Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

Started Nov 29, 2021 | Discussions
lococola Regular Member • Posts: 187
Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
1

I'm seeing confliciting reports on whether the Sony A7 IV has an AA filter or not. Some commenters here on DPreview claim it does, but curiously there is no mention at all regarding the presence of an AA filter in any of the DPreview (video) reviews.

Some other websiteclaims there is no AA filter. Worst part, the Sony website itself makes no mention of it at all!

Anyone who can point me to a real documented answer, other than speculation? Looking for cold, hard facts

Sony a7
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papajohnny
papajohnny Contributing Member • Posts: 651
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
2

lococola wrote:

Some other website claims there is no AA filter.

They also say "On-Sensor Phase Detect: No"

I don't know, but if I were to speculate I'd say it's more likely it has AA filter, perhaps unidirectional. The resolution is not high enough to prevent aliasing, even 42MP should have had AA filter, the aliasing is often visible.

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QuietOC
QuietOC Veteran Member • Posts: 7,011
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

It looks like Sony is actively answering questions posted at https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/interchangeable-lens-cameras/all-interchangeable-lens-cameras/p/ilce7m4-b

Probably it has a weak one-way filter like the A7C, A7III, A7II, and A7. That would a reason to upgrade from any of the R models.

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vindellama Regular Member • Posts: 119
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
6

Probably it has a weak one-way filter like the A7C, A7III, A7II, and A7. That would a reason to upgrade from any of the R models.

Why?

Anyone would rather have to deal with aliasing in a small fraction of pictures than all of the pictures not resolving the actual resolution of the sensor + the added noise at base ISO.

QuietOC
QuietOC Veteran Member • Posts: 7,011
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
1

vindellama wrote:

Probably it has a weak one-way filter like the A7C, A7III, A7II, and A7. That would a reason to upgrade from any of the R models.

Why?

Anyone would rather have to deal with aliasing in a small fraction of pictures than all of the pictures not resolving the actual resolution of the sensor + the added noise at base ISO.

Aliasing is objectively awful looking. I prefer more natural looking images.

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vindellama Regular Member • Posts: 119
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

QuietOC wrote:

vindellama wrote:

Probably it has a weak one-way filter like the A7C, A7III, A7II, and A7. That would a reason to upgrade from any of the R models.

Why?

Anyone would rather have to deal with aliasing in a small fraction of pictures than all of the pictures not resolving the actual resolution of the sensor + the added noise at base ISO.

Aliasing is objectively awful looking. I prefer more natural looking images.

More than small leafs looking like green blotches?

Also...

According to the PhotographyBlog review it has a low pass filter.

Should be easy to check just by looking at raws at 1:1 if it is actualy resolving the resolution on small details or if the image is soft.

papajohnny
papajohnny Contributing Member • Posts: 651
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
1

QuietOC wrote:

vindellama wrote:

Probably it has a weak one-way filter like the A7C, A7III, A7II, and A7. That would a reason to upgrade from any of the R models.

Why?

Anyone would rather have to deal with aliasing in a small fraction of pictures than all of the pictures not resolving the actual resolution of the sensor + the added noise at base ISO.

Aliasing is objectively awful looking. I prefer more natural looking images.

I haven't seen anything awful looking, do you have a particular example in mind?

From my perspective, monochromatic aliasing at those high resolutions is not noticeable, it's only a problem if there are visible false colors. Those can be cleaned up either automatically or manually in post processing.

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jorge elguera
jorge elguera Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
1

Definitely not. Blurry pictures is not natural to me, and that is what the filer does, apply a slight blur to avoid patterns created by the sensor. I have never experienced moiré or any awful lookimg pattern in my A7 Riii. I prefer no filter anytime.

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Euell Veteran Member • Posts: 5,843
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

lococola wrote:

I'm seeing confliciting reports on whether the Sony A7 IV has an AA filter or not. Some commenters here on DPreview claim it does, but curiously there is no mention at all regarding the presence of an AA filter in any of the DPreview (video) reviews.

Some other websiteclaims there is no AA filter. Worst part, the Sony website itself makes no mention of it at all!

Anyone who can point me to a real documented answer, other than speculation? Looking for cold, hard facts

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a7-iv/sony-a7-ivA.HTM
Yes, imaging Resource is likely accurate that there is no low pass filter, unlike the A7 iii, but there is a less authoritative statement to the contrary https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/sony_a7_iv_review

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richj20 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,755
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

Euell wrote:

lococola wrote:

I'm seeing confliciting reports on whether the Sony A7 IV has an AA filter or not. Some commenters here on DPreview claim it does, but curiously there is no mention at all regarding the presence of an AA filter in any of the DPreview (video) reviews.

Some other websiteclaims there is no AA filter. Worst part, the Sony website itself makes no mention of it at all!

Anyone who can point me to a real documented answer, other than speculation? Looking for cold, hard facts

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a7-iv/sony-a7-ivA.HTM
Yes, imaging Resource is likely accurate that there is no low pass filter, unlike the A7 iii, but there is a less authoritative statement to the contrary https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/sony_a7_iv_review

Why is it less authoritative?

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Richard

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Tristimulus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,999
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

QuietOC wrote:

vindellama wrote:

Probably it has a weak one-way filter like the A7C, A7III, A7II, and A7. That would a reason to upgrade from any of the R models.

Why?

Anyone would rather have to deal with aliasing in a small fraction of pictures than all of the pictures not resolving the actual resolution of the sensor + the added noise at base ISO.

Aliasing is objectively awful looking. I prefer more natural looking images.

+1001

The loss of resolution is miniscule anyway.

Guess most would have a hard time spotting the differenc in resolution between properly processed files anyway (proper sharpening of the RAW files).

Moire anyone would notice instantly.

My comment is based on beeing pro anti aliasing. 

All Bushs Fault Senior Member • Posts: 1,022
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

vindellama wrote:

QuietOC wrote:

vindellama wrote:

Probably it has a weak one-way filter like the A7C, A7III, A7II, and A7. That would a reason to upgrade from any of the R models.

Why?

Anyone would rather have to deal with aliasing in a small fraction of pictures than all of the pictures not resolving the actual resolution of the sensor + the added noise at base ISO.

Aliasing is objectively awful looking. I prefer more natural looking images.

More than small leafs looking like green blotches?

Also...

According to the PhotographyBlog review it has a low pass filter.

Should be easy to check just by looking at raws at 1:1 if it is actualy resolving the resolution on small details or if the image is soft.

Both of you have legitimate points about AA filters if we are willing to accept generalizations. I owned the first camera I am aware of that did not have an AA filter, the D800E. I suffered very few instances where an image exhibited aliasing bad enough to discard (mostly manifested in tiny isolated areas within the frame that had to be viewed very closely to detect). I shoot landscape exclusively so it was easy for these isolated instances to blend in unnoticed. However, the most noticeable instances involved images that had surfaces prone to aliasing like buildings or when I included a clothed humans in the shot. However, other users complained about the aliasing who probably would have been better off with the D800 due to their subject matter.

Higher pixel counts mitigate (but do not eliminate) aliasing. The D800 cameras were 36 MPs so I think it is a good idea that this 33 MP camera has an AA filter if it is going to appeal to the widest range of shooters. PS & C1 have sharpening tools in their RAW converters to offset the AA filter effect and other nasties.

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Euell Veteran Member • Posts: 5,843
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

richj20 wrote:

Euell wrote:

lococola wrote:

I'm seeing confliciting reports on whether the Sony A7 IV has an AA filter or not. Some commenters here on DPreview claim it does, but curiously there is no mention at all regarding the presence of an AA filter in any of the DPreview (video) reviews.

Some other websiteclaims there is no AA filter. Worst part, the Sony website itself makes no mention of it at all!

Anyone who can point me to a real documented answer, other than speculation? Looking for cold, hard facts

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a7-iv/sony-a7-ivA.HTM
Yes, imaging Resource is likely accurate that there is no low pass filter, unlike the A7 iii, but there is a less authoritative statement to the contrary https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/sony_a7_iv_review

Why is it less authoritative?

Imaging Resource has gotten this issue correct for past models and the review was explicit on the point of there being no low pass filter. Sony designers have opted to omit the low pass filter for higher resolution sensors, presumably because those who purchase cameras with higher resolution sensors don't want high resolution compromised. Another major consideration is that as pixel density increases, aliasing decreases. The A7 iv has 33 megapixels and the original 36-megapixel A7R omitted a low pass filter. So, I think it makes sense that Sony would drop the low pass filter for the A7 iv due to its increased resolution over the 24 megapixel A7 iii. But, you do have contradictory reviews on the point.

More reviews that agree there is NO low pass filter:  https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/sony-vs-sony/a7-iv-vs-a7r-iii/ and https://photographylife.com/sony-a7-iii-vs-sony-a7-iv and https://cameradecision.com/review/Sony-Alpha-A7R-IV

There may be more, but I have other things to do.

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richj20 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,755
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

Thanks for your response!

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Richard

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OP lococola Regular Member • Posts: 187
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
10

I e-mailed Sony a few weeks ago and I finally received a reply from Sony customer support. They tell me the A7 IV does not have an AA filter.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for your patience.
We apologise for any inconvenience.
With reference to your enquiry, we received an update from our relevant team confirming that the Sony ILCE-7M4K does not have an AA filter.
Thank you for understanding and should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Yours sincerely,

havoc315 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,075
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
1

lococola wrote:

I e-mailed Sony a few weeks ago and I finally received a reply from Sony customer support. They tell me the A7 IV does not have an AA filter.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for your patience.
We apologise for any inconvenience.
With reference to your enquiry, we received an update from our relevant team confirming that the Sony ILCE-7M4K does not have an AA filter.
Thank you for understanding and should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Yours sincerely,

Comports with by observations -- the A7iv is capable of ultra sharp images.

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richj20 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,755
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

lococola wrote:

I e-mailed Sony a few weeks ago and I finally received a reply from Sony customer support. They tell me the A7 IV does not have an AA filter.

Thanks for the confirmation.

I would be interested in a side by side comparison with A7 III to see there is a significant difference.

I did such a test between Panasonic GX8 (with filter) and GX9 (w/o filter) and found no significant difference. Nor did others on the forum.

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QuietOC
QuietOC Veteran Member • Posts: 7,011
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
3

lococola wrote:

I e-mailed Sony a few weeks ago and I finally received a reply from Sony customer support. They tell me the A7 IV does not have an AA filter.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for your patience.
We apologise for any inconvenience.
With reference to your enquiry, we received an update from our relevant team confirming that the Sony ILCE-7M4K does not have an AA filter.
Thank you for understanding and should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Yours sincerely,

Sony refers to these as an "optical low-pass filter." I wouldn't assume this response covers that item. Is "AA" the term you used in your question?

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OP lococola Regular Member • Posts: 187
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?

QuietOC wrote:

lococola wrote:

I e-mailed Sony a few weeks ago and I finally received a reply from Sony customer support. They tell me the A7 IV does not have an AA filter.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for your patience.
We apologise for any inconvenience.
With reference to your enquiry, we received an update from our relevant team confirming that the Sony ILCE-7M4K does not have an AA filter.
Thank you for understanding and should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Yours sincerely,

Sony refers to these as an "optical low-pass filter." I wouldn't assume this response covers that item. Is "AA" the term you used in your question?

Yes I did specifically ask if the camera had an "AA" filter. It seems far-fetched to me to think that they would not know what that means. But anything is possible.

papajohnny
papajohnny Contributing Member • Posts: 651
Re: Does the A7 IV have an AA filter or not?
6

lococola wrote:

QuietOC wrote:

lococola wrote:

I e-mailed Sony a few weeks ago and I finally received a reply from Sony customer support. They tell me the A7 IV does not have an AA filter.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for your patience.
We apologise for any inconvenience.
With reference to your enquiry, we received an update from our relevant team confirming that the Sony ILCE-7M4K does not have an AA filter.
Thank you for understanding and should you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Yours sincerely,

Sony refers to these as an "optical low-pass filter." I wouldn't assume this response covers that item. Is "AA" the term you used in your question?

Yes I did specifically ask if the camera had an "AA" filter. It seems far-fetched to me to think that they would not know what that means. But anything is possible.

Frankly, Customer Support doesn't know anything beyond "turn your camera off and on again, does it fix the issue?"

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