T6s vs 77D autofocus

i briefly had a T6s, and i got great pics with it. autofocus was very good, lots of keepers with birds in flight, good exposure when in shutter priority. but they had a great sale on the 77D, so i exchanged my T6S for a 77D.

i stopped taking pics soon after. i figured looking back it was just a change in life, but i wasn't getting fired up to go shoot. but i recently checked huge amounts of pics by camera, and discovered the autofocus on the 77D using the exact same copy of the 55-250 lens wasn't even close to the T6s. with the T6s, i had 85% or 90% keepers for birds in flight, with the 77D, it's maybe 45% or 40%. and it's no fun taking pics when so many are misses.

so i'm wondering - is this sample variation? is my copy of the 77D worse at focusing than most? was my copy of the T6s typical in its good autofocus, which was not only better than my 77D but better than my old SL1 or do T6s cameras just have good autofocus in general.

Digirame wrote:

I could only guess that your Canon 77D is a copy variation; I hadn't heard of problems with that camera. I'm sorry to hear that it's not been performing as well. Maybe you could address that on the other forum, to find out whether it is a user error or something wrong with the camera.

If you can't figure it out, try getting a hold of a Canon T7i (800D) or Canon T8i (850D) or a Canon 80D or Canon 90D etc. and see if it's better for you. I have purchased a lot of my cameras on-line and get great discounts doing it that way, but I'm not able to test the cameras out first (like at a retail store). I really like my Canon T7i (800D) cameras.

It's been slow for me to like using the Canon M50 MKII, but I've been able to find ways to get it to work to my satisfaction. I think the DSLRs are still better overall than the M mirrorless ones (in my opinion using the M50 MKII as a reference), but the mirrorless are neat in that they are so small and lightweight with the EF-M lenses. I still use both of the systems and have not had any problems with the autofocus.

if it's user error, it's the only camera i've had this user error with.  i haven't experienced such a low rate of keepers with the T6S, the T2i, the 30D, my sony and micro four thirds mirrorless and a grroup of canon, nikon and panasonic megazoom or advanced compacts.   since i try a variety of types of autofocus before giving up, along with a variety of settings, i can't write off user error, but i can't really see how it could be.

i'm guessing sample variation, which is disappointing.

how's the autofocus on canon mirrorless when shooting moving subjects?  i shoot sea birds in flight - they're not the fastest birds, but they are definitely moving.

Digirame wrote:

I haven't tested the M50 MKII with birds in flight or fast action, but the autofocus seems just as good as my Canon T7i (800D) cameras in that regard. For wildlife photography, the mirrorless cameras I have just seem a little bit too small. Other things about the mirrorless cameras are too small, like a person needs a little longer fingernails to operate the pad or buttons on the back or top. But I'm starting to get used to it; It's just quite a bit of a change.

If you really like to take photos of birds in flight I think the Canon 90D or Canon 7D MKII would be best from what I hear. But the Canon T7i (800D) camera that I have (I have three of them) works extremely well with the autofocus with nine center cross-type points. I suppose I should try the 45 autofocus points, but I just don't take enough pictures of birds in flight. I think it's because of where I take pictures, there's just so many trees around that block the view. I know of one reservoir that's good, but there's mostly geese there.

I'm now using the Canon T7i (800D) camera with the Tamron 150-600mm lens for bird photography. I bought three Canon T7i (800D) cameras which may seem excessive (and probably is), but that's because I'm just so happy with them. I got excellent prices for them on-line (body only), much better than I could at retail stores.

Then I had an idea to try mirrorless (bought two of them). That's been good too, but there's a big learning curve for that smaller camera. The last thing I discovered was to disable the camera from automatically changing to MF from AF, during one of my photo sessions (in the menu). There's other quirks too, like if you are planning to use the viewfinder and then chimp with the LCD screen, there's an annoying sensor that shuts off the LCD screen if you get too close (like for near sighted people). The workaround was to pull the LCD screen away from the body so that the forehead would not activate the sensor. The battery life is shorter too.

Rocket13 (who posts his birds-in-flight on the Show Your Snaps thread at times) does a fantastic job of capturing them with a Canon 90D and a Canon EF 100-400mm lens. He was using the Tamron 150-600mm lens but found that combination too heavy or difficult to use. Rocket also was using a Tamron 100-400mm lens.

I think you would be ecstatic to use something like a Canon 80D, Canon 90D, 7D MK2, T7i (800D) or T8i (850D) camera. The autofocus locks on quite quickly. Check the reviews. Some people like the Canon M6 MKII, but there's no viewfinder, unless you buy a separate one to add on. I don't want to be negative about the M mirrorless systems, but I think they still need refinement until they reach the level of Canon crop DSLR cameras. I know very little about the R systems, except that they generally are more expensive and there's no crop factor for full frame.

i have wrist and shoulder damage and tendonitis, and i prefer to shoot hand-held. on a good day, i can handle a camera up to a pound with a lightweight lens. mostly they need to be under a pound. otherwise i'd have gotten a 7D.

sea birds are relatively easy to shoot, and we live by several beaches, piers and marinas where they stay close. that's great because i can't manage a heavy lens.  i did once rent a nikon P900. and its 2000mm zoom caught shots that blew me away, but the quality wasn't the best and the lower light pics were pretty bad.

i started this thread because i got such good BIF results then i realized with the T6S - it surprised me how good, actually. and keep mind that was with the 55-250 lens. and the lowest keeper rate of any removable lens camera with the 77D. so i was just wondering whether i had an exceptionally good T6S or a bit of a dud of a 77D. i much prefer 2 dials, but i suppose a T7i or T8i could work. my son's T5i didn't blow me away, but i only used it a little.  maybe lensrentals will have a newer rebel i could try...

Digirame wrote:

Here's more information about people using more than 200mm FL for their M mirrorless cameras.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65817791

For me the practical thing to do, is just to keep using my Canon DSLR camera with the Tamron 150-600mm lens. But it does weigh a lot. It's doable when a person cradles it like a baby, but with any type of disability that you describe that is painful for you, then I would imagine it would be difficult.

When I was taking pictures of birds with the Canon 55-250mm lens, I learned how to stay perfectly still near the bird feeder. One time I sat down on a log and after about 15 minutes the birds came close and I got incredibly good pictures without having that "monster" Tamron telephoto lens. Other options with smaller telephoto lenses is to make or buy a bird screen, like one that completely covers you like a tent. Check on-line for that option. Then you will earn bragging rights for these super good photos with the shorter focal length telephoto lens.

we live in a condo complex, so no feeder plus no way to stop others from disturbing the birds. they're quite skittish here, and it often took 600mm or more to get them - obviously i've experimented with megazooms like the canon SX50, nikon P610 and P900 (which is now too much camera for me to hold).

maybe i'll rent a T7i or T8i and see how that works out.

what do you think of the SL3? it's lighter, always a plus for me.

i love shooting sea birds - pelicans, seagulls, egrets, herons, cormorants,msand pipers, etc - in flight or not. i'm not the best at it, but i love doing it and i love the pics.  plus sea birds around here often stay close enough for 250mm (or even 210mm) to sometimes be enough, and they're just so cool!

the one above could use some cropping, but still...

Digirame wrote:

I love your bird photos, especially the last one. I believe the Canon SL3 does not have as many cross-type AF points as the Canon T7i (800D) or Canon T8i (850D) cameras. You might check that on the internet to see if my memory about that is correct.

thank you

i'm pretty sure you're right about the T7i and the SL3.

it appears the T6S has 19 AF points, all cross types while dpreview says the SL3 has 9 AF points that "includes a new Spot AF", so it doesn't sound like those measly 8 other points are cross types. my old SL1 had the same 9 AF points but with a different center point that was a cross type, as i recall.

it's a shame that 2 generations and years later, canon can't spring for more focus points or more cross types. i know they don't want to cannibalize their own sales, but apparently they think those of us who need smaller cameras don't need modern AF.

patticake wrote:

it's a shame that 2 generations and years later, canon can't spring for more focus points or more cross types. i know they don't want to cannibalize their own sales, but apparently they think those of us who need smaller cameras don't need modern AF.

That was one of the reasons I got the T8i. It has 45 cross points, and in their Group A lenses (mostly their fixed focal length lenses), the center point is a dual cross point (diagonal as well as horizontal and vertical).

Steve Thomas

patticake wrote:

Digirame wrote:

Here's more information about people using more than 200mm FL for their M mirrorless cameras.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65817791

For me the practical thing to do, is just to keep using my Canon DSLR camera with the Tamron 150-600mm lens. But it does weigh a lot. It's doable when a person cradles it like a baby, but with any type of disability that you describe that is painful for you, then I would imagine it would be difficult.

When I was taking pictures of birds with the Canon 55-250mm lens, I learned how to stay perfectly still near the bird feeder. One time I sat down on a log and after about 15 minutes the birds came close and I got incredibly good pictures without having that "monster" Tamron telephoto lens. Other options with smaller telephoto lenses is to make or buy a bird screen, like one that completely covers you like a tent. Check on-line for that option. Then you will earn bragging rights for these super good photos with the shorter focal length telephoto lens.

we live in a condo complex, so no feeder plus no way to stop others from disturbing the birds. they're quite skittish here, and it often took 600mm or more to get them - obviously i've experimented with megazooms like the canon SX50, nikon P610 and P900 (which is now too much camera for me to hold).

maybe i'll rent a T7i or T8i and see how that works out.

what do you think of the SL3? it's lighter, always a plus for me.

i love shooting sea birds - pelicans, seagulls, egrets, herons, cormorants,msand pipers, etc - in flight or not. i'm not the best at it, but i love doing it and i love the pics. plus sea birds around here often stay close enough for 250mm (or even 210mm) to sometimes be enough, and they're just so cool!

the one above could use some cropping, but still...

I have used the SL3 a bit, it is a nice camera.  But only 9 AF points.  I own the T8i and the 7DII and the AF systems on both of those cameras would be better for BIF