 body - to either as tilt or focal reduce - all seem to work.

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Tom Caldwell

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