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55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo

Started Dec 20, 2021 | Discussions
Ali Senior Member • Posts: 1,969
55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo
1

I was lucky enough to see Metallica live last night. I used the M6II + 55-200mm as I described in this other thread.

One issue I noticed with some of the images I took was a weird stabilization/blur issue on the lower part of the image. I haven't checked all the photos yet, but it seems to have happened with some of the shots at 200mm. I used the similar settings throught out: Av f/6.3, 6400 ISO, electronic shutter; sometimes a bit of exposure compensation.

Here are two untouched images, provided full-res.

In this one you can see the issue:

Compare their shoes vs faces; or the bottom of the drum kit vs top.

And this one no issue:

Same settings as above photo except this is 1/1000s; above photo is 1/160s. Also this one was a little closer to me, but not much.

This image from the other thread at 1/80s also demonstrates the issue.

Thoughts? I have not seen this issue before with this lens, with the M6II, or earlier with M6 and M3. I don't use this lens too much however...

Trying to reproduce the problem at home later didn't.

When I get the chance I will look thru more photos to see if I can spot a pattern...

 Ali's gear list:Ali's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V Olympus TG-5 Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS80 Canon EOS M6 II Canon EOS R5
Canon EOS M3 Canon EOS M6
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Larry Rexley Senior Member • Posts: 1,238
Re: 55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo
2

It's may be some sort of rolling shutter effect, since you used the electronic shutter.

Even though each line of the sensor was 'exposed' at 1/1000 s, the total time for the entire exposure could have been much longer --- I think for the m6ii the electronic shutter readout time has been reported as around 47 milliseconds or around 1/20 of a second.

I've noticed taking images of moving trains with the M6ii and electronic shutter that the train can appear slanted even at higher shutter speeds (such as 1/500 or 1/1000s) due to its motion - as the sensor is 'scanned' top to bottom. If I pan with the train, then the train may be straight, but the background is oddly slanted. I've gotten in the habit of shooting mechanical shutter only for the fast (Amtrak) trains due to this.

Is it possible that you moved the camera vertically (perhaps 'dropped' the front of the camera down, thinking the 1/1000s exposure was done) before 1/20 of a second had elapsed? That might have resulted in some 'double' images near the bottom of the frame. With e-shutter, even though the shutter speed may be very fast, it's prudent to use camera holding technique as if you were shooting at a slow speed --- giving enough time for the full exposure to finish before moving the camera.

You might be noticing this only at longer focal lengths, as the higher magnification would magnify any camera motion.

 Larry Rexley's gear list:Larry Rexley's gear list
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OP Ali Senior Member • Posts: 1,969
Re: 55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo
1

Larry Rexley wrote:

It's may be some sort of rolling shutter effect, since you used the electronic shutter.

Even though each line of the sensor was 'exposed' at 1/1000 s, the total time for the entire exposure could have been much longer --- I think for the m6ii the electronic shutter readout time has been reported as around 47 milliseconds or around 1/20 of a second.

I've noticed taking images of moving trains with the M6ii and electronic shutter that the train can appear slanted even at higher shutter speeds (such as 1/500 or 1/1000s) due to its motion - as the sensor is 'scanned' top to bottom. If I pan with the train, then the train may be straight, but the background is oddly slanted. I've gotten in the habit of shooting mechanical shutter only for the fast (Amtrak) trains due to this.

Is it possible that you moved the camera vertically (perhaps 'dropped' the front of the camera down, thinking the 1/1000s exposure was done) before 1/20 of a second had elapsed? That might have resulted in some 'double' images near the bottom of the frame. With e-shutter, even though the shutter speed may be very fast, it's prudent to use camera holding technique as if you were shooting at a slow speed --- giving enough time for the full exposure to finish before moving the camera.

You might be noticing this only at longer focal lengths, as the higher magnification would magnify any camera motion.

Thanks for your thoughts - interesting... I haven't seen any pattern to the images with issues, and some have the issue, some don't, so what you say could be the case.

I had started off using mechanical shutter, but early on switched to electronic, not sure exactly when. I can't find a way to tell which images are which - does anyone know if the mechanical/electronic shutter info is captured in EXIF? That would help me confirm if it turned out I have none with issues before I switched.

 Ali's gear list:Ali's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V Olympus TG-5 Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS80 Canon EOS M6 II Canon EOS R5
Sue Anne Rush
Sue Anne Rush Senior Member • Posts: 6,285
Re: 55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo
1

Hello...

Ali wrote:

I was lucky enough to see Metallica live last night. I used the M6II + 55-200mm as I described in this other thread.

One issue I noticed with some of the images I took was a weird stabilization/blur issue on the lower part of the image. I haven't checked all the photos yet, but it seems to have happened with some of the shots at 200mm. I used the similar settings throught out: Av f/6.3, 6400 ISO, electronic shutter; sometimes a bit of exposure compensation.

Here are two untouched images, provided full-res.

In this one you can see the issue:

Compare their shoes vs faces; or the bottom of the drum kit vs top.

And this one no issue:

Same settings as above photo except this is 1/1000s; above photo is 1/160s. Also this one was a little closer to me, but not much.

This image from the other thread at 1/80s also demonstrates the issue.

Thoughts? I have not seen this issue before with this lens, with the M6II, or earlier with M6 and M3. I don't use this lens too much however...

Trying to reproduce the problem at home later didn't.

When I get the chance I will look thru more photos to see if I can spot a pattern...

IMHO - Excellent photographs - thank you for sharing. 

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Sue Anne Rush

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R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 26,528
Re: 55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo
1

Ali wrote:

I was lucky enough to see Metallica live last night. I used the M6II + 55-200mm as I described in this other thread.

One issue I noticed with some of the images I took was a weird stabilization/blur issue on the lower part of the image. I haven't checked all the photos yet, but it seems to have happened with some of the shots at 200mm. I used the similar settings throught out: Av f/6.3, 6400 ISO, electronic shutter; sometimes a bit of exposure compensation.

Here are two untouched images, provided full-res.

In this one you can see the issue:

And this one no issue:

This image from the other thread at 1/80s also demonstrates the issue.

Thoughts? I have not seen this issue before with this lens, with the M6II, or earlier with M6 and M3. I don't use this lens too much however...

Trying to reproduce the problem at home later didn't.

When I get the chance I will look thru more photos to see if I can spot a pattern...

Camera shake? It looks like the camera may have moved enough during the exposure for the IS to try to "re-establish itself" halfway through the exposure. It appears that the top half of the sensor got read and then the IS shifted causing the classic double-exposure blurring in the lower half. That would be my best guess.

R2

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Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
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Rock and Rollei Senior Member • Posts: 2,899
Re: 55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo
1

R2D2 wrote:

Ali wrote:

I was lucky enough to see Metallica live last night. I used the M6II + 55-200mm as I described in this other thread.

One issue I noticed with some of the images I took was a weird stabilization/blur issue on the lower part of the image. I haven't checked all the photos yet, but it seems to have happened with some of the shots at 200mm. I used the similar settings throught out: Av f/6.3, 6400 ISO, electronic shutter; sometimes a bit of exposure compensation.

Here are two untouched images, provided full-res.

In this one you can see the issue:

And this one no issue:

This image from the other thread at 1/80s also demonstrates the issue.

Thoughts? I have not seen this issue before with this lens, with the M6II, or earlier with M6 and M3. I don't use this lens too much however...

Trying to reproduce the problem at home later didn't.

When I get the chance I will look thru more photos to see if I can spot a pattern...

Camera shake? It looks like the camera may have moved enough during the exposure for the IS to try to "re-establish itself" halfway through the exposure. It appears that the top half of the sensor got read and then the IS shifted causing the classic double-exposure blurring in the lower half. That would be my best guess.

R2

Sounds quite possible, presumably an ES issue.
I think if you crop tight to the bottom of the drum riser, it looks less obvious and the pic works. And after all, nothing else matters...
(I'll get my coat.)

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OP Ali Senior Member • Posts: 1,969
Re: 55-200: Stabilization/blur issue on lower part of photo

Rock and Rollei wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

...

Camera shake? It looks like the camera may have moved enough during the exposure for the IS to try to "re-establish itself" halfway through the exposure. It appears that the top half of the sensor got read and then the IS shifted causing the classic double-exposure blurring in the lower half. That would be my best guess.

R2

Sounds quite possible, presumably an ES issue.
I think if you crop tight to the bottom of the drum riser, it looks less obvious and the pic works.

Indeed, will need to crop, even more so than this .

And after all, nothing else matters...
(I'll get my coat.)

Incredibly, they did not play that. (I think it was because this was a two night series, and those lucky enough to go to both saw it the first night...) I don't know if they'll remain unforgiven.

 Ali's gear list:Ali's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX50V Olympus TG-5 Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS80 Canon EOS M6 II Canon EOS R5
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