IBIS not working with new Samyang AF 12mm?

Hello everyone!

I've just bought the new Samyang AF 12mm 2.0 lens for my Fuji X-S10 camera. I've been using the MF version of that lens for quite some time.

Entering the focal lenght in the mount adaptor settings, I have been able to use the IBIS with the old MF lens. Thereby I could easily hand-hold shutter speeds of 1/2s and often even 1s, with images generally being tack sharp.

Now with the new one, which automatically transmits its focal length of 12mm to the camera (checked the EXIF), IBIS doesn't seem to work, even though it's correctly turned on. I've tried both IS Modes: 1 and 2.

I have no chance of getting good sharpness with shutter speeds of 1/2s. Even with 1/8s oder 1/15s the rate of blurry images is quite high. Turning IS off confirms this, as there is now difference in image sharpness between IS mode "off" and "1" or "2".

Has anyone else had these problems? Is there a general problem of Fuji bodies not using IS with electronically connected third party lenses?

It seems odd, as the correct focal length is clearly transmitted, but the X-S10 just refuses to use the IS. Firmware is the newest v2.10 btw.

Thanks!

Noracsa wrote:

Hello everyone!

I've just bought the new Samyang AF 12mm 2.0 lens for my Fuji X-S10 camera. I've been using the MF version of that lens for quite some time.

Entering the focal lenght in the mount adaptor settings, I have been able to use the IBIS with the old MF lens. Thereby I could easily hand-hold shutter speeds of 1/2s and often even 1s, with images generally being tack sharp.

Now with the new one, which automatically transmits its focal length of 12mm to the camera (checked the EXIF), IBIS doesn't seem to work, even though it's correctly turned on. I've tried both IS Modes: 1 and 2.

I have no chance of getting good sharpness with shutter speeds of 1/2s. Even with 1/8s oder 1/15s the rate of blurry images is quite high. Turning IS off confirms this, as there is now difference in image sharpness between IS mode "off" and "1" or "2".

Has anyone else had these problems? Is there a general problem of Fuji bodies not using IS with electronically connected third party lenses?

It seems odd, as the correct focal length is clearly transmitted, but the X-S10 just refuses to use the IS. Firmware is the newest v2.10 btw.

Thanks!

Stabilization worked fune with viltrox lenses for me, maybe samyang hasnt figured their stuff out yet. Have you found any firmware updates to the lens.

Noracsa wrote:

OrigamiCactus wrote:

Stabilization worked fune with viltrox lenses for me, maybe samyang hasnt figured their stuff out yet. Have you found any firmware updates to the lens.

Thank you for replying and good to know that IBIS does work with third party lenses, or at least with viltrox.

Unfortunately there seems to be no new firmware for the Samyang AF 12mm 2.0, yet.

However, I'm not sure what Samyang could figure out to fix this. There shouldn't be much more to do then tell the body the focal length of 12mm. Which it does, as the focal length of 12mm shows up in the EXIF.

I hope this problem gets more attention as soon as more people start buying this lens.

If you unscrew the lens, so that the electronic contacts dont touch, and set the focal length manually to 12mm, does the stabilization still not work? Just asking, because then the lens should be equal to dumb mf lens, and stabe should work no matter what

Noracsa wrote:

good to know that IBIS does work with third party lenses, or at least with viltrox.

Nope, cannot confirm that. Also this is not what OrigamiCactus said. I quickly tried with the Viltrox 23 mm f/1.4 and it works. Question is to what extent.

Martin

Rightsaidfred wrote:

Noracsa wrote:

good to know that IBIS does work with third party lenses, or at least with viltrox.

Nope, cannot confirm that. Also this is not what OrigamiCactus said. I quickly tried with the Viltrox 23 mm f/1.4 and it works. Question is to what extent.

Martin

This is exactly what i said lol.

there is no reason for ibis to not work with 3rd party lenses, so voightlander, tamron, viltrox, zeiss, tokina they all work fine. Because the ibis only needs to know the focal length to function perfectly. Viltrox 13mm, 23,56,85,35 all work with ibis as they should.

But it seems that the Samyang misreports the focal length or something, i can also make ibis not work, while it is turned on, by writing 0mm as the focal length.

But reviewers don’t mention this, so maybe he got a faulty lens.

Noracsa wrote:

Hello everyone!

I've just bought the new Samyang AF 12mm 2.0 lens for my Fuji X-S10 camera. I've been using the MF version of that lens for quite some time.

Entering the focal lenght in the mount adaptor settings, I have been able to use the IBIS with the old MF lens. Thereby I could easily hand-hold shutter speeds of 1/2s and often even 1s, with images generally being tack sharp.

Really, that's a lot. Do you still own the MF version? Can you directly compare with the AF version?

Now with the new one, which automatically transmits its focal length of 12mm to the camera (checked the EXIF), IBIS doesn't seem to work, even though it's correctly turned on. I've tried both IS Modes: 1 and 2.

I have no chance of getting good sharpness with shutter speeds of 1/2s.

1/2 s is really a lot.

Even with 1/8s oder 1/15s the rate of blurry images is quite high. Turning IS off confirms this, as there is now difference in image sharpness between IS mode "off" and "1" or "2".

It's of course not easy to provoke the same shake for every photo. I recommend to shoot a few photos directly in a sequence. You probably did so.

Has anyone else had these problems? Is there a general problem of Fuji bodies not using IS with electronically connected third party lenses?

It seems odd, as the correct focal length is clearly transmitted, but the X-S10 just refuses to use the IS. Firmware is the newest v2.10 btw.

Thanks!

So as I just wrote in this thread that I quickly tried with my Viltrox 23 mm f/1.4, and IBIS does work. I simply compared a few handheld shots with IBIS ('shooting only') on and off, and the difference is clearly noticeable. What I do no know is to what extent IBIS works with the Viltrox lens.

Also with manual lenses that do not transmit Exif data, IBIS does work. Again, there is the question on the extent of camera shake mitigation.

Here comes my hypothesis.

1. In order to use the full potential of IBIS, the body needs to have information on the image circle of the respective lens. This is certainly given for any Fujifilm lens. Probably also with the Tokina AF lenses. Not sure about the Viltrox and Samyang AF lenses. Definitely not with manual lenses. My hypothesis is that the camera takes a conservative assumption in case there is no information on the image circle, i.e., IBIS will not play its full potential.
2. As per the Samyang AF lens, I don't own it. I would appreciate other users to try to confirm hat it really does not work at all. If IBIS does really not work at all, it was my first hypothesis that the lens wrongly delivers an "OIS switched off" information to the camera. But then the menu item should be grayed out. This is obviously not the case. So my hypothesis cannot be true. No idea, to be honest.

Feedback welcome.

Regards,

Martin

OrigamiCactus wrote:

Rightsaidfred wrote:

Noracsa wrote:

good to know that IBIS does work with third party lenses, or at least with viltrox.

Nope, cannot confirm that. Also this is not what OrigamiCactus said. I quickly tried with the Viltrox 23 mm f/1.4 and it works. Question is to what extent.

Martin

This is exactly what i said lol.

Yep.

there is no reason for ibis to not work with 3rd party lenses, so voightlander, tamron, viltrox, zeiss, tokina they all work fine. Because the ibis only needs to know the focal length to function perfectly. Viltrox 13mm, 23,56,85,35 all work with ibis as they should.

But it seems that the Samyang misreports the focal length or something, i can also make ibis not work, while it is turned on, by writing 0mm as the focal length.

fl reporting can be easily checked, just see the Exif data. I assume it's correctly reported. Otherwise reviewers and thousands of users would have complained and Samyang would have fixed it.

But reviewers don’t mention this, so maybe he got a faulty lens.

Maybe. Still, I'd like to ask other users to check whether IBIS really does not work at all with the Samyang lens. I do not see a reason why not. If not then it must be a software bug of a faulty copy or camera. As I already wrote, a question is whether IBIS uses the full potential of the Samyang lens, or if the camera takes a conservative assumption on the image circle of the lens.

Martin

Noracsa wrote:

Rightsaidfred wrote:

Noracsa wrote:

Hello everyone!

I've just bought the new Samyang AF 12mm 2.0 lens for my Fuji X-S10 camera. I've been using the MF version of that lens for quite some time.

Entering the focal lenght in the mount adaptor settings, I have been able to use the IBIS with the old MF lens. Thereby I could easily hand-hold shutter speeds of 1/2s and often even 1s, with images generally being tack sharp.

Really, that's a lot. Do you still own the MF version? Can you directly compare with the AF version?

Yes, I still own the MF version, so I did compare directly. The difference is absolutely clear with every 1/2s shot of the MF version being sharp and almost all AF version shots being blurred.

I've also just tested the AF version not being correctly mounted but rotated so that the electronic contacts don't work: The camera then uses the mount adaptor setting of 12mm and all images come out sharp.

Now with the new one, which automatically transmits its focal length of 12mm to the camera (checked the EXIF), IBIS doesn't seem to work, even though it's correctly turned on. I've tried both IS Modes: 1 and 2.

I have no chance of getting good sharpness with shutter speeds of 1/2s.

1/2 s is really a lot.

Well for a 12mm lens the classic formular would tranlate to a shutter speed of 1/18s. So 1/2 is a little bit over 3 stops of stabilization.

Fuji claims the X-S10 to have 5 stops of stabilization, so 1/2s seems reasonable at 12mm and, like I said, I get consistently sharp images a that speed unsing the MF version.

Even with 1/8s oder 1/15s the rate of blurry images is quite high. Turning IS off confirms this, as there is now difference in image sharpness between IS mode "off" and "1" or "2".

It's of course not easy to provoke the same shake for every photo. I recommend to shoot a few photos directly in a sequence. You probably did so.

Has anyone else had these problems? Is there a general problem of Fuji bodies not using IS with electronically connected third party lenses?

It seems odd, as the correct focal length is clearly transmitted, but the X-S10 just refuses to use the IS. Firmware is the newest v2.10 btw.

Thanks!

So as I just wrote in this thread that I quickly tried with my Viltrox 23 mm f/1.4, and IBIS does work. I simply compared a few handheld shots with IBIS ('shooting only') on and off, and the difference is clearly noticeable. What I do no know is to what extent IBIS works with the Viltrox lens.

Also with manual lenses that do not transmit Exif data, IBIS does work. Again, there is the question on the extent of camera shake mitigation.

Here comes my hypothesis.

1. In order to use the full potential of IBIS, the body needs to have information on the image circle of the respective lens. This is certainly given for any Fujifilm lens. Probably also with the Tokina AF lenses. Not sure about the Viltrox and Samyang AF lenses. Definitely not with manual lenses. My hypothesis is that the camera takes a conservative assumption in case there is no information on the image circle, i.e., IBIS will not play its full potential.
2. As per the Samyang AF lens, I don't own it. I would appreciate other users to try to confirm hat it really does not work at all. If IBIS does really not work at all, it was my first hypothesis that the lens wrongly delivers an "OIS switched off" information to the camera. But then the menu item should be grayed out. This is obviously not the case. So my hypothesis cannot be true. No idea, to be honest.

Thanks for confirming that it does work with your Viltrox lens.

Regarding your hypothesis 1: Since the IBIS works perectly fine with the MF version, there shouldn't be any problems with the image circle of the camera making a too conservative assumption.

Regarding your hypothesis 2: I think that could be the case. Some kind of lens information, telling the body not to use IBIS.

This could be a general bug on Samyangs side, then others should be able to confirm this.

Or it's just a bad copy on my side, which would be suprising, as such singular lens software differences are rather unlikely.

Maybe It's just a bug of my Fuji X-S10. However, the camera's IBIS works well with my Fuji 16mm 1.4.

So any feedback of other users of the Samyang AF 12mm would be very appreciated.

Clearly either Samyang screwed up the communications protocol to the camera, there is a lens F/W bug or the lens has a H/W issue.  If the camera will use IBIS with A/F lenses and with M/F lenses then the issue is with the lens. Return it.

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Clearly either Samyang screwed up the communications protocol to the camera, there is a lens F/W bug or the lens has a H/W issue. If the camera will use IBIS with A/F lenses and with M/F lenses then the issue is with the lens. Return it.

Same view. Nevertheless,

1. Issue with the copy? => Return.
2. Issue with the lens? => Should be possible to fix that with a firmware update. Are there no other owners of this lens here willing to give it a try?

In no-one responds, maybe contact Samyang before returning it?

Regards,

Martin

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Noracsa wrote:

Rightsaidfred wrote:

Noracsa wrote:

Hello everyone!

I've just bought the new Samyang AF 12mm 2.0 lens for my Fuji X-S10 camera. I've been using the MF version of that lens for quite some time.

Entering the focal lenght in the mount adaptor settings, I have been able to use the IBIS with the old MF lens. Thereby I could easily hand-hold shutter speeds of 1/2s and often even 1s, with images generally being tack sharp.

Really, that's a lot. Do you still own the MF version? Can you directly compare with the AF version?

Yes, I still own the MF version, so I did compare directly. The difference is absolutely clear with every 1/2s shot of the MF version being sharp and almost all AF version shots being blurred.

I've also just tested the AF version not being correctly mounted but rotated so that the electronic contacts don't work: The camera then uses the mount adaptor setting of 12mm and all images come out sharp.

Now with the new one, which automatically transmits its focal length of 12mm to the camera (checked the EXIF), IBIS doesn't seem to work, even though it's correctly turned on. I've tried both IS Modes: 1 and 2.

I have no chance of getting good sharpness with shutter speeds of 1/2s.

1/2 s is really a lot.

Well for a 12mm lens the classic formular would tranlate to a shutter speed of 1/18s. So 1/2 is a little bit over 3 stops of stabilization.

Fuji claims the X-S10 to have 5 stops of stabilization, so 1/2s seems reasonable at 12mm and, like I said, I get consistently sharp images a that speed unsing the MF version.

Even with 1/8s oder 1/15s the rate of blurry images is quite high. Turning IS off confirms this, as there is now difference in image sharpness between IS mode "off" and "1" or "2".

It's of course not easy to provoke the same shake for every photo. I recommend to shoot a few photos directly in a sequence. You probably did so.

Has anyone else had these problems? Is there a general problem of Fuji bodies not using IS with electronically connected third party lenses?

It seems odd, as the correct focal length is clearly transmitted, but the X-S10 just refuses to use the IS. Firmware is the newest v2.10 btw.

Thanks!

So as I just wrote in this thread that I quickly tried with my Viltrox 23 mm f/1.4, and IBIS does work. I simply compared a few handheld shots with IBIS ('shooting only') on and off, and the difference is clearly noticeable. What I do no know is to what extent IBIS works with the Viltrox lens.

Also with manual lenses that do not transmit Exif data, IBIS does work. Again, there is the question on the extent of camera shake mitigation.

Here comes my hypothesis.

1. In order to use the full potential of IBIS, the body needs to have information on the image circle of the respective lens. This is certainly given for any Fujifilm lens. Probably also with the Tokina AF lenses. Not sure about the Viltrox and Samyang AF lenses. Definitely not with manual lenses. My hypothesis is that the camera takes a conservative assumption in case there is no information on the image circle, i.e., IBIS will not play its full potential.
2. As per the Samyang AF lens, I don't own it. I would appreciate other users to try to confirm hat it really does not work at all. If IBIS does really not work at all, it was my first hypothesis that the lens wrongly delivers an "OIS switched off" information to the camera. But then the menu item should be grayed out. This is obviously not the case. So my hypothesis cannot be true. No idea, to be honest.

Thanks for confirming that it does work with your Viltrox lens.

Regarding your hypothesis 1: Since the IBIS works perectly fine with the MF version, there shouldn't be any problems with the image circle of the camera making a too conservative assumption.

Regarding your hypothesis 2: I think that could be the case. Some kind of lens information, telling the body not to use IBIS.

This could be a general bug on Samyangs side, then others should be able to confirm this.

Or it's just a bad copy on my side, which would be suprising, as such singular lens software differences are rather unlikely.

Maybe It's just a bug of my Fuji X-S10. However, the camera's IBIS works well with my Fuji 16mm 1.4.

So any feedback of other users of the Samyang AF 12mm would be very appreciated.

Clearly either Samyang screwed up the communications protocol to the camera, there is a lens F/W bug or the lens has a H/W issue. If the camera will use IBIS with A/F lenses and with M/F lenses then the issue is with the lens. Return it.

What Truman said, but before doing so, I’d love to see some 1/2 and 1 second images that are tack sharp. It would enlighten me to the IBIS capabilities of the X-S10.

lewiedude2 wrote:

What Truman said, but before doing so, I’d love to see some 1/2 and 1 second images that are tack sharp. It would enlighten me to the IBIS capabilities of the X-S10.

Is it really as simple that IBIS does prolong by x f-stops (relative gain), or is there also an 'absolute' limit?

A shaky person will need a shorter ss w/o stabilization as well as with stabilization activated. But is it really a parallel shift in the gain of stabilization? Is a gain of 4 stops starting from 1/500 s ending up at 1/30 s technically the same challenge for the IBIS as a gain of 4 stops starting from 1/60 s ending up at 1/2 s?

Interestingly, there is article that states that Earth’s Rotation Limits IBIS Performance to 6.3 Stops.

Regards,

Martin

Noracsa wrote:

JanisGeo wrote:

Hello everyone,

I just registered here because I also encountered this issue.

I also bought the new Samyang 12mm 2.0 AF and I also borrowed MF version for comparison needs and I though AF version was superior until I found this thread. I just tested both lenses on X-S10 with a shutter speed of 1/2s. I tried to take shoots with the same physical settings. Here are the sample shots, cropped 100% from the central part of images:

Shutter speed 1/2s, handhled

Left - AF version, middle - AF version rotated to disconnect pins, right - MF version

I can confirm that apparently IBIS is not properly working on AF version, while it works really nice on MF version. Also, AF version rotated to disconnect pins also works much better than connected AF lens.

Janis

Thank you very much for confirming that it's not just one bad copy, but apparently a bigger problem.

Yesterday, I've contacted Samyang and already received a reply:

Dear Customer

Hello.

Thank you for your inquiry mail.

We are going to check about your issue and if there is problem, We will solve this problem through the firmware update.

But, It needs time for confiming the issue and improvement the software.

Therefore, We will notify through the our web-page when we complete the develop new firmware soon.

If you need any other things, Please let us know.

Thank you very much!

Best Regards

I hope, they can confirm that it's an issue solveable via firmware update.

Now you can tell them that a second Owner of the AF Samyang has the same problem like you. A second owner reporting exactly the same problem  as yours makes pretty  sure that Samyang has just delivered buggy firmware. 
Cheers