Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

Started 7 months ago | Questions
sridharj Junior Member • Posts: 30
Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

On a recent trip, using the Canon T3i body and the 100-400 IS II lens, I took some shots of birds. Some of them were at a distance while others were much closer.

On the computer, using a 27-inch QHD monitor (I think uses a 6-bit color profile), I find that the RAW files seem to have a lot of noise or blurred.

Please help me determine if its my technique, the camera or the monitor that's the problem. If I am asking this, I am almost sure it's me, but I want to rule out other things before I break my head

2 Sample images:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkpuYi2ELxFflBHeOcnfxmndp8kb?e=z0FfTd

Thanks

ANSWER:
Canon EOS 600D (EOS Rebel T3i / EOS Kiss X5)
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FrancoD Forum Pro • Posts: 17,308
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help
1

It isn't the monitor because I see the problem on mine.

Can you post a JPEG file of that here so that we can get the EXIF data from it ?

SoCalAngler Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help
1

sridharj wrote:

On a recent trip, using the Canon T3i body and the 100-400 IS II lens, I took some shots of birds. Some of them were at a distance while others were much closer.

On the computer, using a 27-inch QHD monitor (I think uses a 6-bit color profile), I find that the RAW files seem to have a lot of noise or blurred.

Please help me determine if its my technique, the camera or the monitor that's the problem. If I am asking this, I am almost sure it's me, but I want to rule out other things before I break my head

2 Sample images:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkpuYi2ELxFflBHeOcnfxmndp8kb?e=z0FfTd

Thanks

Not sure what the issue is with your computer or viewing tools..  How are you viewing the files?

On my iMac (27") the raw files look clean in the Preview app, and when opened in Adobe ACR and Affinity Photo, though it looks like a bit of a focus miss on the bird on both. With all three methods they at first look blurry and noisy when the file is first opened but clean up within a second after the software finishes rendering the image.

 SoCalAngler's gear list:SoCalAngler's gear list
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FrancoD Forum Pro • Posts: 17,308
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

SoCalAngler wrote:

sridharj wrote:

On a recent trip, using the Canon T3i body and the 100-400 IS II lens, I took some shots of birds. Some of them were at a distance while others were much closer.

On the computer, using a 27-inch QHD monitor (I think uses a 6-bit color profile), I find that the RAW files seem to have a lot of noise or blurred.

Please help me determine if its my technique, the camera or the monitor that's the problem. If I am asking this, I am almost sure it's me, but I want to rule out other things before I break my head

2 Sample images:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkpuYi2ELxFflBHeOcnfxmndp8kb?e=z0FfTd

Thanks

Not sure what the issue is with your computer or viewing tools.. How are you viewing the files?

On my iMac (27") the raw files look clean in the Preview app, and when opened in Adobe ACR and Affinity Photo, though it looks like a bit of a focus miss on the bird on both. With all three methods they at first look blurry and noisy when the file is first opened but clean up within a second after the software finishes rendering the image.

I saw that but the image is still soft after it has fully opened. (it looks soft to me but maybe I am expecting too much ...)

SoCalAngler Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

FrancoD wrote:

SoCalAngler wrote:

sridharj wrote:

On a recent trip, using the Canon T3i body and the 100-400 IS II lens, I took some shots of birds. Some of them were at a distance while others were much closer.

On the computer, using a 27-inch QHD monitor (I think uses a 6-bit color profile), I find that the RAW files seem to have a lot of noise or blurred.

Please help me determine if its my technique, the camera or the monitor that's the problem. If I am asking this, I am almost sure it's me, but I want to rule out other things before I break my head

2 Sample images:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkpuYi2ELxFflBHeOcnfxmndp8kb?e=z0FfTd

Thanks

Not sure what the issue is with your computer or viewing tools.. How are you viewing the files?

On my iMac (27") the raw files look clean in the Preview app, and when opened in Adobe ACR and Affinity Photo, though it looks like a bit of a focus miss on the bird on both. With all three methods they at first look blurry and noisy when the file is first opened but clean up within a second after the software finishes rendering the image.

I saw that but the image is still soft after it has fully opened. (it looks soft to me but maybe I am expecting too much ...)

The camera is a 10 year old model with an older sensor. Looks to me like a bit of focus miss on both birds. On the image with the vertical branches on the left it looks like focus is on the branch - so maybe some back focus.

Noise looks like what I recall from those older sensors ( I use Nikon but knew a number of folks with that camera). It also seems to match the samples here (ISO set to 800):

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos600d/18

Me thinks if the birds were larger in the frame the noise in the background sky wouldn't be as noticeable. As shot, the sky dominates the frame.

 SoCalAngler's gear list:SoCalAngler's gear list
Nikon D40 Nikon D7100 Nikon Z5 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM +7 more
OP sridharj Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

Seeing the EXIF info, IMG_5003 shows F5 at 300mm, 1/4000 sec with ISO 800, while IMG_5028 shows F10 at 400mm, 1/1250 sec at ISO 800

OP sridharj Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

SoCalAngler wrote:

The camera is a 10 year old model with an older sensor. Looks to me like a bit of focus miss on both birds. On the image with the vertical branches on the left it looks like focus is on the branch - so maybe some back focus.

Me thinks if the birds were larger in the frame the noise in the background sky wouldn't be as noticeable. As shot, the sky dominates the frame.

The birds were pretty far off, so that could be one reason for the wider view, even with max zoom of 640mm (1.6x * 400).

Also, by Back focus, does it look like the lens' focusing is slightly off OR the AF/manual focus wasn't correct?

Thank you!

SoCalAngler Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

sridharj wrote:

SoCalAngler wrote:

The camera is a 10 year old model with an older sensor. Looks to me like a bit of focus miss on both birds. On the image with the vertical branches on the left it looks like focus is on the branch - so maybe some back focus.

Me thinks if the birds were larger in the frame the noise in the background sky wouldn't be as noticeable. As shot, the sky dominates the frame.

The birds were pretty far off, so that could be one reason for the wider view, even with max zoom of 640mm (1.6x * 400).

Also, by Back focus, does it look like the lens' focusing is slightly off OR the AF/manual focus wasn't correct?

Thank you!

I pulled the raw images down from the link and looked closely.

In image 5028 it looks like the focus is on the middle section of  the vertical branch or trunk near where it splits.  Based on the geometry of the branches - it looks like the branch that the bird is on is closer to the camera - based on what I think I am seeing that would mean the plane of focus is behind the bird.  Thus back focus.

If you focused manually it could just be a manual focus error. If auto focus it could be that the lens and the camera sensor and focusing system are not within perfect specification.  That isn't unusual and will show up more with long lenses. More costly DSLR bodies would usually have a fine tuning option to help adjust for that.   I don't think the Rebel/Kiss cameras have that capability.   Another possibility is that size of the focus sensor that is on the bird is not covering the bird and the bright background is causing the autofocus system to miss a bit.

In image 5003 the focus on the bird seems to be a bit better but still off and I don't really see anything in the frame that looks in focus, though the branch sticking up to the right of the bird appears to be in better focus and behind the bird a bit.

Given the distance you may have run into an issue with unstable air caused by heat.

It is possible that if you were much closer, or the target was much larger you may have got a sharper image.  Small birds and small targets are tough subjects getting close helps a lot.

 SoCalAngler's gear list:SoCalAngler's gear list
Nikon D40 Nikon D7100 Nikon Z5 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM +7 more
OP sridharj Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

SoCalAngler wrote:

I pulled the raw images down from the link and looked closely.

In image 5028 it looks like the focus is on the middle section of the vertical branch or trunk near where it splits. Based on the geometry of the branches - it looks like the branch that the bird is on is closer to the camera - based on what I think I am seeing that would mean the plane of focus is behind the bird. Thus back focus.

If you focused manually it could just be a manual focus error. If auto focus it could be that the lens and the camera sensor and focusing system are not within perfect specification. That isn't unusual and will show up more with long lenses. More costly DSLR bodies would usually have a fine tuning option to help adjust for that. I don't think the Rebel/Kiss cameras have that capability. Another possibility is that size of the focus sensor that is on the bird is not covering the bird and the bright background is causing the autofocus system to miss a bit.

In image 5003 the focus on the bird seems to be a bit better but still off and I don't really see anything in the frame that looks in focus, though the branch sticking up to the right of the bird appears to be in better focus and behind the bird a bit.

Given the distance you may have run into an issue with unstable air caused by heat.

It is possible that if you were much closer, or the target was much larger you may have got a sharper image. Small birds and small targets are tough subjects getting close helps a lot.

It's probably a mix of all/some of them - the distance, heat, slight back focus and light.

I have added a few more images taken with the same combination (+/- 1 day), but a bit closer. The distance to the subject is quite less (around 370mm), so sharpness seems to be better.

Overall, the monitor/computer  don't seem to be the issue, its more of the camera and technique (hand-holding a tele lens at max zoom), that seems to be the issue.

Are there sharp RAW images that I can download and compare?

SoCalAngler Contributing Member • Posts: 538
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

It's probably a mix of all/some of them - the distance, heat, slight back focus and light.

I have added a few more images taken with the same combination (+/- 1 day), but a bit closer. The distance to the subject is quite less (around 370mm), so sharpness seems to be better.

Overall, the monitor/computer don't seem to be the issue, its more of the camera and technique (hand-holding a tele lens at max zoom), that seems to be the issue.

Are there sharp RAW images that I can download and compare?

Image 5256 looks much better. The other two still appear to be out of focus. Moving birds are tough.

I use a monopod as much as possible, except for birds in flight.  I have a bit of tremor in my hands so even with in body or in lens stabilization I usually need support with focal lengths greater than about 135 mm full frame equivalent

I don’t know of any raw examples from your camera model but the review I linked earlier has a sample gallery and I can see noise in the sky in the images with blue sky - and those were are ISO 100 and 200.

The first two shots you had were at ISO 800 and 1/4000 second. You could have probably shot at ISO 200 and 1/1000  and if on a monopod maybe ISO 100 and 1/500 since the birds were perched.

 SoCalAngler's gear list:SoCalAngler's gear list
Nikon D40 Nikon D7100 Nikon Z5 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM +7 more
selected answer This post was selected as the answer by the original poster.
Eightace Regular Member • Posts: 321
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

Look ok on my 27inch 1440p screen

Two might be slightly out of focus but nothing strange about them to me.

OP sridharj Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

SoCalAngler wrote:

It's probably a mix of all/some of them - the distance, heat, slight back focus and light.

I have added a few more images taken with the same combination (+/- 1 day), but a bit closer. The distance to the subject is quite less (around 370mm), so sharpness seems to be better.

Overall, the monitor/computer don't seem to be the issue, its more of the camera and technique (hand-holding a tele lens at max zoom), that seems to be the issue.

Are there sharp RAW images that I can download and compare?

Image 5256 looks much better. The other two still appear to be out of focus. Moving birds are tough.

I use a monopod as much as possible, except for birds in flight. I have a bit of tremor in my hands so even with in body or in lens stabilization I usually need support with focal lengths greater than about 135 mm full frame equivalent

I don’t know of any raw examples from your camera model but the review I linked earlier has a sample gallery and I can see noise in the sky in the images with blue sky - and those were are ISO 100 and 200.

The first two shots you had were at ISO 800 and 1/4000 second. You could have probably shot at ISO 200 and 1/1000 and if on a monopod maybe ISO 100 and 1/500 since the birds were perched.

Thanks. I have a better idea now and have marked your response as the answer. For comparison, I am looking for a full RAW file from any camera+lens combination - wildlife with a telephoto lens. Just so I know what to look for when reviewing my photos

Bill Ferris
Bill Ferris Veteran Member • Posts: 8,253
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help
3

sridharj wrote:

SoCalAngler wrote:

It's probably a mix of all/some of them - the distance, heat, slight back focus and light.

I have added a few more images taken with the same combination (+/- 1 day), but a bit closer. The distance to the subject is quite less (around 370mm), so sharpness seems to be better.

Overall, the monitor/computer don't seem to be the issue, its more of the camera and technique (hand-holding a tele lens at max zoom), that seems to be the issue.

Are there sharp RAW images that I can download and compare?

Image 5256 looks much better. The other two still appear to be out of focus. Moving birds are tough.

I use a monopod as much as possible, except for birds in flight. I have a bit of tremor in my hands so even with in body or in lens stabilization I usually need support with focal lengths greater than about 135 mm full frame equivalent

I don’t know of any raw examples from your camera model but the review I linked earlier has a sample gallery and I can see noise in the sky in the images with blue sky - and those were are ISO 100 and 200.

The first two shots you had were at ISO 800 and 1/4000 second. You could have probably shot at ISO 200 and 1/1000 and if on a monopod maybe ISO 100 and 1/500 since the birds were perched.

Thanks. I have a better idea now and have marked your response as the answer. For comparison, I am looking for a full RAW file from any camera+lens combination - wildlife with a telephoto lens. Just so I know what to look for when reviewing my photos

If you visit the "Nature and Wildlife Photography" forum, you'll find plenty of quality bird and bird in-flight photography. The folks there can also provide tips on camera and autofocus settings for this type of photography.

If you use the forum's search tool to search "canon t3i bird photography settings" you may find some posts with useful information, tips and sample photos directly related to your gear.

Good luck.

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Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
http://www.billferris.photoshelter.com

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Ellinor William Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: Noise in the Photo or monitor issue? Please help

The screen could not be the problem, as I can see the same issue on mine. The issue would be the camera and the setting. As socalangler have pointed out the issue, you need to fix the ISO and autofocus.
However, you can use a photo repair tool to fix your images with good quality.

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