live streams of acoustic concerts

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
ksrvpvl New Member • Posts: 1
live streams of acoustic concerts

Please advise the broadcasting equipment. now i'm shooting on Panasonic v770 + blackmagic web presenter. I need help finding video and audio equipment to improve broadcasts.

need a camera for poor lighting, work from a constant power source. also i cant solve the problem of audio recording. the sound is recorded on the camera. what microphones should i use? my budget is 3000 dollars

broadcast examples

https://vk.com/video-1083731_456239253

https://vk.com/video-1083731_456239246

uncle dunc Senior Member • Posts: 1,203
Re: live streams of acoustic concerts
1

If it has to be live streamed, consider getting a small 4 or 8 channel mixer. and mics for the piano and singer/violinist. The camera mic is too far away from the musicians. We're hearing too much room sound. For good sound, you'd want 2 mics for the piano so you can capture it in stereo, and a mic for the singer or violinist. The singer/violinist mic could be a foot away to avoid obstructing the camera's view. Piano mics would either be boomed over the strings with the lid open all the way, or out in front of the piano, looking into where the lid is cracked open. For micing a string ensemble, you'd take your two piano mics and spread them out to capture the string players. Notice how the professionals mic a music performance. That's what you need to do to get good sound.

If your sound source needs to plug into the camera, you can get a "padded" cable that converts line level coming out of the mixer's "tape out" RCA jacks to mic level going into the camera. You'd need a set of isolation headphones in order to adjust the mix. Here in the USA, Extreme Isolation headphones are made for that purpose.

Improving your lighting would really help. Consider finding some LED PAR lights and  lighting trees to be off camera, creating side lighting or back lighting. PAR lights throw the light farther than the new LED light panels everyone is using for live music these days. If you put a spot light on each performer, not from the front but from the side or back corner, it would give them a "glowing" outline.

I took some old school, cheap light trees that held 4 par lights each (in 'cans" that include a slot for a colored gel holder) and cut them down to 2 par lights each, which made them easier to transport and set up in small spaces. I then got 2 more tripod speaker stands and fashioned 2 more light trees out of black PVC plumbing pipe so I could bring all 8 lights on 4 trees if I needed them. You might be able to find a set of these stage lights on the used market. It seems they stopped selling them and moved to flat LED light panels a few years ago.

Last on the list would be another camera, but if you do the above first, you may not need another camera.

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Off The Mark Veteran Member • Posts: 5,358
Re: live streams of acoustic concerts

uncle dunc wrote:

I took some old school, cheap light trees that held 4 par lights each (in 'cans" that include a slot for a colored gel holder) and cut them down to 2 par lights each, which made them easier to transport and set up in small spaces. I then got 2 more tripod speaker stands and fashioned 2 more light trees out of black PVC plumbing pipe so I could bring all 8 lights on 4 trees if I needed them. You might be able to find a set of these stage lights on the used market. It seems they stopped selling them and moved to flat LED light panels a few years ago.

If you have a BTS photo (or a shot where the light trees can be seen in action), I would really appreciate it.

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uncle dunc Senior Member • Posts: 1,203
Re: live streams of acoustic concerts
2

Off The Mark wrote:

If you have a BTS photo (or a shot where the light trees can be seen in action), I would really appreciate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVMVGC970D0

Light trees in the opening shot, and again at around 1:10. Those were the main lights, LED Par bulbs, two on each side, probably 250 watt rated. There were four 75 watt colored spot bulbs in the ceiling out in front of the stage, but they didn't do much. I also hung up a work light behind the drummer.

Light trees are made of 1 & 1/2" PVC pipe, which fits over a standard speaker stand. I drilled a hole near the bottom of the PVC pipe to run a bolt through to go through the bolt holes on the speaker stand. I put a Tee at the top, with maybe 12" of pipe on each side, drilled a hole, and hung the Par cans with a wingnut on the bolt. They used to sell these cheap par cans and speaker stands (two trees, two stands, 8 par cans with standard bulb sockets) for around $250. Now they're all LED flat panels with a computer chip control box, which is why I mentioned the used market.

For the shoot, I set up three GX85s (wide in the back of the room up high, Left, Right) and a G7, a Yi (GoPro wannbe) on me (piano player) and a Zcam E1 with a 7.5mm Laowa rectilinear lens behind the stage, all shooting 4k. The handheld camera is a Panasonic V750 camcorder, which only shoots 1080p. The color doesn't match, but on a shoot like this, it doesn't really matter. I also used my Samsung phone on a gimbal for some random shots from the crowd when I wasn't on stage. The zooms on the stationary 4k cameras are all done in editing, rendering to a 1080p output.

Sound was recorded by the guitar player, using his QSC mixer to capture 16 tracks to a usb stick to be mixed later. It was a throw-together show commemorating the 50th anniversary of Woodstock.

Getting back to the topic of this post (sound!) close micing is the only way to ensure a good sound recording. One might get lucky with a stereo mic out in front of the performers, but if it's a live room, which both of the example videos were, the room sound would muddy the performance. With close micing, one can add room sound later by blending in a camera mic, but it's impossible to remove unwanted room sound from a recording done with a distant mic. (I'll usually add a camera mic at the end of a performance to capture the applause.)

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Off The Mark Veteran Member • Posts: 5,358
Re: live streams of acoustic concerts

uncle dunc wrote:

Off The Mark wrote:

If you have a BTS photo (or a shot where the light trees can be seen in action), I would really appreciate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVMVGC970D0

Light trees in the opening shot, and again at around 1:10. Those were the main lights, LED Par bulbs, two on each side, probably 250 watt rated. There were four 75 watt colored spot bulbs in the ceiling out in front of the stage, but they didn't do much. I also hung up a work light behind the drummer.

Light trees are made of 1 & 1/2" PVC pipe, which fits over a standard speaker stand. I drilled a hole near the bottom of the PVC pipe to run a bolt through to go through the bolt holes on the speaker stand. I put a Tee at the top, with maybe 12" of pipe on each side, drilled a hole, and hung the Par cans with a wingnut on the bolt. They used to sell these cheap par cans and speaker stands (two trees, two stands, 8 par cans with standard bulb sockets) for around $250. Now they're all LED flat panels with a computer chip control box, which is why I mentioned the used market.

For the shoot, I set up three GX85s (wide in the back of the room up high, Left, Right) and a G7, a Yi (GoPro wannbe) on me (piano player) and a Zcam E1 with a 7.5mm Laowa rectilinear lens behind the stage, all shooting 4k. The handheld camera is a Panasonic V750 camcorder, which only shoots 1080p. The color doesn't match, but on a shoot like this, it doesn't really matter. I also used my Samsung phone on a gimbal for some random shots from the crowd when I wasn't on stage. The zooms on the stationary 4k cameras are all done in editing, rendering to a 1080p output.

Sound was recorded by the guitar player, using his QSC mixer to capture 16 tracks to a usb stick to be mixed later. It was a throw-together show commemorating the 50th anniversary of Woodstock.

Getting back to the topic of this post (sound!) close micing is the only way to ensure a good sound recording. One might get lucky with a stereo mic out in front of the performers, but if it's a live room, which both of the example videos were, the room sound would muddy the performance. With close micing, one can add room sound later by blending in a camera mic, but it's impossible to remove unwanted room sound from a recording done with a distant mic. (I'll usually add a camera mic at the end of a performance to capture the applause.)

Thanks for posting the video. It was a nice watch. The guitarist did a nice job of capturing and mixing the audio. Everyone looked like they were having fun.

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What Middle School Is Really Like:
https://youtu.be/Q1Xtz5EqMuo

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Joe Lynch Senior Member • Posts: 2,381
Re: live streams of acoustic concerts

That was a great example and a fine write-up!   Thanks for that.  Great job on the editing, really liked how you punched in on the 4k shots.  Well done.

Joe

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Entropy512 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,304
Re: live streams of acoustic concerts
1

ksrvpvl wrote:

Please advise the broadcasting equipment. now i'm shooting on Panasonic v770 + blackmagic web presenter. I need help finding video and audio equipment to improve broadcasts.

need a camera for poor lighting, work from a constant power source. also i cant solve the problem of audio recording. the sound is recorded on the camera. what microphones should i use? my budget is 3000 dollars

broadcast examples

https://vk.com/video-1083731_456239253

https://vk.com/video-1083731_456239246

I can't view the videos at the moment for clarification, but people's variations of "acoustic" sometimes differ.

Some consider it to be no mics or amplification of any sort at all, others consider it to be "not using instruments designed for electrification" but with amplification via a close microphone being OK.

If no amplification at all - you'll need to add close-micing just for the broadcast.

If it's "not using instruments designed for electrification" (e.g. acoustic guitar with a close mic feeding a sound board), then you might want to try to feed off of the venue's soundboard.

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robertfel Senior Member • Posts: 1,992
Re: live streams of acoustic concerts
1

Ideally, you would want to monitor the audio, which means wireless. A Sony UWP-D or Sennheiser G4 are your best bets. You would send that signal into a mixer that has enough channels for all your instruments and singers. I agree with the other poster that wrote 2 mics for piano is best.

I would go with 4 mics. When you have that giant group of 10ish people, spread them out with 'plant' mics; not attached to a person, but picking up the room. 4 sets of Sony UWP-D and a Zoom F6 recorder is your entire budget. The included lav mics are mediocre and need to be replaced, something like a Deity W.Lav Pro is a good option, but you're already out of money.

I'm not sure how much time you have between performances, the video lagged/stuttered, so I didn't watch much. Changing mics between performances from person to person might be a problem if you're solo.

If you could do some post-production, meaning not a live stream, another option is a lot of Zoom F2-BTs, $230 each. They're 32-bit which is nice when a singer gets loud, you hopefully won't clip. I would get 6-10 of those and simply mic everyone before and let them run. A Zoom F6 or UltraSync Blue can sync them all up for your timeline in post-production.

Rode Go II's are an option for the livestream. You can have up to 4 pairs in one space, they're $300 per set. But 2.4G isn't very reliable with other people's phone putting out wifi and bluetooth in the same room. They have a backup recording, but that does you no good in a livestream. You can string all those dual receivers into a Zoom F8n and adjust levels from the receivers. Feed the whole thing out to whatever your streaming device is.

Here's a cool video covering a remote livestream setup: https://youtu.be/EZtY_p1WxM4 You can use a phone into the ATEM Mini Pro and stream to YouTube or Facebook or whatever else you need. You could do a live mix with different cameras.

Ideally, you'd want multiple cameras. I saw some performers totally blocking others from view. If the family of the person in the back wanted to see him/her live, they'd be disappointed. I would mount a GoPro up high, have a stationary camera with wide view and a 3rd camera with long lens for closeups which you move around as you livestream. It's a ton of work, but I've done this, client loved it.

If they don't let you bring lights, get some 1.4 lenses. Everyone is getting 4K cameras these days. You can buy some cheap used mirrorless cameras that only output HD.

There are a thousand different things you can get to cover a live performance. Way too many options.

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