History repeating itself in the market

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Rambow Senior Member • Posts: 2,153
Re: History repeating itself in the market

There is, but nobody from the other subforums go there and the regular posters from there never visit these other forums.

Between them and us there is the river Styx, very difficult to cross.

So OP, like others, posted this here, this way the topic gets more attention from people who in their lifetime heard of 2, maybe 3 brands of smartphones- Apple, Samsung and Motorola(this from the early days, not so much after Motorola sold the cellular division).

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Rambow Senior Member • Posts: 2,153
Re: One thing I've never seen discussed
1

Digital cameras are also computers, they lack a gsm module.

The other difference is that a camera tries to do a couple things right, while a phone does 30 things, photography being towards the end of the list.

Guess which one of these makes up for a better photographic experience.

This is like asking what tool is better for cutting a steak, a swiss army knife or a steak knife. Both can cut meat, no?

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Rambow Senior Member • Posts: 2,153
Re: Not quite the same...

Not being able to update the youtube and facebook apps is not a risk.

Is it risky using old mobile OS if you are a celebrity or carry important data on your phone? Sure, but in that case hackers will get you anyway no matter how up to date your device is , either by breaking into your various accounts, or by using spyware, like Pegasus.

The only possible way to be safe is to disconnect your phone from the internet, or better yet avoid using it altogether.

Www and safety are opposing words, they don't go together. People like Snowden know way more about this than regular people like me ever will:

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/12/edward-snowden-explains-how-to-reclaim-your-privacy/

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Rambow Senior Member • Posts: 2,153
Re: Not quite the same...
1

OP clearly only recently found out about smartphones, yes. If he was more interested he would have discovered that the major breakthroughs in this area were made a few years before he bought his first Iphone or android phone.

I had the pleasure of owning an early android phone, the Motorola Droid aka Milestone. That thing was something else, far from perfect but so stylish. I could run nintendo roms on it and use the physical keyboard and D pad for input, something an Iphone will never be able too.

It had a nice 5 mpx shooter as well.

But even before the Droid came along there were scores of smartphones that were fantastic at doing multiple things, all with really unique designs. Nokia N90 is one of the better known ones- need i say more?

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Rambow Senior Member • Posts: 2,153
Re: History repeating itself in the market

Very true. This is why i avoid social apps, or whatever they call them.

But there are nice things any smartphone can do today, you can read a pdf book or a Wikipedia article about the life of Elvis Presley. This is a privilege few take advantage of.

The more these phones can do, the less people use them to their potential. I really don't think cpus and HD screens were originally intended as a way for people to watch tik tok videos for hours on end, slowly but surely dscreasing their IQ average.

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yardcoyote Forum Pro • Posts: 14,600
Re: One thing I've never seen discussed
1

We always buy our phones outright.

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Guy Parsons
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Re: One thing I've never seen discussed
1

yardcoyote wrote:

We always buy our phones outright.

Ditto. And pay as you go scheme. In my case then a visit to Aldi for a $15 voucher that lasts a year for me for all the use I put it to.

My wife's slightly more usage of her phone has the $15 not quite make a year before needing a recharge.

Usually the 'phones are on the home WiFi network so any large OS updates that roll in do not burn up the pay as you go account. WhatsApp of course if possible to call anywhere in the world for free when at home.

Most calls of course are on the home phone which is VOIP and is un-timed 15c flat cost for any length call to a possible 25 million people in Australia.

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yardcoyote Forum Pro • Posts: 14,600
Phones not very interesting to me, to buy or use.
6

I have a smartphone. I find it incredibly useful, and at this point it is probably pretty much necessary-- to my work, my personal safety, my communication with others, and my entertainment. If something happened to it, I would have to replace it immediately. But that would be simply an expense, no more exciting than having the furnace repaired.

I feel absolutely no desire to upgrade it using my limited budget for personal indulgences. Its value to me is purely in what it can do, and as long as it continues to do it properly, I'm perfectly happy with it. I kept my last phone for almost 6 years, only replacing it when it stopped holding a charge and I thought it was not operating 100% reliably. That phone was a Nexus 5, a modest mid priced phone, and my current one is a Pixel 3a, an equally modest successor model. Both of them were entirely adequate, and while the second one is better (a little bigger, a little faster, better screen, better camera) it wasn't enough better to be exciting.

People sometimes say here that a camera is just a tool and they don't understand how anyone can get excited about it or care about it emotionally . That's how I feel about a smartphone. My cameras, on the other hand ... I am excited to buy a lens, and getting a new camera is more like adopting a pet , a careful, thoughtful, nerve racking, and eagerly anticipated major choice.

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yardcoyote Forum Pro • Posts: 14,600
Re: One thing I've never seen discussed
1

We actually use a major provider as only some companies offer reliable service in our area and we need a certain amount of data for travel. But bringing our own phones means we can use a month to month no contract service at a comparatively low price.

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BrentSchumer
BrentSchumer Senior Member • Posts: 4,326
Re: Not quite the same...
2

Rambow wrote:

Not being able to update the youtube and facebook apps is not a risk.

Is it risky using old mobile OS if you are a celebrity or carry important data on your phone? Sure, but in that case hackers will get you anyway no matter how up to date your device is , either by breaking into your various accounts, or by using spyware, like Pegasus.

The only possible way to be safe is to disconnect your phone from the internet, or better yet avoid using it altogether.

Www and safety are opposing words, they don't go together. People like Snowden know way more about this than regular people like me ever will:

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/12/edward-snowden-explains-how-to-reclaim-your-privacy/

This is beyond ignorant. Phone operating systems (the software that apps like YouTube and Facebook run on) require constant updates to mitigate risks. They are readily available to peruse online: https://source.android.com/security/bulletin

While security updates won't render your phone 100% secure, a lack of updates will certainly leave more vulnerabilities open.  It's like not locking your front door when you go on vacation, because someone could shimmy down your fireplace, instead.

There's a reason why scammers and identity thieves prey on the tech-illiterate, with astonishing success.

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Joe Bagadonuts Contributing Member • Posts: 605
Re: History repeating itself in the market

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

Manufacturers are chum-feeding smartphones to a frenzied populace they've hooked on an endless addiction cycle to social media.

Amidst the epidemic of selfies, mental health has never been poorer and the prevalence of body dysmorphia never been higher. It's not the photography, per se, that drives adoption, but rather the promise of more attention, regard, and recognition that the new device might garner.

And manufacturers are all too happy to feed this desperate and maladaptive quest for likes and validation with hyped promises.

But the devices always fall short--because that's what addiction is: you can never have enough. And so the cycle continues...

Smartphones have become a necessity in modern life more than an addiction . They have replaced telephones, newspapers, computers, communication devices, television, map, etc. not to mention cameras.

The cell phone has also replaced the functions that your wallet was normally used for.

The need to have the latest smartphone doesn't stem for the phone's ability to do all that. Almost any phone within the last 10 years is more than capable of handling those tasks.

No, that need arises because of addiction--to banners, notifications, and sounds designed to distract and addict, to continuous scrolling algorithms that keep feeding new information as one scrolls, to games and their endless loot-boxes, and to the host of toxic social media apps, whose algorithms are biased against fact and which keep feeding the junkies their dopamine fix of likes..

Or it doesn’t.

mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 60,057
Re: History repeating itself in the market
1

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

Manufacturers are chum-feeding smartphones to a frenzied populace they've hooked on an endless addiction cycle to social media.

Amidst the epidemic of selfies, mental health has never been poorer and the prevalence of body dysmorphia never been higher. It's not the photography, per se, that drives adoption, but rather the promise of more attention, regard, and recognition that the new device might garner.

And manufacturers are all too happy to feed this desperate and maladaptive quest for likes and validation with hyped promises.

But the devices always fall short--because that's what addiction is: you can never have enough. And so the cycle continues...

Smartphones have become a necessity in modern life more than an addiction . They have replaced telephones, newspapers, computers, communication devices, television, map, etc. not to mention cameras.

The cell phone has also replaced the functions that your wallet was normally used for.

The need to have the latest smartphone doesn't stem for the phone's ability to do all that.

I never said it did. The need to have the latest is the addiction be it a camera or a smartphone. Smartphone companies now have more leverage than camera companies to entice that addiction with more innovations.

Almost any phone within the last 10 years is more than capable of handling those tasks.

No, that need arises because of addiction--to banners, notifications, and sounds designed to distract and addict, to continuous scrolling algorithms that keep feeding new information as one scrolls, to games and their endless loot-boxes, and to the host of toxic social media apps, whose algorithms are biased against fact and which keep feeding the junkies their dopamine fix of likes..

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davidedric Veteran Member • Posts: 7,055
Re: One thing I've never seen discussed
1

Rambow wrote:

Digital cameras are also computers, they lack a gsm module.

The other difference is that a camera tries to do a couple things right, while a phone does 30 things, photography being towards the end of the list.

Guess which one of these makes up for a better photographic experience.

This is like asking what tool is better for cutting a steak, a swiss army knife or a steak knife. Both can cut meat, no?

Sure.  But, our eletricity and gas meters are in dark and somewhat inaccessible cupboard.

So, if I want to take readings, a smartphone photograph is ideal.

A useful tool to have in the bag to use when I need an image of something, as distinct from "photography"

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iljitsch Senior Member • Posts: 1,095
Re: History repeating itself in the market

Rambow wrote:

(A forum for mobile photography)

There is, but nobody from the other subforums go there and the regular posters from there never visit these other forums.

Between them and us there is the river Styx, very difficult to cross.

I think the point is that eventually, everyone crosses the Styx in one direction, but few cross back in the other direction. 

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 37,979
Re: History repeating itself in the market
1

iljitsch wrote:

Rambow wrote:

(A forum for mobile photography)

There is, but nobody from the other subforums go there and the regular posters from there never visit these other forums.

Between them and us there is the river Styx, very difficult to cross.

I think the point is that eventually, everyone crosses the Styx in one direction, but few cross back in the other direction.

It's always one way. Don't forget the coin for Charon.

I thought that the Styx was easy to cross, and totally impossible to come back.

Though some of the Greek gods could skip to and fro.

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Flavil
Flavil Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: History repeating itself in the market
3

This thread in skit form.

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RAW--- Reconfigurable Architecture Workflowness

mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 60,057
Re: History repeating itself in the market
1

Phil A Martin wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

Manufacturers are chum-feeding smartphones to a frenzied populace they've hooked on an endless addiction cycle to social media.

Amidst the epidemic of selfies, mental health has never been poorer and the prevalence of body dysmorphia never been higher. It's not the photography, per se, that drives adoption, but rather the promise of more attention, regard, and recognition that the new device might garner.

And manufacturers are all too happy to feed this desperate and maladaptive quest for likes and validation with hyped promises.

But the devices always fall short--because that's what addiction is: you can never have enough. And so the cycle continues...

Smartphones have become a necessity in modern life more than an addiction . They have replaced telephones

They haven't replaced telephones, they are telephones.

, newspapers, computers, communication devices, television

You really think they have replaced televisions and you have sales figures proving this.

, map, etc. not to mention cameras.

Now you say they have replaced cameras, before you were saying they were cameras. Which is it?

The cell phone has also replaced the functions that your wallet was normally used for.

See I totally disagree with your ultimist position. They haven't replaced all the functions you've mentioned, they have simply become an additional portable tool to be used alongside PCs, TVs, Cameras etc.

My partner's son has a smartphone which he uses a lot but he also has his PC where he communicates and games with his friends, who are now scattered around the country in different universities.

I have a smartphone camera which I use on a regular basis but I still use cameras for serious photography. I've watched TV on my phone or tablet when travelling but I have a full size TV at home which I prefer. I also use my phone for music and radio but I prefer my Marantz stereo system for serious listening. And so do many other people.

Yes smartphones are handy little tools but they're not the be all and end all of everything.

None totally but in many cases, yes. Your examples prove it.

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Phil A Martin
Phil A Martin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,850
Re: History repeating itself in the market

mamallama wrote:

Phil A Martin wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

Manufacturers are chum-feeding smartphones to a frenzied populace they've hooked on an endless addiction cycle to social media.

Amidst the epidemic of selfies, mental health has never been poorer and the prevalence of body dysmorphia never been higher. It's not the photography, per se, that drives adoption, but rather the promise of more attention, regard, and recognition that the new device might garner.

And manufacturers are all too happy to feed this desperate and maladaptive quest for likes and validation with hyped promises.

But the devices always fall short--because that's what addiction is: you can never have enough. And so the cycle continues...

Smartphones have become a necessity in modern life more than an addiction . They have replaced telephones

They haven't replaced telephones, they are telephones.

, newspapers, computers, communication devices, television

You really think they have replaced televisions and you have sales figures proving this.

, map, etc. not to mention cameras.

Now you say they have replaced cameras, before you were saying they were cameras. Which is it?

The cell phone has also replaced the functions that your wallet was normally used for.

See I totally disagree with your ultimist position. They haven't replaced all the functions you've mentioned, they have simply become an additional portable tool to be used alongside PCs, TVs, Cameras etc.

My partner's son has a smartphone which he uses a lot but he also has his PC where he communicates and games with his friends, who are now scattered around the country in different universities.

I have a smartphone camera which I use on a regular basis but I still use cameras for serious photography. I've watched TV on my phone or tablet when travelling but I have a full size TV at home which I prefer. I also use my phone for music and radio but I prefer my Marantz stereo system for serious listening. And so do many other people.

Yes smartphones are handy little tools but they're not the be all and end all of everything.

None totally but in many cases, yes. Your examples prove it.

Only if you deny or don't know the meaning of the word "replaced".

My argument was that you were exaggerating the impact of the smart phone with your claim that it had "replaced" the functions mentioned above but now you admit that it's replaced "none totally", so it seems we agree.

deednets Forum Pro • Posts: 12,830
Re: Not quite the same...
2

Marty4650 wrote:

BrentSchumer wrote:

The difference is that old smartphones are a security risk, due to limited update lifecycles. Buyer beware.

And your "BRAND NEW $1,100 Smartphone" will become an old smartphone in two or three years time. Thus making it a "security risk that requires replacement."

The problem here is that cameras with "mature technology" can last ten years or more, but a smartphone with the latest and greatest technology in it has a very limited lifespan.

And this is marketing genius. Because they have created a very desirable, but also very expensive disposable device. Normally, disposable devices are cheap things like ballpoint pens, or paper cups.... but this time they have succeeded in creating a very expensive disposable device.

And they deserve a lot of credit for that. At least, from their stockholders...

An excellent post!

Deed

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mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 60,057
Re: History repeating itself in the market

Phil A Martin wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Phil A Martin wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Travis Nicky Bombastus wrote:

Manufacturers are chum-feeding smartphones to a frenzied populace they've hooked on an endless addiction cycle to social media.

Amidst the epidemic of selfies, mental health has never been poorer and the prevalence of body dysmorphia never been higher. It's not the photography, per se, that drives adoption, but rather the promise of more attention, regard, and recognition that the new device might garner.

And manufacturers are all too happy to feed this desperate and maladaptive quest for likes and validation with hyped promises.

But the devices always fall short--because that's what addiction is: you can never have enough. And so the cycle continues...

Smartphones have become a necessity in modern life more than an addiction . They have replaced telephones

They haven't replaced telephones, they are telephones.

, newspapers, computers, communication devices, television

You really think they have replaced televisions and you have sales figures proving this.

, map, etc. not to mention cameras.

Now you say they have replaced cameras, before you were saying they were cameras. Which is it?

The cell phone has also replaced the functions that your wallet was normally used for.

See I totally disagree with your ultimist position. They haven't replaced all the functions you've mentioned, they have simply become an additional portable tool to be used alongside PCs, TVs, Cameras etc.

My partner's son has a smartphone which he uses a lot but he also has his PC where he communicates and games with his friends, who are now scattered around the country in different universities.

I have a smartphone camera which I use on a regular basis but I still use cameras for serious photography. I've watched TV on my phone or tablet when travelling but I have a full size TV at home which I prefer. I also use my phone for music and radio but I prefer my Marantz stereo system for serious listening. And so do many other people.

Yes smartphones are handy little tools but they're not the be all and end all of everything.

None totally but in many cases, yes. Your examples prove it.

Only if you deny or don't know the meaning of the word "replaced".

My argument was that you were exaggerating the impact of the smart phone with your claim that it had "replaced" the functions mentioned above but now you admit that it's replaced "none totally", so it seems we agree.

You are the one confused about what replaced means. You say they have replaced telephones yet I still have a landline telephone at my house.

You are making it up when you said I claimed “replaced the function “. I never claimed any such thing.

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