EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Eddie Rizk Senior Member • Posts: 1,222
Re: Just because you can...
3

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

Eddie Rizk wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

higheronymous wrote:

I don't understand people who are so vehemently pro iPhone. Perhaps they enjoy living in a fantasy world where the details are all filled in by a computer program. Now, don't get me wrong, the iPhone is a fine once in awhile camera but I would actually appreciate it more if it had less of the digital BS in it. I guess that is something we'll never get because of the opinions of all the "experts" on this god awful planet. Lets just pray to the lord Jesus that Canon does not head down this route too far and we continue to get real photographic equipment and not pseudo reality BS.

Humans operate on narratives that they tell themselves about the world and their place in it. We have an ongoing story in our head, and we are the star. Making compromises or acknowledging the truth about our standards can be very unpleasant because then it's almost like we're not living our best life or just making the best, most admirable decisions.

So when a device like a smartphone comes along that is with us always and is so incredibly useful and is also incredibly expensive, it's easy to tell ourselves a story about that device that is....not a lie necessarily, but an exaggeration. So rather than admitting to ourselves that we really don't care about flexibility, detail, carrying around a bulky item, learning about a complex process like photography, and all of the other inconveniences that a hobby like photography entails, we instead tell ourselves that this tool is perfectly in line with our desires.

Which so may are. That's why we buy them.

You purchase a phone specifically so you'll have a camera with you at all times? I suspect that, like myself, you find that to be a very nice added benefit of the smartphone, but its primary selling points are having a telephone with you where you go and also having access to the internet or data/apps or entertainment via its cellular data network access. I enjoy having a decent camera on my phone, but if it didn't have a camera I'd still own it. Others' mileage may vary.

Correct.  The smart phone is the Swiss Army Knife of electronic tools.  It does everything but is not the best at anything.

Different tools are best for different situations

Yes, and tools that are simply attached to something you would have purchased anyway have something going for them that a typical tool doesn't have: forced convenience. Convenient because it's with you everyone you go, and forced because it comes attached to your phone, that you would have purchased anyway, whether you need it or not, whether you like it or not.

True, but the better camera is half of the reason to upgrade.

So while some people truly are satisfied with phone photograph

, as I am now for those times that I don't carry a dedicated camera,

And if I had a good camera attached to my shoe I'd probably find uses for it when I didn't think to grab my G7XII or R before I left the house, but only because it is attached to a necessity and because all shoes in this example always have cameras installed whether I want to pay for them or not. Very, very often convenience can have a far outsized influence on what people use and when they use it.

No doubt.

y and freely admit they aren't terribly concerned with the technicalities of photography,

, particularly for small screen viewing, such as phones and smaller tablets,

And there's the real issue -- most photographs are consumed as a documentary method and not much else. The simple fact that an image exists is the point and not as a piece of art. Before Facebook and smartphones did people take very many pictures of their dinner? Selfies? Much of the new demand for photography is an entirely genre, a whole new reason, for taking pictures which means they only exist because of opportunity (a camera with you always) and a manufactured demand (sharing relatively trivial daily experiences on social media....which is still a totally valid form of communication).

others choose to lower their standards and come up with justifications for it.

Or take the same pictures with a dedicated camera as before AND add new photos that they simply missed before.

Missed or just weren't important enough to bother with and never would have taken?

They wouldn't have been taken, because I wouldn't have had a camera with me.  Most are frivolous, but some are important memories.  How often do you wish you had your camera with you but don't?

Still, if convenience motivates people to take more pictures then I'm all for it.

Pure documentation photos are well covered by the phone, even my 12 PM. The ultra wide angle and night mode allow me to document any room or exterior view of any real estate I tour. (That does actually replace some use of the real camera.)

Promotional shots for MLS or professional brochures? No. Not at all. Clients want quality and sometimes print photos of their better properties. Customers (as in potential buyers) will look at them on bigger screens and often zoom in to examine details.

Snap shots of people in interesting situations are now, for me, acceptable. I typically share such shots online or by text.

Portraits or photos of significant events? No. Not at all. Those might get printed or viewed on computer and evaluated as real photos.

This is where the line blurs. I've had plenty of people ask me for advice on camera buying. I tell them and they balk at the suggestion they might have to spend $800 for a good camera and lens. Years later when their baby is dancing in a recital or at some function where it's not blazing bright sunlight they ask "why is this all blurry or so noise or not in focus" to which I respond "because you spent $300 on a camera that is physically incapable of doing what you're asking of it." And occasionally "remember when I said you needed to spend a little more and you didn't want to? I told you that easy shots are one thing, but if you ever need to get a shot like X Y Z, then you'll wish you'd spent the money on a good camera."

I have the same experience.  They all ask me to come take pictures for them.  That's good.  It gets me invited to many interesting events.

The phone can capture the beauty of a scene, a sunset, or a creative composition. The caller can then show others, who will be impressed as long as they are not blowing it up big.

I think "show others, who will be impressed" indicates the social media leaning of the tool. That's fine, but it's not a situation where photography or art is the point.

Where photography or art is the point, like you, I use a real camera.

Only phone photos taken in the bright light with Pro RAW and computer processing will look good in larger prints or screens. I'm not going to do all of that with a phone picture.

As you shouldn't. The trick is convincing others what phones can and can't do, what they are and are not good at. That's the point where it's very difficult to overcome the narrative of justification so many people refuse to acknowledge.

I think you and I are saying much the same thing.  I am just a little more positive about it.

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Eddie Rizk
The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.
Formerly "Ed Rizk"
My email was hacked and unrecoverable along with all associated accounts, so I got permission to create a new one.

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Thomas A Anderson Senior Member • Posts: 1,204
Re: Just because you can...

Eddie Rizk wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

Eddie Rizk wrote:

Thomas A Anderson wrote:

higheronymous wrote:

I don't understand people who are so vehemently pro iPhone. Perhaps they enjoy living in a fantasy world where the details are all filled in by a computer program. Now, don't get me wrong, the iPhone is a fine once in awhile camera but I would actually appreciate it more if it had less of the digital BS in it. I guess that is something we'll never get because of the opinions of all the "experts" on this god awful planet. Lets just pray to the lord Jesus that Canon does not head down this route too far and we continue to get real photographic equipment and not pseudo reality BS.

Humans operate on narratives that they tell themselves about the world and their place in it. We have an ongoing story in our head, and we are the star. Making compromises or acknowledging the truth about our standards can be very unpleasant because then it's almost like we're not living our best life or just making the best, most admirable decisions.

So when a device like a smartphone comes along that is with us always and is so incredibly useful and is also incredibly expensive, it's easy to tell ourselves a story about that device that is....not a lie necessarily, but an exaggeration. So rather than admitting to ourselves that we really don't care about flexibility, detail, carrying around a bulky item, learning about a complex process like photography, and all of the other inconveniences that a hobby like photography entails, we instead tell ourselves that this tool is perfectly in line with our desires.

Which so may are. That's why we buy them.

You purchase a phone specifically so you'll have a camera with you at all times? I suspect that, like myself, you find that to be a very nice added benefit of the smartphone, but its primary selling points are having a telephone with you where you go and also having access to the internet or data/apps or entertainment via its cellular data network access. I enjoy having a decent camera on my phone, but if it didn't have a camera I'd still own it. Others' mileage may vary.

Correct. The smart phone is the Swiss Army Knife of electronic tools. It does everything but is not the best at anything.

Different tools are best for different situations

Yes, and tools that are simply attached to something you would have purchased anyway have something going for them that a typical tool doesn't have: forced convenience. Convenient because it's with you everyone you go, and forced because it comes attached to your phone, that you would have purchased anyway, whether you need it or not, whether you like it or not.

True, but the better camera is half of the reason to upgrade.

So while some people truly are satisfied with phone photograph

, as I am now for those times that I don't carry a dedicated camera,

And if I had a good camera attached to my shoe I'd probably find uses for it when I didn't think to grab my G7XII or R before I left the house, but only because it is attached to a necessity and because all shoes in this example always have cameras installed whether I want to pay for them or not. Very, very often convenience can have a far outsized influence on what people use and when they use it.

No doubt.

y and freely admit they aren't terribly concerned with the technicalities of photography,

, particularly for small screen viewing, such as phones and smaller tablets,

And there's the real issue -- most photographs are consumed as a documentary method and not much else. The simple fact that an image exists is the point and not as a piece of art. Before Facebook and smartphones did people take very many pictures of their dinner? Selfies? Much of the new demand for photography is an entirely genre, a whole new reason, for taking pictures which means they only exist because of opportunity (a camera with you always) and a manufactured demand (sharing relatively trivial daily experiences on social media....which is still a totally valid form of communication).

others choose to lower their standards and come up with justifications for it.

Or take the same pictures with a dedicated camera as before AND add new photos that they simply missed before.

Missed or just weren't important enough to bother with and never would have taken?

They wouldn't have been taken, because I wouldn't have had a camera with me. Most are frivolous, but some are important memories. How often do you wish you had your camera with you but don't?

Still, if convenience motivates people to take more pictures then I'm all for it.

Pure documentation photos are well covered by the phone, even my 12 PM. The ultra wide angle and night mode allow me to document any room or exterior view of any real estate I tour. (That does actually replace some use of the real camera.)

Promotional shots for MLS or professional brochures? No. Not at all. Clients want quality and sometimes print photos of their better properties. Customers (as in potential buyers) will look at them on bigger screens and often zoom in to examine details.

Snap shots of people in interesting situations are now, for me, acceptable. I typically share such shots online or by text.

Portraits or photos of significant events? No. Not at all. Those might get printed or viewed on computer and evaluated as real photos.

This is where the line blurs. I've had plenty of people ask me for advice on camera buying. I tell them and they balk at the suggestion they might have to spend $800 for a good camera and lens. Years later when their baby is dancing in a recital or at some function where it's not blazing bright sunlight they ask "why is this all blurry or so noise or not in focus" to which I respond "because you spent $300 on a camera that is physically incapable of doing what you're asking of it." And occasionally "remember when I said you needed to spend a little more and you didn't want to? I told you that easy shots are one thing, but if you ever need to get a shot like X Y Z, then you'll wish you'd spent the money on a good camera."

I have the same experience. They all ask me to come take pictures for them. That's good. It gets me invited to many interesting events.

The phone can capture the beauty of a scene, a sunset, or a creative composition. The caller can then show others, who will be impressed as long as they are not blowing it up big.

I think "show others, who will be impressed" indicates the social media leaning of the tool. That's fine, but it's not a situation where photography or art is the point.

Where photography or art is the point, like you, I use a real camera.

Only phone photos taken in the bright light with Pro RAW and computer processing will look good in larger prints or screens. I'm not going to do all of that with a phone picture.

As you shouldn't. The trick is convincing others what phones can and can't do, what they are and are not good at. That's the point where it's very difficult to overcome the narrative of justification so many people refuse to acknowledge.

I think you and I are saying much the same thing. I am just a little more positive about it.

Absolutely agree. And I do admit, I have a fairly strong aversion to exaggeration and repetition. Those just happen to be two things that smartphone photography commenters tend to do, exaggerate and repeat.

I remember the day I first saw an iPhone in person for the first time. It was very cool to see a handheld device that displayed color images and also captured them. I was, quite frankly, jealous that my cousin had one and I didn't. A couple of years later my work started taking me away from home quite often, and thus I found the perfect excuse to purchase an iPhone 3GS. Around the same time the G1X came out and several years later the G7XII came out.

It was those two cameras that transformed the convenience I experienced when shooting photography while also having a level of quality that I wanted access to 100% of the time. Events that offered obvious opportunity for shooting warranted packing up the R, going out and about and feeling like I might just decide to find some pictures to shoot or stumble upon them were easy now with the G1X and later the G7XII, and going for a walk around the block I have my phone.

So long story short, yes there are times I really wish I had my R with me but only have my phone. They are exceedingly rare.....like literally a full length double rainbow randomly pops up while my wife and I are on our daily walk. And if I want to take a picture of my pizza or my cocktail or friends and family, then it certainly is great to always have the phone camera.

But what I find bothersome is people who overstate how useful phone cameras are in what appears to be an obvious effort to make themselves feel better about not carrying around a standalone camera. It also bothers me that people who have only ever shot with phones and have zero idea of what a proper camera can do wildly exaggerate what their phone can do....and especially what computational photography can do.

So while I'll never fault someone for choosing the tool that is best for them, I will point out when it appears they aren't accurately evaluating the reality of their situation. I have no desire to rain on any parades, but just like when I offer advice to people shopping for a camera, I always want to offer levelheaded and realistic evaluations of tools. Excitement, of course, is the name of the game when it comes to technology publications whether warranted or manufactured.

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Sid911 Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

Larawanista wrote:

Due to restrictions in the US, some of the best phones in Asia never make it to your market. Otherwise, the iPhone 13 would be just another release of a new phone model.

In fact, Apple is still on catch up mode when it comes to smartphone photography. That said, yes the iPhone 13 is their best ever, and rightly so.

Which Asian phones are you talking about? Its not the hardware where the magic lies - its the computational photography that's making all the difference. Asserting that asian manufacturers are better than Apple (or Google) at computational photography is ..wishful thinking!

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Larawanista
Larawanista Veteran Member • Posts: 4,736
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)
2

Sid911 wrote:

Larawanista wrote:

Due to restrictions in the US, some of the best phones in Asia never make it to your market. Otherwise, the iPhone 13 would be just another release of a new phone model.

In fact, Apple is still on catch up mode when it comes to smartphone photography. That said, yes the iPhone 13 is their best ever, and rightly so.

Which Asian phones are you talking about? Its not the hardware where the magic lies - its the computational photography that's making all the difference. Asserting that asian manufacturers are better than Apple (or Google) at computational photography is ..wishful thinking!

Computational vs superior hardware. Like in any device with a lens and sensor, regardless of sensor size, the software cannot do all the heavy lifting.

Where have you been? All these devices, including the topnotch Canon and Nikon cameras, are made in Asia for decades now. And you think the iPhone reigns supreme just because you cannot purchase better products? 🤣🤣🤣

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CWaterston
CWaterston Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)
1

Marco Nero wrote:

The iPhone 13 Pro won't likely replace my EOS R6, even after watching the video above. But I may be close to retiring my everyday carry of the EOS M6 camera system I use... which is light and portable yet still an inconvenience.

Absolutely. I only use a larger camera for controlled shooting or to photograph places that are close by geographically.

I've gone through the period of lugging heavy gear around the world with me. It's no fun, and I'm glad I've outgrown that stage. Now when I see tourists toting a heavy DSLR rig looking for "a shot," I feel doubly happy that I'm no longer doing that, not only because I don't have the weight to carry but also because I feel that I'm more in the moment, with my companion, and not distracted by trying to justify the weight of my gear by taking pictures.

The irony is that when I walk around trying to "capture" images, I'm actually capturing less of the overall experience of traveling because I am weighed down with gear. I don't like it all.

Oh, and also, the iPhone 13 Pro or whatever is not the game changer that should prompt this thought process in you. Great pictures have been made with devices far less capable than a 13 Pro. Great photography is often not about gear at all.

Dlee13
Dlee13 Contributing Member • Posts: 643
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

For me personally a smartphone could never replace my R6 or even my M50 II. I have an iPhone XS Max and my girlfriend has the iPhone 12 Pro Max and when you shoot a proper RAW/DNG the images fall apart really easy with even slight editing. The ProRaw Apple offers is pretty much a bracketed images with all their changes like NR baked in then saved as a RAW file.

As everyone says you can capture great images with ANY camera but if you want something that can capture them with great technical quality then an ILC is still and will be the winner for a long time.

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CWaterston
CWaterston Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)
Dave Seeley Senior Member • Posts: 1,757
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

Thanks Marco for doing this comparison.  Great to hear it from someone I trust.  I sold off my M system a year ago, and am converted to R5 w my R as a backup.  As a result, my R is now my travel cam, so It'd be great to know I can leave that home for friends and family visits.  I look forward to your future assessment.

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CWaterston
CWaterston Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

Dlee13 wrote:

For me personally a smartphone could never replace my R6 or even my M50 II. I have an iPhone XS Max and my girlfriend has the iPhone 12 Pro Max and when you shoot a proper RAW/DNG the images fall apart really easy with even slight editing. The ProRaw Apple offers is pretty much a bracketed images with all their changes like NR baked in then saved as a RAW file.

As everyone says you can capture great images with ANY camera but if you want something that can capture them with great technical quality then an ILC is still and will be the winner for a long time.

Oh, yes. I agree. I've seen those iPhone pics on the computer.

KEG
KEG Veteran Member • Posts: 4,026
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

Dlee13 wrote:

For me personally a smartphone could never replace my R6 or even my M50 II. I have an iPhone XS Max and my girlfriend has the iPhone 12 Pro Max and when you shoot a proper RAW/DNG the images fall apart really easy with even slight editing. The ProRaw Apple offers is pretty much a bracketed images with all their changes like NR baked in then saved as a RAW file.

As everyone says you can capture great images with ANY camera but if you want something that can capture them with great technical quality then an ILC is still and will be the winner for a long time.

Even something like the RX100 will be a long time winner

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KEG

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KEG
KEG Veteran Member • Posts: 4,026
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

Dave Seeley wrote:

Thanks Marco for doing this comparison. Great to hear it from someone I trust. I sold off my M system a year ago, and am converted to R5 w my R as a backup. As a result, my R is now my travel cam, so It'd be great to know I can leave that home for friends and family visits. I look forward to your future assessment.

I am fairly sure that I can't and I really sure that he didn't prove anything else.

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KEG

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Marco Nero
OP Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 7,430
To: Dave Seeley - re: ProCam for iPhone 13 Pro
1

Dave Seeley wrote:

Thanks Marco for doing this comparison. Great to hear it from someone I trust. I sold off my M system a year ago, and am converted to R5 w my R as a backup. As a result, my R is now my travel cam, so It'd be great to know I can leave that home for friends and family visits. I look forward to your future assessment.

Hey Dave,
There's been some concern that the iPhone 13 cameras aren't always delivering perfect shots and I've sometimes seen this myself. It's somewhat rare but it does indeed happen. It appears to be computational in nature.
.
As a result, I've just been testing the good old 'ProCam' App on the new iPhone. It has updated itself after I migrated the App to my new phone from the older one and it recognizes all the new features of the new phone. The Auto Focus and image output from this App is more reliable than the images straight from the native Apple Camera App. If I have time I'll put up a thread on this subject shortly but the difference in performance and image quality is greatly improved if/when using this App. I'm still experimenting with the iPhone 13 Pro cameras but it's good to know that this App fills in any shortcomings from the Apple Camera App. I just ran some side-by-side experiments here in very low light and the differences between images captured by the Camera App and the ProCam App were notably varied. All the shots from the ProCam were very sharp but not oversharpened. This suggests that any hint of unreliability from the native App can be resolved easily with an update from Apple. The iPhone 13 Pro camera module generally performs quite well on its own but occasionally generates a slightly softer image without cause or reason.
.
A day in the city with the native Camera App yielded good results in general with most images being decent enough for me to consider leaving my cameras at home in future.

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Regards,
Marco Nero.

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Dlee13
Dlee13 Contributing Member • Posts: 643
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)
1

CWaterston wrote:

Dlee13 wrote:

For me personally a smartphone could never replace my R6 or even my M50 II. I have an iPhone XS Max and my girlfriend has the iPhone 12 Pro Max and when you shoot a proper RAW/DNG the images fall apart really easy with even slight editing. The ProRaw Apple offers is pretty much a bracketed images with all their changes like NR baked in then saved as a RAW file.

As everyone says you can capture great images with ANY camera but if you want something that can capture them with great technical quality then an ILC is still and will be the winner for a long time.

Oh, yes. I agree. I've seen those iPhone pics on the computer.

They often don’t look as nice when on a decent sized display.

KEG wrote:

Dlee13 wrote:

For me personally a smartphone could never replace my R6 or even my M50 II. I have an iPhone XS Max and my girlfriend has the iPhone 12 Pro Max and when you shoot a proper RAW/DNG the images fall apart really easy with even slight editing. The ProRaw Apple offers is pretty much a bracketed images with all their changes like NR baked in then saved as a RAW file.

As everyone says you can capture great images with ANY camera but if you want something that can capture them with great technical quality then an ILC is still and will be the winner for a long time.

Even something like the RX100 will be a long time winner

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KEG

For sure! I’ve always been curious why camera makers haven’t looked at putting more computational power into their cameras and had different modes that could either utilize this and shoot pure JPEG or disable it and shoot pure RAW like normal. You’d get SOOC images like on a Smartphone but with much higher quality in terms of actually sharpness and DOF.

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AlgarvePhotography Forum Member • Posts: 96
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)
6

99.9% of people who take photos regularly couldn’t care less about the pixel-peeping debate and simply want a decent-looking image for sharing via social media. Smartphones do this adequately.

The iPhone 13 Pro is much better at this than earlier models and better than the 12 in low light.

The iPhone is absolutely not the leader when it comes to smartphone photography, despite what Apple and Americans want to think. HTC led the way years ago, Huawei and Samsung have had superior cameras since - the current S21 Ultra is every bit as competitive against the new iPhone with an improved S22 landing in February. 
That said, the Sony Pro model about to land with the 1” sensor could be a big evolution for smartphones. 
My R5 with 70-200 2.8 or 100-500 blows my iPhone 13 away for image quality, reach and fps. Indeed, all my lenses on that body beat the iPhone comfortably. Fantastic for those of us who want that. 
But we shouldn’t be snobbish and look down upon those who are happy with their smartphone photography; there are some truly excellent images taken by very good photographers on smartphones that are nicer to view than those produced by many folk using high-end dedicated camera systems. The Photographer still accounts for much of the end product.

Would I recommend an iPhone 13 Pro over and R6? Absolutely! I have friends for whom the abilities of the R6 are lost. They enjoy taking pictures. They love the composition aspect and want convenience over carrying and learning a dedicated system. They want to share on smaller screens and make small prints. For those photographers, smartphones are viable as being an option for their best tool. For those who want extra creativity, more control, larger image sizes, better solutions for harder to capture subjects etc and maximum quality then dedicated systems are best for them. 
I race MTB and road bikes at a good level, I train 3-5 hours a day but I welcome those on e-bikes and social cyclists equally; they want to ride, they enjoy riding - it is to be encouraged. Similarly, I welcome photographers not as serious as I am - and I imagine there are photographers far more serious about their hobby than me who are also focussed upon everyone enjoying the medium rather than wanting to belittle based upon kit choices and needs that are different to their own.

Bottom line: the iPhone 13 Pro can be a valid choice over an R6 for many people.

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CWaterston
CWaterston Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)
4

AlgarvePhotography wrote:

99.9% of people who take photos regularly couldn’t care less about the pixel-peeping debate and simply want a decent-looking image for sharing via social media. Smartphones do this adequately.

Would I recommend an iPhone 13 Pro over and R6? Absolutely! I have friends for whom the abilities of the R6 are lost. They enjoy taking pictures. They love the composition aspect and want convenience over carrying and learning a dedicated system. They want to share on smaller screens and make small prints. For those photographers, smartphones are viable as being an option for their best tool. For those who want extra creativity, more control, larger image sizes, better solutions for harder to capture subjects etc and maximum quality then dedicated systems are best for them.
Bottom line: the iPhone 13 Pro can be a valid choice over an R6 for many people.

Indeed. In fact, I'm quite sure that owners/admins of photography forums have seen their activity and membership drop precipitously over the past 10-15 years as hobbyists went from DSLRs to "good enough" cell phone cameras. I say "in fact" because I used to be an admin at a photography forum, so I saw this drop first-hand.

Even "serious" photographers, like me, eventually question the wisdom of lugging big systems around on vacation or other events where the cons of a big system get outweighed by the pros of a decent camera that you carry with you all the time. Remember the old saw "the best camera is the one you have with you"? There you go.

In any case, this topic does not lead to an either/or solution for serious photographers. Rather, it's both. Perhaps the biggest hurdle to get over for the person who has a lot of money and time invested in the big gear is the psychological pull of "hey, I invested all this money in equipment; I ought to be using it."

toosas
toosas Regular Member • Posts: 171
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

indeed, people wowing at what iphone and samsung can do this year when Huawei P30 Pro was capable of in 2019 - 5x optical, night time computational photography and more - producing computational long exposure shots in mid day (a bit like Olympus cameras)

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Marco Nero
OP Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 7,430
To grenow - Re: iPhone 13 Pro images (PICS)
1

grenow wrote:

Hi Marco, can I be the second to say: nice pizza!

My iPhone 13 Pro arrived a little earlier than promised, a couple of days ago.

Mine did too.  Quite a while ahead of the promised date with an initial 5 week delay due to demand, availability and backlog.  It's good that I spent some time to try to figure out how the new device operates compared to my older iPhone 6S.

I've not had much chance to play with the camera yet, but I like what I'm seeing. The screen on the thing is absolutely gorgeous, and a wonderful way to view images. Makes me hope that when Apple updates the big iMac with their own silicon next year it comes with the same wide gamut, smooth refresh look and feel.

That screen alone is worth the upgrade.  I was initially nervous about buying the Max version because I wasn't sure it would fit into my pocket and because I prefer to travel light with the smallest options possible.  Yet the longer battery life and larger display were what sold it for me.  After a week with the new iPhone 13 Pro Max, I'm comfortable with the size, the battery is absolutely incredible compared to my last phone and the screen and processor provide a great result.  Better speakers, water resistant (considerably so) and with a great set of cameras that produce attractive images.

I do use the Apple camera app most of the time, but I keep a few other image-making apps available. For a more traditional camera look and feel, with access to manual modes etc, I use ProCamera and Halide. Halide's developers really know what's going on under the hood, and their annual breakdown of the new cameras is always worth a read: https://lux.camera

I didn't expect my older legacy-version of ProCam to work on the iPhone 13 Pro Max but when I migrated the software from the old phone, it updated itself and works somewhat flawlessly with the iPhone 13.  The Macro ability is infinitely better and can be manually controlled for fine focus and I can shoot in TIF or RAW with it.  I am yet to discover if it shoots proper RAW or with Apple's new "ProRAW", which is clearly manipulated in some ways.

I'm also playing with a long exposure app called Even Longer. Worth looking for on the App Store.

I've seen the results from 'Even Longer' although I'm not sure I'll need it myself... but I did download 'Nocturne' which is free and works with most Smartphones and will produce pinpoint stars for Astrophotography.  It does leave a watermark in the corner with the Nocturne logo but that can be edited out in most cases with ease.

I'll update with more feedback when I've had a good session with the camera. Meanwhile here's another picture of the cat...

That's a nice shot that shows how simple it is to catch a decent image with this device.  My cats have long learned to avoid my cameras but strangely not my iPhones.  My wife also took a shot of me in an unflattering pose today when I dozed off in my chair with a sleeping black cat on my lap.  It's adorable as a photograph but far too embarrassing to share.  My main reason to upgrade my iPhone was because my older model (iPhone 6s) was supposed to lose Apple support this year (presumably with security updates etc) and my battery had been replaced once and was on the way out again.  The cool thing about the Pro Max model of the iPhone 13 is that it's only a tiny bit longer than my older iPhone yet it's about the length of the active display screen on the iPad Mini.
.
Whilst I've uncovered a couple of software shortcomings in the new iPhone 13 Pro cameras modules, they can be resolved by either using the ProCam App or by Apple releasing an update - like they did last week to control the automatic Macro lens switching scenario.  There's still the odd behavior where selecting the 77mm (3x) lens can trigger a lens-swap which in turn activates the digital zoom on the Wide Lens (1x) instead... which is unpleasant.  But again, that's easily resolved with a software tweak and the ProCam App seems to get around it.  The Super Macro is very useful.  And the Ultra Wide lens is appealing.  But the fake bokeh (synthetic background diffusion effect) is quite well done.  There's times when it's not perfect but I'm sure a lot of owners are happy with the way it works.  More importantly, the iPhone records both an unedited version and the final blurred image... so you get two pictures just in case you want to recombine elements or rescue something later.  Some images below that I took this week... including a couple from yesterday.
.

iPhone 13 Pro - A little home cooking with marinated chicken and salad.  That crazy 'Synthetic Bokeh' means I don't need to wax my arms.  It's not quite as convincing in this picture but it's going to be ideal for most folks who just want to pretend they own a DSLR with a wide aperture lens.

iPhone 13 Pro - Sydney Opera House - shot in ProRAW (DNG). 
iPhone 13 Pro - Fake Bokeh again - more convincing this time around - here's the scale of the diamond I wanted to see closer... it's barely 5mm long.
iPhone 13 Pro - Lighting that 0.5 carat diamond to view the laser-inscribed serial numbers on the side... which are are etched on the side of the diamond in a line thinner than a human hair.

iPhone 13 Pro - Macro (cropped) to show the serial number on the diamond... excuse the dust.  This is the narrow end of the diamond... which is barely a few mm across.

iPhone 13 Pro - Sydney Harbor Bridge shot in ProRAW.

iPhone 13 Pro - my 'middle' cat Quorra

iPhone 13 Pro - that fake bokeh is really convincing.

iPhone 13 Pro - They Sydney Queen Victoria building prior to sunset - shot in HEIC.

iPhone 13 Pro - This species of ant is just 1.5 mm long.  I guess Everyone Loves Halloween.

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Regards,
Marco Nero.

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Larawanista
Larawanista Veteran Member • Posts: 4,736
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

toosas wrote:

indeed, people wowing at what iphone and samsung can do this year when Huawei P30 Pro was capable of in 2019 - 5x optical, night time computational photography and more - producing computational long exposure shots in mid day (a bit like Olympus cameras)

Yep, we've been spoiled since the P30 Pro. Then the other flagship started to compete for the best camera long before the iPhone started finally to take decent photos.

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Dlee13
Dlee13 Contributing Member • Posts: 643
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

CWaterston wrote:

AlgarvePhotography wrote:

99.9% of people who take photos regularly couldn’t care less about the pixel-peeping debate and simply want a decent-looking image for sharing via social media. Smartphones do this adequately.

Would I recommend an iPhone 13 Pro over and R6? Absolutely! I have friends for whom the abilities of the R6 are lost. They enjoy taking pictures. They love the composition aspect and want convenience over carrying and learning a dedicated system. They want to share on smaller screens and make small prints. For those photographers, smartphones are viable as being an option for their best tool. For those who want extra creativity, more control, larger image sizes, better solutions for harder to capture subjects etc and maximum quality then dedicated systems are best for them.
Bottom line: the iPhone 13 Pro can be a valid choice over an R6 for many people.

Indeed. In fact, I'm quite sure that owners/admins of photography forums have seen their activity and membership drop precipitously over the past 10-15 years as hobbyists went from DSLRs to "good enough" cell phone cameras. I say "in fact" because I used to be an admin at a photography forum, so I saw this drop first-hand.

Even "serious" photographers, like me, eventually question the wisdom of lugging big systems around on vacation or other events where the cons of a big system get outweighed by the pros of a decent camera that you carry with you all the time. Remember the old saw "the best camera is the one you have with you"? There you go.

In any case, this topic does not lead to an either/or solution for serious photographers. Rather, it's both. Perhaps the biggest hurdle to get over for the person who has a lot of money and time invested in the big gear is the psychological pull of "hey, I invested all this money in equipment; I ought to be using it."

The drop in forum activity wouldn’t be from smartphones, it’s more just people prefer social media sites like Instagram and Twitter for posting images than using a forum. Most people on even sites like IG use ILC’s and not their phones.

Funny enough you often see people start out with a smartphone then eventually move to a ILC. Also comes down to shooting style, those who like SOOC JPEGs would obviously be more than happy with a Smartphone as they are pretty much at the same level as the old point and shoots but for those who want that higher technical quality will always lean to a proper ILC.

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Larawanista
Larawanista Veteran Member • Posts: 4,736
Re: EOS R6 Vs iPhone 13 Pro for Photography (PICS)

Dlee13 wrote:

CWaterston wrote:

AlgarvePhotography wrote:

99.9% of people who take photos regularly couldn’t care less about the pixel-peeping debate and simply want a decent-looking image for sharing via social media. Smartphones do this adequately.

Would I recommend an iPhone 13 Pro over and R6? Absolutely! I have friends for whom the abilities of the R6 are lost. They enjoy taking pictures. They love the composition aspect and want convenience over carrying and learning a dedicated system. They want to share on smaller screens and make small prints. For those photographers, smartphones are viable as being an option for their best tool. For those who want extra creativity, more control, larger image sizes, better solutions for harder to capture subjects etc and maximum quality then dedicated systems are best for them.
Bottom line: the iPhone 13 Pro can be a valid choice over an R6 for many people.

Indeed. In fact, I'm quite sure that owners/admins of photography forums have seen their activity and membership drop precipitously over the past 10-15 years as hobbyists went from DSLRs to "good enough" cell phone cameras. I say "in fact" because I used to be an admin at a photography forum, so I saw this drop first-hand.

Even "serious" photographers, like me, eventually question the wisdom of lugging big systems around on vacation or other events where the cons of a big system get outweighed by the pros of a decent camera that you carry with you all the time. Remember the old saw "the best camera is the one you have with you"? There you go.

In any case, this topic does not lead to an either/or solution for serious photographers. Rather, it's both. Perhaps the biggest hurdle to get over for the person who has a lot of money and time invested in the big gear is the psychological pull of "hey, I invested all this money in equipment; I ought to be using it."

The drop in forum activity wouldn’t be from smartphones, it’s more just people prefer social media sites like Instagram and Twitter for posting images than using a forum. Most people on even sites like IG use ILC’s and not their phones.

Funny enough you often see people start out with a smartphone then eventually move to a ILC. Also comes down to shooting style, those who like SOOC JPEGs would obviously be more than happy with a Smartphone as they are pretty much at the same level as the old point and shoots but for those who want that higher technical quality will always lean to a proper ILC.

That's so true. DPR should change its forum format, to allow a more interactive structure. I hope they devote resources for that. Even just a standard Gallery Feature on top of each forum, versus having to create a thread for it, will be neat.

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