In-camera focus bracketing: usable past 1x magnification?

Hey all,

As someone interested in trying out macro photography around the 2x-5x level, from what I understand, focus bracketing seems pretty vital to ensuring a sharp, detailed photo.

As focus bracketing manually using a rail seems rather time consuming, I was wondering, would using an in-camera method of automatic bracketing be precise enough at such a high level of magnification? Say the kind found in newer fujifilm and olympus mirrorless bodies?

My thinking is that powerful focus stacking software like helicon or zerene, or even a focus stacking feature in a photo editing program like affinity photo, would be able to compensate for any major issues with sharpness and accuracy. For those with experience, does this hold true?

Also, this might be a stupid question, but has anyone had experience reverse mounting an enlarging lens onto the olympus 60mm macro? I found a good deal on a Schnieder componon 28mm f4 and am wondering if it possible to mount it while using the 60mm lens normally, as this would allow me to use the in-camera bracketing and stacking features.

Cheers!

GB.

I can't speak for the reversed enlarging lens, but there are other ways to increase magnification whilst retaining autofocus and thus focus bracketing, such as extension tubes, teleconverters and dioptres (such as those made by Raynox). oneofone25 is a member over on the M43 forums who has a lot of success with these in conjunction with the Olympus 60mm macro that you mention. Here's one of their threads, but it's worth looking through other posts for more information.

Essentially, you can increase magnification by 1.4x or 2x depending on which Olympus teleconverter you use, but as the teleconverters are not built to work with the macro lens you need to connect them via an extension tube, with Kenko and Pixco being brands that people have success with. The diopter then goes in front of the lens, and there are a variety of options; the Raynox DCR-250 is the most versatile, which I've used in the field to create focus stacks of insects handheld with the Oly 60mm, whereas the Raynox MSN-202 and MSN-505 are much harder to use, necessitate a tripod and stacks with a very large amount of images, but provide much more magnification (with the 505 providing the most).

16GreenBeans wrote:

Hey all,

As someone interested in trying out macro photography around the 2x-5x level, from what I understand, focus bracketing seems pretty vital to ensuring a sharp, detailed photo.

As focus bracketing manually using a rail seems rather time consuming, I was wondering, would using an in-camera method of automatic bracketing be precise enough at such a high level of magnification? Say the kind found in newer fujifilm and olympus mirrorless bodies?

My thinking is that powerful focus stacking software like helicon or zerene, or even a focus stacking feature in a photo editing program like affinity photo, would be able to compensate for any major issues with sharpness and accuracy. For those with experience, does this hold true?

Also, this might be a stupid question, but has anyone had experience reverse mounting an enlarging lens onto the olympus 60mm macro? I found a good deal on a Schnieder componon 28mm f4 and am wondering if it possible to mount it while using the 60mm lens normally, as this would allow me to use the in-camera bracketing and stacking features.

Cheers!

GB.

It is possible to do such stacking by use of an automatic rail, which can be many times as expensive as a manual rail. You might also want to consider the fact that at such a high magnification, camera shake can be a real problem, especially with a high-resolution camera. So, it is important to use a sturdy setup. Macro Magnification can be problematic also because the range of focus is likely to be in the Millimeters; but it is possible to use autofocus with a single reverse-lens system by Novoflex. It's the reverse lens Autofocus Adapter. Stepping down the aperture is a technique that can help (but is essential) and might require a bright light source. One person who has used an Olympus 60mm macro for extreme macro can be found at Instagram (1of1 snowflakes) and Flickr (Ethan Beckler).  I don't instantly remember how he did it, but the equipment was listed somewhere in one of his posts.

I'll add, for focus bracketing: I've used the 60mm Olympus on E-M1.ii with (or without) extension tubes and Raynox 150 using (1) Olympus Capture in MF with focus adjustment through Capture (see this thread ); (2) using a rail with the shutter on a timer (wait 5 seconds between shots, adjust rail right after shutter with 4 seconds to let tripod shake stop); (3) trip shutter with Olympus Capture after adjusting rail position and letting tripod settle.

All of the above would be with the camera in MF. Capture works with certain models of Olympus cameras, I'm not clear what camera you're using. Option 2 should work for any camera with a timer.

I bought a thread adapter for the Raynox so I could screw it directly to the end of the 60mm, which makes the combo a little easier to handle. If you get extension tubes, make sure they can autofocus to make hand-held work easier.

Don

AeroPhotographer wrote:

Regarding reverse mounting a lens on another lens. The lens on the camera needn't be macro. Any lens will work. The lens on the camera can be focused on infinity and so can the reverse lens. Note I say "can be" as that's not essential.

If both lenses are focused on infinity, then the reverse lens can be any ordinary photography lens. It's not essential that it be an enlarging lens which is designed for close conjugates.

Alan

Hey Alan,

That's a solid bit of advice. My only major concern would be the presence of field curvature when not using a macro.

Good to know I don't have to use an enlarging lens.

Best,

GB.

Sheeno wrote:

I can't speak for the reversed enlarging lens, but there are other ways to increase magnification whilst retaining autofocus and thus focus bracketing, such as extension tubes, teleconverters and dioptres (such as those made by Raynox). oneofone25 is a member over on the M43 forums who has a lot of success with these in conjunction with the Olympus 60mm macro that you mention. Here's one of their threads, but it's worth looking through other posts for more information.

Essentially, you can increase magnification by 1.4x or 2x depending on which Olympus teleconverter you use, but as the teleconverters are not built to work with the macro lens you need to connect them via an extension tube, with Kenko and Pixco being brands that people have success with. The diopter then goes in front of the lens, and there are a variety of options; the Raynox DCR-250 is the most versatile, which I've used in the field to create focus stacks of insects handheld with the Oly 60mm, whereas the Raynox MSN-202 and MSN-505 are much harder to use, necessitate a tripod and stacks with a very large amount of images, but provide much more magnification (with the 505 providing the most).

Hi Sheeno,

Holy smokes, those are some incredible photos by oneofone25.

I think this might have solved things for me. Teleconverters, tubes, and diopters definitely seem like the way to go.

Thanks!

GB.

gardenersassistant wrote:

16GreenBeans wrote:

Hey all,

As someone interested in trying out macro photography around the 2x-5x level, from what I understand, focus bracketing seems pretty vital to ensuring a sharp, detailed photo.

As focus bracketing manually using a rail seems rather time consuming, I was wondering, would using an in-camera method of automatic bracketing be precise enough at such a high level of magnification? Say the kind found in newer fujifilm and olympus mirrorless bodies?

Yes. See the work of OneOfOne25, who uses in-camera bracketing with an Olympus camera and an Olympus 60mm macro lens with and without a teleconverter and/or Raynox close-up lenses, sometimes at very high magnifications, producing superb, super-detailed images.

That said, if you are intending to photograph animals, especially live animals, particularly live animals out in the field, most particularly ones that are rather small and ones that may be wandering around/on foliage that is moving in the breeze/engaging in active behaviours/not in one place or pose for very long, then using focus stacking will considerably restrict the range of scenes you can tackle.

FWIW (and obviously your mileage may vary), I prefer the flexibility that single-capture imaging gives me for active subjects out in the field at magnifications of up to 8X. I can't get the details or depth of field that focus stacking would enable, but there are compensations, such as being able to photograph subjects as they move around and/or engage in behaviours such as grooming, blowing bubbles, wrapping prey or giving birth. In terms of sharpness and accuracy I make do with images like the ones below. But obviously, this may not be the sort of thing you are interested in, or if it is the sort of thing you are interested the image quality may not be up to your standards. We each have to find our own way.

A globular springtail, head and body probably around 2mm long

One of a 26-image series captured as the snail was moving around, varying from shots like this through "full body" shots out to "environmental" shots.

This ant was rushing around. It had, possibly, stopped momentarily (I don't recall).

Aphid giving birth.

From an action sequence. A wasp trying to tear flesh from a pheasant carcass. (They had to work really hard at it.)

This mite's body was probably around 1mm long. It was moving around.

This woodlouse was in motion.

This fly wasn't moving. Perhaps it stayed still long enough to be stacked. I don't recall. But this sort of thing is good enough for my purposes.

I have nothing against focus stacking btw. I use it quite a lot for close-ups of flowers etc (hand-held, using in-camera focus-racked video and stacking in Helicon). Just not for invertebrates.

Hey Garden,

I think for the most part I'll be sticking to static, non-living things when it comes to macro. That said, fantastic shots you have there.

Thanks for the advice.

Cheers,

GB.

16GreenBeans wrote:

Hey all,

As someone interested in trying out macro photography around the 2x-5x level, from what I understand, focus bracketing seems pretty vital to ensuring a sharp, detailed photo.

As focus bracketing manually using a rail seems rather time consuming, I was wondering, would using an in-camera method of automatic bracketing be precise enough at such a high level of magnification? Say the kind found in newer fujifilm and olympus mirrorless bodies?

My thinking is that powerful focus stacking software like helicon or zerene, or even a focus stacking feature in a photo editing program like affinity photo, would be able to compensate for any major issues with sharpness and accuracy. For those with experience, does this hold true?

Also, this might be a stupid question, but has anyone had experience reverse mounting an enlarging lens onto the olympus 60mm macro? I found a good deal on a Schnieder componon 28mm f4 and am wondering if it possible to mount it while using the 60mm lens normally, as this would allow me to use the in-camera bracketing and stacking features.

Cheers!

GB.

You need to check out my posts in the Olympus forums...

I use the Raynox macro filters on the Olympus 60mm macro lens, as well as coming up with a way to use the 2x teleconverter, the MC-20, with the macro lens.  Using the MC-20 teleconverter with a kenko 16mm extension tube, connecting to the Olympus 60mm macro lens gives me about 2.3x magnification when lens is set to 1:1, and focus bracketing works splendidly at f4.5 and anywhere from 1/10 to 3/10 for focus bracketing mode.

here are some shots I have taken over the last 6 months using this setup, in combination with one of three different Raynox macro filters - the Raynox 250, the 202 or the 505.  Using the 505 with this setup, i get 9x magnification and regularly stack images of sand grains that are 0.2mm to 0.3mm wide.

the right eye of a stink bug

under 1mm field of view, focus stack of more than 175 images if memory serves me right, using the 202

two grains of sand, the top one being a garnet at 0.2mm in width - used the 505, about 200 images stacked

dew drops hanging in a spider web, using the Raynox 250 (all of these I am using the 2x teleconverter for as well), focus stack of 75 images

scales on a mosquito shoulder, used the 505 for 9x magnification and stacking high resolution images by hooking up the camera to my computer and manually moving the focus

16GreenBeans wrote:

Sheeno wrote:

I can't speak for the reversed enlarging lens, but there are other ways to increase magnification whilst retaining autofocus and thus focus bracketing, such as extension tubes, teleconverters and dioptres (such as those made by Raynox). oneofone25 is a member over on the M43 forums who has a lot of success with these in conjunction with the Olympus 60mm macro that you mention. Here's one of their threads, but it's worth looking through other posts for more information.

Essentially, you can increase magnification by 1.4x or 2x depending on which Olympus teleconverter you use, but as the teleconverters are not built to work with the macro lens you need to connect them via an extension tube, with Kenko and Pixco being brands that people have success with. The diopter then goes in front of the lens, and there are a variety of options; the Raynox DCR-250 is the most versatile, which I've used in the field to create focus stacks of insects handheld with the Oly 60mm, whereas the Raynox MSN-202 and MSN-505 are much harder to use, necessitate a tripod and stacks with a very large amount of images, but provide much more magnification (with the 505 providing the most).

Hi Sheeno,

Holy smokes, those are some incredible photos by oneofone25.

I think this might have solved things for me. Teleconverters, tubes, and diopters definitely seem like the way to go.

Thanks!

GB.

they work well, glad to see many people in this thread referenced my stuff; feel free to send a message and ask me anything

16GreenBeans wrote:

gardenersassistant wrote:

16GreenBeans wrote:

Hey all,

As someone interested in trying out macro photography around the 2x-5x level, from what I understand, focus bracketing seems pretty vital to ensuring a sharp, detailed photo.

As focus bracketing manually using a rail seems rather time consuming, I was wondering, would using an in-camera method of automatic bracketing be precise enough at such a high level of magnification? Say the kind found in newer fujifilm and olympus mirrorless bodies?

Yes. See the work of OneOfOne25, who uses in-camera bracketing with an Olympus camera and an Olympus 60mm macro lens with and without a teleconverter and/or Raynox close-up lenses, sometimes at very high magnifications, producing superb, super-detailed images.

That said, if you are intending to photograph animals, especially live animals, particularly live animals out in the field, most particularly ones that are rather small and ones that may be wandering around/on foliage that is moving in the breeze/engaging in active behaviours/not in one place or pose for very long, then using focus stacking will considerably restrict the range of scenes you can tackle.

FWIW (and obviously your mileage may vary), I prefer the flexibility that single-capture imaging gives me for active subjects out in the field at magnifications of up to 8X. I can't get the details or depth of field that focus stacking would enable, but there are compensations, such as being able to photograph subjects as they move around and/or engage in behaviours such as grooming, blowing bubbles, wrapping prey or giving birth. In terms of sharpness and accuracy I make do with images like the ones below. But obviously, this may not be the sort of thing you are interested in, or if it is the sort of thing you are interested the image quality may not be up to your standards. We each have to find our own way.

A globular springtail, head and body probably around 2mm long

One of a 26-image series captured as the snail was moving around, varying from shots like this through "full body" shots out to "environmental" shots.

This ant was rushing around. It had, possibly, stopped momentarily (I don't recall).

Aphid giving birth.

From an action sequence. A wasp trying to tear flesh from a pheasant carcass. (They had to work really hard at it.)

This mite's body was probably around 1mm long. It was moving around.

This woodlouse was in motion.

This fly wasn't moving. Perhaps it stayed still long enough to be stacked. I don't recall. But this sort of thing is good enough for my purposes.

I have nothing against focus stacking btw. I use it quite a lot for close-ups of flowers etc (hand-held, using in-camera focus-racked video and stacking in Helicon). Just not for invertebrates.

Hey Garden,

I think for the most part I'll be sticking to static, non-living things when it comes to macro. That said, fantastic shots you have there.

Thanks for the advice.

Cheers,

GB.

always blown away by Gardenerassistant's shots....and probably have been most inspired and also most taught by their work