DTP20 with X-Rite Pulse Color Elite on a Win 10 64 bit system.

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
sjwolfhope Regular Member • Posts: 437
DTP20 with X-Rite Pulse Color Elite on a Win 10 64 bit system.

Been a while since I have been on DPReview, a long while.

Moving my photo editing to a new Win 10 machine since older one running Win 7 crapped out. Loaded Pulse Color Elite on the new machine. No driver for the DTP20 was installed. And haven't been able to find one yet using Google. Anybody here successfully load it on a Win 10 64 bit machine. If so how. Program does load and I can print targets, just can't read them and generate a profile. Still have Pulse Color Elite loaded on another Win 7 machine but am hoping to have all the photo editing and printing programs on the new machine. Thanks for any help including that it can't be done.

Steve Wolfhope

Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,143
Hello long lost Steve!!!
2

haven't heard from you in a very long time!

Yes I'm running Pulse Color Elite on Win 10 without any problems.

I'll email you, do you still have the same Verizon email address as in 2010-2014?  I will give you the driver and set you up.

Bob P.

OP sjwolfhope Regular Member • Posts: 437
Re: Hello long lost Steve!!!

Hi Bob,

Yes it has been quite a long time. Haven't been printing nearly as much as I use to do, but I have a backlog of covered bridge pictures that I need to get filed on the computer and printed before I lose them.

Yes same email: my last name at verizon.net. Appreciate any help you can give me.

Steve Wolfhope

NAwlins Contrarian Veteran Member • Posts: 6,460
My experience

Moving my photo editing to a new Win 10 machine .... Loaded Pulse Color Elite on the new machine. No driver for the DTP20 was installed. And haven't been able to find one yet using Google. Anybody here successfully load it on a Win 10 64 bit machine. If so how. Program does load and I can print targets, just can't read them and generate a profile. Still have Pulse Color Elite loaded on another Win 7 machine but am hoping to have all the photo editing and printing programs on the new machine. Thanks for any help including that it can't be done.

Some time back I bought a really pristine Pulse Color Elite kit on eBay. Bob (Petruska) is the guru and hero of these devices, and he was extremely patient and helpful in my attempts to get mine running. Unfortunately I did not succeed. I don't know why, but my leading suspicion is that the battery inside mine is shot, and therefore to make it work I'd need a new battery (which I don't think is normally a user-replaceable item) or the AC adapter (which was not part of the usual kit, it was an optional accessory).

But the bigger warning is that even Bob says you can, and evidently I did, really mess up Windows in the process of trying to install it. Fixing that involved hours of headache. That's not to say you can't or won't succeed--you probably will. But be careful!

FWIW, I eventually got a used ColorMunki Photo on eBay, which has been working fine. Last I really looked, they were available in decent condition from reputable sellers for about $125.

But I'd still like to get that darn Pulse Color Elite working.

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Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,143
Steve, is up and running fine.........
1

he is scanning targets right now.

I agree that the ColorMunki is a better buy right now.

For others reading this The Pulse Color Elite DTP20 scanner is getting old and many won't calibrate anymore.  If you buy a total kit with the DTP20 for printer ICC profiles, it also comes with a DTP92 for monitor calibration, scanning guide/table, charger, I would not pay anymore than $25-30 for the kit, and have a seller that accepts returns if it doesn't calibrate.   The plus side of the Pulse system is that it makes the same great quality printer ICC profiles as the Xrite  I1PRO ($1K+), I have proved this by comparing 30K color points from both profiles using ColorThink Pro with the DeltaE's very low indeed.  There is also the hassle with making it work Win 10, but it is doable.....

Bob P.

reid thaler
reid thaler Senior Member • Posts: 1,699
Re: My experience
2

I just did this last week! If you open the DPT 20, be careful as you may cry when all the little mirrors fall out...

The driver at found at https://www.xrite.com/service-support/downloads/u/unified_32_and_64-bit_drivers_98_2000-xp_and_vista

You have to re-boot windows to start without requiring driver sign in:

Choose Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings and click the Restart button. When your computer restarts you'll see a list of options. Press F7 on your keyboard to select Disable driver signature enforcement. Your computer will now restart and you'll be able to install unsigned drivers.

Go to Device Manager and look for the DTP 20 and install by pointing to the unzipped driver folder.

And this is REALLY important:  Connect the DPT 20 via a USB hub and NOT directly to your computer or you may BSOD.

AND if you are really, really, luck it will all work--most of the time.  I've had mine read some test targets and not others.  It's making me think about another profiler.  Does the Color Munki Photo work well?  How many test patches?

It used to be that I needed to make profiles.  Now a lot of papers have their own to download.  Ditched my Espsons, and now running a Canon 4100.

-- hide signature --

Thanks!
Reid
Photography Education and Lightroom Instructor, San Francisco Bay Area
www.lumiograph.com
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Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,143
That is what Steve did........

reid thaler wrote:

I just did this last week! If you open the DPT 20, be careful as you may cry when all the little mirrors fall out...

The driver at found at https://www.xrite.com/service-support/downloads/u/unified_32_and_64-bit_drivers_98_2000-xp_and_vista

You have to re-boot windows to start without requiring driver sign in:

Choose Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings and click the Restart button. When your computer restarts you'll see a list of options. Press F7 on your keyboard to select Disable driver signature enforcement. Your computer will now restart and you'll be able to install unsigned drivers.

Go to Device Manager and look for the DTP 20 and install by pointing to the unzipped driver folder.

And this is REALLY important: Connect the DPT 20 via a USB hub and NOT directly to your computer or you may BSOD.

AND if you are really, really, luck it will all work--most of the time. I've had mine read some test targets and not others. It's making me think about another profiler. Does the Color Munki Photo work well? How many test patches?

It used to be that I needed to make profiles. Now a lot of papers have their own to download. Ditched my Espsons, and now running a Canon 4100.

Some computers' USB ports have enough power capability so a Powered USB Hub is not required.  Steve didn't need a Powered USB Hub

You should mention to easily get to Unsigned Driver Mode to hold the Shift Key down while clicking on the Power Icon , then click on Restart and it will take you to the Troubleshoot menu.

Bob P.

reid thaler
reid thaler Senior Member • Posts: 1,699
Re: That is what Steve did........

Petruska wrote:

You should mention to easily get to Unsigned Driver Mode to hold the Shift Key down while clicking on the Power Icon , then click on Restart and it will take you to the Troubleshoot menu.

Bob P.

Good to know.  Thanks!  The last DPT 20 I bought cost me 2 cookies (they were very good cookies)  from someone local I recognized on eBay.  But wondering how much longer my patience will hold out when I can profile some targets and not others, and can't manually calibrate it.

-- hide signature --

Thanks!
Reid
Photography Education and Lightroom Instructor, San Francisco Bay Area
www.lumiograph.com
Kodak Brownie
Argus 126
Quaker Oats Container Pinhole Camera

Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,143
Re: That is what Steve did........

reid thaler wrote:

Petruska wrote:

You should mention to easily get to Unsigned Driver Mode to hold the Shift Key down while clicking on the Power Icon , then click on Restart and it will take you to the Troubleshoot menu.

Bob P.

Good to know. Thanks! The last DPT 20 I bought cost me 2 cookies (they were very good cookies) from someone local I recognized on eBay. But wondering how much longer my patience will hold out when I can profile some targets and not others, and can't manually calibrate it.

I wonder why you can scan some charts and not others?   The chart print size is very critical.  You need to make sure that it is printed at the native size or there will be scanning issues.  Also the DTP20 scan swiping speed is also a factor.

I also have I an I1PRO and prefer the DTP20 for it's ease in scanning over the I1PRO.  You just need to tap the DTP20 button once to scan each row, with the I1PRO you need to hold the button down continuously for each row scan and it gets tiresome when doing many different papers with max patches.

Bob P.

NAwlins Contrarian Veteran Member • Posts: 6,460
About the ColorMunki Photo (my experience)

It's making me think about another profiler. Does the Color Munki Photo work well? How many test patches?

I find that the ColorMunki Photo works well by my standards. Although limited testing indicates I have good to very good color acuity, I'm strictly an amateur. Also, I have nothing to compare to which to compare my ColorMunki Photo profiles other than canned profiles, so maybe e.g. an i1 Photo Pro 3 would produce profiles that allow prints that are visibly better, even to me.

You can use a ColorMunki Photo with e.g. Argyll CMS and make printing profiles with as many patches as you want. But if you use the X-Rite (now Calibrite) software designed for it, the system is unusual. You don't simply print X number of patches and measure them. Instead you print a standard set of 50 patches, measure those, have the software calculate a second set of customized patches--another 50 patches for profiles for regular color printing or 100 patches for profiles for B&W printing--print those, measure those, and let the software build the ICC printing profile. In my use and experience, the profiles built this way are generally as good as or better than the canned profiles I have or can download. But this is mostly for my little old Epson R280 printer; for the Canon Pro-100 we have at work, I have had much better experiences getting good 'canned' profiles.

It used to be that I needed to make profiles. Now a lot of papers have their own to download. Ditched my Espsons, and now running a Canon 4100.

What you say makes sense, for multiple reasons. First, IIRC the Canon Pro-4100 has a self-linearization function that should enable a well-made 'canned' profile to work better with any other Pro-4100. Second, all the major paper companies probably have recently-made, high quality profiles for their papers in the Pro-4100. In many cases the paper company does not offer a profile for my old R280. For the Pro-100 at work, the only profile I had to build with the ColorMunki Photo was for Mitsubishi Pictorico Pro Hi-Gloss White Film, for which there doesn't seem to be a canned profile. I also made profiles for Inkpress Metallic Satin and Inkpress Metallic Glossy because Inkpress just said, 'Use the Canon profiles for Canon X paper, they'll be fine.' I did not really agree. Profiling metallic papers can be tricky, but overall I think the ones I build are probably an improvement.

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reid thaler
reid thaler Senior Member • Posts: 1,699
Re: That is what Steve did........

s and not others? The chart print size is very critical. You need to make sure that it is printed at the native size or there will be scanning issues. Also the DTP20 scan swiping speed is also a factor.

I'll double check the print size. I've been printing with the Adobe Color Printer Utility to print with no profile for the test images.  I thought it may be an ink density issue.

I also have I an I1PRO and prefer the DTP20 for it's ease in scanning over the I1PRO. You just need to tap the DTP20 button once to scan each row, with the I1PRO you need to hold the button down continuously for each row scan and it gets tiresome when doing many different papers with max patches.

Bob P.

Talk about learning something new everyday.  I've held the button until I got to the end of the row.   I've done it so long that way it may be hard to stop!

-- hide signature --

Thanks!
Reid
Photography Education and Lightroom Instructor, San Francisco Bay Area
www.lumiograph.com
Kodak Brownie
Argus 126
Quaker Oats Container Pinhole Camera

Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,143
Re: That is what Steve did........

reid thaler wrote:

s and not others? The chart print size is very critical. You need to make sure that it is printed at the native size or there will be scanning issues. Also the DTP20 scan swiping speed is also a factor.

I'll double check the print size. I've been printing with the Adobe Color Printer Utility to print with no profile for the test images. I thought it may be an ink density issue.

I also have I an I1PRO and prefer the DTP20 for it's ease in scanning over the I1PRO. You just need to tap the DTP20 button once to scan each row, with the I1PRO you need to hold the button down continuously for each row scan and it gets tiresome when doing many different papers with max patches.

Bob P.

Talk about learning something new everyday. I've held the button until I got to the end of the row. I've done it so long that way it may be hard to stop!

The ACPU should work fine.  Have you tried printing directly from  Pulse Color Elite app to see if there is any scanning improvement.

You just click the DTP20 button once, it will beep, at the beginning of row scan, at the end of row scan it will beep twice.  It will be a much easier and controlled  slide without holding the button down,  I assume that you are using the guide rail to scan?  I scan a row in about 2 seconds.

Bob P.

reid thaler
reid thaler Senior Member • Posts: 1,699
Re: That is what Steve did........

The ACPU should work fine. Have you tried printing directly from Pulse Color Elite app to see if there is any scanning improvement.

I'll give that a try and than may take out one less variable.  I guess I started using the Adobe program when they took out the ability to print with no color management out of Photoshop.

You just click the DTP20 button once, it will beep, at the beginning of row scan, at the end of row scan it will beep twice. It will be a much easier and controlled slide without holding the button down, I assume that you are using the guide rail to scan? I scan a row in about 2 seconds.

Bob P.

Will try.

Hard to think you can get as good of a printer profile from the Munki or Studio when one is 54 patches and the other is 724

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Thanks!
Reid
Photography Education and Lightroom Instructor, San Francisco Bay Area
www.lumiograph.com
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reid thaler
reid thaler Senior Member • Posts: 1,699
Re: That is what Steve did........

The ACPU should work fine. Have you tried printing directly from Pulse Color Elite app to see if there is any scanning improvement.

I just printed directly from the Pulse app and read with no issue.

Still not sure of what to make about not being able to calibrate either through the app or manually.  Do you find much difference between D50 and D65?

And perceptual vs relative?  I find it varies.

And you find there is much difference letting the test target sit before measurement?  Mine was about 5 minutes out of the print, dry, and I was so excited reading the first row, I didn't want to stop!

-- hide signature --

Thanks!
Reid
Photography Education and Lightroom Instructor, San Francisco Bay Area
www.lumiograph.com
Kodak Brownie
Argus 126
Quaker Oats Container Pinhole Camera

Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,143
Re: That is what Steve did........
1

reid thaler wrote:

The ACPU should work fine. Have you tried printing directly from Pulse Color Elite app to see if there is any scanning improvement.

I just printed directly from the Pulse app and read with no issue.

It can be print size related, the print needs to print with exact dimensions or it will fail to scan properly.  I have attached  the scan print with the required dimensions below.

Still not sure of what to make about not being able to calibrate either through the app or manually.

Do you mean calibrating using the white disc?  Do you have problems doing so?  Most older DTP20's seem to not be able to calibrate after a certain length of time.  I have 3 DTP20's that won't calibrate any longer, but still produce excellent profiles.  I also have 3 DTP20's that still calibrate just fine.

Do you find much difference between D50 and D65?

Yes  my profiles will give me very subtle different results between the D50 and D65.

And perceptual vs relative? I find it varies.

I don't knoww hat you are asking here?  You either choose the perceptual or relative intent when printing based upon what colors are out of gamut and soft proofing  results.

And you find there is much difference letting the test target sit before measurement? Mine was about 5 minutes out of the print, dry, and I was so excited reading the first row, I didn't want to stop!

I let all my target prints dry about 24 hours.  I ran a test once spot measuring some control patches over a 24 hour drying period and they stopped changing values at about 12 hours with Epson pigment inks, I just let them dry the full 24 hours.

I also regenerate all my paper ICC profiles once a year as the ink can change and the printer characteristics change.  Plus it gives me something to do during the long winter months with all the spectros that I have...............

reid thaler
reid thaler Senior Member • Posts: 1,699
Re: That is what Steve did........

I also regenerate all my paper ICC profiles once a year as the ink can change and the printer characteristics change. Plus it gives me something to do during the long winter months with all the spectros that I have...............

Thanks!

You must have given the DTP names to keep them straighten out.  I have a couple of dead ones in the drawer.

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Reid
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Petruska Veteran Member • Posts: 9,143
Re: That is what Steve did........

reid thaler wrote:

I also regenerate all my paper ICC profiles once a year as the ink can change and the printer characteristics change. Plus it gives me something to do during the long winter months with all the spectros that I have...............

Thanks!

You must have given the DTP names to keep them straighten out. I have a couple of dead ones in the drawer.

Just masking tape that states Cal or no-Cal.........

I also have 3, I1PROs. My first one is an ES-1000 (rebranded I1PRO) with no scanning guide, got that for $60,

Then I bought one last year for $135 with the complete kit, I though that was a great deal. 8 days later I see an Ebay auction about to end with no bids for an I1PRO Basic. I guess that I1Basic listing title didn't attract the I1Pro buying crowd. I bid the minimum $49.99, won and it was a brand new I1PRO kit in a shrink wrapped box, with only 5 seconds of factory test time on the lamp!!!! I felt like I won PowerBall, that I1Pro normally sold for $1K or more not long ago.

What I'm getting at is that there are very good bargains out there on Ebay, just set up a search to have auto-emails sent when new listings appear.

I'm 71 and probably a a calibrator hoarder. I really don't need anymore spectros but I should get a I1 Studio just to see how well the profiles compare between the DTP20 - I1PRO - I1 Studio..........

Bob P.

NAwlins Contrarian Veteran Member • Posts: 6,460
See, I'm not crazy.

And you find there is much difference letting the test target sit before measurement? Mine was about 5 minutes out of the print, dry, and I was so excited reading the first row, I didn't want to stop!

I let all my target prints dry about 24 hours. I ran a test once spot measuring some control patches over a 24 hour drying period and they stopped changing values at about 12 hours with Epson pigment inks, I just let them dry the full 24 hours.

I do about the same: I never measure a printed profiling target less than 24 hours after printing, and I prefer to wait 48 hours. There are some papers (Red River Pecos River Gloss comes to mind) that seem to shift quite visibly long after the 10 or 15 minutes that the software recommends waiting. I figure if I can readily see a change between what a print looks like e.g. 30 minutes after printing and how it ultimately looks, then measurable changes may be occurring for substantially longer, especially in my humid house (in the warmer months it probably averages close to 60% RH). FWIW this is with Epson dye inks.

I worried that I was a bit crazy, seeing things, indulging a superstition / fetish. But your finding of measurable changes out to 12 hours--probably in lower humidity at this--makes me think my approach is pretty reasonable.

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A Owens Veteran Member • Posts: 3,562
Re: About the ColorMunki Photo (my experience)

NAwlins Contrarian wrote:

It's making me think about another profiler. Does the Color Munki Photo work well? How many test patches?

I find that the ColorMunki Photo works well by my standards. Although limited testing indicates I have good to very good color acuity, I'm strictly an amateur. Also, I have nothing to compare to which to compare my ColorMunki Photo profiles other than canned profiles, so maybe e.g. an i1 Photo Pro 3 would produce profiles that allow prints that are visibly better, even to me.

You can use a ColorMunki Photo with e.g. Argyll CMS and make printing profiles with as many patches as you want. But if you use the X-Rite (now Calibrite) software designed for it, the system is unusual. You don't simply print X number of patches and measure them. Instead you print a standard set of 50 patches, measure those, have the software calculate a second set of customized patches--another 50 patches for profiles for regular color printing or 100 patches for profiles for B&W printing--print those, measure those, and let the software build the ICC printing profile. In my use and experience, the profiles built this way are generally as good as or better than the canned profiles I have or can download. But this is mostly for my little old Epson R280 printer; for the Canon Pro-100 we have at work, I have had much better experiences getting good 'canned' profiles.

It used to be that I needed to make profiles. Now a lot of papers have their own to download. Ditched my Espsons, and now running a Canon 4100.

What you say makes sense, for multiple reasons. First, IIRC the Canon Pro-4100 has a self-linearization function that should enable a well-made 'canned' profile to work better with any other Pro-4100. Second, all the major paper companies probably have recently-made, high quality profiles for their papers in the Pro-4100. In many cases the paper company does not offer a profile for my old R280. For the Pro-100 at work, the only profile I had to build with the ColorMunki Photo was for Mitsubishi Pictorico Pro Hi-Gloss White Film, for which there doesn't seem to be a canned profile. I also made profiles for Inkpress Metallic Satin and Inkpress Metallic Glossy because Inkpress just said, 'Use the Canon profiles for Canon X paper, they'll be fine.' I did not really agree. Profiling metallic papers can be tricky, but overall I think the ones I build are probably an improvement.

Interesting to hear the Colormunki gives good results without having to read huge quantity of patches. I have also heard that from others.

But how does it linearize the output? Thanks.

NAwlins Contrarian Veteran Member • Posts: 6,460
Re: About the ColorMunki Photo (my experience)

I find that the ColorMunki Photo works well by my standards. Although limited testing indicates I have good to very good color acuity, I'm strictly an amateur....

Interesting to hear the Colormunki gives good results without having to read huge quantity of patches. I have also heard that from others.

Part of it is that after measuring the first, standard set of 50 patches, it custom-designs a second set of an additional 50 or 100 patches, presumably in a way that intelligently identifies and focuses on the problem areas. My personal take is that the X-Rite algorithm seems to be quite intelligent at this. Depending on how linear the printer is, I can imagine this may well be every bit as effective / accurate as the more usual 'brute force' approach of a single, pre-determined and typically evenly-spaced group of e.g. 729 patches (a 9x9x9 matrix) or 1728 patches (a 12x12x12 matrix). I suspect that this approach works better for some printers (and some papers) than for others. I'm not aware of any comparative tests, but conducting them would be interesting. Maybe somebody would like to run some experiments.

But how does it linearize the output? Thanks.

What do you mean "linearize the output"? AFAIK the Canon Pro-1000, 2000, 2100, 4000, 4100, 6000, and 6100 all have an internal system (hardware and firmware) to linearize their output in the sense of making each ink channel conform to output specifications. That's what I meant by linearize. But no profiling system--not a ColorMunki Photo or even an i1 Photo Pro 3--can linearize a printer. All such systems do it profile the printer, that is, characterize its behavior, i.e., measure what colors it puts out with various combinations of inputs. Once that behavior is characterized, the ICC profile built from the characterization allows the printing software to accurately print any color within the achievable gamut.

Put another way: we calibrate and profile monitors because we can adjust monitors' physical behavior with regular user-accessible controls. We cannot calibrate most printers, because most of them do not have such user-accessible controls. The aforementioned Canon pro printers have built-in calibration, which AFAIK the user can trigger but not otherwise control or affect. Regardless, for all printers, we can profile them, i.e., measure their actual behavior, and then account for that to print accurate color.

Does that make sense?

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