2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

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procto21 New Member • Posts: 23
2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?
2

Bought a Fuji xt-2 in late 2016 and added several fantastic lenses. (56 1.2, 16mm 1.4, 50-140mm 2.8, 18-55mm kit lens and Ronkinon 12mm.

I am 80% photos and 20% video. Travel, family, kids sports, music festivals, some weddings. I do not do photography for a living, but have been paid for some of my work.

I have loved the fuji system for years. It does almost everything well except faster action (sports, concerts and pets) and lower light applications. I have shot both an xt-4 and h-1 and while certainly better than my xt-2, some of the limitations still remain and are not significant enough for the upgrade.

With no major Fuji body updates on the horizon other than the H-2 in mid-2022, I have been researching a full-framed alternative from Canon or Sony. If I sold all my Fuji gear, it looks as if I could snag a new or lightly used entry full frame mirrorless (Cannon EOS R or Sony a7III or a7C) and one or two zooms to start.

While Fuji may eventually update their APS-C series, the newer updates (xt-4) to date have bettered but not completely fixed or addressed the issues above.

So, keep the glass and wait on Fuji to hopefully make a large enough leap in APS-C tech or sell everything and move towards a full frame system and start building good glass on that end.

Chris R-UK Forum Pro • Posts: 21,785
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?
1

I understand the lower light limitations of you XT-2, but you are a bit vague about the limitations for fast action.  AF speed, AF tracking, fps rates, EVF blackout, rolling shutter......?  Can you be a bit more specific because I, for one, wouldn't call the EOS R a camera for fast action photography.

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Chris R

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PhotonBeam
PhotonBeam Regular Member • Posts: 293
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?
1

Chris R-UK wrote:

I understand the lower light limitations of you XT-2, but you are a bit vague about the limitations for fast action. AF speed, AF tracking, fps rates, EVF blackout, rolling shutter......? Can you be a bit more specific because I, for one, wouldn't call the EOS R a camera for fast action photography.

I agree with the questions asked by Chris. I am not too familiar with the Fuji lineup, but I do know that the top of the line cameras are no slouch. I am guessing you would need to go with something like the Canon R6 to match/surpass the best Fuji cameras with respect to autofocus and shooting speed.

If noise on images from shooting action in low light is your biggest issue, I would ask of you plan to purchase f1.2 and f2.8 Canon RF lenses. If you go with the more affordable f4 or f2, you likely won't be gaining much better low light performance. You may be better off trying one of the AI noise reduction software packages (e.g., DXO).

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rattrr75 Regular Member • Posts: 116
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

If an X-T4 and 50-140 aren’t capable of shooting kids’ sports, I’d be surprised and disappointed. I have an X-T4 and I’m tempted from time to time by an A7III or EOS R but I always stall when I think about the compromises I’d be making that might offset any gains.

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OP procto21 New Member • Posts: 23
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

Chris R-UK wrote:

I understand the lower light limitations of you XT-2, but you are a bit vague about the limitations for fast action. AF speed, AF tracking, fps rates, EVF blackout, rolling shutter......? Can you be a bit more specific because I, for one, wouldn't call the EOS R a camera for fast action photography.

Sure thing. AF speed, AF tracking and buffer for me mainly. I am open to any feedback about either system. I have friends who shoot both Sony, Nikon and Canon. Most have said that I would get better low light performance and better AF tracking and AF speed with an entry to middle level full frame version. I will totally acknowledge newer fuji stuff is slightly better, but my main hesitancy is that I can get a newer full frame alternative for the price of a newly introduced Fuji.

OP procto21 New Member • Posts: 23
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?
1

rattrr75 wrote:

If an X-T4 and 50-140 aren’t capable of shooting kids’ sports, I’d be surprised and disappointed. I have an X-T4 and I’m tempted from time to time by an A7III or EOS R but I always stall when I think about the compromises I’d be making that might offset any gains.

You nailed it. I probably would not be temped as much because of the improvements made to the xt-4. I would still have to buy an xt-4 to get better AF speed and tracking and it is current sitting around $1,700. I am comfortable with Fuji and totally understand the compromises.

Chris R-UK Forum Pro • Posts: 21,785
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

procto21 wrote:

Chris R-UK wrote:

I understand the lower light limitations of you XT-2, but you are a bit vague about the limitations for fast action. AF speed, AF tracking, fps rates, EVF blackout, rolling shutter......? Can you be a bit more specific because I, for one, wouldn't call the EOS R a camera for fast action photography.

Sure thing. AF speed, AF tracking and buffer for me mainly. I am open to any feedback about either system. I have friends who shoot both Sony, Nikon and Canon. Most have said that I would get better low light performance and better AF tracking and AF speed with an entry to middle level full frame version. I will totally acknowledge newer fuji stuff is slightly better, but my main hesitancy is that I can get a newer full frame alternative for the price of a newly introduced Fuji.

But what about the cost of the lenses that you would need for FF?  What is the total cost of replacing your Fujifilm system with a FF system?

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Chris R

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MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 4,838
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?
2

procto21 wrote:

With no major Fuji body updates on the horizon other than the H-2 in mid-2022, I have been researching a full-framed alternative from Canon or Sony. If I sold all my Fuji gear, it looks as if I could snag a new or lightly used entry full frame mirrorless (Cannon EOS R or Sony a7III or a7C) and one or two zooms to start.

for better af, you won't get there with eos-r, it'll need to be r5 or r6.

what you want for shooting action is a stacked sensor body... a used a9 currently has the best af r.o.i. on the market by a wide margin.

if you hope to shoot action for the next 10+ years, invest in a brand that'll deliver stacked sensor bodies... canikon is finally doing that, and there are rumors that sony has made a stacked m4/3 sensor, which could be really good for olympus.

fuji uses sony sensors, but if sony makes a stacked sensor for x-mount, it'll immediately render the a6xxx line largely obsolete... sony would have to release a stacked sensor crop e-mount camera before they sell a stacked sensor to fuji, but it would unfortunately compete with their own a9/a1 lineup, which is why they haven't done it so far.

on the other hand, the sony sensor division is supposed to be independent, if fuji wants a stacked sensor can they get it now?

moral of the story; think long-term as a mount investment.

Cato1040
Cato1040 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,044
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

I'd think your speed problems can be solved within the Fujifilm system. However, if you're always going to be wanting full-frame low-light performance, then it may make sense to make the switch.

And if you do, Sony and Canon would definitely be my recommendations for systems to look at for AF and low-light performance.

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OP procto21 New Member • Posts: 23
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

Chris R-UK wrote:

procto21 wrote:

Chris R-UK wrote:

I understand the lower light limitations of you XT-2, but you are a bit vague about the limitations for fast action. AF speed, AF tracking, fps rates, EVF blackout, rolling shutter......? Can you be a bit more specific because I, for one, wouldn't call the EOS R a camera for fast action photography.

Sure thing. AF speed, AF tracking and buffer for me mainly. I am open to any feedback about either system. I have friends who shoot both Sony, Nikon and Canon. Most have said that I would get better low light performance and better AF tracking and AF speed with an entry to middle level full frame version. I will totally acknowledge newer fuji stuff is slightly better, but my main hesitancy is that I can get a newer full frame alternative for the price of a newly introduced Fuji.

But what about the cost of the lenses that you would need for FF? What is the total cost of replacing your Fujifilm system with a FF system?

It's looking like I have $3500-4K in everything I have on the used market. I would not replace everything from a lens standpoint. It also appears that Canon and Sony have more intermediate lens options than Fuji. I certainly would go cheap on the glass, I would just be more intentional knowing how I shoot the fuji now if I decided to go in that direction.

OP procto21 New Member • Posts: 23
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

Cato1040 wrote:

I'd think your speed problems can be solved within the Fujifilm system. However, if you're always going to be wanting full-frame low-light performance, then it may make sense to make the switch.

And if you do, Sony and Canon would definitely be my recommendations for systems to look at for AF and low-light performance.

I agree Fuji can solve this. Many of the newest fuji lenses are faster than previous gens (1.4's and 1.8's). And as a previous poster mentioned, stacked sensors or improved sensors are coming at some point.

It is either wait 6-12 months on Fuji to come out with better tech on the camera end (for $1700-2500) and keep the existing glass or make the move to a full frame system (again, $1700-2500 for the body new or used), get 1-2 good lenses and slowly build good glass over the next several years). The tradeoff would be glass options up front and learning a new system.

robgendreau Veteran Member • Posts: 9,329
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?
2

procto21 wrote:

Chris R-UK wrote:

procto21 wrote:

Chris R-UK wrote:

I understand the lower light limitations of you XT-2, but you are a bit vague about the limitations for fast action. AF speed, AF tracking, fps rates, EVF blackout, rolling shutter......? Can you be a bit more specific because I, for one, wouldn't call the EOS R a camera for fast action photography.

Sure thing. AF speed, AF tracking and buffer for me mainly. I am open to any feedback about either system. I have friends who shoot both Sony, Nikon and Canon. Most have said that I would get better low light performance and better AF tracking and AF speed with an entry to middle level full frame version. I will totally acknowledge newer fuji stuff is slightly better, but my main hesitancy is that I can get a newer full frame alternative for the price of a newly introduced Fuji.

But what about the cost of the lenses that you would need for FF? What is the total cost of replacing your Fujifilm system with a FF system?

It's looking like I have $3500-4K in everything I have on the used market. I would not replace everything from a lens standpoint. It also appears that Canon and Sony have more intermediate lens options than Fuji. I certainly would go cheap on the glass, I would just be more intentional knowing how I shoot the fuji now if I decided to go in that direction.

Well, I think you'd need to go with say the R6, so $2500. And then add at least a 70-200mm F4L for $1600, roughly the equivalent of the lens you have in that range. Ideally the 2.8 though since you want low light performance, so $2200 or so, total $4700. A bit over budget, and only one lens. Might be a cheaper longer lens for fast action on the Canon R's with adapter though.

I'd consider Lens Authority's rentals though with the option to buy. Might be the improvement of a FF just isn't enough to justify a financial hit.

Craig Gillette Forum Pro • Posts: 11,867
Re: 2021: Wait on Fuji Update or Move to Full Frame (Canon/Sony Mirrorless)?

I'm a Sony user, fwiw.  My impression is Fuji is not going to go FF soon, more likely never.  A change of brand/mount is often a start over.  A change from aps-c to ff is often pretty much a start over, perhaps somewhat less so with Sony.  Any of those sorts of changes takes some amount of time and money to accomplish, so, if needing to go FF in another mount, I'd suggest just doing it once, not having an interim step to something else in aps-c, then to FF.  Any system/mount, I'd be a little hesitant to look too far into the future towards hoped for/unannounced product advances.

That said, it might make sense to stay the course for a while with Fuji if reasonable to expect a new release that might clear up some of your concerns.  Sony, as opposed to Canon and Nikon has a fairly established aps-c product line and there is some inter-operability between aps-c and ff.  However, while wished for, there is still little beyond dreams for an aps-c mini A9 of some sort.  Canon and Nikon, the aps-c system futures are even less clear than Sony's which at least has a pretty broad range in bodies and lenses already.

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