Thom got a Z9 to test

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
xtm Senior Member • Posts: 1,331
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
3

NickZ2016 wrote:

It's the same camera being rotated around the world

Kenny Boy has second dibs after Thom plays with it. Too bad Kai Wong was first on the list, and he already dropped it multiple times already

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shuncheung Veteran Member • Posts: 4,173
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
2

jdoman wrote:

Thom has his for only two weeks.

I'm Such a Tease...

Right, Thom is getting the loaner for two weeks, but come to think of it, we are already in early December. Production Z9 should be shipping around December 15. The two weeks will bridge Thom to his production Z9. I know that Hogan is an NPS member such that he should be getting one from the first batch.

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Mattitude V1 Contributing Member • Posts: 616
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
4

shuncheung wrote:

ProDude wrote:

I'm still waiting for ONE reviewer of the dozen's I've seen to say a negative word about their experience using the Z9 in ALL regards be it photo or video. So far all I've seen is praise and not one criticism of any function failing or lack there of. This is an exceptional result so far.

Keep in mind that whoever already has a pre-production Z9 for testing received it directly from Nikon as a favor, be it before the official announcement on October 28 or right now, such as Brad Hill and Thom Hogan. For those YouTube influencers, that means a lot of hits on their video and therefore plenty of income. If they slam the Z9, they might as well kiss their favorable relationship with Nikon goodbye. Next time when Nikon introduce the Z9 Mark II or Z8, etc., you can forget about Nikon offering them another pre-production camera again. Who is so stupid to bite the hand that feeds them?

That is why nobody should be surprised that some of those who used to constantly bad-mouth Nikon products before still received pre-production Z9, and all of a sudden they have favorable comments on the Z9 this time around.

Over a decade ago, I used to proof-read a few of Thom Hogan Nikon e-Books. When I mentioned to a Nikon contact that I worked with Hogan, his reaction was that oh no, not that Hogan rumor guy. However, it looks like their relationship has improved.

I have not pre-ordered the Z9 myself. While I have little doubt that it is a great camera, I would like to see a few reviews from people who actually pay for their production models. Hopefully I'll see some more-balanced reviews, with both the pros and cons.

This is incredibly conspiratorial and completely ignores negative reviews of the Z6/Z7. Or the EOS-R, frankly.

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shuncheung Veteran Member • Posts: 4,173
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test

kbrkr wrote:

Its very concerning that Canon can't deliver the R3 within 6 months; What makes Nikon think it can deliver its pre-orders earlier?

This is totally my speculation: I think Canon is merely making an excuse for the R3. They know that the R3 is priced too high compared to the Z9, and without enough pixels to capture 8K video, the R3 is a tough sell. Canon is trying to buy some time to replace the R3 with the R1.

But I could be totally off base.

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ProDude Senior Member • Posts: 3,480
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
1

shuncheung wrote:

First of all, Nikon priced the Z9 low. I thought it should be higher than the $6500 Sony A1, which has no built-in vertical grip. The problem with marketing too hard and you cannot deliver is that after 3, 4 months of waiting, you will have a lot of impatient, angry customers, especially those who have paid a deposit. It will give Nikon a bad reputation and those customers could be poached by other brands, if alternatives are available.

I was saying this all along and many beat me up over it like it's not a real possibility. I do feel if Nikon delivers many in December they will be virtual heroes. If they fall then like you said it will not bode well for them. Their marketing has gotten the delivery to a fevered pitch so they'd better deliver.

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NickZ2016 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,595
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
1

Canon announced they had more than the expected orders for the R3 before the Z9 was announced.

https://www.canonwatch.com/canon-already-announces-supply-shortage-for-the-eos-r3-and-the-new-lenses/

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jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,277
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
6

ProDude wrote:

shuncheung wrote:

First of all, Nikon priced the Z9 low. I thought it should be higher than the $6500 Sony A1, which has no built-in vertical grip. The problem with marketing too hard and you cannot deliver is that after 3, 4 months of waiting, you will have a lot of impatient, angry customers, especially those who have paid a deposit. It will give Nikon a bad reputation and those customers could be poached by other brands, if alternatives are available.

I was saying this all along and many beat me up over it like it's not a real possibility. I do feel if Nikon delivers many in December they will be virtual heroes. If they fall then like you said it will not bode well for them. Their marketing has gotten the delivery to a fevered pitch so they'd better deliver.

You definitely exaggerate here.  This product appears to be good enough that people who want it will wait a few more months for it if that's what it takes.  Don't get me wrong, the sooner Nikon can start shipping, the more total sales they will create with it just due to the total selling time before it is bested by some future camera, but this camera isn't going to suddenly be surpassed and out-of-date two months from now if that's how long it takes to get volume to the market.

I'm personally happy to see Nikon finally doing real marketing in the channels that many of their enthusiasts hang out.  I think Nikon's been getting their clocks cleaned in marketing for years so it's about time they upped their game in that regard.  And, what better product to do that with than one that seems to be a winner and a nice flagship for the brand.

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John

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shuncheung Veteran Member • Posts: 4,173
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
2

Mattitude V1 wrote:

shuncheung wrote:

ProDude wrote:

I'm still waiting for ONE reviewer of the dozen's I've seen to say a negative word about their experience using the Z9 in ALL regards be it photo or video. So far all I've seen is praise and not one criticism of any function failing or lack there of. This is an exceptional result so far.

Keep in mind that whoever already has a pre-production Z9 for testing received it directly from Nikon as a favor, be it before the official announcement on October 28 or right now, such as Brad Hill and Thom Hogan. For those YouTube influencers, that means a lot of hits on their video and therefore plenty of income. If they slam the Z9, they might as well kiss their favorable relationship with Nikon goodbye. Next time when Nikon introduce the Z9 Mark II or Z8, etc., you can forget about Nikon offering them another pre-production camera again. Who is so stupid to bite the hand that feeds them?

That is why nobody should be surprised that some of those who used to constantly bad-mouth Nikon products before still received pre-production Z9, and all of a sudden they have favorable comments on the Z9 this time around.

I have not pre-ordered the Z9 myself. While I have little doubt that it is a great camera, I would like to see a few reviews from people who actually pay for their production models. Hopefully I'll see some more-balanced reviews, with both the pros and cons.

This is incredibly conspiratorial and completely ignores negative reviews of the Z6/Z7. Or the EOS-R, frankly.

You scratch my back, and I scratch your back is pretty common practice. A few years ago, I used to get loaner new products from Nikon USA to review. Since most higher-end Nikon cameras and lenses are very good, my reviews are mostly favorable. Once Nikon offered me the 18-300mm DX super zoom. I openly told my contact that I don't particularly like super zooms; most likely I'll find a lot of flaws with that lens and I will pull no punches. They immediately told me it is better that I don't review that lens.

For me, photography is merely a side hobby, although a very serious one. I do have a separate, unrelated day job.

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mosswings Veteran Member • Posts: 9,897
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
14

shuncheung wrote:

Mattitude V1 wrote:

shuncheung wrote:

ProDude wrote:

I'm still waiting for ONE reviewer of the dozen's I've seen to say a negative word about their experience using the Z9 in ALL regards be it photo or video. So far all I've seen is praise and not one criticism of any function failing or lack there of. This is an exceptional result so far.

Keep in mind that whoever already has a pre-production Z9 for testing received it directly from Nikon as a favor, be it before the official announcement on October 28 or right now, such as Brad Hill and Thom Hogan. For those YouTube influencers, that means a lot of hits on their video and therefore plenty of income. If they slam the Z9, they might as well kiss their favorable relationship with Nikon goodbye. Next time when Nikon introduce the Z9 Mark II or Z8, etc., you can forget about Nikon offering them another pre-production camera again. Who is so stupid to bite the hand that feeds them?

That is why nobody should be surprised that some of those who used to constantly bad-mouth Nikon products before still received pre-production Z9, and all of a sudden they have favorable comments on the Z9 this time around.

I have not pre-ordered the Z9 myself. While I have little doubt that it is a great camera, I would like to see a few reviews from people who actually pay for their production models. Hopefully I'll see some more-balanced reviews, with both the pros and cons.

This is incredibly conspiratorial and completely ignores negative reviews of the Z6/Z7. Or the EOS-R, frankly.

You scratch my back, and I scratch your back is pretty common practice. A few years ago, I used to get loaner new products from Nikon USA to review. Since most higher-end Nikon cameras and lenses are very good, my reviews are mostly favorable. Once Nikon offered me the 18-300mm DX super zoom. I openly told my contact that I don't particularly like super zooms; most likely I'll find a lot of flaws with that lens and I will pull no punches. They immediately told me it is better that I don't review that lens.

For me, photography is merely a side hobby, although a very serious one. I do have a separate, unrelated day job.

What favorable relationship?  Thom has been one of their harshest critics...of their marketing, customer service, conservatism, and UI cheese-moving, especially.  He likes the quality of the files and their color science.
If Thom received a preproduction model for his (limited) review, it was at Nikon's initiative, not his.  I'm rather surprised that Nikon did this.

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ProDude Senior Member • Posts: 3,480
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test

jfriend00 wrote:

You definitely exaggerate here. This product appears to be good enough that people who want it will wait a few more months for it if that's what it takes. Don't get me wrong, the sooner Nikon can start shipping, the more total sales they will create with it just due to the total selling time before it is bested by some future camera, but this camera isn't going to suddenly be surpassed and out-of-date two months from now if that's how long it takes to get volume to the market.

I'm personally happy to see Nikon finally doing real marketing in the channels that many of their enthusiasts hang out. I think Nikon's been getting their clocks cleaned in marketing for years so it's about time they upped their game in that regard. And, what better product to do that with than one that seems to be a winner and a nice flagship for the brand.

We get to find out in only 2 more weeks how this is going to shake down. I'm not saying there won't be many more than willing to wait a few months to get their hands on it. What I'm saying is if what Canon has had happen to them now announcing the 6 month wait for a R3 happened to Nikon it would NOT go well. Canon is planning to announce their R1 next summer with delivery possible before years end. If that happened like I said to Nikon the R1 could steal their thunder a bit. What I'm hoping for for Nikon's sake is they have Thailand ramped up to the point that a 1-3 month wait would be the worst-case scenario for delivery of a Z9 to a customer. Anything beyond that and the fire starts to burn out.

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flashpixx
flashpixx Senior Member • Posts: 1,357
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
3

VBLondon wrote:

MichaelHK wrote:

https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-cameras/the-z9-blog/

I am interested in Thom's views, so thanks for the link.

I'm also waiting for the obligatory reply to any thread that mentions him, so I'll do 2 things to save time: put the usual post text in, so it can be copy-pasted, and my reply:

So who is this "Thom" and why does anyone care what he thinks?

Nikon writer and blogger 20 years+, highly respected reviews and guide books etc etc etc

Looking forward to Thom's guide for the Z9, always much better than Nikon's manual.

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Gordon
Perth Western Australia
http://www.flashpixx.net

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1llusive
1llusive Veteran Member • Posts: 3,560
Re: About his Fn1/Fn2/Fn3 comments
1

just Tony wrote:

What I'd want to know is whether Fn3 can be set to be one thing for landscape orientation but something different when in portrait. The idea there is that I might want Fn3/portrait to be the same as Fn1/landscape. Maybe the only way to get that would be to have Fn3 just be the same as Fn1, a bit of a waste.

Why would you do that to yourself? I try to keep my buttons the same across modes to help muscle memory. Maybe I am not understanding the use case.

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VBLondon Senior Member • Posts: 2,242
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
4

shuncheung wrote:

MichaelHK wrote:

https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-cameras/the-z9-blog/

Looks like Nikon is still marketing the Z9 very hard, to keep the momentum going. I would like to think that if Nikon has so many Z9 preorders that they cannot fill for months to come, they wouldn’t be pushing it this much.

How is sending one guy, who has patiently been writing blogs and guide books for 20 years, a preproduction loaner "marketing..very hard" "to keep the momentum" and "pushing this much"?

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shuncheung Veteran Member • Posts: 4,173
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
2

VBLondon wrote:

shuncheung wrote:

MichaelHK wrote:

https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-cameras/the-z9-blog/

Looks like Nikon is still marketing the Z9 very hard, to keep the momentum going. I would like to think that if Nikon has so many Z9 preorders that they cannot fill for months to come, they wouldn’t be pushing it this much.

How is sending one guy, who has patiently been writing blogs and guide books for 20 years, a preproduction loaner "marketing..very hard" "to keep the momentum" and "pushing this much"?

It is more than one guy. Brad Hill also recently received a pre-production Z9 for testing, from Nikon Canada: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65703863

Who knows how many such guys Nikon is sending Z9's to?

The fact that Nikon is sending Z9’s to reviewers who have previously been very critical of Nikon, fairly or unfairly, (e.g. Hogan and Jared Polin) tells me that Nikon is pushing the Z9 very hard.

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Micheal Hall Senior Member • Posts: 1,276
Re: About his Fn1/Fn2/Fn3 comments
1

If I recall correctly, I believe that Thom advocates for using back button AF with the thumb, pressing the shutter button with your middle finger, leaving your index finger always available to access the controls on the top plate with your index finger and the custom Function buttons with your middle, ring and pinky and fingers.

Personally, that feels extremely awkward to me and like it would only really work on a mono- or tripod. However, my camera holding style is geared to prioritize my ability to continually and very quickly adjust focal length on my workhorse lens, the 70-200.

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Micheal

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michaeladawson Forum Pro • Posts: 17,184
Re: About his Fn1/Fn2/Fn3 comments
1

Micheal Hall wrote:

If I recall correctly, I believe that Thom advocates for using back button AF with the thumb, pressing the shutter button with your middle finger, leaving your index finger always available to access the controls on the top plate with your index finger and the custom Function buttons with your middle, ring and pinky and fingers.

Personally, that feels extremely awkward to me and like it would only really work on a mono- or tripod. However, my camera holding style is geared to prioritize my ability to continually and very quickly adjust focal length on my workhorse lens, the 70-200.

Yeah.  That seems totally whack.  Well, some people think that those of us that use BBF are whack.  So to each their own.  But I will never be using my middle finger to trigger the shutter button.

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Mike Dawson

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just Tony
just Tony Veteran Member • Posts: 3,904
Muscle memory is worth preserving
1

1llusive wrote:

just Tony wrote:

What I'd want to know is whether Fn3 can be set to be one thing for landscape orientation but something different when in portrait. The idea there is that I might want Fn3/portrait to be the same as Fn1/landscape. Maybe the only way to get that would be to have Fn3 just be the same as Fn1, a bit of a waste.

Why would you do that to yourself? I try to keep my buttons the same across modes to help muscle memory. Maybe I am not understanding the use case.

It’s to serve the exact principle you stated. Same finger, same reach, same function; same muscle memory for both orientations. Like what they did with the shutter button, AF-On, and the control wheels.

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Ramon767 Regular Member • Posts: 260
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
5

Great to see Thom on the case, he’s a benchmark of common sense, for me at least.

The only thing that I wish would disappear from all camera reviews (and i know that this is a condition of the review item being provided) is the terminology “pre-production”.

Such a fudge. Clearly the thing has been mass produced on a well tooled production line and they aren’t going to beta test with reviewers.

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Ramon767 Regular Member • Posts: 260
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test
1

A lot of odd assumptions in there.

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just Tony
just Tony Veteran Member • Posts: 3,904
Re: Thom got a Z9 to test

ProDude wrote:

I'm still waiting for ONE reviewer of the dozen's I've seen to say a negative word about their experience using the Z9 in ALL regards be it photo or video. So far all I've seen is praise and not one criticism of any function failing or lack there of. This is an exceptional result so far.

Sorry I don’t recall his name at the moment, he’s the guy with the youtube channel who got pushback for his video about birding with adapted lenses, who wasn’t a bird shooter himself.

He has a vid with I think 5 complaints about the body.

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