Andaman Sea Blackwater

It's way too quiet here lately; here's a few photos to liven up the place.

Some kind of jellyfish that looked pretty

I thought it was a worm, but on closer inspection it turned out to be a salp colony

This squid literally bumped into my leg

...then proceeded to circle around me for several minutes

Need an ID on this one

Seeking shelter, or feeding frenzy?

Some kind of filefish

Driftfish?

No idea on this one

A sea butterfly

Again no idea

A bit unusual to see a fully-grown seahorse drifting without holding on to anything

Another angle on the same

Little jellyfish - the latest in hat fashion

Larval butterflyfish

Snake blenny

Larval squirrelfish

You found very nice fish, but your camera settings are wrong. What kind of light did you use?

gokhankuzu wrote:

You found very nice fish, but your camera settings are wrong.

What's wrong with them?

What kind of light did you use?

Two Retra Pro strobes with reflectors, Weefine Smart Focus 1000 for focusing, XTAR D26 2500lm for spotting. The images are from two dives; first dive I shot the strobes in manual (mostly half power), second one I shot them in TTL using a UW-Technics converter.

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

gokhankuzu wrote:

You found very nice fish, but your camera settings are wrong.

What's wrong with them?

What kind of light did you use?

Two Retra Pro strobes with reflectors, Weefine Smart Focus 1000 for focusing, XTAR D26 2500lm for spotting. The images are from two dives; first dive I shot the strobes in manual (mostly half power), second one I shot them in TTL using a UW-Technics converter.

You used flash first, then why iso 800?
Why is your f value 25? You may have wanted to make the background dark, there is no need to narrow the aperture that much. You should be able to get the same background in f11 led. Quality decreases after f11. f25 and iso800 reduce the quality of the photo and reduce its sharpness. You have a TTL converter, iso 100 always gives the best quality, the more you increase it, the worse it gets.

gokhankuzu wrote:

You used flash first, then why iso 800?

Because when shooting translucent critters at small apertures, even powerful strobes don't have enough output to work reliably at ISO 100. As I understand it, ISO 800 is where the dual gain circuit on A6xxx cameras kicks in, so shooting anything between 100 and 800 is largely pointless (on blackwater dives; day dives have different considerations), as is any setting above 800.

Why is your f value 25? You may have wanted to make the background dark, there is no need to narrow the aperture that much.

Depth of field. This is a blackwater dive, conducted at night, in open water, away from a reef. The bottom is at roughly 80 meters (in this case); the only visual reference is a drifting line hung from a buoy with some torches on it. The subjects range from small (a few centimeters) to tiny (millimeters) and tend to constantly move in all three dimensions. AF-C tracking helps a little bit, but it only goes so far.

Quality decreases after f11. f25 and iso800 reduce the quality of the photo and reduce its sharpness.

It does, and they do, but missing focus on a tiny moving target reduces the quality far more.

You have a TTL converter, iso 100 always gives the best quality, the more you increase it, the worse it gets.

In TTL mode, output range of Retra strobes is somewhat limited. I was chasing a larval crab (a brown ball maybe 5mm in diameter) and as shots taken at f/25 kept coming out of focus, I tried to crank it up to f/32 for a little more DoF. Surprise, the next shot came out significantly underexposed.

Edit: Oh, and while some subjects are translucent, others are reflective, and some are both at the same time (e.g. translucent body with reflective internal organs). You're in mostly total darkness, so you can only see them while they're in your torch beam, and some of them are attracted by the light, so they swim at you, past the focus point of the lens, and hide between you and the camera. Others dislike the bright lights and skedaddle shortly after getting discovered, going much faster and deeper than you can follow. If you pause and start playing with your camera settings to get them just right, chances are near certain that the subject will disappear, and your perfectly set up shot will capture an empty field of plankton.

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

gokhankuzu wrote:

You used flash first, then why iso 800?

Because when shooting translucent critters at small apertures, even powerful strobes don't have enough output to work reliably at ISO 100. As I understand it, ISO 800 is where the dual gain circuit on A6xxx cameras kicks in, so shooting anything between 100 and 800 is largely pointless (on blackwater dives; day dives have different considerations), as is any setting above 800.

No. When you use flash, iso 800 degrades the quality of the photo at least 4 times. It prevents you from getting details. You can experience it. You have a TTL converter, a check with 100 iso in the same shot and one with 800. And see the difference.

Why is your f value 25? You may have wanted to make the background dark, there is no need to narrow the aperture that much.

Depth of field. This is a blackwater dive, conducted at night, in open water, away from a reef. The bottom is at roughly 80 meters (in this case); the only visual reference is a drifting line hung from a buoy with some torches on it. The subjects range from small (a few centimeters) to tiny (millimeters) and tend to constantly move in all three dimensions. AF-C tracking helps a little bit, but it only goes so far.

You got a side view of the fish in your photos and even f8 is too much for clear focus depth of field. You have a TTL converter. Again, at the same time, take the aperture to 8 and shoot the same. The difference will be unbelievable and the quality will increase a lot. After f11, the light will shine and you can't get enough detail.

Quality decreases after f11. f25 and iso800 reduce the quality of the photo and reduce its sharpness.

It does, and they do, but missing focus on a tiny moving target reduces the quality far more.

Try f8 and iso 100 and see the difference. You will track much better with your diaphragm wide. Because your camera sensor will see the light. for F25 can't see anything.

You have a TTL converter, iso 100 always gives the best quality, the more you increase it, the worse it gets.

In TTL mode, output range of Retra strobes is somewhat limited. I was chasing a larval crab (a brown ball maybe 5mm in diameter) and as shots taken at f/25 kept coming out of focus, I tried to crank it up to f/32 for a little more DoF. Surprise, the next shot came out significantly underexposed.

TTL converter will provide the best light in all conditions. Changing the diaphragm from 8 to 25 to 32 will not gain you anything. You should try to approach the fish more sensitively. F32 and f25 take very poor-quality photos.

gokhankuzu wrote:

No. When you use flash, iso 800 degrades the quality of the photo at least 4 times. It prevents you from getting details. You can experience it. You have a TTL converter, a check with 100 iso in the same shot and one with 800. And see the difference.

With ISO 100, the shot will be massively underexposed, and I will have to turn up the exposure in post-processing to get a usable image. However, I just looked it up, and found that I misremembered about dual-gain kicking in at ISO 800 - it comes in at ISO 400. See here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57425727

You got a side view of the fish in your photos and even f8 is too much for clear focus depth of field.

The extra depth of field is there to compensate for the camera not putting the focus at exactly the right point when the shot is taken. It's a buffer that accounts for the subject (and camera) movement.

You have a TTL converter. Again, at the same time, take the aperture to 8 and shoot the same. The difference will be unbelievable and the quality will increase a lot. After f11, the light will shine and you can't get enough detail.

Let's see your blackwater shots taken at f/8. Mine are a blurry mess.

Try f8 and iso 100 and see the difference. You will track much better with your diaphragm wide. Because your camera sensor will see the light. for F25 can't see anything.

A6300 keeps the diaphragm open while focusing; it only stops down to the configured value while taking the shot.

TTL converter will provide the best light in all conditions.

No it won't, and believe me, I've tried. It kinda-sorta works in a limited range of apertures while shooting macro; all my attempts at using TTL with Retra strobes while shooting wide-angle ended up with extremely dark shots. Funnily enough, when I was using SeaFrogs ST-100 Pro strobes and triggering off the pop-up flash, TTL worked much better (but there was no manual option). With the Retras, I'm using manual mode on all dives except blackwater.

Changing the diaphragm from 8 to 25 to 32 will not gain you anything. You should try to approach the fish more sensitively. F32 and f25 take very poor-quality photos.

Are you speaking from personal experience or photo theory? If it's the former, please post some of your blackwater images taken with the settings that you recommend. If it's the latter, I suggest you take your camera on a blackwater dive and get some appreciation of the operational challenges involved. Your profile puts you in US; I don't know if there's much blackwater diving conducted in California, but Florida is one of the bigger blackwater hotspots.

The extra depth of field is there to compensate for the camera not putting the focus at exactly the right point when the shot is taken. It's a buffer that accounts for the subject (and camera) movement.

Wrong. If you shoot in full focus, the extra depth of field provides a clear depth of field. Sharpness is lost as soon as the camera or fish is out of focus. the entire depth of field deviates from clarity when the focus changes. When using diopters like +5, +10, values like f25 are useful. Unless you're using a diopter, f25 just dims the entire image behind the fish. As long as you open the diaphragm, the whole image behind the fish begins to light up.

Let's see your blackwater shots taken at f/8. Mine are a blurry mess.

I am writing again, after f11, the light falling on all sensors is diffracted and the quality deteriorates. That's why none of the fish you put in is clear enough. You can't get quality photos at f25. Sharpness depends on shutter speed and the moment you focus. I'll find the f8s samples on my hard drive and put it here for you later.

No it won't, and believe me, I've tried. It kinda-sorta works in a limited range of apertures while shooting macro; all my attempts at using TTL with Retra strobes while shooting wide-angle ended up with extremely dark shots. Funnily enough, when I was using SeaFrogs ST-100 Pro strobes and triggering off the pop-up flash, TTL worked much better (but there was no manual option). With the Retras, I'm using manual mode on all dives except blackwater.

Then your TTL converter is not electrically connected. So you are triggering the slave with fiber optic cable. Flashes fire twice when TTL runs. It measures in the first combustion and gives the appropriate light in the second combustion. LED converter cannot do this. So your converter must be fully compatible with your flash. If it is not compatible, it means that TTL does not work, it just triggers. When TTL works correctly, if you shoot with f1.4 or f32, the light on the fish will not change, it will be the same. But when it works right. And while shooting the fish, you can change the aperture in seconds and shoot at any f value. All your photos come out perfect. Any overexposed underexposed does not occur. Between f15-f32, the back side of the fish starts to get dark. f25 shots in a very bright place are perceived as a night shot.

Are you speaking from personal experience or photo theory? If it's the former, please post some of your blackwater images taken with the settings that you recommend. If it's the latter, I suggest you take your camera on a blackwater dive and get some appreciation of the operational challenges involved. Your profile puts you in US; I don't know if there's much blackwater diving conducted in California, but Florida is one of the bigger blackwater hotspots.

What exactly do you mean by blackwater? Night diving, cave diving, hole diving, under the rock diving or diving in dark waters below 60 meters? I am a photogrammetry engineer and I have 25 years of underwater photography experience. All my equipment so far is professional grade. I generally used Sea&Sea systems. I had it done in special-custom products.

gokhankuzu wrote:

Wrong. If you shoot in full focus, the extra depth of field provides a clear depth of field. Sharpness is lost as soon as the camera or fish is out of focus. the entire depth of field deviates from clarity when the focus changes. When using diopters like +5, +10, values like f25 are useful. Unless you're using a diopter, f25 just dims the entire image behind the fish. As long as you open the diaphragm, the whole image behind the fish begins to light up.

There is nothing to 'dim behind the fish' aside from some plankton.

Let's see your blackwater shots taken at f/8. Mine are a blurry mess.

I am writing again, after f11, the light falling on all sensors is diffracted and the quality deteriorates. That's why none of the fish you put in is clear enough. You can't get quality photos at f25. Sharpness depends on shutter speed and the moment you focus. I'll find the f8s samples on my hard drive and put it here for you later.

I'm referring specifically to images taken on blackwater dives.

Then your TTL converter is not electrically connected.

Of course it isn't. Had you bothered to look up the specs on Retra Flash Prime/Pro, you'd know that it only features optical input.

What exactly do you mean by blackwater? Night diving, cave diving, hole diving, under the rock diving or diving in dark waters below 60 meters? I am a photogrammetry engineer and I have 25 years of underwater photography experience. All my equipment so far is professional grade. I generally used Sea&Sea systems. I had it done in special-custom products.

Oh, so you simply have zero comprehension of what I'm talking about... okay.

Blackwater dives are conducted at night, in open water, away from the reef or any other solid features. Depending on location, depths can range from a few tens of meters (I was diving over 78m of water) to kilometers (places like Hawaii feature some spectacularly deep drop-offs). Regardless, you're not expected to see the bottom at any point during the dive. Prior to the dive, a buoy with an attached 15-20m line is released into the water; the line has a number of powerful LED torches attached to it at regular intervals. The line is free to drift with the currents, and the illuminated buoy is used by the boat crew to track it. The torches serve two functions. One, they provide a visual reference for the divers - they are visible from a significant distance away, and help you to return to the group if you drift away. Two, the light serves to attract various small critters, which attract predators, which in turn attract bigger predators, and so on. This type of diving is notable for encountering the larval and juvenile forms of many marine animals that are pelagic early in their lifecycle, before metamorphosing into their adult forms and settling on the bottom. Likewise, you an encounter creatures that spend the daylight at significant depths inaccessible to divers, and migrate upwards in the water column to feed during night-time.

However, with everything being free-swimming, often transparent, reflective, or both at the same time, subject sizes trending toward the small and tiny, water being dense with planktonic particles, and anything outside your torch beam being completely invisible, difficulties in obtaining properly focused and lit images are... considerable. If you check out the blackwater diving group on Facebook, where many images include the settings at which they were taken, you will find that f/18~f/25 is the most common aperture range, for precisely the reasons I have outlined in my earlier posts. If you want to prove that most everyone shooting blackwater is Doing It Wrong™, and you're right - get a flight to Florida, do a few blackwater dives with any of the multitude of operators who are doing these dives over there, and post your work. No, images taken on a reef, or during regular night dives do not count - the challenges are completely different, even if you're absolutely certain that your imagination tells you they aren't.

Oh, so you simply have zero comprehension of what I'm talking about... okay.

Blackwater dives are conducted at night, in open water, away from the reef or any other solid features. Depending on location, depths can range from a few tens of meters (I was diving over 78m of water) to kilometers (places like Hawaii feature some spectacularly deep drop-offs). Regardless, you're not expected to see the bottom at any point during the dive. Prior to the dive, a buoy with an attached 15-20m line is released into the water; the line has a number of powerful LED torches attached to it at regular intervals. The line is free to drift with the currents, and the illuminated buoy is used by the boat crew to track it. The torches serve two functions. One, they provide a visual reference for the divers - they are visible from a significant distance away, and help you to return to the group if you drift away. Two, the light serves to attract various small critters, which attract predators, which in turn attract bigger predators, and so on. This type of diving is notable for encountering the larval and juvenile forms of many marine animals that are pelagic early in their lifecycle, before metamorphosing into their adult forms and settling on the bottom. Likewise, you an encounter creatures that spend the daylight at significant depths inaccessible to divers, and migrate upwards in the water column to feed during night-time.

However, with everything being free-swimming, often transparent, reflective, or both at the same time, subject sizes trending toward the small and tiny, water being dense with planktonic particles, and anything outside your torch beam being completely invisible, difficulties in obtaining properly focused and lit images are... considerable. If you check out the blackwater diving group on Facebook, where many images include the settings at which they were taken, you will find that f/18~f/25 is the most common aperture range, for precisely the reasons I have outlined in my earlier posts. If you want to prove that most everyone shooting blackwater is Doing It Wrong™, and you're right - get a flight to Florida, do a few blackwater dives with any of the multitude of operators who are doing these dives over there, and post your work. No, images taken on a reef, or during regular night dives do not count - the challenges are completely different, even if you're absolutely certain that your imagination tells you they aren't.

It's very interesting. I have done a lot of open water diving but not open water dives as you mentioned. I dove under Oriskany wreck in Pensacola and did many buoy dives but not night. TTL is useless in those dives, focus light or torchlight will mislead TTL. But this is a night dive and the f value is definitely wrong and also iso value. You should take the photo the moment you focus on it. f8- max f11 and iso 100 will give you incomparably better results than f25 and 800.

gokhankuzu wrote:

TTL is useless in those dives, focus light or torchlight will mislead TTL.

On the opposite, TTL is quite useful when you're dealing with subjects that can be translucent (need lots of light) or reflective (need just a little light), and you have no time to play with the settings.

But this is a night dive and the f value is definitely wrong and also iso value. You should take the photo the moment you focus on it. f8- max f11 and iso 100 will give you incomparably better results than f25 and 800.

As I said, prove me wrong. Hop over to Florida, go on a blackwater dive or three - plenty of operators running them there, - then post your images taken at f/8 and ISO 100. My experience is that without extra DoF buffer afforded by small apertures, subjects will move out of focus during the fraction of a second it takes to pull the trigger, lens aperture to stop down, and optionally the strobes to fire a TTL metering pre-flash. Consecutively, a small aperture at base ISO values ends up needing more light output than the strobes can supply, hence the increase in ISO. My setting of 800 was indeed somewhat higher than needed, as I had misremembered a certain feature of my camera - for me, using a Sony A6300, the optimal ISO value is 400.

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

gokhankuzu wrote:

TTL is useless in those dives, focus light or torchlight will mislead TTL.

On the opposite, TTL is quite useful when you're dealing with subjects that can be translucent (need lots of light) or reflective (need just a little light), and you have no time to play with the settings.

TTL is good, but your focus lights and other all light must be turned off when flash firing, otherwise, it will be overexposed. For real TTL you have to use sony flashes in the housing with full electrical connection.

But this is a night dive and the f value is definitely wrong and also iso value. You should take the photo the moment you focus on it. f8- max f11 and iso 100 will give you incomparably better results than f25 and 800.

As I said, prove me wrong. Hop over to Florida, go on a blackwater dive or three - plenty of operators running them there, - then post your images taken at f/8 and ISO 100. My experience is that without extra DoF buffer afforded by small apertures, subjects will move out of focus during the fraction of a second it takes to pull the trigger, lens aperture to stop down, and optionally the strobes to fire a TTL metering pre-flash. Consecutively, a small aperture at base ISO values ends up needing more light output than the strobes can supply, hence the increase in ISO. My setting of 800 was indeed somewhat higher than needed, as I had misremembered a certain feature of my camera - for me, using a Sony A6300, the optimal ISO value is 400.

You don't need an extra dof. The dof of f8 is even too much for the objects in your photos. You will only shoot the moment you focus on it. No waiting, you have to hunt the image. The moment the object moves out of focus, the dof does not capture it in the right focus. This thinking is wrong. Even if it stays in DOF, the object cannot come out clearly. You are there, try it and see for yourself and say I did, look what happened.

gokhankuzu wrote:

TTL is good, but your focus lights and other all light must be turned off when flash firing, otherwise, it will be overexposed. For real TTL you have to use sony flashes in the housing with full electrical connection.

That is... not how it works. That is not how any of it works.

You don't need an extra dof. The dof of f8 is even too much for the objects in your photos. You will only shoot the moment you focus on it. No waiting, you have to hunt the image. The moment the object moves out of focus, the dof does not capture it in the right focus. This thinking is wrong. Even if it stays in DOF, the object cannot come out clearly. You are there, try it and see for yourself and say I did, look what happened.

Wonderful, professor; now mind showing off your images that you've taken using these settings? If you don't want to go diving to do it, let's say you simulate it - shoot a flying insect (moth, fly, mosquito), at night, in darkness, with handheld lights and camera, while jogging.

gokhankuzu wrote:

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

gokhankuzu wrote:

You used flash first, then why iso 800?

Because when shooting translucent critters at small apertures, even powerful strobes don't have enough output to work reliably at ISO 100. As I understand it, ISO 800 is where the dual gain circuit on A6xxx cameras kicks in, so shooting anything between 100 and 800 is largely pointless (on blackwater dives; day dives have different considerations), as is any setting above 800.

No. When you use flash, iso 800 degrades the quality of the photo at least 4 times. It prevents you from getting details. You can experience it. You have a TTL converter, a check with 100 iso in the same shot and one with 800. And see the difference.

Why is your f value 25? You may have wanted to make the background dark, there is no need to narrow the aperture that much.

Depth of field. This is a blackwater dive, conducted at night, in open water, away from a reef. The bottom is at roughly 80 meters (in this case); the only visual reference is a drifting line hung from a buoy with some torches on it. The subjects range from small (a few centimeters) to tiny (millimeters) and tend to constantly move in all three dimensions. AF-C tracking helps a little bit, but it only goes so far.

You got a side view of the fish in your photos and even f8 is too much for clear focus depth of field. You have a TTL converter. Again, at the same time, take the aperture to 8 and shoot the same. The difference will be unbelievable and the quality will increase a lot. After f11, the light will shine and you can't get enough detail.

Quality decreases after f11. f25 and iso800 reduce the quality of the photo and reduce its sharpness.

It does, and they do, but missing focus on a tiny moving target reduces the quality far more.

Try f8 and iso 100 and see the difference. You will track much better with your diaphragm wide. Because your camera sensor will see the light. for F25 can't see anything.

You have a TTL converter, iso 100 always gives the best quality, the more you increase it, the worse it gets.

In TTL mode, output range of Retra strobes is somewhat limited. I was chasing a larval crab (a brown ball maybe 5mm in diameter) and as shots taken at f/25 kept coming out of focus, I tried to crank it up to f/32 for a little more DoF. Surprise, the next shot came out significantly underexposed.

TTL converter will provide the best light in all conditions. Changing the diaphragm from 8 to 25 to 32 will not gain you anything. You should try to approach the fish more sensitively. F32 and f25 take very poor-quality photos.

Topaz Sharpen can greatly reduce the effects of diffraction.

Don Cox

kelpdiver wrote:

ugh....I have to echo B's remarks - if you didn't know what a blackwater dive is, you have no business lecturing him on what his settings should be.

I do. I've dived hundreds of times at night, capturing moving objects. If something is wrong, it is wrong, it doesn't change the right that many people do wrong.

A key reason why you need all the DoF you can get is that your targets are not static. You're floating in open water and it is floating or swimming in open water, and may respond adversely to the focus light. This works against full frame sensors, and may force manual focus only.

I suspect also that the images are crops., rather than a full frame composition, for the same reasons. So TTL is unlikely to do a lick of good. And for the same reasons, needs all the light possible.

Squid are among the most frustrating targets as they rarely stay still for more than a second or two. The translucent jellies are more difficult to focus on, but they are more likely to be drifters, or can't move very fast.

Objects that move after focusing do not stay in focus in DOF until the moment of shooting.

If the object is moving, f32 won't give you a DOF. The important thing is to shoot as soon as you focus. There is no point in using f20-32 instead of f8-11.

High ISO won't help you freeze the image. 100 iso and 100000 iso freeze images with the same success. High iso only helps to make background images more distinct and you do not have such a purpose in blackwater shooting. TTL always works well at ISO 100.

An image is frozen when the flash light hits the object and therefore the sensor. If the speed of the moving objects is more than the shutter lag, blurry will occur behind the image. The only thing that matters is the shutter speed. There is no reason to do 160 instead of 200. If you can do HSS, you should.

D Cox wrote

Topaz Sharpen can greatly reduce the effects of diffraction.

Don Cox

Big data loss occurs in diffraction, especially between f15-32. Trying to bring it back artificially afterward is not taking a real photo.

kelpdiver wrote:

gokhankuzu wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

ugh....I have to echo B's remarks - if you didn't know what a blackwater dive is, you have no business lecturing him on what his settings should be.

I do. I've dived hundreds of times at night, capturing moving objects. If something is wrong, it is wrong, it doesn't change the right that many people do wrong.

Ok, so show us some pics of open ocean sea horses and jellies. Or lacking those, your other moving objects.

I would use F/8 as the default on my 4/3rds macro shooting, but not on my FF R5, even in daylight.

Objects that move after focusing do not stay in focus in DOF until the moment of shooting.

If the object is moving, f32 won't give you a DOF. The important thing is to shoot as soon as you focus. There is no point in using f20-32 instead of f8-11.

High ISO won't help you freeze the image. 100 iso and 100000 iso freeze images with the same success. High iso only helps to make background images more distinct and you do not have such a purpose in blackwater shooting. TTL always works well at ISO 100.

An image is frozen when the flash light hits the object and therefore the sensor. If the speed of the moving objects is more than the shutter lag, blurry will occur behind the image. The only thing that matters is the shutter speed. There is no reason to do 160 instead of 200. If you can do HSS, you should.

You're conflating the high ISO with the DoF choice, and again seems to reinforce that you do not actually understand this very well.

You did not understand what I wrote.

DoF considerations are about the difficulty in maintaining the distance between the subject and the camera when neither are fixed. Dealing with that is the name of the game with blackwater dives.

Sorry, you still do not understand what I wrote.

High ISO is about making up for the limitations of light weight strobes. Unless he had to lower the exposure of these in post, I don't see an issue with overexposure.

? lightweight strobes? all are min GN20. and even 15 GN for these shots, even more.

As for TTL, I've yet to see an expert recommend its use.

There is a saying among amateurs who want to be seen as an expert.. I hate ttl

I think Bergamot knows what to do and is right in choosing TTL.

gokhankuzu wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

gokhankuzu wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

ugh....I have to echo B's remarks - if you didn't know what a blackwater dive is, you have no business lecturing him on what his settings should be.

I do. I've dived hundreds of times at night, capturing moving objects. If something is wrong, it is wrong, it doesn't change the right that many people do wrong.

Ok, so show us some pics of open ocean sea horses and jellies. Or lacking those, your other moving objects.

I would use F/8 as the default on my 4/3rds macro shooting, but not on my FF R5, even in daylight.

Objects that move after focusing do not stay in focus in DOF until the moment of shooting.

If the object is moving, f32 won't give you a DOF. The important thing is to shoot as soon as you focus. There is no point in using f20-32 instead of f8-11.

High ISO won't help you freeze the image. 100 iso and 100000 iso freeze images with the same success. High iso only helps to make background images more distinct and you do not have such a purpose in blackwater shooting. TTL always works well at ISO 100.

An image is frozen when the flash light hits the object and therefore the sensor. If the speed of the moving objects is more than the shutter lag, blurry will occur behind the image. The only thing that matters is the shutter speed. There is no reason to do 160 instead of 200. If you can do HSS, you should.

You're conflating the high ISO with the DoF choice, and again seems to reinforce that you do not actually understand this very well.

You did not understand what I wrote.

DoF considerations are about the difficulty in maintaining the distance between the subject and the camera when neither are fixed. Dealing with that is the name of the game with blackwater dives.

Sorry, you still do not understand what I wrote.

High ISO is about making up for the limitations of light weight strobes. Unless he had to lower the exposure of these in post, I don't see an issue with overexposure.

? lightweight strobes? all are min GN20. and even 15 GN for these shots, even more.

As for TTL, I've yet to see an expert recommend its use.

There is a saying among amateurs who want to be seen as an expert.. I hate ttl

I think Barmaglot knows what to do and is right in choosing TTL.