Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

Started 8 months ago | Questions
Mike200927 New Member • Posts: 13
Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

Next year I will visit the famous Isle of Man TT motorbike race.

For this event I want to buy a point-and- shoot camera. I'm not a pro and don't want to carry a large camera with all kind of different parts.

I know point-and-shoot has it limitations but I am ok with that. I assume I must have a camera which is fast and has a good burst mode.

Can someone advise me which camera's can do this, specific, job?

Thanks a lot, Mike

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 201
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

Mike this is going to be a difficult challenge because not all PNS's are capable of focusing fast enough to capture fast moving objects. so you may end up with blurred motion images unless that's what you want. You may need to invest in a gopro as these have bene designed to do just that. Taking a video of the event then isolating single still images from the camera.

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing
4

Mike200927 wrote:

Next year I will visit the famous Isle of Man TT motorbike race.

For this event I want to buy a point-and- shoot camera. I'm not a pro and don't want to carry a large camera with all kind of different parts.

I know point-and-shoot has it limitations but I am ok with that. I assume I must have a camera which is fast and has a good burst mode.

Can someone advise me which camera's can do this, specific, job?

Thanks a lot, Mike

I've done a fair amount of photography with road racing, and I think that it depends on you, and the type of shot you want to take. To get a decent hit rate some kinds of shot demand top level AF and an OVF. Others are well within the reach of a compact. For close-in shots trying to track the action, none of the three cameras I have with an EVF is any good at all, for those, a DSLR is a much better option. That's a personal thing, when I've said this before others have said that they find an EVF fine. For other kinds of shot, where you're tracking a bike at distance, and the movement is quite predictable, an EVF can work OK. Road racing is likely to have more shots in the first category than the latter. In circuit racing if you haven't a press pass you can't get very close and the tracks are predictable, so you have more of a chance.

The thing is, you don't have to carry a camera with 'all kinds of different parts'. One camera and lens will do it. But it wants to be one with decent AF, and I really would go for an OVF. I'd suggest something like a Nikon D7500, or Canon 80d or 90D, even an secondhand 7D. Couple that with a good 'consumer grade' 70-300 zoom, and you should be able to grab some pretty good shots.

But, whatever you get, you'll need to practice. Don't think that you'll be able to just turn up and get excellent shots. You'll have spent a day or two there and most of what you get will be rubbish. Spend some time before just practising photographing the traffic on a reasonably fast road. Learn how to pick up focus, track and pan, and how to judge when to fire off the shutter. You don't in fact need a huge burst rate if you get the knack of knowing when to press the shutter. If you have 6FPS, you'll pick up maybe four versions of each event, with 10 FPS it will be five, with 14 maybe six, so not an enormous difference.

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Ontarian Senior Member • Posts: 2,965
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing
3

The Sony RX10 iv is highly regarded as the best bridge camera and has a 24-600 fixed lens, fast focussing and great focus tracking  . Post your question on the Sony Cyber-shot Talk and the Sport and Action Photography forums to see what their members have to say about autosports.

Don

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OP Mike200927 New Member • Posts: 13
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

Thanks, this had not crossed my mind yet.

OP Mike200927 New Member • Posts: 13
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

A second hand might indeed also be an option. I will only use this camera during TT so a new set is far to expensive. A second hand for the price of a compact camera is not so bad. Thanks for, all your, advise.

OP Mike200927 New Member • Posts: 13
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

Ok, thanks I will do that.

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing
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Mike200927 wrote:

A second hand might indeed also be an option. I will only use this camera during TT so a new set is far to expensive. A second hand for the price of a compact camera is not so bad. Thanks for, all your, advise.

I would suggest buying second hand and selling after if it's really a one off. But if it is, I'd suggest the whole thing is maybe a bit misguided. You won't get much in the way of satisfying shots without a lot of practice first,  and that seems like a lot of investment in time for a one-off. Another suggestion would be to concentrate on the people rather than the racing. Buy a paddock pass, and you can get a lot of interesting stuff, and talk to interesting people. Plus the spectators at road racing can be interesting in their own right.

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PhotoTeach2 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,350
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

Mike200927 wrote:

Ok, thanks I will do that.

I totally support the consideration of RX10-IV.

It is NOT a (typical) P&S that indeed used to have unacceptable AF delay/lag.

Actually, the newer (P&S) "BRIDGE" cameras are faster (both in fps and AF-lag) than most other ML or dSLR's in their price range.

The RX10-IV has a 9 to 34ms shutter/AF-lag @ 25fps, (only surpassed by the A1/A9 at a much-much higher price).

Klaus dk
Klaus dk Veteran Member • Posts: 8,816
There's more ...

While I've no doubt the RX10 IV is a great camera for the purpose, it might interest the OP that the current price new at amazon.co.uk is GBP 2153.

If one understands the concept of manual prefocusing and panning with the subject, much can be achieved with lesser gear. When you want to show speed, freezing the motion isn't the best way.

I agree with everyone else that some preparation and practice is necessary. This is a field where you can't expect to get good shots, no matter what camera you bring, if you have no practice.

Good luck and good light.

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Jestertheclown
Jestertheclown Veteran Member • Posts: 3,766
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

bobn2 wrote:

none of the three cameras I have with an EVF is any good at all, for those, a DSLR is a much better option. That's a personal thing, when I've said this before others have said that they find an EVF fine.

And I'm one of those people!

I was at Santa Pod Raceway last Sunday, fairly close to the start line but the fuel cars were still passing me at more than a hundred miles an hour.

Admittedly, my panning was a bit hit and miss; I don't do it very often but my success rate was pretty high.

I was using a Z7 with, obviously, an EVF but had none of he problems that get mentioned, blackouts, smearing, lag etc. that certain posters keep on about on here.

In fact the biggest problem that I had was being able to manoeuvre the 100-400 lens on the front of it.

I'd suggest something like a Nikon D7500, or Canon 80d or 90D, even an secondhand 7D. Couple that with a good 'consumer grade' 70-300 zoom, and you should be able to grab some pretty good shots.

I think you're right re. the D7500. I've no experience of Canons.

I've had quite a lot of success with my D7200 at air shows; not quite the same thing, I know but you're still picking up and chasing your subject, however, using a 'consumer grade' 70-300 was what limited that success.

I used to use an AF-P 70-300 DX and while it generally produced excellent results, I found that it was slow to find focus at, well, air shows.

I'd imagine you'd find the same limitations at the IOM.

But, whatever you get, you'll need to practice.

Yes.

Spend some time before just practising photographing the traffic on a reasonably fast road.

Best place I found to practice was the approach or exit roads from a busy roundabout. Depending where you stand, you'll get traffic accelerating or braking.

Motorbikes, braking and turning in make great subjects on which to practice. They're usually moving quickly and they're nimble enough to make your work for your shots.

Learn how to pick up focus, track and pan, and how to judge when to fire off the shutter. You don't in fact need a huge burst rate if you get the knack of knowing when to press the shutter. If you have 6FPS, you'll pick up maybe four versions of each event, with 10 FPS it will be five, with 14 maybe six, so not an enormous difference.

'Spray and pray.'

I suppose that method will work, but also try to get one shot at a time. You'll be surprised just how much time you have to compose and get each shot. And it saves you trawling through hundreds of shots that you're going to throw away.

Good luck.

I envy you a trip to the Island!

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing
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Jestertheclown wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

none of the three cameras I have with an EVF is any good at all, for those, a DSLR is a much better option. That's a personal thing, when I've said this before others have said that they find an EVF fine.

And I'm one of those people!

I was at Santa Pod Raceway last Sunday, fairly close to the start line but the fuel cars were still passing me at more than a hundred miles an hour.

Admittedly, my panning was a bit hit and miss; I don't do it very often but my success rate was pretty high.

I was using a Z7 with, obviously, an EVF but had none of he problems that get mentioned, blackouts, smearing, lag etc. that certain posters keep on about on here.

In fact the biggest problem that I had was being able to manoeuvre the 100-400 lens on the front of it.

Drag racing is a reasonably simple case. The cars might be going fast, but the direction and speed is quite predictable. It's a completely different kettle of fist to motorbike road racing. I have a Z6 and have found it to be no good at all for that. But it is individual. The problem is with something called proprioception, the ability to predict location and movement. The  EVF delay, which is unavoidable, interferes with the neural feedback loops on which this depends, and can make them completely unstable. Whether or not it does depends on the individual. That's why I hesitate to say that an EVF is fine or is no good, you can't predict for someone else. I suspect that the newer EVFs will shorten the delay to the point where it is outside the problem range for most people.

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Jestertheclown
Jestertheclown Veteran Member • Posts: 3,766
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

bobn2 wrote:

Drag racing is a reasonably simple case. The cars might be going fast, but the direction and speed is quite predictable. It's a completely different kettle of fist to motorbike road racing.

Sorry but as a one-time drag racer and circuit racer (on motorcycles) and veteran spectator at many years of motorcycle GPs., I can't agree with that.

Drag racers may only travel in one direction but the speed and behaviour of the vehicles is anything but predictable.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a motorcycle, heading into a corner is much more so. Particularly, if you know how to ride one and can understand what the rider's doing.

I have a Z6 and have found it to be no good at all for that. But it is individual.

It would seem so.

I have no problems at all, whereas you have loads.

The problem is with something called proprioception, the ability to predict location and movement. The EVF delay, which is unavoidable, interferes with the neural feedback loops on which this depends, and can make them completely unstable. Whether or not it does depends on the individual. That's why I hesitate to say that an EVF is fine or is no good, you can't predict for someone else. I suspect that the newer EVFs will shorten the delay to the point where it is outside the problem range for most people.

You see, I never see any EVF delay, or any of the other supposed issues.

Perhaps my erm, neural feedback loops are in better nick than yours . . .

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing
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Jestertheclown wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Drag racing is a reasonably simple case. The cars might be going fast, but the direction and speed is quite predictable. It's a completely different kettle of fist to motorbike road racing.

Sorry but as a one-time drag racer and circuit racer (on motorcycles) and veteran spectator at many years of motorcycle GPs., I can't agree with that.

Drag racers may only travel in one direction but the speed and behaviour of the vehicles is anything but predictable.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a motorcycle, heading into a corner is much more so. Particularly, if you know how to ride one and can understand what the rider's doing.

OK, I defer to your experience.

I have a Z6 and have found it to be no good at all for that. But it is individual.

It would seem so.

I have no problems at all, whereas you have loads.

And I'm not the only one.

The problem is with something called proprioception, the ability to predict location and movement. The EVF delay, which is unavoidable, interferes with the neural feedback loops on which this depends, and can make them completely unstable. Whether or not it does depends on the individual. That's why I hesitate to say that an EVF is fine or is no good, you can't predict for someone else. I suspect that the newer EVFs will shorten the delay to the point where it is outside the problem range for most people.

You see, I never see any EVF delay, or any of the other supposed issues.

First, lay off the sarcasm, if you please. This is an actual issue, not something I have made up.

And of course you don't see it. Neither do I. But you don't have to see it for it to interfere with proprioception.

Perhaps my erm, neural feedback loops are in better nick than yours . . .

It's not really a matter of being in better nick, it's just a matter of how an individuals work and how the camera works. Feedback loops can be made unstable by the insertion of delay, it's a fundamental property that they have. Whether or not they are depends on the characteristics of the loop and the delay. That's just how it works.

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Jestertheclown
Jestertheclown Veteran Member • Posts: 3,766
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

bobn2 wrote:

That's just how it works.

You're taking life far too seriously.

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 69,811
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing
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Jestertheclown wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

That's just how it works.

You're taking life far too seriously.

If that means trying to give the OP so helpful information to work with, then I suppose so.

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PhotoTeach2 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,350
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

bobn2 wrote:

Jestertheclown wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

none of the three cameras I have with an EVF is any good at all, for those, a DSLR is a much better option. That's a personal thing, when I've said this before others have said that they find an EVF fine.

And I'm one of those people!

I was at Santa Pod Raceway last Sunday, fairly close to the start line but the fuel cars were still passing me at more than a hundred miles an hour.

Admittedly, my panning was a bit hit and miss; I don't do it very often but my success rate was pretty high.

I was using a Z7 with, obviously, an EVF but had none of he problems that get mentioned, blackouts, smearing, lag etc. that certain posters keep on about on here.

In fact the biggest problem that I had was being able to manoeuvre the 100-400 lens on the front of it.

Drag racing is a reasonably simple case. The cars might be going fast, but the direction and speed is quite predictable. It's a completely different kettle of fist to motorbike road racing. I have a Z6 and have found it to be no good at all for that. But it is individual. The problem is with something called proprioception, the ability to predict location and movement. The EVF delay, which is unavoidable, interferes with the neural feedback loops on which this depends, and can make them completely unstable. Whether or not it does depends on the individual. That's why I hesitate to say that an EVF is fine or is no good, you can't predict for someone else. I suspect that the newer EVFs will shorten the delay to the point where it is outside the problem range for most people.

Well Said Bob ...

EVF latency *WILL* (always) be a "problem", but hopefully, it will continue to shorten to insignificance.

Jestertheclown
Jestertheclown Veteran Member • Posts: 3,766
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

PhotoTeach2 wrote:

EVF latency *WILL* (always) be a "problem", but hopefully, it will continue to shorten to insignificance.

No problem for me!

But then, your expertise is frequently questioned on here, isn't it?

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John Crowe
John Crowe Senior Member • Posts: 2,333
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

I started motorsports photography with about 6 major events from 1984 to 1990.  I have been going to 2-4 major events each year for the past 20 years.

A lot of camera and lens upgrades over the years were key to getting awesome images.

Like others I wonder why you would only be interested in this as a one off event.  Getting memorable images of motor sporting events is not easy.  If this is truly a one off event, and you don't even intend to use a camera for any other purpose then I would stick with your phone.

If you chose to proceed definitely buy used to maximize your budget.  Check and see if any P&S has fast AF.   Focus on 24/25mm to 400/2000mm focal length bodies. The last P&S I had was useless for sports due to awful AF.  The alternative is an intro APS-C or 4/3 body with xx-300mm zoom.  Chose thoughtfully so you can use it going forward for other photographic interests.

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PhotoTeach2 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,350
Re: Best point-and-shoot camera for motorbike racing

John Crowe wrote:

I started motorsports photography with about 6 major events from 1984 to 1990. I have been going to 2-4 major events each year for the past 20 years.

A lot of camera and lens upgrades over the years were key to getting awesome images.

Like others I wonder why you would only be interested in this as a one off event. Getting memorable images of motor sporting events is not easy. If this is truly a one off event, and you don't even intend to use a camera for any other purpose then I would stick with your phone.

If you chose to proceed definitely buy used to maximize your budget. Check and see if any P&S has fast AF. Focus on 24/25mm to 400/2000mm focal length bodies. The last P&S I had was useless for sports due to awful AF.

The RX10-IV has a 24 to 600mm-EFL @ f/2.4-4 w/ 9 to 34ms "C"/PD-AF @ 25fps.

Should that be OK ???

The alternative is an intro APS-C or 4/3 body with xx-300mm zoom. Chose thoughtfully so you can use it going forward for other photographic interests.

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