What's wrong with this photo?

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GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
What's wrong with this photo?
2

Thanks to RAW burst mode, the M6 mark II has allowed me to take bird photos I could never have achieved before. However a recent photo has a problem in the blurry area on one of the birds wings and I don't know what's causing it. The rest of the photo is okay.

Canon EOS M6
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KevinRA Contributing Member • Posts: 841
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
1

GinaRothfels wrote:

Thanks to RAW burst mode, the M6 mark II has allowed me to take bird photos I could never have achieved before. However a recent photo has a problem in the blurry area on one of the birds wings and I don't know what's causing it. The rest of the photo is okay.

dont know and others here more qualified / knowledgeable - suspect combination of rolling shutter and motion blur - with very very fast wing beats?

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YehudaKatz Senior Member • Posts: 2,345
Motion blur and out of focus area.
1

KevinRA wrote:

GinaRothfels wrote:

Thanks to RAW burst mode, the M6 mark II has allowed me to take bird photos I could never have achieved before. However a recent photo has a problem in the blurry area on one of the birds wings and I don't know what's causing it. The rest of the photo is okay.

dont know and others here more qualified / knowledgeable - suspect combination of rolling shutter and motion blur - with very very fast wing beats?

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OP GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: Motion blur and out of focus area.
3

Motion blur doesn't explain the regular stripes.

nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 7,916
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
11

GinaRothfels wrote:

Thanks to RAW burst mode, the M6 mark II has allowed me to take bird photos I could never have achieved before. However a recent photo has a problem in the blurry area on one of the birds wings and I don't know what's causing it. The rest of the photo is okay.

RAW burst mode uses the electronic shutter.  The image sensor in your camera reads out at a fixed speed from top to bottom.  This is often referred to as "rolling shutter", and this readout speed is independent of your chosen shutter speed.  What you are seeing in the tips of the wings is due to this rolling shutter effect because the tips of the wings were moving much faster than the rest of the bird.

Shooting bursts with the mechanical shutter can mitigate this issue, but then you will lose the higher burst speeds.

OP GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
1

nnowak wrote:

RAW burst mode uses the electronic shutter. The image sensor in your camera reads out at a fixed speed from top to bottom. This is often referred to as "rolling shutter", and this readout speed is independent of your chosen shutter speed. What you are seeing in the tips of the wings is due to this rolling shutter effect because the tips of the wings were moving much faster than the rest of the bird.

Thanks. I suspected it was something like that.

I've shot a lot of similar bursts in the short time I've had my camera and this is the first time I've noticed this problem, but I guess it won't be the last.

Shooting bursts with the mechanical shutter can mitigate this issue, but then you will lose the higher burst speeds.

And more importantly I will lose preburst. Without it I would have got a photo of empty blue sky.

I just wish my Photoshop skills were good enough to fix photos like this.

R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 23,824
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
3

GinaRothfels wrote:

I just wish my Photoshop skills were good enough to fix photos like this.

Don't put yourself out.  There's no Photoshopping skills that'll fix this!

Even the high end bodies suffer from this on occasion.  Here's a sample from my R5...

"Aliasing" along the wing edges.  Click on "original size"

Fortunately it doesn't happen too often!

R2

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 201
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

Shutter speed is too slow. Your camera can be adjusted up to the max shutter of 1/16000

OP GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

Brokenland wrote:

Shutter speed is too slow. Your camera can be adjusted up to the max shutter of 1/16000

But then I'd have to use a very high ISO which would ruin the quality on ALL my photos, not just the rare exception like this one.

Max@Home
Max@Home Veteran Member • Posts: 3,748
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
1

GinaRothfels wrote:

I just wish my Photoshop skills were good enough to fix photos like this.

in this case a dramatic crop through the affected wing results in a still nice image

...*my* €0.002 worth...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

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OP GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

That's certainly worth a try. Thanks.

OP GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

R2D2 wrote:

GinaRothfels wrote:

I just wish my Photoshop skills were good enough to fix photos like this.

Don't put yourself out. There's no Photoshopping skills that'll fix this!

Even the high end bodies suffer from this on occasion. Here's a sample from my R5...

"Aliasing" along the wing edges. Click on "original size"

Fortunately it doesn't happen too often!

R2

Sorry for the late reply - I couldn't see your photo well enough on my phone to judge.

It's certainly the same problem, but nowhere near as bad as it is on my photo. Yours is visible if you look for it, but it doesn't ruin the photo.

dan the man p Contributing Member • Posts: 720
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
1

GinaRothfels wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

GinaRothfels wrote:

I just wish my Photoshop skills were good enough to fix photos like this.

Don't put yourself out. There's no Photoshopping skills that'll fix this!

Even the high end bodies suffer from this on occasion. Here's a sample from my R5...

Fortunately it doesn't happen too often!

R2

Sorry for the late reply - I couldn't see your photo well enough on my phone to judge.

It's certainly the same problem, but nowhere near as bad as it is on my photo. Yours is visible if you look for it, but it doesn't ruin the photo.

His had a higher shutter speed and probably less relative wing motion. You just have to accept that this will happen sometimes, or increase your shutter speed to limit it. In this case, bumping the ISO to 800 and/or reducing the aperture below f/8 (if your lens is capable) would have improved the image.

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OP GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
1

dan the man p wrote:

His had a higher shutter speed and probably less relative wing motion. You just have to accept that this will happen sometimes, or increase your shutter speed to limit it. In this case, bumping the ISO to 800 and/or reducing the aperture below f/8 (if your lens is capable) would have improved the image.

I'm not keen to reduce the aperture because I struggle to get birds in focus even at f/8, but I guess I could try increasing the shutter speed. I use Manual settings with auto ISO, so hopefully the ISO won't go too high.

I've just seen what I could do with this photo in Photoshop. The result isn't perfect, but I think it's an improvement.

nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 7,916
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

dan the man p wrote:

GinaRothfels wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

GinaRothfels wrote:

I just wish my Photoshop skills were good enough to fix photos like this.

Don't put yourself out. There's no Photoshopping skills that'll fix this!

Even the high end bodies suffer from this on occasion. Here's a sample from my R5...

Fortunately it doesn't happen too often!

R2

Sorry for the late reply - I couldn't see your photo well enough on my phone to judge.

It's certainly the same problem, but nowhere near as bad as it is on my photo. Yours is visible if you look for it, but it doesn't ruin the photo.

His had a higher shutter speed and probably less relative wing motion. You just have to accept that this will happen sometimes, or increase your shutter speed to limit it. In this case, bumping the ISO to 800 and/or reducing the aperture below f/8 (if your lens is capable) would have improved the image.

When you are using the electronic shutter, changing the shutter speed won't change the level of rolling shutter.  The rolling shutter is a fixed speed.

nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 7,916
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

Brokenland wrote:

Shutter speed is too slow. Your camera can be adjusted up to the max shutter of 1/16000

The artifact is due to rolling shutter.  Changing the shutter speed has no impact on the speed of the rolling shutter.

dan the man p Contributing Member • Posts: 720
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
1

nnowak wrote:

dan the man p wrote:

His had a higher shutter speed and probably less relative wing motion. You just have to accept that this will happen sometimes, or increase your shutter speed to limit it. In this case, bumping the ISO to 800 and/or reducing the aperture below f/8 (if your lens is capable) would have improved the image.

When you are using the electronic shutter, changing the shutter speed won't change the level of rolling shutter. The rolling shutter is a fixed speed.

I stand corrected. So then nothing can be done, outside of not using the electronic shutter or not shooting such fast moving objects?

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nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 7,916
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

dan the man p wrote:

nnowak wrote:

dan the man p wrote:

His had a higher shutter speed and probably less relative wing motion. You just have to accept that this will happen sometimes, or increase your shutter speed to limit it. In this case, bumping the ISO to 800 and/or reducing the aperture below f/8 (if your lens is capable) would have improved the image.

When you are using the electronic shutter, changing the shutter speed won't change the level of rolling shutter. The rolling shutter is a fixed speed.

I stand corrected. So then nothing can be done, outside of not using the electronic shutter or not shooting such fast moving objects?

Nope, not really anything.  Though, it would be interesting to see how the artifacts changed by shooting in portrait orientation versus landscape orientation.  I am guessing the horizontal readout speed (along a row) is different from the vertical readout speed (from row to row).

KevinRA Contributing Member • Posts: 841
Re: What's wrong with this photo?
1

GinaRothfels wrote:

Thanks to RAW burst mode, the M6 mark II has allowed me to take bird photos I could never have achieved before. However a recent photo has a problem in the blurry area on one of the birds wings and I don't know what's causing it. The rest of the photo is okay.

Just out of interest - how were the other shots in this burst sequence?  If this the only real problem one??

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OP GinaRothfels Regular Member • Posts: 261
Re: What's wrong with this photo?

KevinRA wrote:

Just out of interest - how were the other shots in this burst sequence? If this the only real problem one??

I hadn't thought to look because that was the only one I edited, but the wings were similar on most of them.

Now that I've noticed the problem, it's visible to a lesser extent on photos like this one (taken on a different day):

Perhaps the banding is less conspicuous because I was further from the bird.

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