History repeating itself in the market

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Phil A Martin
Phil A Martin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,811
Re: History repeating itself in the market

mamallama wrote:

Phil A Martin wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Phil A Martin wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

Manufacturers are chum-feeding smartphones to a frenzied populace they've hooked on an endless addiction cycle to social media.

Amidst the epidemic of selfies, mental health has never been poorer and the prevalence of body dysmorphia never been higher. It's not the photography, per se, that drives adoption, but rather the promise of more attention, regard, and recognition that the new device might garner.

And manufacturers are all too happy to feed this desperate and maladaptive quest for likes and validation with hyped promises.

But the devices always fall short--because that's what addiction is: you can never have enough. And so the cycle continues...

Smartphones have become a necessity in modern life more than an addiction . They have replaced telephones

They haven't replaced telephones, they are telephones.

, newspapers, computers, communication devices, television

You really think they have replaced televisions and you have sales figures proving this.

, map, etc. not to mention cameras.

Now you say they have replaced cameras, before you were saying they were cameras. Which is it?

The cell phone has also replaced the functions that your wallet was normally used for.

See I totally disagree with your ultimist position. They haven't replaced all the functions you've mentioned, they have simply become an additional portable tool to be used alongside PCs, TVs, Cameras etc.

My partner's son has a smartphone which he uses a lot but he also has his PC where he communicates and games with his friends, who are now scattered around the country in different universities.

I have a smartphone camera which I use on a regular basis but I still use cameras for serious photography. I've watched TV on my phone or tablet when travelling but I have a full size TV at home which I prefer. I also use my phone for music and radio but I prefer my Marantz stereo system for serious listening. And so do many other people.

Yes smartphones are handy little tools but they're not the be all and end all of everything.

None totally but in many cases, yes. Your examples prove it.

Only if you deny or don't know the meaning of the word "replaced".

My argument was that you were exaggerating the impact of the smart phone with your claim that it had "replaced" the functions mentioned above but now you admit that it's replaced "none totally", so it seems we agree.

"You are the one confused"

I see you need to resort to ad hominem abuse to prove your argument.

about what replaced means. You say they have replaced telephones yet I still have a landline telephone at my house.

You are making it up when you said I claimed “replaced the function “. I never claimed any such thing.

davidedric Veteran Member • Posts: 7,052
Re: Phones not very interesting to me, to buy or use.
1

yardcoyote wrote:

I have a smartphone. I find it incredibly useful, and at this point it is probably pretty much necessary-- to my work, my personal safety, my communication with others, and my entertainment. If something happened to it, I would have to replace it immediately. But that would be simply an expense, no more exciting than having the furnace repaired.

I feel absolutely no desire to upgrade it using my limited budget for personal indulgences. Its value to me is purely in what it can do, and as long as it continues to do it properly, I'm perfectly happy with it. I kept my last phone for almost 6 years, only replacing it when it stopped holding a charge and I thought it was not operating 100% reliably. That phone was a Nexus 5, a modest mid priced phone, and my current one is a Pixel 3a, an equally modest successor model. Both of them were entirely adequate, and while the second one is better (a little bigger, a little faster, better screen, better camera) it wasn't enough better to be exciting.

People sometimes say here that a camera is just a tool and they don't understand how anyone can get excited about it or care about it emotionally . That's how I feel about a smartphone. My cameras, on the other hand ... I am excited to buy a lens, and getting a new camera is more like adopting a pet , a careful, thoughtful, nerve racking, and eagerly anticipated major choice.

Well, I could have written that myself!  Exactly the way I feel about mine - which coincidentally is also a Pixel 3a.

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Marty4650
Marty4650 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,144
And me too...

davidedric wrote:

yardcoyote wrote:

I have a smartphone. I find it incredibly useful, and at this point it is probably pretty much necessary-- to my work, my personal safety, my communication with others, and my entertainment. If something happened to it, I would have to replace it immediately. But that would be simply an expense, no more exciting than having the furnace repaired.

I feel absolutely no desire to upgrade it using my limited budget for personal indulgences. Its value to me is purely in what it can do, and as long as it continues to do it properly, I'm perfectly happy with it. I kept my last phone for almost 6 years, only replacing it when it stopped holding a charge and I thought it was not operating 100% reliably. That phone was a Nexus 5, a modest mid priced phone, and my current one is a Pixel 3a, an equally modest successor model. Both of them were entirely adequate, and while the second one is better (a little bigger, a little faster, better screen, better camera) it wasn't enough better to be exciting.

People sometimes say here that a camera is just a tool and they don't understand how anyone can get excited about it or care about it emotionally . That's how I feel about a smartphone. My cameras, on the other hand ... I am excited to buy a lens, and getting a new camera is more like adopting a pet , a careful, thoughtful, nerve racking, and eagerly anticipated major choice.

Well, I could have written that myself! Exactly the way I feel about mine - which coincidentally is also a Pixel 3a.

Google never sold very many Pixel phones, and the 3a is one of their models with the least sales, yet I have one too. And for me, it is an absolute joy. It does everything I want it to do, and has enough memory (64GB) and a headphone jack.

And while the camera is certainly not the best available today, it is exceptionally good. I especially like the night mode and the portrait mode. I paid $400 for it back in 2019, and I plan to keep it for at least two or three more years. And then I will probably buy a Pixel 5a or 6a, if they are the current version.

The only downside is that Google says they will not provide Android updates after May 2022, so that means they only guaranteed OS updates for three years. But the phone won't stop working, it just won't get the newest version of Android each year.

The oldest version of Android still supported is 5.0 which was released in 2014,  Android 12 was just released, and if they support it as long as they have supported 5.0, that would take it to 2028. And by then I will 79 years old. And when you get that old, you don't plan too far ahead!

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yardcoyote Forum Pro • Posts: 14,594
Re: Phones not very interesting to me, to buy or use.

It's a good phone.

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yardcoyote Forum Pro • Posts: 14,594
Re: And me too...

Pixel 3a-- the phone for people who want a decent phone but don't want to get all bent out of shape about it.

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Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 20,810
Re: At least seven years support
1

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

That was true in the early days of smartphones, but iPhones from the 6s model onward can expect to receive at least seven years of manufacturer's updates.

There's support and there's currency.

I just downloaded the latest iOS update to my iPhone 6 - but it's an update to a backlevel iOS. So it's still supported and, presumably, security issues continue to be addressed (for a while ?) But I can't run Audible on my phone because the app requires a newer iOS. I'm not letting that drive a purchase of a new phone - I just borrow my wife's newer phone when I want to listen to an audio book while exercising ... I intend to make my phone last as long as possible, but I can get more life out of a camera.

To Vaughan's point, though, my cameras purchases are driven by a desire for something new/different - in the early days, by drastic improvements. I imagine a lot of people get similarly excited about phones, but I basically wait until my current phone is problematic or unusable. I'm sure phones have reached a similar level of sufficiency (good enough for anyone's needs) but manufacturers have plenty of ways to throw improvements into each model that matter to (some) buyers. Combine that with the percentage of the market that upgrades each year and I don't think the phone business will ever decline as much as the camera business.

Mark S Abeln
Mark S Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 18,687
iPhone 6

The iPhone 6, dating from 2014, is supported up to iOS 12. The iPhone 6s, from 2015, supports the latest iOS 15.

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Bob
Bob Veteran Member • Posts: 3,874
It's not history repeating

It's not history repeating itself in the market.  It IS the market.  The "market", of whatever goods, has always been about competition.

Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 20,810
Re: iPhone 6

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

The iPhone 6, dating from 2014, is supported up to iOS 12. The iPhone 6s, from 2015, supports the latest iOS 15.

Are they committed to 7 years at "current" iOS since the 6s ? i.e. Can you buy a new phone today and be (reasonably) confident that it will support a current OS for 7 years ? If so, I'd be pretty happy with that.

Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 20,810
Re: History repeating itself in the market

mamallama wrote:

Smartphones have become a necessity in modern life more than an addiction . They have replaced telephones, newspapers, computers, communication devices, television, map, etc. not to mention cameras.

If that's the case, why are so many people using them walking down the sidewalk, driving in their cars, in the grocery store and every chance they get at work and at school ?

I agree that they're incredibly handy, if not outright necessary, but I don't think the necessity factor outweighs the addiction factor in (most) people's use of phones.

I'm guessing I'm more like some of the rest of you here - my phone sits in the kitchen, unused, most of every day. I take it with me when I go out, in case my wife needs to get hold of me (or vice versa) or for directions. (And I use the weather app in preference to getting a sensationalist forecast on TV!) But otherwise, I prefer to look around and see and hear what's going on around me, rather than indulge in nonstop social media. (I spend more than enough time here on dpreview!)

The cell phone has also replaced the functions that your wallet was normally used for.

There are clearly lifestyles where a phone is handier for others than for me - I don't travel much; don't stay in hotels much; eat out rarely ... don't live in (or often visit) a big city. I rarely have reservations anywhere (though I have presented electronic tickets on my phone a couple times). I'm just not in the target market for a lot of what you can do with phone apps, but I can see where they make life easier for some people.

Mark S Abeln
Mark S Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 18,687
Re: iPhone 6

Apple isn’t completely clear about that, for who knows what the future may hold? But they typically will fully support a product for 5 to 7 years, as shown on their website.

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Dennis Forum Pro • Posts: 20,810
Re: iPhone 6

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Apple isn’t completely clear about that, for who knows what the future may hold? But they typically will fully support a product for 5 to 7 years, as shown on their website.

Thanks - it was a little bit of a letdown to find that I can't run an app like Audible on an otherwise perfectly capable phone, even if it is 7 years old! I'm not overly bothered by Apple's support for it (I get occasional updates to the iOS it's still running) ... Audible ought to have some degree of support for backlevel OS'. But it works on my wife's phone and it's her account, so nothing big to complain about.

bazzap101
bazzap101 Regular Member • Posts: 138
Re: History repeating itself in the market

vaughanB wrote:

In the early days of digital cameras, there was rapid advance with new releases of all kinds of dedicated cameras almost daily, as time went on, heaps of these were discarded as people upgraded regularly for improved image quality and features, this lasted for years but as the technology matured the new releases slowed and now we are almost at a standstill certainly with respect to compact cameras

We now see exactly the same thing happening with smartphones, masses of development, feverish upgrading by consumers and heaps of inexpensive used smartphone (bargains IMO) appearing on ebay often taken in part ex for a new shiny model

Its just as interesting and exciting as the early days of dedicated cameras for me, it has certainly restored my interest

Hello Vaughn,

Thank you for your post. Like you, I find mobile photography quite interesting and fascinating as I did with digital camera developments years ago. Like many people on DPReview, I am a retired old fella. I own DSLR and mirrorless systems plus a range of compact cameras. I do photography as an enjoyable hobby. I would always have at least a compact camera with me whenever I went anywhere.

That changed in late 2019 when I bought a Xiaomi Mi Note 10 phone. A mid-ranger, it has 5 cameras on the rear, ranging from an ultra-wide through to a 5x zoom (125 mm equiv). Simple to use and good enough IQ that I no longer needed to tote a camera with me on a daily basis.

From phones, we move onto action cams like GoPros and 360' cameras. I have a cheap SJcam SJ8 Pro. The photos it produces are frankly garbage but the video quality is fine. Great for making simple vlogs on the go. Very lightweight. I don't do much video but the latest Insta 360 Go 2 might be the next one I will buy. So tiny yet versatile.

Next, we enter the world of DJI with all its drones and gimbal cams. A year ago, I bought my first ever drone. A Mavic Air 2. Talk about easy & fun to use, this is right up there. Very reliable. It has not missed a beat. Taking photos from 100 metres in the air puts a different perspective on your photography. I love it.

Not many people will say that the stills and video IQ produced from mobile gear are better than or even equal to dedicated cameras like my Nikons and Fujis. I certainly won't. Handling, use in bright sunshine and low light performance are not the best either but I find mobile photography with its lightweight form factor so easy to use and very enjoyable.

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vaughanB
OP vaughanB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,534
Re: History repeating itself in the market

bazzap101 wrote:

Hello Vaughn,

Thank you for your post. Like you, I find mobile photography quite interesting and fascinating as I did with digital camera developments years ago.

It has certainly revived my interest, it sounds like you feel the same, I love my smartphone camera

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I think it unlikely that I will ever buy another brand new camera

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