X-E4 vs X-Pro3? If money is not the main factor. Street photography.

Nielk Mike wrote:

Unless weather sealing and OVF is what you need - X-E4. In facht, I would try to find one or two X-E3s. They have that additional dial to control ISO. You can get two for the price of one X-E4. Then put a 23F2 or wider and the 50f2 on and enjoy.

That's a smart thought and a good pairing; I'm thinking 18/2 and 50/2.  And if an X-E3 had a flip-down screen to emulate a waist-level finder, it would be definitely in contention.  But alas, Fuji didn't give it one.

Raymond L wrote:

Q. Does Max mechanical shutter speed matter to you ?

Not really.  I'm generally comfortable with e-shutter, though I sometimes run into rolling shutter issues if people are moving very fast.

I usually shoot later in the day and if anything, I need more light.

Threaded wrote:

I would always choose the X-Pro3 *but* I really value the hybrid optical finder and things like weather resistance, ruggedness, faster shutter and two card slots. I dig the screen too.

As a former X-Pro2 owner and still a classic X100 owner, I am not confident of the OVF focus patch being exactly on what I want it to focus on.  Have you found that to be the case or is it no problem at all?

I agree about the X-Pro3's screen.  It's very nice and not at all what its detractors have said about it.

Jeff Biscuits wrote:

canonbcguy wrote:

I sometimes find the 23 not quite wide enough. That's why I was testing out the 18/2. It's mostly wide enough.

The X100V is great though. It's a great choice if there's going to be only 1 body.

Well, there is an even further leftfield option on the used market, namely an X70 plus and X-E2/3—which together would come in at a similar price to an X-E4 body. Obviously the X70 lacks a viewfinder but with its small size, tilting screen and leaf shutter it’s about as stealth as you get outside of a Ricoh GR, and it gives you the 18mm focal length in a form that’s not significantly larger than the equivalent X-mount lens. Then you also have an X-E option for a different focal length and a different way of working, and you can have both focal lengths ready to shoot at once.

I sometimes think about the venerable but oddball X70.  The trouble is that they are exceedingly hard to find.  At a local shop, I had a used one in my hand years ago now but didn't pull the trigger.  I still wonder why I let it go.

As I said above to someone else, I wish Fuji gave the X-E2/3 a tilt screen.  It was in their basket of gadgets long ago (e.g. X-T10) but didn't choose to give it the X-E series until now.

Waist-level shooting with a fixed screen is possible (I have an old X100), but it's much easier with a flip-down screen.

canonbcguy wrote:

Threaded wrote:

I would always choose the X-Pro3 *but* I really value the hybrid optical finder and things like weather resistance, ruggedness, faster shutter and two card slots. I dig the screen too.

As a former X-Pro2 owner and still a classic X100 owner, I am not confident of the OVF focus patch being exactly on what I want it to focus on. Have you found that to be the case or is it no problem at all?

I agree about the X-Pro3's screen. It's very nice and not at all what its detractors have said about it.

I don’t have a problem with it, but some of that is down to practice as I’ve always shot with the OVF mostly from the X-Pro1 onwards.  With the corrected AF frame set to on (which shows you a second box at the closest focussing distance) I can usually predict where the green box is going to land between the two.

Of course it’s a hybrid finder for a reason and I’m not averse to flipping into the EVF when it makes more sense for close focussing, I just prefer the experience of the optical finder for most things.

Since you have no use for what makes the X-Pro3 different, get the X-E4.

canonbcguy wrote:

... X-E2 and her older, smaller 18/2 and liked the experience...

Leica's CL is a bit heavier at 400g Vs 364g XE4 (the XE2 was 350g) and also has an 80g 18mm pancake.

...The intent is to use it for candid street photography. The smaller size of the X-E4 is attractive for stealth...

Leica's CL is the same size. I would cover the red dot with a round black sticker for stealth.

OVF in its hybrid finder but I don't think that's important for me. I shoot with an EVF normally. Having said that, the X-E4's smaller EVF is slightly worrisome (can I assume that it's the same EVF that's in the X-E2?...

No. It has a 17mm eye point, the XE2 is 23mm, big difference to me.

I am an XE2 fan (just sold X Pro 2 for having less than 17mm eye point EVF, like the X Pro 3). I think the XE4 is a budget Leica wannabe for people who enjoy minimal bodies but complicated menus. The X Pro 3 has a worse EVF compared to the XE2 (eye relief/point) and I am not sure about the LCD as I never chimp. Obviously the X Pro 3 will be very well made, although quite a few have to be sent back due to defects.

I think you should widen your search and consider the Leica CL, which is similarly priced to a new X Pro 3, used. Or $3k new with the Leica 18mm pancake lens and we know how much Leica lenses cost.

The Leica CL is a 24MP APSC camera with a similar shape to the other two, but a much nicer design and EVF. It's a beauty, whereas the Fujis are imitations of other cameras like Leicas.

One benefit of the CL is that you can use the Sigma APSC lenses already, including the tiny new 18-50mm f2.8 zoom. The Sigma 30mm f1.4 is currently only $264, well under half the price of anything similar from Fuji. There are also lots more L mount lenses.

Juicy looking big EVF with 20mm eye point/relief

I haven't tried a CL yet, but I am pretty sure it will be like a luxury XE camera. Very small. Lighter than an X Pro. No aperture rings, but I think the two dials on top with buttons in them should be something I could quickly get used to.

I wasn't going to mention it until I got one but decided to let the cat out of the bag in case I get into Leica lenses. Will just upgrade to an XE2S instead and a lens and more travel. Although I may have to rethink after looking at these photos.

Top display for settings instead of aperture ring.

You don't have to be mad to chose a Leica CL over the X-Pro3 but it helps.

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

You don't have to be mad to chose a Leica CL over the X-Pro3 but it helps.

Have you used a CL? Seen videos comparing to the Pro 3 but the more comparisons the better.

I think of it more of an XE upgrade than X Pro as it lacks the OVF and is XE sized. The main thing for me will be whether I could get used to the top 2 dials, which seem pretty great next to the mini display. No aperture rings is of course a disappointment. And the silver mount ring ruins the otherwise flawless design imo.

Blood N Guts Murphy wrote:

Joachim Gerstl wrote:

You don't have to be mad to chose a Leica CL over the X-Pro3 but it helps.

Have you used a CL? Seen videos comparing to the Pro 3 but the more comparisons the better.

I think of it more of an XE upgrade than X Pro as it lacks the OVF and is XE sized. The main thing for me will be whether I could get used to the top 2 dials, which seem pretty great next to the mini display. No aperture rings is of course a disappointment. And the silver mount ring ruins the otherwise flawless design imo.

I owned the X-Pro3 for a long time and now have a Leica CL, with the 18mm pancake lens. I think you're correct that it's a "luxury" X-E, as it's about the size of the X-E4, although it has some other interesting qualities that make it special. I got the kit used for a good price because the lens has a big scuff on the front, which doesn't effect image quality; the total cost was just a bit more than what you'd pay these days for a used X-Pro3, body only. It seems to me that the camera was insanely overpriced at launch, which is why it attracted almost no notice—I would never have bought one at the launch price, especially compared to what Fuji was offering—but it can be a decent deal now, especially used. If you're considering one, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about it as compared to Fuji (perhaps over PM, so as not to derail this thread).

The only reason I'd go for the CL over Fujifilm is if you really wanted to shoot either Leica or Voigtlander lenses. (And there's now a Voigtlander lens for X-mount, and perhaps more coming.) A major reason not to get a CL is that there is no equivalent in L-mount for the Fujicrons. Apart from the 18mm pancake, the smallest lenses you can use on the CL are MF only. (I'm using mine with the 18mm and the Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5 Color-Skopar.) Leica's other TL lenses are big. Sigma makes small APS-C primes with AF, which are apparently coming to Fuji, but, IMO, they are too big and plastic-feeling; I bought the 30mm f/1.4 and returned it because, compared to the Fujicron lenses, it felt like a toy. I really think that, for understated, small-size street shooting with classic haptics, it's very hard to beat Fuji's offerings.

As for X-E4 vs. X-Pro3: they are both great cameras, and the X-E4 is very affordable. Both are coat-pocketable with the 27mm f/2.8. The X-Pro3 is loved by many, including me, for reasons that are best understood after you hold it in your hand or use it on a strap, where the hinged screen really comes into its own as a waist-level finder. In my case, as soon as I held one, I knew that I preferred it to the other RF-style Fuji bodies (X-E, X100), because of the build quality, size, heft, screen design, OVF, and overall look. Note that the X-Pro doesn't have any lettering on the front—so, despite its larger size, it is in that way more discreet. If you can afford the X-Pro3 and are interested in it, I think it'd be worthwhile to find your way to a store and try it out.

JoshuaR wrote:

I owned the X-Pro3 for a long time and now have a Leica CL, with the 18mm pancake lens. I think you're correct that it's a "luxury" X-E, as it's about the size of the X-E4, although it has some other interesting qualities that make it special.... If you're considering one, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about it as compared to Fuji (perhaps over PM, so as not to derail this thread).

Thanks for that offer. I won't mention it again in this thread after this post. Trying to avoid getting one but just seen the prices on MPB in UK, which are much better than eBay.

The only reason I'd go for the CL over Fujifilm is if you really wanted to shoot either Leica or Voigtlander lenses. (And there's now a Voigtlander lens for X-mount, and perhaps more coming.) A major reason not to get a CL is that there is no equivalent in L-mount for the Fujicrons. Apart from the 18mm pancake, the smallest lenses you can use on the CL are MF only.

There is the AF 23mm f2 Summicron-TL. Smaller than Fuji's, but I almost bought a graphite Fuji 23 the other day for almost a 10th of the cost of the Summicron-TL 23. Their 35mm f1.4 TL is too big (and way too expensive) for me. I would stick with the Fuji 35 1.4, but get the cheapo Sigma 30mm for the CL (and 56).

Both autofocus 23mm f2. The Leica lacks an aperture ring but is smaller and lighter.

Trying to buy a £205 XE2S today instead, which would keep me on the right track (stay with Fuji). UK prices have gone up a lot for XE2 bodies in recent times (£265 ish, whereas it was more like £180 early 2020).

So even though the XE4 is half the price of the X Pro 3, probably one day it will also start to get a small cult following, which I assume has happened because of vloggers recently. The XE4's svelt looks will surely help as it has a Leica-like timeless design.

X-E4 attempts to do the waist-level LCD like the X-Pro3, but there is a glitch. If you flip out the X-E4 LCD to do waist-level shooting, and you get the camera within 8 inches of your waist, the LCD image will invert. If you move the camera more than 10 inches from your waist, it will be OK. These distances vary from camera to camera and some are much more sensitive than others. As yet, there is no fix for this.

I just purchased an X-E4 to accompany my X-T4. I do not have this problem. I have the "shooting" view mode set to EYE SENSOR. This flips between the EVF and LCD based on something blocking the EVF sensor. HOWEVER, when the LCD is opened TO ANY position, the eye sensor is disabled. I can even place my thumb directly over the sensor and is does not kill the LCD. When I set the LCD back into the body, the EVH eye sensor goes back to controlling EVF versus LCD. (body firmware version 1.04)

But my X-T4 (also set on EYE SENSOR) functions as the previous poster suggested, causing me to hold the camera a few inches off of my body!

Michael Carroccio
San Antonio, TX USA
http://michaelcarrocciophoto.us

canonbcguy wrote:

X-E4 attempts to do the waist-level LCD like the X-Pro3, but there is a glitch. If you flip out the X-E4 LCD to do waist-level shooting, and you get the camera within 8 inches of your waist, the LCD image will invert. If you move the camera more than 10 inches from your waist, it will be OK. These distances vary from camera to camera and some are much more sensitive than others. As yet, there is no fix for this.

What a weird bug! Does anyone know what causes this?

There is an optical sensor near the eyepiece of the EVF and it works with magnetic sensor switches on the flippy LCD. The glitch happens because your waist emulates the bottom end of the flipped up LCD when you use the LCD in selfie mode.

The camera thinks the LCD is flipped up when it is actually flipped out and at your waist, so it flips the image.

It's a mess. They could fix it with a firmware update, to turn on waist-level mode and turn off selfie mode. So far, no fix.

About an 18mm manual lens:

See this link about the TTartisan 17mm X-mount manual lens ($118):

TTArtisan 17mm f/1.4 Lens for FUJIFILM X (Black) A23B B&H Photo (bhphotovideo.com)

No I haven't tried it but other TTartisan lenses I have are nice, and excellent values.

I got the X-E4 as a more discrete compliment to my X-T4, and tried out both version of the 18mm, ultimately choose the newer f/1.4 since I intended to use it for architecture and landscape more than street, and the edge to edge sharpness is just better.  But the f/2 + X-E4 does make a wonderfully small kit, and just shooting street, the corner/edge/sharpness wouldn't matter as much. I think my (used) copy of the f/2 was decentered more than a bit too.

Here's a thread with some photos of the two 18's on the X-E4 and X-T4 side-by-side, and some sample photos of the lenses in action.

As far as the minimal controls on the X-E4, I adjusted really quickly, and I think I'll set up my X-T4 to match controls when I get it back from repair. (was supposed to have it todayk but, FedEx . . . different rant)

I have the single Function button(right of the shutter) set for MF/CF/AF changed via the front command dial.  But mostly I ended up changing it using the Q Menu, but that's probably because I only switch between AF and CF, when I want to use tracking, and so need to adjust the AF mode as well.

I control SS with the manual dial, mostly leaving it on Auto with minimums set.  ISO is almost always on Auto 1, 2 or 3, and/but can be controlled with the front command dial. One press and the command dial switch between ISO and SS control, for when the shutter dial is set to T(manual)on the dial, or to tweak it when I manually choose a SS on the dial.

Otherwise, I have the touch swipe funtions set to Timer, Film Sim, Shutter type, and something else I can't recall now.

I never really used the Q menu on the X-T4, since it has so many buttons to set, but I spent some time and thought arranging them (all 7, for custom film sims) on the X-E4 and find it really useful.

I've not ever held or used the X-Pro 3, but it seems that if you subtract the grip an SLR hump of the X-T4 they are pretty close in size.  I really love the form factor of the X-E4.  I used it with the 16-55, 70-300, 50-140, and I've never found the lack of grip or thumbrest to be a big issue, but that's me. I'd prefer the X-E3 body as far as that goes, but I wanted the flip out screen for waist level shooting and the extra film sims of the X-E4.

Gun to my head, I'd never give up the X-T4 IBIS if I had to choose one or the other, but I think if I had to choose between the X-E4 and X-Pro 3, and WR wasn't an issue(it would be for me), I'd take the X-E4 for the size factor. It really is almost jacket pocketable with the 18 f/2(no lens hood) and hanging from the camera strap around my neck is barely there.

canonbcguy wrote:.

I sometimes think about the venerable but oddball X70. The trouble is that they are exceedingly hard to find. At a local shop, I had a used one in my hand years ago now but didn't pull the trigger. I still wonder why I let it go.

I got one and used it for a while and it is the only camera I honestly regret selling. But the 18mm lens was just too wide for my taste and I did not like owning two cameras with different batteries and charger ports. But it is a nifty little street camera...

canonbcguy wrote:

I am borrowing a friend's old X-E2 and her older, smaller 18/2 and liked the experience. Nearly weightless compared to my current bodies and lenses.

It has me thinking of getting an X-E4 and either the 18/2 or the newer 18/1.4.

Another option is the X-Pro3 for use with one of those 2 lenses.

If money were not a factor, what could be some key differences between the X-E4 and the X-Pro3?

The intent is to use it for candid street photography. The smaller size of the X-E4 is attractive for stealth.

The X-Pro3 has the option of using the OVF in its hybrid finder but I don't think that's important for me. I shoot with an EVF normally. Having said that, the X-E4's smaller EVF is slightly worrisome (can I assume that it's the same EVF that's in the X-E2? Could it be like that of the X-T10, which is even smaller than that of the X-E2?)

The X-Pro3 is pretty and handles very well, but it's larger and heavier than I'd like for street. It pairs well with larger lenses though.

I'm not sure how I feel about the X-E4 missing the MCS switch on the front. Is it a pain to change modes? The rotary switch on most Fuji bodies is great. I'm not sure why that was sacrificed in the X-E4.

WR is not important. If it's raining, I'm probably not out shooting in it.

X-E3 is still a good camera - it has MCS switch. I have used mine with an OIS lens (18-55) and that works in low light - and really does not look like a "weapon of mass destruction" - rather candid and stealthy.  Camera body with IBIS could also be usable...

X-Pro has more real style of course.

paulhoppe_photography wrote:

I got one and used it for a while and it is the only camera I honestly regret selling. But the 18mm lens was just too wide for my taste and I did not like owning two cameras with different batteries and charger ports. But it is a nifty little street camera...

As it happens I bought one a few days ago, expecting to replace my XF10 with it. In the end, I’m sending it back and keeping the XF10 despite its shortcomings. I found the X70 a bit of an ergonomic disaster: two buttons I essentially couldn’t press at all because they were too close to either the exposure compensation dial or the bulky screen, and most of the others were tricky. The weight also made it awkward to use single-handed, and the AF seemed worse then the XF10. Just didn’t quite hit the mark—but a very capable camera for its size.