getting back to m4/3 - used, light and cheap

In other threads on here, Guy Parson (Past Master Grand Poobah and Exalted High Potentate of the Olympus PL-1) and others have painstaking compared image quality of Olympus cameras.

Yes, RAW is best. You have more file to work with.

But as to JPEG, it’s impossible to see the difference between any of the settings on a well exposed image.

The Large Super Fine gives more file to edit.

But although storage space is cheap and getting cheaper, if you send your images to others then file size does matter.

But I am but the disciple, and Guy Parson the master.

Spend some time, and read the Olympus Pages of Guy Parson.

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/photo/index.html

On the menus. First off, I would suggest not trying to replicate what you used with your Canon . I have had Olympus setup sessions with about 15 of my club members that used to shoot Canon, and everyone that decide to “preset” their Olympus to the way they had their Canon DSLR set, ended doing a complete reset and starting over.

Next, seek out the minimum menu changes you can get by with and ignore anything else.

gary0319 wrote:

On the menus. First off, I would suggest not trying to replicate what you used with your Canon . I have had Olympus setup sessions with about 15 of my club members that used to shoot Canon, and everyone that decide to “preset” their Olympus to the way they had their Canon DSLR set, ended doing a complete reset and starting over.

Next, seek out the minimum menu changes you can get by with and ignore anything else.

When my M5 II came back from Olympus service as a replacement refurbished camera (it failed to recognize a lens) I did an experiment.

It was a new camera, only 350 clicks (they did that testing it)

It came set to automatic.  I used it that way.

It worked surprisingly well.

Then I turned to Program.  It had all points autofocus.  I prefer single center point, so I changed that.

Then eventually I reset the high limit ISO to 3200 instead of 1600.

I dedicated a button to the digital teleconverter.

I think I’ve turned off Keep Warm Colors, I can’t remember.

Eventually I dug up Super Fine and added it to the menu,,,,well,,,,just because it’s there.

You’ll hear complaints about the complication of Olympus menus.  If not the most customizable and adjustable camera on the planet it’s an extremely complicated gizmo if you like to adjust things.

But in an Olympus camera you get the best of both worlds:

A gear lover or professional has nearly unlimited, literally thousands, of custom adjustments,,,,

And people like me that love photography have a useful gadget sticking in a card and a battery.

Try what Olympus recommends.

Then change as you feel a need.

PS  Your M10.2 is an awesome video camera.

patticake wrote:

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

As I recall, the pl7 is an em10.ii in alternate form factor.

jimrpdx wrote:

patticake wrote:

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

As I recall, the pl7 is an em10.ii in alternate form factor.

the E-PL7 has 3 axis stabilization while theE-M10 ii has 5 axis. you could say it's an alternate form, but it's very alternate. i prefer 2 or 3 dials, while the e-pl7 has only one. and those are the two reasons i went with the E-M10 ii over the very lightweight E-PL7.

Humansvillian wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

On the menus. First off, I would suggest not trying to replicate what you used with your Canon . I have had Olympus setup sessions with about 15 of my club members that used to shoot Canon, and everyone that decide to “preset” their Olympus to the way they had their Canon DSLR set, ended doing a complete reset and starting over.

Next, seek out the minimum menu changes you can get by with and ignore anything else.

When my M5 II came back from Olympus service as a replacement refurbished camera (it failed to recognize a lens) I did an experiment.

It was a new camera, only 350 clicks (they did that testing it)

It came set to automatic. I used it that way.

It worked surprisingly well.

Then I turned to Program. It had all points autofocus. I prefer single center point, so I changed that.

Then eventually I reset the high limit ISO to 3200 instead of 1600.

I dedicated a button to the digital teleconverter.

I think I’ve turned off Keep Warm Colors, I can’t remember.

Eventually I dug up Super Fine and added it to the menu,,,,well,,,,just because it’s there.

You’ll hear complaints about the complication of Olympus menus. If not the most customizable and adjustable camera on the planet it’s an extremely complicated gizmo if you like to adjust things.

But in an Olympus camera you get the best of both worlds:

A gear lover or professional has nearly unlimited, literally thousands, of custom adjustments,,,,

And people like me that love photography have a useful gadget sticking in a card and a battery.

Try what Olympus recommends.

Then change as you feel a need.

PS Your M10.2 is an awesome video camera.

right after shooting a couple pics in P to check 'em out, my plan is first to do a factory reset, then to turn on the SCP, set to fine or super fine + raw, make sure warm colors is off, change to single point autofocus, change metering to suit what i'll be shooting first - probably spot, but i'll try 'em all. i'll experiment with max ISO in both 1600 - what i usually use - and 3200.  make sure stabilization is on.

then i'll probably change a button or two to suit my preferences.

right after the camera arrives, i'll probably watch this video with the camera in my hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJGQg7ug_80

i can't wait!

patticake wrote:

Humansvillian wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

On the menus. First off, I would suggest not trying to replicate what you used with your Canon . I have had Olympus setup sessions with about 15 of my club members that used to shoot Canon, and everyone that decide to “preset” their Olympus to the way they had their Canon DSLR set, ended doing a complete reset and starting over.

Next, seek out the minimum menu changes you can get by with and ignore anything else.

When my M5 II came back from Olympus service as a replacement refurbished camera (it failed to recognize a lens) I did an experiment.

It was a new camera, only 350 clicks (they did that testing it)

It came set to automatic. I used it that way.

It worked surprisingly well.

Then I turned to Program. It had all points autofocus. I prefer single center point, so I changed that.

Then eventually I reset the high limit ISO to 3200 instead of 1600.

I dedicated a button to the digital teleconverter.

I think I’ve turned off Keep Warm Colors, I can’t remember.

Eventually I dug up Super Fine and added it to the menu,,,,well,,,,just because it’s there.

You’ll hear complaints about the complication of Olympus menus. If not the most customizable and adjustable camera on the planet it’s an extremely complicated gizmo if you like to adjust things.

But in an Olympus camera you get the best of both worlds:

A gear lover or professional has nearly unlimited, literally thousands, of custom adjustments,,,,

And people like me that love photography have a useful gadget sticking in a card and a battery.

Try what Olympus recommends.

Then change as you feel a need.

PS Your M10.2 is an awesome video camera.

right after shooting a couple pics in P to check 'em out, my plan is first to do a factory reset, then to turn on the SCP, set to fine or super fine + raw, make sure warm colors is off, change to single point autofocus, change metering to suit what i'll be shooting first - probably spot, but i'll try 'em all. i'll experiment with max ISO in both 1600 - what i usually use - and 3200. make sure stabilization is on.

then i'll probably change a button or two to suit my preferences.

right after the camera arrives, i'll probably watch this video with the camera in my hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJGQg7ug_80

i can't wait!

One extremely useful Olympus feature hidden in the menu on the M10.2 is the Super Control Panel. What this does is make a wide choice of custom options available on the live view at the press of a button.

https://youtu.be/MPaXtmfzaDE

And while you are wearing the new off your gadget, don’t neglect setting up two Olympus downloads to your smart phone.

The first is OI Share. This app allows you to download photos and videos through WiFi (I use a cheap dongle, much faster) but even cooler is you get a fully optioned remote control on your phone.

https://youtu.be/3hIxX32WmgA

The second app you want to download is OI Track, which is a clever GPS tracker that when you sync the time it sets the exact second on your camera, and then however long it’s running, when you download those photos into your phone they are geotagged.

https://youtu.be/2DfX9Lb-1gk

These things are more fun than any toy Santa ever put under your tree.

Humansvillian wrote:

One extremely useful Olympus feature hidden in the menu on the M10.2 is the Super Control Panel. What this does is make a wide choice of custom options available on the live view at the press of a button.

https://youtu.be/MPaXtmfzaDE

And while you are wearing the new off your gadget, don’t neglect setting up two Olympus downloads to your smart phone.

The first is OI Share. This app allows you to download photos and videos through WiFi (I use a cheap dongle, much faster) but even cooler is you get a fully optioned remote control on your phone.

https://youtu.be/3hIxX32WmgA

The second app you want to download is OI Track, which is a clever GPS tracker that when you sync the time it sets the exact second on your camera, and then however long it’s running, when you download those photos into your phone they are geotagged.

https://youtu.be/2DfX9Lb-1gk

These things are more fun than any toy Santa ever put under your tree.

super control panel? as i said in my post " then to turn on the SCP".  it's high on my list as it seems to be packed with options.

i don't really want to download pics to my phone, but i definitely want to use remote control, so i'll be sure to download that.

never wanted to geotag, so this one's not for me.

i don't expect to see the camera within the next two weeks, and to be honest, i'm used to more immediate gratification.  i'm excited - funny when you consider how many cameras i've owned.  i'll spend the time using my old canon G15 and considering which lenses to buy after the two i've ordered.  well, and after the 45-150 zoom and a macro lens or a fast manual prime LOLOLOL

or maybe i'll rent something...  good ol' lensrentals

patticake wrote:

Humansvillian wrote:

One extremely useful Olympus feature hidden in the menu on the M10.2 is the Super Control Panel. What this does is make a wide choice of custom options available on the live view at the press of a button.

https://youtu.be/MPaXtmfzaDE

And while you are wearing the new off your gadget, don’t neglect setting up two Olympus downloads to your smart phone.

The first is OI Share. This app allows you to download photos and videos through WiFi (I use a cheap dongle, much faster) but even cooler is you get a fully optioned remote control on your phone.

https://youtu.be/3hIxX32WmgA

The second app you want to download is OI Track, which is a clever GPS tracker that when you sync the time it sets the exact second on your camera, and then however long it’s running, when you download those photos into your phone they are geotagged.

https://youtu.be/2DfX9Lb-1gk

These things are more fun than any toy Santa ever put under your tree.

super control panel? as i said in my post " then to turn on the SCP". it's high on my list as it seems to be packed with options.

i don't really want to download pics to my phone, but i definitely want to use remote control, so i'll be sure to download that.

never wanted to geotag, so this one's not for me.

i don't expect to see the camera within the next two weeks, and to be honest, i'm used to more immediate gratification. i'm excited - funny when you consider how many cameras i've owned. i'll spend the time using my old canon G15 and considering which lenses to buy after the two i've ordered. well, and after the 45-150 zoom and a macro lens or a fast manual prime LOLOLOL

or maybe i'll rent something... good ol' lensrentals

The day your M10.2 was new, it cost more than whatever Canon and Nikon charged for their extremely capable entry level DSLRs. Those cameras offered bigger sensors and more megapixels.

Why did somebody pay an extra $200 or so for your kit?

Other than the fact Olympus cameras are actually cultish, and you need one to join the cult, it’s because they are much smaller (not necessarily much lighter) than a wanna be big professional camera.

There are something like 200 different MFT native lenses available. There are a ridiculous number to chose from.

But this one, the first version Lumix f1.7 20mm pancake is probably THE reason the MFT cult exists. Sharp, fast, cheap and incredibly small. It’s noisy for video and fast but not as fast to focus as newer lenses. Mine cost $125. It’s not for sale, buy your own, I’m keeping mine.

You’ll want a kit lens. I recommend this one, because it replaces both the 14-42 kit and 40-150 tele. The 14-150 II is splash  proof, sharp, small, light and only $250 used.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-m-Zuiko-ED-14-150mm-f-4-0-5-6-II-Wide-Angle-to-Telephoto-Lens-Black-/275050987178?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

But if I only had one lens, that one would be the Panny f1.7 pancake.

Another thing that I find indispensable is to download the latest version of the Olympus Workspace software for two reasons.

First the Workspace raw conversion algorithm is much cleaner than the conversions done by Adobe Camera Raw (since I use Lightroom for post processing). Workspace is free but you need an Olympus camera serial number to download it.

Secondly, Workspace includes all the specialty camera settings for incamera JPEG processing. This means you can apply all the JPEG centric camera settings to your raw conversions. This will exactly replicate the incamera filters, contrast, noise reduction etc.

Here’s a comparison of the raw conversion using Adobe Camera Raw and Workspace … note the “paisley” artifacts created by ACR.

Adobe Camera Raw

Workspace

The last years I have been using the Panasonic GX7 and GX8 and the EM5ii with the 2.8/12-40, 2.8/40-150, 4-5.6/40-150, 4/12-100 and 1.7/20
While I agree with humansvillian in his praises of the EM5ii, he omits AF - and this is the reason I won't try another Olympus body without PDAF, which might be different.
The Panasonic bodies work perfectly with the above mentioned Olympus lenses and AF is faster and more precise than with the EM5ii. This applies to portraits, but even more so to plants (trees, grass, flowers).

A GX7 is around 200 € like the EPL7 here, I got the GX8 for 300 3 years ago, the EM5ii is around 350.

however bear in mind, the Achilles heel of the Panasonic bodies are the thumb wheels, so I would only buy if you can return it. BQ of the EM5ii is better.

Peter

eques wrote:

The last years I have been using the Panasonic GX7 and GX8 and the EM5ii with the 2.8/12-40, 2.8/40-150, 4-5.6/40-150, 4/12-100 and 1.7/20
While I agree with humansvillian in his praises of the EM5ii, he omits AF - and this is the reason I won't try another Olympus body without PDAF, which might be different.
The Panasonic bodies work perfectly with the above mentioned Olympus lenses and AF is faster and more precise than with the EM5ii. This applies to portraits, but even more so to plants (trees, grass, flowers).

A GX7 is around 200 € like the EPL7 here, I got the GX8 for 300 3 years ago, the EM5ii is around 350.

however bear in mind, the Achilles heel of the Panasonic bodies are the thumb wheels, so I would only buy if you can return it. BQ of the EM5ii is better.

Peter

i already ordered an E-M10 ii.

while i'm not crazy about the thumb wheel, i used it for years on my 2 G3s with no real issues.   i admit i didn't love to have to push the wheel in to adjust exposure compensation, and the EVF made me dizzy and gave me a headache when tracking birds for a period of time.  it's hard to believe panasonic hasn't done much to improve their EVFs.

eques wrote:

The last years I have been using the Panasonic GX7 and GX8 and the EM5ii with the 2.8/12-40, 2.8/40-150, 4-5.6/40-150, 4/12-100 and 1.7/20
While I agree with humansvillian in his praises of the EM5ii, he omits AF - and this is the reason I won't try another Olympus body without PDAF, which might be different.
The Panasonic bodies work perfectly with the above mentioned Olympus lenses and AF is faster and more precise than with the EM5ii. This applies to portraits, but even more so to plants (trees, grass, flowers).

A GX7 is around 200 € like the EPL7 here, I got the GX8 for 300 3 years ago, the EM5ii is around 350.

however bear in mind, the Achilles heel of the Panasonic bodies are the thumb wheels, so I would only buy if you can return it. BQ of the EM5ii is better.

Peter

First, understand that MFT cameras are an addiction. You have a sensor inside a box that duplicates or exceeds the performance the best 35 film ever made, and you accumulate all these tiny lenses for your camera.

I don’t understand all the technical reasons why, but the 2004 Rebel XT I gave to my daughter beats the hell out of any Olympus camera I own for continuous autofocus and my Canon T5i just destroy them.

My solution for better autofocus is a used $150 Canon 55-250mm STM lens for my Canon T5i.

PDAF is better. For almost ten years now, the Olympus pricing plan is

For $600 you get a rangefinder styled body with no EVF, no PDAF. Pay nearly double that and you get a P-5, Pen F, or now a P7.

Add another $100 and you get the latest M-10. It has a viewfinder. No PDAF.

For a thousand bucks you get a super deluxe M10, the M5. It’s a fancier toy. The last one has PDAF, but unfortunately lost its magnesium body.

The king Olympus is the $1,500 M1. You get PDAF and all the bells and whistles.

And if you want even more there’s a monster M1X with dial battery grips and dial processors and it knows if you are focusing on a car, plane, or person.

I’ve been buying new computers for nearly 40 years. After five years or so, I replace them and the old one is only good to donate to the local school. They aren’t really all that much better since about 1995, but they grow obsolete.

This is an iPhone 10. I saw an iPhone 12 the other day. My thousand dolllar iPhone is bound for trade in and not too long in the future.

The OP has a $250 M10.2, and I’ve got a $350 M5.2.

Neither have PDAF. If you want that cheap, buy a used M1, only $300.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31124-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Digital-Camera-Black-Body-w-HLD-7-grip-17mm-lens-bag-/194673171208?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
A used M1.2 is about $600.

Why would you risk saving a hundred or two buying  a used M5.3 or used M1.3?  You’d lose the warranty and the new camera unboxing smell and no little packages of silica gel that say DO NOT EAT.

What Olympus is doing, and rather successfully, is encouraging customers who can afford it to pay a thousand or fifteen hundred for new toys if they really want PDAF.

But if you just want a little box to mount your lenses, the M10.2 is really just as good as any.  And I doubt it will depreciate much until it just rolls over dead.

patticake wrote

right after shooting a couple pics in P to check 'em out, my plan is first to do a factory reset, then to turn on the SCP, set to fine or super fine + raw, make sure warm colors is off, change to single point autofocus, change metering to suit what i'll be shooting first - probably spot, but i'll try 'em all. i'll experiment with max ISO in both 1600 - what i usually use - and 3200. make sure stabilization is on.

then i'll probably change a button or two to suit my preferences.

right after the camera arrives, i'll probably watch this video with the camera in my hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJGQg7ug_80

i can't wait!

-- hide signature --

my old user profile
http://www.dpreview.com/members/1742491492/overview

Excellent plan. I personally prefer Super Fine as well... Squeeze out as much available detail as possible. And like you I prefer spot metering

Good point... I'd recommend either /both the Olympus 45 1.8 and /or the Panasonic 25 1.7

patticake wrote:

it's hard to believe panasonic hasn't done much to improve their EVFs.

I cannot find fault with the EVF in my G9. Beats both that in my E-M10ii and that in my E-M1ii. And the E-M1ii was more expensive used than the G9.

The GX8 and G9 certainly have very nice EVFs, better perhaps than even the EM1.3 from what I read, but these top tiers bodes are not the cameras the OP is looking at.

Peter

Humansvillian wrote:

eques wrote:

The last years I have been using the Panasonic GX7 and GX8 and the EM5ii with the 2.8/12-40, 2.8/40-150, 4-5.6/40-150, 4/12-100 and 1.7/20
While I agree with humansvillian in his praises of the EM5ii, he omits AF - and this is the reason I won't try another Olympus body without PDAF, which might be different.
The Panasonic bodies work perfectly with the above mentioned Olympus lenses and AF is faster and more precise than with the EM5ii. This applies to portraits, but even more so to plants (trees, grass, flowers).

A GX7 is around 200 € like the EPL7 here, I got the GX8 for 300 3 years ago, the EM5ii is around 350.

however bear in mind, the Achilles heel of the Panasonic bodies are the thumb wheels, so I would only buy if you can return it. BQ of the EM5ii is better.

Peter

First, understand that MFT cameras are an addiction. You have a sensor inside a box that duplicates or exceeds the performance the best 35 film ever made, and you accumulate all these tiny lenses for your camera.

I don’t understand all the technical reasons why, but the 2004 Rebel XT I gave to my daughter beats the hell out of any Olympus camera I own for continuous autofocus and my Canon T5i just destroy them.

My solution for better autofocus is a used $150 Canon 55-250mm STM lens for my Canon T5i.

This picture is not helpful to make your point. It might be in focus, but it is not sharp and  noisy.

But I agree with the following!

PDAF is better. For almost ten years now, the Olympus pricing plan is

For $600 you get a rangefinder styled body with no EVF, no PDAF. Pay nearly double that and you get a P-5, Pen F, or now a P7.

Add another $100 and you get the latest M-10. It has a viewfinder. No PDAF.

For a thousand bucks you get a super deluxe M10, the M5. It’s a fancier toy. The last one has PDAF, but unfortunately lost its magnesium body.

The king Olympus is the $1,500 M1. You get PDAF and all the bells and whistles.

And if you want even more there’s a monster M1X with dial battery grips and dial processors and it knows if you are focusing on a car, plane, or person.

I’ve been buying new computers for nearly 40 years. After five years or so, I replace them and the old one is only good to donate to the local school. They aren’t really all that much better since about 1995, but they grow obsolete.

This is an iPhone 10. I saw an iPhone 12 the other day. My thousand dolllar iPhone is bound for trade in and not too long in the future.

The OP has a $250 M10.2, and I’ve got a $350 M5.2.

Neither have PDAF. If you want that cheap, buy a used M1, only $300.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31124-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Digital-Camera-Black-Body-w-HLD-7-grip-17mm-lens-bag-/194673171208?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
A used M1.2 is about $600.

Why would you risk saving a hundred or two buying a used M5.3 or used M1.3? You’d lose the warranty and the new camera unboxing smell and no little packages of silica gel that say DO NOT EAT.

What Olympus is doing, and rather successfully, is encouraging customers who can afford it to pay a thousand or fifteen hundred for new toys if they really want PDAF.

But if you just want a little box to mount your lenses, the M10.2 is really just as good as any. And I doubt it will depreciate much until it just rolls over dead.

I am curious to see if OM DIgital Solutions is going to change their position on PDAF. For many years some claimed that PDAF would not make it to the E-M5 line. I would like them to standardize on PDAF in all cameras and they will probably have to at some point.

For now, the other, more affordable, option is a used E-M1 Mark II. That creates a range of options:

Used E-M1 - $250

Used E-M1.2 - $600

Used E-M5.3 - $750

New E-M5.3 - $1,000

Used E-m1.3 - $1,200

Used E-MX - $1,300

New E-M1.3 - $1,500

New E-MX - $1,700

I got a used e-pl7 in order to replace my e-pm2 for mountain biking trips. Since my e-pm2's D-pad wheel has started acting erratically making the camera annoying to use.

So since you're familiar with e-pm2 I can tell you e-pl7 is not that much larger and it's much nicer to use. I shoot in Aperture Priority 9/10 times and I have the two back buttons assigned to ISO and Exp. Comp.

e-pl7 for under $200 (which is how much I've gotten mine for) is a great deal. It's my "beater camera".

Here are the two cameras side by side:

Image quality is the same between the two cameras, e-pl7 has a couple of advantages. Most notably: Noticeably better IBIS, Flippy Screen, and better controls.