The end?

Pap38 wrote:

" The iPhone 13 Pro takes better pictures"

yea right. In your dreams perhaps. I suppose if you or someone like you prefer to believe this it justifies your purchase. Good for you!

My GX7II can't be matched by any over priced phone!

16 MP, 24 MP, 30 MP, 32 MP all producing real raw files produce higher quality images than 12 MP fake RAW phone is ever capable of.

Even SX 60.

RLight wrote:

Has the PowerShot lineup reached the end as we know it? Consider:

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1. The iPhone 13 Pro takes better pictures than all but the G1X Mark III in terms of both quality and versatility. Not even mentioning video...

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2. Canon doesn't have a PDAF on-chip AF system ala Sony. It's either DPAF or CDAF. Given the recent G5X II using the latest non-PDAF 1" sensor, stacked-BSI at that, and the SX70, SX740 also use latest BSI sensors also with latest DIGIC8, and, the G7X III uses the latest DIGIC8 and stacked 1", there's really no-where to go. DIGICX "eats" too much power for a smaller platform. There's now nothing to refresh on either the SX70, SX740, G5X II or G7X III, unless, Canon is considering using their latest stacked sensor fabs for some smaller chips and doing a limited DPAF run. But, for what audience? Perhaps DPAF for the G7X IV and the vloggers? That's about all I can think of.

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3. The G3X "bridge" camera series is retired, unofficially.

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4. That just leaves the possibility of a G9X III ala DIGIC8 and stacked CMOS refresh, but is unlikely due to price. And the G1X Mark IV. The problem with the latter, is there a market big enough to produce it at a price point viable for both bringing to market, and profitability?

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I think Canon may double down on some at-home tech, possibly a fixed lens, say 35mm offering perhaps, but the M200/M6II + 22 / RP + RF 35 already has that covered.

.

It really took me back to realize this may be it folks. Whatever plans Canon has at this point, that they think they can make money off of, are it, if there's any left. It's a moment for pause and reflection where things have come, and now gone.

.

It's making more sense now perhaps why Canon is rallying around the RF mount, and even ignoring the M mount. It's either the time to go big or go home, or, pretty close to it.

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Any thoughts from the peanut gallery? What's left of it that is. That too... There's few of us left, that the smartphone hasn't claimed.

The Japanese manufacturers fail to grasp what people really want in their cameras 📷

people simply cannot comprehend why their iPhones manage HDR very well and automatically

While their cameras produce crappy results

Fortunately for the camera manufacturers, phone cameras do not yet have EVF's embedded, for better control of framing, especially in bright situations.

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

I saw this thread previously and just read the recent posts.

Like RLight and others I doubt Canon (and Sony) will put more dollars and engineering into compacts. Maybe, but not likely.

That said I use my iPhone 13 PRO Max for almost everything.

Having my phone with always me the dynamic range in any lighting plus Apps like Snapseed and Apple's built in Photos App and picture styles simply works for this lazy old guy LOL......

I've done two trips to Fiji and the Red Sea / Egypt using my iPhone in an underwater housing too.......

I did buy (at an incredible price used) a  Sony RX100 VII for the extra reach and incredible AF last year to use on a safari. Other folks hauled medium ILC mirrorless and SLRs but were astounded by the pictures produced all while traveling light. I took my Canon G7X II too and got a few really nice shots with it but the viewfinder on the Sony RX100 VII helped in some lighting conditions.

After that trip and using both compacts snorkeling with whales in Moorea' I sold the Sony mainly because the price I sold it for was higher than what I paid. Plus I hated the menus

I still have my G7X II and Canon white balance and easier menus (being a decades old Canon shooter)  I can fly the device blindfolded.

The G7X II underwater white balance mode (something they took away from teh G7X III and I think G5XII is great shooting underwater pics. I shoot at lowest ISO in bright tropical conditions and the files are plenty big if I want to print anything.

I'll keep using my G7X II until it dies, mostly underwater and the occasional grandkids pics. It's small enough to take with my iPhone and I can pop the card out, input a shot to two to my iPhone, edit with Snapseed to polish images up and post anywhere there's a Wifi connection. The ease of using both devices works for me.

As RLight stated I'd be surprised if Canon and Sony put any more $$$$ into compacts. I'd love a G7X IV with PDAF autofocus equal to Sony's AF capability but not likely.......

Just one old guy's opinion!

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech. And that means more expensive. Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech. And that means more expensive. Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

Retro is a big market, I think that digital Canonet would be a huge seller and it could be made with tech that Canon already has like the 24 MP APS-C sensor and the 22/2.0 lens for instance.

KEG wrote:

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech. And that means more expensive. Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

Retro is a big market, I think that digital Canonet would be a huge seller and it could be made with tech that Canon already has like the 24 MP APS-C sensor and the 22/2.0 lens for instance.

That would be going against Fuji with the retro design. I doubt that would happen. Nikon tried it with their Z fc and don't know how it's going. They don't have matching lens designs for it. Neither do Canon if they release such a camera. Although I would like to see it happen. But unlikely.

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech. And that means more expensive. Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

Retro is a big market, I think that digital Canonet would be a huge seller and it could be made with tech that Canon already has like the 24 MP APS-C sensor and the 22/2.0 lens for instance.

That would be going against Fuji with the retro design. I doubt that would happen. Nikon tried it with their Z fc and don't know how it's going. They don't have matching lens designs for it. Neither do Canon if they release such a camera. Although I would like to see it happen. But unlikely.

Canon EF-M 22/2.0 exists.

I am basically talking about Powershot version of EOS M200 with EF-M 22/2.0 non removable and with leaf shutter.

KEG wrote:

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech. And that means more expensive. Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

Retro is a big market, I think that digital Canonet would be a huge seller and it could be made with tech that Canon already has like the 24 MP APS-C sensor and the 22/2.0 lens for instance.

That would be going against Fuji with the retro design. I doubt that would happen. Nikon tried it with their Z fc and don't know how it's going. They don't have matching lens designs for it. Neither do Canon if they release such a camera. Although I would like to see it happen. But unlikely.

Canon EF-M 22/2.0 exists.

I am basically talking about Powershot version of EOS M200 with EF-M 22/2.0 non removable and with leaf shutter.

I know it does exist. But you mentioned Canonet and the 22m f2 with its design wouldn't really look good on a Canonet style body. But a fixed prime lens Powershot that would look close to the m200 with 22mm is a desirable thing indeed. Leaf shutter and nd filter as most premium fixed lens cameras have those.

Chris 222 wrote:

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech.

Nah, they just need to implement some small but important upgrades (the types enthusiasts like us have been asking for years, and contrary to forums lore, most of those cost little to nothing in R&D) and then, simply slap on the latest marketing BS just like phone makers do: AI, HDDDDDDR, 3D, 4D, 5D, 5G, and my favorite, the entirely idiotic "computational" label.

And that means more expensive.

Nope.

Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

You'd be surprised. I was talking not long ago with an old friend who works in sensors development, and he told me that they can make pretty much anything that's desired, and at excellent price points. The problem here is with cam companies that are simply too shy and stuck in their old ways.

Anyhow, I often agree with your posts but here I would have to agree with KEG. Heck, it's not an accident if more and more younsters with the latest slabs from Apple and Google beg me to try my cams!

Gen Z is greatly into stuff that is almost older than a gen X like me.

also I think people are starting to realize that they actually want to own their data.

that is something the camera manufacturers can actually guarantee and no smartphone manufacturer can.

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Chris
Links to a few resources I published here to help my fellow photographers:
R1: BEST BACKPACK / RUCKSACK FOR HIKING PHOTOGRAPHERS (2021)
R2: Most versatile ICU (camera insert) for backpacks and other bags
R3: How to make your own custom dividers for any photo bag or ICU (Internal Camera Unit)
R4: Side bags, crash-proof enclosures, backpack mods and other DIY projects by creative photographers
R5: Reviewed: Cosyspeed mini-pouch, hand strap, waist / sling bag, powerbank
R6: Best carry on wheeled backpack you've never heard of

Chris 222 wrote:

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech.

Nah, they just need to implement some small but important upgrades (the types enthusiasts like us have been asking for years, and contrary to forums lore, most of those cost little to nothing in R&D) and then, simply slap on the latest marketing BS just like phone makers do: AI, HDDDDDDR, 3D, 4D, 5D, 5G, and my favorite, the entirely idiotic "computational" label.

And that means more expensive.

Nope.

Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

You'd be surprised. I was talking not long ago with an old friend who works in sensors development, and he told me that they can make pretty much anything that's desired, and at excellent price points. The problem here is with cam companies that are simply too shy and stuck in their old ways.

Most importantly, manufacturers will stretch those technological evolutions over time as much as they can to maximise profits. And laziness could be part of it as well.

Just like the first iPhone released with no 3G, no camera autofocus and many features missing in OS while those were present elsewhere. But Apple could do that because it had revolutionised the touchscreen experience at the time and it could afford to offer those features in subsequent models as updates.

Anyhow, I often agree with your posts but here I would have to agree with KEG. Heck, it's not an accident if more and more younsters with the latest slabs from Apple and Google beg me to try my cams!

Chris 222 wrote:

Swerky wrote:

KEG wrote:

I feel we are on the verge of the resurgence of the digital camera.

Just look around, you have people buying LPs and turn tables, CDs and CD players, film cameras and I have even heard that VHS has dedicated followers.

So it is kind of logical that the next thing that people want to buy is the simple and user-friendly digital compact camera.

In the case you presented it is about using existing products and technology. But with cameras, companies can't just keep releasing the same stuff they have been manufacturing so far. They need to introduce new tech.

Nah, they just need to implement some small but important upgrades (the types enthusiasts like us have been asking for years, and contrary to forums lore, most of those cost little to nothing in R&D) and then, simply slap on the latest marketing BS just like phone makers do: AI, HDDDDDDR, 3D, 4D, 5D, 5G, and my favorite, the entirely idiotic "computational" label.

And that means more expensive.

Nope.

Doesn't really go with smaller sensor cameras that are supposed to be affordable. The last 1" sensor compacts have been released in 2019 by both Canon and Sony. How much can they improve on those to validate further releases and see demand?

You'd be surprised. I was talking not long ago with an old friend who works in sensors development, and he told me that they can make pretty much anything that's desired, and at excellent price points. The problem here is with cam companies that are simply too shy and stuck in their old ways.

Anyhow, I often agree with your posts but here I would have to agree with KEG. Heck, it's not an accident if more and more younsters with the latest slabs from Apple and Google beg me to try my cams!

👍 Agree 100%

KEG wrote:

Gen Z is greatly into stuff that is almost older than a gen X like me.

The Gen Z folks do have a passion for the old, and interchangeable lens cameras. I've  watched that passion fizzle due to largely economic reasons. Film is making a comeback, oddly.

.

Funny someone dug this post up of mine, been a while. Seems to have come true on all counts, sadly.

.

Canon might do one more G, they also might not. G7X IV or G1X IV says the new camera.

My 2 cents... M6 II meets a G1X III makes the most sense (slap a G1X III lens on a M6 II body, weather seal it, pop-up EVF would be nice if they can manage it with weather sealing). Doesn't compete with the R; they could slap DIGIC X in it and it's got the same 4K as the R7.

I'd buy it.

picktherighttoolforthejob wrote:

...from earlier in this thread:

DIGICX I've heard is a dual DIGIC8, and thus twice the potential peak power draw. PowerShots use smaller batteries. That doesn't work so well obviously.

Rlight, your thread here really stands the test of time--talk of battery life, DIGIC8 vs DIGICX etc. is a worthy discussion.

I'm considering a small zoom and naturally tend to think of Canon first.

If Canon were to build and sell a successor to the 740 today...I wonder what it would look like, what its specs would be...and how well it would sell.

Great thread...why I read DPR!

Turns out they can throw a DIGICX into a body with an LP-E17 (R10), so it's possible they throw a DIGIC X together into a M6 II body. Slap the G1X III lens on it. It can be done. Will they? Maybe. $1299, starting price though... In this market? Tough.

I doubt we'll see DIGICX in a G7X form factor, though. Heat needs to go somewhere, needs power, too. I think what I'm describing is the most likely thing, if, it comes to pass.

The big players of macroeconomics are at play now, this may all be mute as inflation is tapping discretionary spending for most of late.

Thinking about this, it may be a M50 II / R10 sensor; they probably won't throw an IBIS sensor in that small a form factor, especially when they already have an IS lens in mind. The could do a different lens, but that's more cost to produce. That said, just having access to UHS-II SD, and DIGIC X AF, on a G1X III, with R10 4K, that's not a bad gig at all. However, it does compete with the R10 market segment to a degree. Canon-balism, is something Canon is keen to avoid right about now. We'll see. I don't see a path forward for the G7X III though, without a APS-C sensor from Canon that is (DPAF, 4K for those vloggers). This marries both the G7X and G1X segments into a single body... And provides a portable solution, which the R10, and even the R100 coming, isn't (RF-S lenses are too big, still; and M6 II + 15-45 is much larger than a G1X III; the RF flange is even deeper making the possible R100 + RF 18-45, larger than that). The R10 itself though, is so similar to this, not sure I see it happening. Similar price point, options, and only a bit smaller. Dunno folks.

picktherighttoolforthejob wrote:

RLight wrote:

Chris 222 wrote:

Well, it's clearly not the end of vague, click-bait thread titles at DPR...

This is a gear forum; for effective purposes, expect no new PowerShots, except the gimmick pick cameras that share the PowerShot name. I’d call that the end.

I’m not suggesting PowerShots are defunct, not yet anyways, the models we have now will be supported in parts for a few years and have effectiveness for some time to come as well. But for a forum that largely revolves around new gear, there isn’t, and won’t be new releases. For me it was a lightbulb moment when I realized the clickbait folks doom and gloom event has finally arrived.

Now the title was meant to both draw a reaction, and is a form of expression for myself. I almost didn’t start this thread, but, sometimes I just do it anyways. Other times I hold my peace. Apologies my expression here offended you. I’m trying to wrap my head around it myself and having others chime in helps.

Wish Canon could’ve done another crop sensor leaf-shutter offering with weather sealing though. I’m shedding a emotional tear over here if you will. There’s just a perfect storm of smart phone tech, Covid shortages, and Canon refusing to release things that compete with itself in addition to market conditions. The reality is what we got is it. Moving on or staying for a while is all we got.

Aside from your disgust at the thread, do you have any constructive thoughts to add?

Its very telling when even Sony has only released a vlogging RX100 in recent events. And likewise, Canon updated the G7x III firmware, but that’s it. In Camera makers eyes, that’s all that’s left of the market appparently.

Your response is spot-on.

I'm perusing the thread now...for a specific reason I'm considering the Canon 740 (the most recent Powershot of that ilk, I think).

Have you shot with it?

No, but on paper, it should hold up.