getting back to m4/3 - used, light and cheap

years ago, i bought a panasonic GF1, and i enjoyed it for years. needs changed, and over time i owned an E-PL1 briefly, a E-PM2 and finally 2 G3's before changing to a sony A6000, which i loved, and finally back to small canon DLSRs (my current camera is a 77d).

i have wrist and shoulder damage, so i thought it would be best to find a lighter camera that has lighter lenses available. also i rented an LX100 ii, and while i didn't love everything about the camera, i did love the images. i didn't find it versatile enough when it came to reach, so here i am.

I was looking at an Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV, but while it's darn light, i'm not ready to invest much yet. so i was considering an E-PL7 to play with even though it hasn't got a second dial, which i prefer. an option might be a Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.

i shoot at a lot of focal lengths, and i also shoot closeups, macros and still lifes (lives?) in lower light. while i also shoot BIF, i'm not ready to spend enough on something with better autofocus yet...

with this future m4/3 camera, i want -
IBIS
touch focusing
flip screen
raw processing would be a plus but not a must

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

ivan bayu wrote:

patticake wrote:

with this future m4/3 camera, i want -
IBIS

well, say goodbye to the two tiniest m43 cams then, the gm1 and gm5

touch focusing

dunno about o side, but all of p cams i mentioned bellow are a pretty good with focusing by touch

flip screen

gx 7 or gx9?

raw processing would be a plus but not a must

if i were on your position, i will certainly avoid any useless fake reflex housing hump, and pick:

- gm5 (around 200-350 usd in my country now...)

- or gx8, only the black version (300-550 usd)

- or gx7 / gx80 / gx9

because an oversharpened jpeg would be a plus but i don't care, i shoot raw only and rarely raw + jpeg.

or a silver digital pen f again (priced 550 at minimum for sometime now) or that new pen 7 something, but more unlikely because i will not buy any olympus's digital camera again, bad user experience aka the super friendly menu system, the on off switcher at the wrong side, and the glorious front jpeg switcher (that's why i rarely using my digital pen f again these days, and only using it with tipod for it's hr).

the GM5 has no IBIS and a fixed screen, so not the camera for me although it is so small.  my hands aren't always that steady - IBIS means i have a wider variety of lenses i can use.

can't jpg sharpening be reduced in settings when in PASM?  i usually shoot raw+jpg, and if the jpg is good, i'm happy.  if not, i have the raw for insurance.

i have spent a lot more time with panasonic cameras than with olympias.  i thought it might be time for a switch, although who knows?

btw, a used body-only E-PL7 can be had for $200 to $250.

patticake wrote:

years ago, i bought a panasonic GF1, and i enjoyed it for years. needs changed, and over time i owned an E-PL1 briefly, a E-PM2 and finally 2 G3's before changing to a sony A6000, which i loved, and finally back to small canon DLSRs (my current camera is a 77d).

i have wrist and shoulder damage, so i thought it would be best to find a lighter camera that has lighter lenses available. also i rented an LX100 ii, and while i didn't love everything about the camera, i did love the images. i didn't find it versatile enough when it came to reach, so here i am.

I was looking at an Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV, but while it's darn light, i'm not ready to invest much yet. so i was considering an E-PL7 to play with even though it hasn't got a second dial, which i prefer. an option might be a Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.

i shoot at a lot of focal lengths, and i also shoot closeups, macros and still lifes (lives?) in lower light. while i also shoot BIF, i'm not ready to spend enough on something with better autofocus yet...

with this future m4/3 camera, i want -
IBIS
touch focusing
flip screen
raw processing would be a plus but not a must

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

The PL-7 series is about what an M10.2 camera is except:

No built in flash

Noticeably less stabilization (it’s merely magnificent and not magical)

Only one control dial.

Not as many used ones for sale, from what I can tell.

A perfect M10.2, low shutter count, box and battery is $250.

You won’t save much buying a PL-7 if you find one.

Since you’re starting from scratch on lenses I recommend a used Olympus 14-150, only $250, and a used Panasonic 20mm f1.7, only $150.

Spend another $10 on a wild looking cloth camera strap.

If you’re willing to spend another $100 or so, spring for the Olympus M5.2.

For the extra money over an M10.2, you get:

1. A gorgeous weather sealed magnesium body.

2. IBIS beyond magical, capable of eight second hand held exposures.

3. 40 mp tripod high resolution

4. Focus stacking and focus bracketing (awesome for macro)

5. The best Olympus flash ever shipped with an Olympus camera, the FLM 3, which tilts and swivels.

6. A fully articulated video type rear display

7. A pro grade soft snapping sound 1/8000 mechanical shutter

8. Pro grade Full HD video that’s stabilized by IBIS. I don’t shoot much video, but the video I shoot looks waaaay good.

Yes, a PL-7 will work.

An M10.2 works much better.

And the M5 II is so much better, if mine broke I’d buy another one.  The used price, is actually trending upwards.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OLYMPUS-OM-D-E-M5-Mark-II-16-1MP-Mint-Digital-Camera-with-battery-from-Japan-/284560087281?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Others mentioned the GX9 as an alternative. The IBIS is nowhere near as reliable as Olympus. I have the EM 1 ii where the IBIS is unbelievably good. The GX9 is probably half as good. I have wobbly hands

patticake wrote:

years ago, i bought a panasonic GF1, and i enjoyed it for years. needs changed, and over time i owned an E-PL1 briefly, a E-PM2 and finally 2 G3's before changing to a sony A6000, which i loved, and finally back to small canon DLSRs (my current camera is a 77d).

i have wrist and shoulder damage, so i thought it would be best to find a lighter camera that has lighter lenses available. also i rented an LX100 ii, and while i didn't love everything about the camera, i did love the images. i didn't find it versatile enough when it came to reach, so here i am.

I was looking at an Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV, but while it's darn light, i'm not ready to invest much yet. so i was considering an E-PL7 to play with even though it hasn't got a second dial, which i prefer. an option might be a Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.

i shoot at a lot of focal lengths, and i also shoot closeups, macros and still lifes (lives?) in lower light. while i also shoot BIF, i'm not ready to spend enough on something with better autofocus yet...

with this future m4/3 camera, i want -
IBIS
touch focusing
flip screen
raw processing would be a plus but not a must

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

The price of MFT lenses are the same, whatever Olympus or Panasonic camera you screw them on.

Olympus has one advantage here. Even the first, and cheapest on today’s used market, had a decent, workable, effective IBIS. They’ll stabilize any lens.

And starting with the PL-3 and P-3 there’s a digital teleconverter. Heres a P3 at 300mm doubled. A PL-3 body is about $100 and a P-3 about $25 more.

As you get newer, and go from a 12mp sensor to a 16mp sensor and five axis IBIS, the price goes up. A P-5 and M10.2 ought to have the same IBIS, but the M10..2 had built in EVF, live composite, and electronic shutter.
P-5

Spend more money on a M5 II and you get a little better IBIS, but a whole lot better built and luxurious camera that sold for about twice the price in the same shops as the M10.2, when both were new.

I don’t have one, but I’m certain a used M1 2 would be a step up from the M5 II in every measurement, as would an M5 3, as well. But the M1.2 is about twice the price of an M5.2 and the M5.3 is even more, because it’s current production.

When you weigh all the options for Olympus cameras in the balance of price against utility, the M10.2 I think is the winner.

But since an M10.2 is cheap, but not free, for about fifty per cent more you get an M5 II that cost twice the price when new. In reasonable lighting both take the same quality pictures.

The lenses for all of them, cost the same.

Pay more, get more.

For Olympus, I think the M10.2 is the best compromise.

patticake wrote:

years ago, i bought a panasonic GF1, and i enjoyed it for years. needs changed, and over time i owned an E-PL1 briefly, a E-PM2 and finally 2 G3's before changing to a sony A6000, which i loved, and finally back to small canon DLSRs (my current camera is a 77d).

i have wrist and shoulder damage, so i thought it would be best to find a lighter camera that has lighter lenses available. also i rented an LX100 ii, and while i didn't love everything about the camera, i did love the images. i didn't find it versatile enough when it came to reach, so here i am.

I was looking at an Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV, but while it's darn light, i'm not ready to invest much yet. so i was considering an E-PL7 to play with even though it hasn't got a second dial, which i prefer. an option might be a Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.

i shoot at a lot of focal lengths, and i also shoot closeups, macros and still lifes (lives?) in lower light. while i also shoot BIF, i'm not ready to spend enough on something with better autofocus yet...

with this future m4/3 camera, i want -
IBIS
touch focusing
flip screen
raw processing would be a plus but not a must

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

One thing to consider is weather sealing. The E-P, E-PL, and E-M10 lines do not have it.

As someone else suggested, an E-M5 Mark II is a very nice step up. Pair it with the 12-50mm lens and you get a lightweight combo that is weather sealed and has decent closeup capability.

Or, if you can swing it, the 14-150 II is a great wide angle to telephoto zoom. Add a prime later to either and you've got a lightweight kit.

thanks, all.

i don't think i mentioned it, but this would be a "test" camera just to get me feet wet with m4/3 again.  if things go well, i'd sell my canon 77d and lenses, then spend more and get a newer m4/3 camera - maybe a an olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV or a panasonic GX9 - and keep this one as a backup camera.

as i look up the OM-D E-M10 Mark II further, i see a lot of issues regarding the EVF and screen. every camera has issues, but this one seems pretty frequent. anyone have any info on this? i see plenty of them and the E-M10 Mark III at mpb.com.

14-42 EZ and "plastic fantastic" 40 -150 4.0-5.6 make a great light weight kit.

I have the MK I and MKIV as well as an EM 1 MKI. The Em10 and 14-42 EZ are very lightweight and incredibly useful combo. The 10 MK II is an incremental improvement, better IBIS in particular

patticake wrote:

years ago, i bought a panasonic GF1, and i enjoyed it for years. needs changed, and over time i owned an E-PL1 briefly, a E-PM2 and finally 2 G3's before changing to a sony A6000, which i loved, and finally back to small canon DLSRs (my current camera is a 77d).

i have wrist and shoulder damage, so i thought it would be best to find a lighter camera that has lighter lenses available. also i rented an LX100 ii, and while i didn't love everything about the camera, i did love the images. i didn't find it versatile enough when it came to reach, so here i am.

I was looking at an Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV, but while it's darn light, i'm not ready to invest much yet. so i was considering an E-PL7 to play with even though it hasn't got a second dial, which i prefer. an option might be a Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.

i shoot at a lot of focal lengths, and i also shoot closeups, macros and still lifes (lives?) in lower light. while i also shoot BIF, i'm not ready to spend enough on something with better autofocus yet...

with this future m4/3 camera, i want -
IBIS
touch focusing
flip screen
raw processing would be a plus but not a must

is there any reason why an E-PL7 wouldn't do the job for now? is the IBIS and focusing be much better on a OM-D E-M10 Mark II?

thanks, all!

Get the EM10 mark i. It meetts all your needs.  The EM10 mark iv is even better, but costs more.

peace.

John

patticake wrote:

thanks, all.

i don't think i mentioned it, but this would be a "test" camera just to get me feet wet with m4/3 again. if things go well, i'd sell my canon 77d and lenses, then spend more and get a newer m4/3 camera - maybe a an olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV or a panasonic GX9 - and keep this one as a backup camera.

as i look up the OM-D E-M10 Mark II further, i see a lot of issues regarding the EVF and screen. every camera has issues, but this one seems pretty frequent. anyone have any info on this? i see plenty of them and the E-M10 Mark III at mpb.com.

The E-M5 Mark II is another camera you might like to look into getting your feet wet with MFT.  It's weather-sealed, small, touch screen, tilt and swivel screen and has a capable IBIS and has all the controls of the E-M10II and it's well-built.  I personally like it since I got it used recently to upgrade from my other MFT camera, the E-P5.  I find 16MP more than enough for what I do.  If I need more, there is a Hi-Res mode on my E-M5II to get 40MP using a tripod ofcourse and I have used it extensively myself.  This body will last me awhile until the E-M1 Mark III comes down in price hopefully, being wowed down by the WOW camera OMDS plans to introduce this year.

In regards to JPEG and RAW; yes it does shoot both.

I agree with the EM10 ii recommendations. For “getting your feet wet”, it’s a great camera. It’s a fun camera to use and the only one that I’d immediately look for a replacement for if mine broke.  Beside MPB, check KEH, B&H, Adorama too. The plastic fantastic lens is very good and cheap!

Marie

patticake wrote:

thanks, all.

Snip

as i look up the OM-D E-M10 Mark II further, i see a lot of issues regarding the EVF and screen. every camera has issues, but this one seems pretty frequent. anyone have any info on this? i see plenty of them and the E-M10 Mark III at mpb.com.

Can you point out where you read that? I don't recall there being issues with the EVF of the M10 MKII

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shinndigg wrote:

patticake wrote:

thanks, all.

Snip

as i look up the OM-D E-M10 Mark II further, i see a lot of issues regarding the EVF and screen. every camera has issues, but this one seems pretty frequent. anyone have any info on this? i see plenty of them and the E-M10 Mark III at mpb.com.

Can you point out where you read that? I don't recall there being issues with the EVF of the M10 MKII

it seems to be the EVF sensors, at least in some cases. a pricey fix for a cheap camera makes it not so cheap. it doesn't always seem to be the exact same problem.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4579398

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4537786

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4306620

https://www.mu-43.com/threads/em10-mk-ii-evf-problem-lag-judder.81020/

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3852543

patticake wrote:

shinndigg wrote:

patticake wrote:

thanks, all.

Snip

as i look up the OM-D E-M10 Mark II further, i see a lot of issues regarding the EVF and screen. every camera has issues, but this one seems pretty frequent. anyone have any info on this? i see plenty of them and the E-M10 Mark III at mpb.com.

Can you point out where you read that? I don't recall there being issues with the EVF of the M10 MKII

it seems to be the EVF sensors, at least in some cases. a pricey fix for a cheap camera makes it not so cheap. it doesn't always seem to be the exact same problem.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4579398

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4537786

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4306620

https://www.mu-43.com/threads/em10-mk-ii-evf-problem-lag-judder.81020/

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3852543

The last two may not even be related to the EVF. The one from mu-43 could be the chosen refresh rate, 120, doesn't work in low light. The last one sounded like a slightly ajar lens... The third one seems like it was a dirty EVF that needed cleaned. The OP didn't say.

Only the first two seems to even be related.

The reason I asked is because I hadn't read of EVF issues related to the EM 10 MKII.

Maybe I'm incorrect.

I first bought the PL7 and really liked the camera in all respects, except….. no EVF. I didn’t consider (no experience) that shooting without an EVF in our bright Florida sun would become a major difficulty. In addition to the great images, I particularly liked the on off switch on the right side that allows for quick one hand operation.

So, I sold the PL7 and bought the E-M10 II. To my recollection, the 10.2 is in all respects a PL7 with the addition of the missing EVF. The E-M10 II remained my go to small kit travel camera for many years, until being recently replaced by the E-M10 IV. Paired with the very versatile 14-150, a Rokinon 7.5 fisheye, and sometimes the 12-40 f/2.8, I never felt shortchanged by the E-M10 II. I traveled a lot with it and never had a lick of trouble, my brother still uses it.

A few examples with the E-M10 II….