Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
joe173 Contributing Member • Posts: 551
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

D Cox wrote:

joe173 wrote:

D Cox wrote:

If you have Photoshop, there is a Sigma plugin that can be used to import X3F files. Definitely worth trying.

I wonder if it works in Elements ?

I don't like Joe's advice to take fewer photos.

Don

Oh. I should have rephrased. Take photos only worth your time and within the domain of such a wonderfully built eccentric little camera! For myself I found 20-40 photos per event was more than enough, and around 100 for a multiday trip. Any more and I found processing too tedious. SPP has gotten faster over the years as has hardware.

I really did learn how to make each shutter click count. it made me slow down and think. It made me learn to carry around a small tripod and accessories. I always watched the heat and tried to keep the camera cool. I learned how to stack images in photoacute. I learned and used every setting in SPP for each photo.

In that case I agree. This is the approach I carried over from film. A DP-M battery is like a cassette of 35mm film.

If I were shooting sports I would use a different camera and take far more photos, or perhaps extract frames from video.

Don

Exactly. This is a quirky little camera due to the vast amount of data being generated by the sensor. It's really wonderful for certain uses, but lacking in others. I did buy the AC adapter so I can use an external power source/large battery. But the processing slowness always made me consolidate the number of photos taken. I always saved in 16-bit TIFF and backed up to name-brand Bluray discs, same as I did with my 1-2GB 35mm slide film scans.

geni1105 Regular Member • Posts: 141
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
2

EEvan wrote:

stansbca wrote:

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

As for X3F tools, my issues were related to color casts and highlights. I believe I was one of the first "civilians" to use the tool and wrote a bit about about it early on. However, since then, I haven't messed with it. I just wasn't sure if there have been

updates or best practices?

Make sure you use the wrapper utility. It does two things, it tries to fix the color cast, and it gives you meta data.

The highlights problem is easily fixed by using the free adobe DNG converter (losslessly reencodes it). It has the added benefit that it compresses the DNG's better.

Make sure to replace the "opcodes" by the ones available under https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vd601dndp465oq9/AACR7B1D91oiDu3ihvTkTbgKa?dl=0

(I made an embarrassing mistake for the ones that went into the official version; for the DP2M and DP3M they are all the same for all apertures, so will not work equally well for all apertures ...)

BTW, for Merrills it is better to use the 0.56 Beta 3 of X3F Wrapper than 0.57.
See https://github.com/Kalpanika/x3f_wrapper/issues/4

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OP stansbca Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

Ok, I have X3f Tools running using the wrapper (0.56v3). I then run those through the DNG converter. Everything is very red. I must be missing something.

I am trying multiple RAW processors. That was Dark Table. Capture 1 seems to be working, but files largely have a greenish tinge to them. Still seems workable and SUPER fast. ON Raw was very blue. I'll keep reporting as I learn.

I may also try Luminar, but they make you purchase first and THEN have a money back guarantee. Not sure I'm into that.

geni1105 Regular Member • Posts: 141
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
2

stansbca wrote:

Ok, I have X3f Tools running using the wrapper (0.56v3). I then run those through the DNG converter. Everything is very red. I must be missing something.

I am trying multiple RAW processors. That was Dark Table. Capture 1 seems to be working, but files largely have a greenish tinge to them. Still seems workable and SUPER fast. ON Raw was very blue. I'll keep reporting as I learn.

I may also try Luminar, but they make you purchase first and THEN have a money back guarantee. Not sure I'm into that.

Yes, unfortunately many raw converters do not support the DNG files created by x3f tools / Kalpanika.

Some cannot read the linear DNG format (I have an old version of Luminar that crashes), some do not interpret the white balance data correctly, some do not interpret the opcodes used for Merrill color cast correction (for example Capture 1).
I found that Adobe programs (Lighroom, ACR) work correctly, no wonder - they are the inventors of the DNG format. Also Picktorial seems to work.

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D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 31,012
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
1

geni1105 wrote:

stansbca wrote:

Ok, I have X3f Tools running using the wrapper (0.56v3). I then run those through the DNG converter. Everything is very red. I must be missing something.

I am trying multiple RAW processors. That was Dark Table. Capture 1 seems to be working, but files largely have a greenish tinge to them. Still seems workable and SUPER fast. ON Raw was very blue. I'll keep reporting as I learn.

I may also try Luminar, but they make you purchase first and THEN have a money back guarantee. Not sure I'm into that.

Yes, unfortunately many raw converters do not support the DNG files created by x3f tools / Kalpanika.

Some cannot read the linear DNG format (I have an old version of Luminar that crashes), some do not interpret the white balance data correctly, some do not interpret the opcodes used for Merrill color cast correction (for example Capture 1).
I found that Adobe programs (Lighroom, ACR) work correctly, no wonder - they are the inventors of the DNG format. Also Picktorial seems to work.

Affinity Photo is another that doesn't handle linear DNG. I hadn't heard of Picktorial; it looks interesting.

Don

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xpatUSA
xpatUSA Forum Pro • Posts: 21,358
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
1

geni1105 wrote:

stansbca wrote:

Ok, I have X3f Tools running using the wrapper (0.56v3). I then run those through the DNG converter. Everything is very red. I must be missing something.

Yes, unfortunately many raw converters do not support the DNG files created by x3f tools / Kalpanika.

Some cannot read the linear DNG format (I have an old version of Luminar that crashes), some do not interpret the white balance data correctly, some do not interpret the opcodes used for Merrill color cast correction (for example Capture 1).
I found that Adobe programs (Lighroom, ACR) work correctly, no wonder - they are the inventors of the DNG format. Also Picktorial seems to work.

More about Linear DNG (old article but still relevant):

http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm#what

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OP stansbca Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

D Cox wrote:

geni1105 wrote:

stansbca wrote:

Ok, I have X3f Tools running using the wrapper (0.56v3). I then run those through the DNG converter. Everything is very red. I must be missing something.

I am trying multiple RAW processors. That was Dark Table. Capture 1 seems to be working, but files largely have a greenish tinge to them. Still seems workable and SUPER fast. ON Raw was very blue. I'll keep reporting as I learn.

I may also try Luminar, but they make you purchase first and THEN have a money back guarantee. Not sure I'm into that.

Yes, unfortunately many raw converters do not support the DNG files created by x3f tools / Kalpanika.

Some cannot read the linear DNG format (I have an old version of Luminar that crashes), some do not interpret the white balance data correctly, some do not interpret the opcodes used for Merrill color cast correction (for example Capture 1).
I found that Adobe programs (Lighroom, ACR) work correctly, no wonder - they are the inventors of the DNG format. Also Picktorial seems to work.

Affinity Photo is another that doesn't handle linear DNG. I hadn't heard of Picktorial; it looks interesting.

Don

Correct you are on Affinity. I own that and Pixelmator and neither works. Great programs, but no luck on these DNGs. BTW, I really appreciate all of this help.

OP stansbca Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

geni1105 wrote:

stansbca wrote:

Ok, I have X3f Tools running using the wrapper (0.56v3). I then run those through the DNG converter. Everything is very red. I must be missing something.

I am trying multiple RAW processors. That was Dark Table. Capture 1 seems to be working, but files largely have a greenish tinge to them. Still seems workable and SUPER fast. ON Raw was very blue. I'll keep reporting as I learn.

I may also try Luminar, but they make you purchase first and THEN have a money back guarantee. Not sure I'm into that.

Yes, unfortunately many raw converters do not support the DNG files created by x3f tools / Kalpanika.

Some cannot read the linear DNG format (I have an old version of Luminar that crashes), some do not interpret the white balance data correctly, some do not interpret the opcodes used for Merrill color cast correction (for example Capture 1).
I found that Adobe programs (Lighroom, ACR) work correctly, no wonder - they are the inventors of the DNG format. Also Picktorial seems to work.

I tried Picktorial and can't say it looks any different than Capture 1. I am about to try Lightroom. I am hoping that's not the only option that works. Not only is it expensive, but I find Adobe's business practices pretty abysmal.

Edit: Capture 1, Picktorial, and Lightroom look about the same. I am still getting greenish casts relative to SPP.

OP stansbca Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

Capture 1 with Auto Adjust

Lightroom with Auto Adjust

SPP with just a touch of Fill Light

Here is a random shot of Mammoth Falls in Yellowstone. Seems both Lightroom and Capture 1 are fighting color casts. The even whiteness seen in SPP is most accurate (not to say it doesn't need a bit of warmth to look best).

xpatUSA
xpatUSA Forum Pro • Posts: 21,358
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
1

stansbca wrote:

<> I am about to try Lightroom. I am hoping that's not the only option that works. Not only is it expensive, but I find Adobe's business practices pretty abysmal.

+1! My computer is Adobe-free ...

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Just interested in the technology.

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geni1105 Regular Member • Posts: 141
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

stansbca wrote:

Capture 1 with Auto Adjust

Lightroom with Auto Adjust

SPP with just a touch of Fill Light

Here is a random shot of Mammoth Falls in Yellowstone. Seems both Lightroom and Capture 1 are fighting color casts. The even whiteness seen in SPP is most accurate (not to say it doesn't need a bit of warmth to look best).

Can you post the x3f somewhere?

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OP stansbca Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

geni1105 wrote:

stansbca wrote:

Capture 1 with Auto Adjust

Lightroom with Auto Adjust

SPP with just a touch of Fill Light

Here is a random shot of Mammoth Falls in Yellowstone. Seems both Lightroom and Capture 1 are fighting color casts. The even whiteness seen in SPP is most accurate (not to say it doesn't need a bit of warmth to look best).

Can you post the x3f somewhere?

Let me know if this works: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gJwbUjI1yFiLrqpiyfGdNpuMuNo1asWE/view?usp=sharing

geni1105 Regular Member • Posts: 141
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

stansbca wrote:

geni1105 wrote:

stansbca wrote:

Capture 1 with Auto Adjust

Lightroom with Auto Adjust

SPP with just a touch of Fill Light

Here is a random shot of Mammoth Falls in Yellowstone. Seems both Lightroom and Capture 1 are fighting color casts. The even whiteness seen in SPP is most accurate (not to say it doesn't need a bit of warmth to look best).

Can you post the x3f somewhere?

Let me know if this works: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gJwbUjI1yFiLrqpiyfGdNpuMuNo1asWE/view?usp=sharing

This is what I get from ACR (should be identical in Lightroom):

ACR, Auto Adjust and manual whitebalancing on a structure in the center of the image.

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OP stansbca Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

Well that certainly looks wonderful. I will detail my process tonight and hopefully we can figure out what I'm screwing up.

OP stansbca Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

I am using v. 0.56.3 and replaced the Opcodes with the links I was suggested.

x3F tools settings

I then take those files into DNG Converter, which seems pretty straightforward:

DNG Converter Settings

Those are the files I am then opening with the unsavory results above.

I do get an exif file error. Not sure if that means certain info isn't getting pulled in?

Error Code

geni1105 Regular Member • Posts: 141
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
1

Exiftool needs to be installed, because it is used to copy vital metadata for color cast correction from the X3F to the DNG.

You need a version of exiftool <= 11.70, available here http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/E/EX/EXIFTOOL/

(newer versions have a command line parameter changed and are not compatible with X3F Wrapper 0.56b3)

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TN Args
TN Args Forum Pro • Posts: 10,439
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
2

stansbca wrote:

Capture 1 with Auto Adjust

Lightroom with Auto Adjust

SPP with just a touch of Fill Light

Here is a random shot of Mammoth Falls in Yellowstone. Seems both Lightroom and Capture 1 are fighting color casts. The even whiteness seen in SPP is most accurate (not to say it doesn't need a bit of warmth to look best).

Hi,

I don't think your SPP image above is on Auto WB, which is a bit unfair to compare with C1 and LR on Auto WB.

Below is what I get in SPP on Auto WB (left) compared to yours (right):-

Somewhat green cast on SPP with Auto WB

Just thought I would mention that Affinity Photo (AP) can process your X3F raw files. If the quality is good enough (I have never looked closely with Merrill files), then AP offers a great end-to-end editing solution with its Photoshop-like power.

I did a quick Auto-everything on your file with AP and compared it with SPP on Auto (and with its Sharpness at -2.0 for fairness), showing a 100% crop for you to look at. It's a start.

SPP left, AP right, 100% crop

cheers

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Iain G Foulds
Iain G Foulds Veteran Member • Posts: 5,175
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?

… TN: I did get AF for the iPad, but it will not download the DP2 Raw files to the iPad. It seems impossible to directly import the Raw files from the SD card.

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geni1105 Regular Member • Posts: 141
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
2

It‘s surprising that Affinity Photo can process X3Fs, but in my experience it does not correct for the usual Merrill color vignetting (like green tint in the corners for wider apertures).
I played around a bit with manual flat-fielding, but that was just too cumbersome.

Unfortunately AP cannot process Kalpanika DNGs.

BTW, Iridient Developer also can process X3Fs, however also with color vignetting.

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TN Args
TN Args Forum Pro • Posts: 10,439
Re: Current State-of-the-Art in SPP Processing Alternatives?
2

geni1105 wrote:

It‘s surprising that Affinity Photo can process X3Fs, but in my experience it does not correct for the usual Merrill color vignetting (like green tint in the corners for wider apertures).
I played around a bit with manual flat-fielding, but that was just too cumbersome.

Yes I don’t expect to see it deal with things like that. I think I saw some green vignetting in my test with the OP’s sample image.

With Quattro X3F there is no colour vignetting issue and AP does a great job.

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