getting back to m4/3 - used, light and cheap

patticake wrote:

years ago, i bought a panasonic GF1, and i enjoyed it for years. needs changed, and over time i owned an E-PL1 briefly, a E-PM2 and finally 2 G3's before changing to a sony A6000, which i loved, and finally back to small canon DLSRs (my current camera is a 77d).

i have wrist and shoulder damage, so i thought it would be best to find a lighter camera that has lighter lenses available. also i rented an LX100 ii, and while i didn't love everything about the camera, i did love the images. i didn't find it versatile enough when it came to reach, so here i am.

I was looking at an Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV, but while it's darn light, i'm not ready to invest much yet. so i was considering an E-PL7 to play with even though it hasn't got a second dial, which i prefer. an option might be a Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.

i shoot at a lot of focal lengths, and i also shoot closeups, macros and still lifes (lives?) in lower light. while i also shoot BIF, i'm not ready to spend enough on something with better autofocus yet...

with this future m4/3 camera, i want -
IBIS
touch focusing
flip screen
raw processing would be a plus but not a must

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

You might want to take a look for Lumix GX85.

It already has IBIS, EVF, touch screen, flip screen (half only), and support Dual IS with certain Lumix lens.

Lumix GX9 should be better, with Dual IS2 and newest sensor, but I think the price point is still much higher than GX85.

Pair Lumix GX85 with Lumix 14-140 ii lens is giving you balance gear, Dual IS, and wide - tele photos. For daily usage, these combo is really great, especially in daylight photos.

gary0319 wrote:

I first bought the PL7 and really liked the camera in all respects, except….. no EVF. I didn’t consider (no experience) that shooting without an EVF in our bright Florida sun would become a major difficulty. In addition to the great images, I particularly liked the on off switch on the right side that allows for quick one hand operation.

So, I sold the PL7 and bought the E-M10 II. To my recollection, the 10.2 is in all respects a PL7 with the addition of the missing EVF. The E-M10 II remained my go to small kit travel camera for many years, until being recently replaced by the E-M10 IV. Paired with the very versatile 14-150, a Rokinon 7.5 fisheye, and sometimes the 12-40 f/2.8, I never felt shortchanged by the E-M10 II. I traveled a lot with it and never had a lick of trouble, my brother still uses it.

A few examples with the E-M10 II….

thanks!  that's a good selection of pics to show off what the camera can do.

how do the EM10 ii and the EM10 iv compare?  i like to have manual controls - white balance among them.  and how do you feel the image quality has changed between the two cameras?   anything else that stands out as a big step up or down?

btw, were those pics shot as jpgs or shot raw and processed?

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

I first bought the PL7 and really liked the camera in all respects, except….. no EVF. I didn’t consider (no experience) that shooting without an EVF in our bright Florida sun would become a major difficulty. In addition to the great images, I particularly liked the on off switch on the right side that allows for quick one hand operation.

So, I sold the PL7 and bought the E-M10 II. To my recollection, the 10.2 is in all respects a PL7 with the addition of the missing EVF. The E-M10 II remained my go to small kit travel camera for many years, until being recently replaced by the E-M10 IV. Paired with the very versatile 14-150, a Rokinon 7.5 fisheye, and sometimes the 12-40 f/2.8, I never felt shortchanged by the E-M10 II. I traveled a lot with it and never had a lick of trouble, my brother still uses it.

A few examples with the E-M10 II….

thanks! that's a good selection of pics to show off what the camera can do.

how do the EM10 ii and the EM10 iv compare? i like to have manual controls - white balance among them. and how do you feel the image quality has changed between the two cameras? anything else that stands out as a big step up or down?

E-M 10 has full manual controls, including the white balance.

The E-M10 IV is a big step up in all respects. Newer 20 mpx sensor instead of the 16mpx. More powerful processor makes Continuous AF way better, better image stabilization, ISO 1000 is virtually noise free. It's just a better camera all the way around.........but it's also more than twice the price of a god used or refurbished E-M10 II, which is still a dandy camera. Just more recent technology in the mark IV.

If you can spend the money, go for the E-M10 IV. But if looking for a toe-dipper, you can't go wrong with the !0.2.

thank you all!

i'm going to be ordering an E-M10 ii.  i checked out some other cameras, but ultimately it sounds like the M10 ii delivers the most of what i need right now.

patticake wrote:

btw, were those pics shot as jpgs or shot raw and processed?

I shoot Large Super Fine JPEG + Raw, and use whichever one I think will give the best image vs amount of PP effort. I have no recollection on these, sorry

One of the great things about Olympus is the ability to set one of the fn buttons for "one touch WB". Basically, hit the fn button, point the camera to a Grey card and press the shutter button. Custom WB set! 
Other manufacturers may also have this feature. I don't know.

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

btw, were those pics shot as jpgs or shot raw and processed?

I shoot Large Super Fine JPEG + Raw, and use whichever one I think will give the best image vs amount of PP effort. I have no recollection on these, sorry

that's how i shoot, too

shinndigg wrote:

One of the great things about Olympus is the ability to set one of the fn buttons for "one touch WB". Basically, hit the fn button, point the camera to a Grey card and press the shutter button. Custom WB set!
Other manufacturers may also have this feature. I don't know.

canon usually hides this feature in a menu, and on the older canons, i remember it was a very counter-intuitive menu.  i like the idea that on olympus it's simple.

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

btw, were those pics shot as jpgs or shot raw and processed?

I shoot Large Super Fine JPEG + Raw, and use whichever one I think will give the best image vs amount of PP effort. I have no recollection on these, sorry

that's how i shoot, too

I don't recall if the E-M10 II has the LSF JPEG as a default setting, you may have to enable the LSF in the menu (one time change).

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

btw, were those pics shot as jpgs or shot raw and processed?

I shoot Large Super Fine JPEG + Raw, and use whichever one I think will give the best image vs amount of PP effort. I have no recollection on these, sorry

that's how i shoot, too

I don't recall if the E-M10 II has the LSF JPEG as a default setting, you may have to enable the LSF in the menu (one time change).

LSF?

with any camera, i generally change a few settings before using it.

question - if i use only olympus lenses, would i need to set focal length to use stabilization or is setting focal length only for non-native lenses?

I would be interested is selling off my Oly Em5 III if that interests you and we could come to an agreement on pricing.

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

btw, were those pics shot as jpgs or shot raw and processed?

I shoot Large Super Fine JPEG + Raw, and use whichever one I think will give the best image vs amount of PP effort. I have no recollection on these, sorry

that's how i shoot, too

I don't recall if the E-M10 II has the LSF JPEG as a default setting, you may have to enable the LSF in the menu (one time change).

LSF?

with any camera, i generally change a few settings before using it.

question - if i use only olympus lenses, would i need to set focal length to use stabilization or is setting focal length only for non-native lenses?

LSF is the Olympus Large SuperFine JPEG setting. This setting has a lower compression ratio than the Large Fine (2.7/1 vas 4/1) which IMO equates to more detail in the image. Others will, I'm sure, retort that there is no difference between Large Fine and SuperFine.....and then go on to extol how they only shot raw. In my experience the LSF gives me at least some additional latitude for post processing adjustment.

If you use any native Olympus or Panasonic lenses, you do not have to set the focal length for IS on an Olympus camera.

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

LSF?

with any camera, i generally change a few settings before using it.

question - if i use only olympus lenses, would i need to set focal length to use stabilization or is setting focal length only for non-native lenses?

LSF is the Olympus Large SuperFine JPEG setting. This setting has a lower compression ratio than the Large Fine (2.7/1 vas 4/1) which IMO equates to more detail in the image. Others will, I'm sure, retort that there is no difference between Large Fine and SuperFine.....and then go on to extol how they only shot raw. In my experience the LSF gives me at least some additional latitude for post processing adjustment.

If you use any native Olympus or Panasonic lenses, you do not have to set the focal length for IS on an Olympus camera.

i always shoot the highest quality possible, and if there's less data, i believe there's less detail.

thanks.  that's good to know!

i'm sending my canon setup off to mpb for a trade for an E-M10 ii and a couple lenses.

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

LSF?

with any camera, i generally change a few settings before using it.

question - if i use only olympus lenses, would i need to set focal length to use stabilization or is setting focal length only for non-native lenses?

LSF is the Olympus Large SuperFine JPEG setting. This setting has a lower compression ratio than the Large Fine (2.7/1 vas 4/1) which IMO equates to more detail in the image. Others will, I'm sure, retort that there is no difference between Large Fine and SuperFine.....and then go on to extol how they only shot raw. In my experience the LSF gives me at least some additional latitude for post processing adjustment.

If you use any native Olympus or Panasonic lenses, you do not have to set the focal length for IS on an Olympus camera.

i always shoot the highest quality possible, and if there's less data, i believe there's less detail.

thanks. that's good to know!

i'm sending my canon setup off to mpb for a trade for an E-M10 ii and a couple lenses.

Good move, MPB is my go to for trades.

Dann-Oh wrote:

I would be interested is selling off my Oly Em5 III if that interests you and we could come to an agreement on pricing.

I already own an E-M5 III, sorry.

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

LSF?

with any camera, i generally change a few settings before using it.

question - if i use only olympus lenses, would i need to set focal length to use stabilization or is setting focal length only for non-native lenses?

LSF is the Olympus Large SuperFine JPEG setting. This setting has a lower compression ratio than the Large Fine (2.7/1 vas 4/1) which IMO equates to more detail in the image. Others will, I'm sure, retort that there is no difference between Large Fine and SuperFine.....and then go on to extol how they only shot raw. In my experience the LSF gives me at least some additional latitude for post processing adjustment.

If you use any native Olympus or Panasonic lenses, you do not have to set the focal length for IS on an Olympus camera.

i always shoot the highest quality possible, and if there's less data, i believe there's less detail.

thanks. that's good to know!

i'm sending my canon setup off to mpb for a trade for an E-M10 ii and a couple lenses.

Good move, MPB is my go to for trades.

good to know - previously i sold all my cameras on craigslist, and this is my first trade with MPB.

my old user profile
http://www.dpreview.com/members/1742491492/overview

A lot less stress than CL or eBay

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

LSF?

with any camera, i generally change a few settings before using it.

question - if i use only olympus lenses, would i need to set focal length to use stabilization or is setting focal length only for non-native lenses?

LSF is the Olympus Large SuperFine JPEG setting. This setting has a lower compression ratio than the Large Fine (2.7/1 vas 4/1) which IMO equates to more detail in the image. Others will, I'm sure, retort that there is no difference between Large Fine and SuperFine.....and then go on to extol how they only shot raw. In my experience the LSF gives me at least some additional latitude for post processing adjustment.

If you use any native Olympus or Panasonic lenses, you do not have to set the focal length for IS on an Olympus camera.

i always shoot the highest quality possible, and if there's less data, i believe there's less detail.

thanks. that's good to know!

i'm sending my canon setup off to mpb for a trade for an E-M10 ii and a couple lenses.

Good move, MPB is my go to for trades.

good to know - previously i sold all my cameras on craigslist, and this is my first trade with MPB.

my old user profile
http://www.dpreview.com/members/1742491492/overview

Your M10.2 will come with these settings for compression

RAW—plus you can add, or shoot alone, these JPEG settings

Super Fine (hidden deep in menu, you must activate)

Fine

Normal

Basic

The best is RAW plus Super Fine JPEG

And you’ll produce about 25 mb files.

Why Olympus hides Super Fine is Basic is probably good enough and Normal compression is absolutely adequate for all reasonable hobby use.

I shot 60 frames this morning and averaged about 3mb per frame, or les than 200mb

In good light your Olympus will nail focus, exposure, white balance, and there’s not much gained by making huge files.

The Olympus is  far removed from making the best images technically possible.

But it’s the best JPEG camera on this earth, period.

There is way more image quality than you actually need.

Set aperture to 5.6, ISO to 200, find good light, and shoot.

Humansvillian wrote:

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

patticake wrote:

LSF?

with any camera, i generally change a few settings before using it.

question - if i use only olympus lenses, would i need to set focal length to use stabilization or is setting focal length only for non-native lenses?

LSF is the Olympus Large SuperFine JPEG setting. This setting has a lower compression ratio than the Large Fine (2.7/1 vas 4/1) which IMO equates to more detail in the image. Others will, I'm sure, retort that there is no difference between Large Fine and SuperFine.....and then go on to extol how they only shot raw. In my experience the LSF gives me at least some additional latitude for post processing adjustment.

If you use any native Olympus or Panasonic lenses, you do not have to set the focal length for IS on an Olympus camera.

i always shoot the highest quality possible, and if there's less data, i believe there's less detail.

thanks. that's good to know!

i'm sending my canon setup off to mpb for a trade for an E-M10 ii and a couple lenses.

Good move, MPB is my go to for trades.

good to know - previously i sold all my cameras on craigslist, and this is my first trade with MPB.

my old user profile
http://www.dpreview.com/members/1742491492/overview

Your M10.2 will come with these settings for compression

RAW—plus you can add, or shoot alone, these JPEG settings

Super Fine (hidden deep in menu, you must activate)

Fine

Normal

Basic

The best is RAW plus Super Fine JPEG

And you’ll produce about 25 mb files.

Why Olympus hides Super Fine is Basic is probably good enough and Normal compression is absolutely adequate for all reasonable hobby use.

I shot 60 frames this morning and averaged about 3mb per frame, or les than 200mb

In good light your Olympus will nail focus, exposure, white balance, and there’s not much gained by making huge files.

The Olympus is far removed from making the best images technically possible.

But it’s the best JPEG camera on this earth, period.

There is way more image quality than you actually need.

Set aperture to 5.6, ISO to 200, find good light, and shoot.

i will mostly be using the camera indoors, although i think once the 45-159 gets here, i'll be outdoor shooting.

i figure the best quality JPGs couldn't hurt, but i'll try fine and super fine and compare.

btw, i was pretty good with panasonic menus , but for me, olympus menus are going to be a challenge!