Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
malathan Regular Member • Posts: 278
Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

I have posted a few times in the open discussion, but though I would post one last time before making a decision...and in the correct forum. Sorry if a similar/repeat as well as so many other "this vs that?" posts, but really would like to hear from those who have dealt with similar situations and/or experiences.

Current Camera...

  • Canon 7d (first gen, not II. 12 years old)
  • EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens
  • EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM Lens

Use primarily for vacation (landscape mostly) photos, family/dog photos, and the random accidental pic of my thumb (proverbially). Biggest struggle is weight (hiking with both lenses and camera is sometimes pain...especially with my not so great back) and low light/grainy photos (iso 640 is normal iso due to conditions such as indoors) or low light landscapes.

Given above, looking at following.

Nikon Z6 II

  • Not as comfortable to hold as R6
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC. Puts Z62/R6 together for better low light vs ZFC for lighter/smaller.
  • Many comment that Nikon is better at colors. I am partially color-blind with greens/reds, so a concern but something I heard others argue in favor of Nikon.
  • Standard lens:
    • Z 24-70mm f4. Lighter and smaller than Canon's 24-105 f4, so plus for me. But shorter range.
  • Telephoto
    • But what telephoto? Want to stay in modest $$ range (< $1k if possible)
  • ??? or do an all-in-one Z 24-200mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Canon R6

  • Very comfortable. Fits my hands perfectly.
  • Standard lens:
    • RF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
  • Telephoto:
    • I can use adaptor to use existing 70-300 lens, but then increasing size. However, already have lens so good $$$ savings. But compared with RF lenses, EF is heavy. 1050 g vs 70-200 4L at 695 g. Always something I can look at upgrading later.
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC.
  • ??? or do an all-in-one RF 24-240mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Nikon Z FC

  • ok comfort. Would have to add a grip attachment.
  • not much opinion on it otherwise.

Fuji X-T4

  • Very tempting, but with several photo comparisons, seems soft and not as clean as Canon nor Nikon (using DPReview's comparison tool).
  • Local shop also does not recommend Fuji.

Confused on what best option is...if Nikon, what is lenses to consider.  Should I give the Z FC (or Fuji) more focus?  I don't do any videos, so other systems (Sony and such, which is where they shine) are mostly off list.

Or do wait to see if other offerings come out...or just pocket money for retirement and live with what I have as 7d has served me for 12 years?  ISO and noise are main things pushing my desire for upgrade, but I also realize I don't take pictures that often compared with others...just if dogs are doing something funny, or vacationing.  Maybe new camera will revitalize my desire to get into it again.

-- hide signature --

Clayton
(I have my toys and empty wallet, but I am happy)

Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS R6 Nikon Z fc Nikon Z6 II
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ChelseaPhotographer
ChelseaPhotographer Senior Member • Posts: 1,136
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

malathan wrote:

I have posted a few times in the open discussion, but though I would post one last time before making a decision...and in the correct forum. Sorry if a similar/repeat as well as so many other "this vs that?" posts, but really would like to hear from those who have dealt with similar situations and/or experiences.

Current Camera...

  • Canon 7d (first gen, not II. 12 years old)
  • EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens
  • EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM Lens

Use primarily for vacation (landscape mostly) photos, family/dog photos, and the random accidental pic of my thumb (proverbially). Biggest struggle is weight (hiking with both lenses and camera is sometimes pain...especially with my not so great back) and low light/grainy photos (iso 640 is normal iso due to conditions such as indoors) or low light landscapes.

Given above, looking at following.

Nikon Z6 II

  • Not as comfortable to hold as R6
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC. Puts Z62/R6 together for better low light vs ZFC for lighter/smaller.
  • Many comment that Nikon is better at colors. I am partially color-blind with greens/reds, so a concern but something I heard others argue in favor of Nikon.
  • Standard lens:
    • Z 24-70mm f4. Lighter and smaller than Canon's 24-105 f4, so plus for me. But shorter range.
  • Telephoto
    • But what telephoto? Want to stay in modest $$ range (< $1k if possible)
  • ??? or do an all-in-one Z 24-200mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Canon R6

  • Very comfortable. Fits my hands perfectly.
  • Standard lens:
    • RF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
  • Telephoto:
    • I can use adaptor to use existing 70-300 lens, but then increasing size. However, already have lens so good $$$ savings. But compared with RF lenses, EF is heavy. 1050 g vs 70-200 4L at 695 g. Always something I can look at upgrading later.
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC.
  • ??? or do an all-in-one RF 24-240mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Nikon Z FC

  • ok comfort. Would have to add a grip attachment.
  • not much opinion on it otherwise.

Fuji X-T4

  • Very tempting, but with several photo comparisons, seems soft and not as clean as Canon nor Nikon (using DPReview's comparison tool).
  • Local shop also does not recommend Fuji.

Confused on what best option is...if Nikon, what is lenses to consider. Should I give the Z FC (or Fuji) more focus? I don't do any videos, so other systems (Sony and such, which is where they shine) are mostly off list.

Or do wait to see if other offerings come out...or just pocket money for retirement and live with what I have as 7d has served me for 12 years? ISO and noise are main things pushing my desire for upgrade, but I also realize I don't take pictures that often compared with others...just if dogs are doing something funny, or vacationing. Maybe new camera will revitalize my desire to get into it again.

I would go with the Z6II, or the R6. I prefer Nikon colors and Nikon lenses.

I also prefer the resolution, depth of field and low-light advantages of full-frame, so I would not go with APS-C.

 ChelseaPhotographer's gear list:ChelseaPhotographer's gear list
Ricoh GR III SeaLife DC2000 Canon EOS 5DS Pentax 645Z Nikon D850 +2 more
OP malathan Regular Member • Posts: 278
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

ChelseaPhotographer wrote:

I would go with the Z6II, or the R6. I prefer Nikon colors and Nikon lenses.

I also prefer the resolution, depth of field and low-light advantages of full-frame, so I would not go with APS-C.

On the Nikon/z6II side, I am not seeing any Z zoom/telephoto lenses (70-200 or 70-300... ignore the 70-200 f2.8 as way too $$$).  Under older mount, they have a $500 70-300 f/4.5-5.6.  Is that the only option, this lens with converter?  I was assuming Nikon would have a full range of lenses for the mirrorless, or am I missing something?  Or do you recommend another set of lenses?

-- hide signature --

Clayton
(I have my toys and empty wallet, but I am happy)

hobbit mob
hobbit mob Regular Member • Posts: 400
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

malathan wrote:

I have posted a few times in the open discussion, but though I would post one last time before making a decision...and in the correct forum. Sorry if a similar/repeat as well as so many other "this vs that?" posts, but really would like to hear from those who have dealt with similar situations and/or experiences.

Current Camera...

  • Canon 7d (first gen, not II. 12 years old)
  • EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens
  • EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM Lens

Use primarily for vacation (landscape mostly) photos, family/dog photos, and the random accidental pic of my thumb (proverbially). Biggest struggle is weight (hiking with both lenses and camera is sometimes pain...especially with my not so great back) and low light/grainy photos (iso 640 is normal iso due to conditions such as indoors) or low light landscapes.

Given above, looking at following.

Nikon Z6 II

  • Not as comfortable to hold as R6
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC. Puts Z62/R6 together for better low light vs ZFC for lighter/smaller.
  • Many comment that Nikon is better at colors. I am partially color-blind with greens/reds, so a concern but something I heard others argue in favor of Nikon.
  • Standard lens:
    • Z 24-70mm f4. Lighter and smaller than Canon's 24-105 f4, so plus for me. But shorter range.
  • Telephoto
    • But what telephoto? Want to stay in modest $$ range (< $1k if possible)
  • ??? or do an all-in-one Z 24-200mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Canon R6

  • Very comfortable. Fits my hands perfectly.
  • Standard lens:
    • RF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
  • Telephoto:
    • I can use adaptor to use existing 70-300 lens, but then increasing size. However, already have lens so good $$$ savings. But compared with RF lenses, EF is heavy. 1050 g vs 70-200 4L at 695 g. Always something I can look at upgrading later.
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC.
  • ??? or do an all-in-one RF 24-240mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Nikon Z FC

  • ok comfort. Would have to add a grip attachment.
  • not much opinion on it otherwise.

Fuji X-T4

  • Very tempting, but with several photo comparisons, seems soft and not as clean as Canon nor Nikon (using DPReview's comparison tool).
  • Local shop also does not recommend Fuji.

Confused on what best option is...if Nikon, what is lenses to consider. Should I give the Z FC (or Fuji) more focus? I don't do any videos, so other systems (Sony and such, which is where they shine) are mostly off list.

Or do wait to see if other offerings come out...or just pocket money for retirement and live with what I have as 7d has served me for 12 years? ISO and noise are main things pushing my desire for upgrade, but I also realize I don't take pictures that often compared with others...just if dogs are doing something funny, or vacationing. Maybe new camera will revitalize my desire to get into it again.

I have a canon 1d iii, 5d iii, and 1dx iii along with a fuji xf100, xt1 and xe2 (I use manual lenses with the xe2 and xt1).  So that's where my opinion is coming from.  I agree with you that Fuji does not seem quite as sharp as Canon.  Most likely, in my case, it's the difference in lenses that I use.  Fuji, to me, is a system designed to give you excellent out of camera jpegs.  Their 'film simulations' are excellent and can produce fantastic results straight out of camera (after some fine tuning).  It's what I use my fuji system for - family photos, walk about stuff, thing that I don't want to spend more time post processing.  I just get the photos I want, then transfer them to my phone for sharing/backup.

It's much lighter than my canon system, but my current setup I use is my 1dx iii, so that's no big surprise.  Obviously, with the cameras I have, the 1dx iii blows everything out of the water in terms of high ISO performance and IQ (but I only have an xt1, not and xt4!).  But even the quality from the 5diii is far superior (in my experience, with my lenses) than the xe2/xt1 in its high ISO performance.

If you're just wanting increase in performance without a huge change, I'd stick with canon and get the r6.  The menu setup/button setup with likely be similar to the 7d, so the learning curve will be lessened.  As far as lenses, grab an adapter and use your current L zoom lens (Although, I have heard that the 70-300 is low on the totem pole for L lenses, but i don't have experience with it), or get an RF zoom lens and a cheap prime in whatever focal length you most prefer.

-- hide signature --

Accelerating Entropy

 hobbit mob's gear list:hobbit mob's gear list
Fujifilm X100F Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS-1D Mark III Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm X-T1 +12 more
ChelseaPhotographer
ChelseaPhotographer Senior Member • Posts: 1,136
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

malathan wrote:

ChelseaPhotographer wrote:

I would go with the Z6II, or the R6. I prefer Nikon colors and Nikon lenses.

I also prefer the resolution, depth of field and low-light advantages of full-frame, so I would not go with APS-C.

On the Nikon/z6II side, I am not seeing any Z zoom/telephoto lenses (70-200 or 70-300... ignore the 70-200 f2.8 as way too $$$). Under older mount, they have a $500 70-300 f/4.5-5.6. Is that the only option, this lens with converter? I was assuming Nikon would have a full range of lenses for the mirrorless, or am I missing something? Or do you recommend another set of lenses?

No, you are not missing anything. Nikon hasn't flushed out it’s set of lenses yet. Sony has a very comprehensive set, and the Tamron f/2.8 zooms are fantastic and relatively inexpensive. It might be worth checking them out. They’re the only reason why I went with Sony…

 ChelseaPhotographer's gear list:ChelseaPhotographer's gear list
Ricoh GR III SeaLife DC2000 Canon EOS 5DS Pentax 645Z Nikon D850 +2 more
Martin_99 Senior Member • Posts: 2,897
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund
1

From my point of view - you have very old apsc camera, which is heavy and high ISO grainy and considering new FF cameras, which will be much better in image quality, but at the end similarly heavy if same reach as your current setup.

What about something in between - new apsc mirrorless, which have no problem with ISO3200 and weight of most camera+lens setups below 1kg? Not mention half the price in comparison with FF setups.

There are many options from Canon, Nikon, Sony or Fuji, you can choose in line with your requirements on features and lenses. All of them will be much better in most ways than your current setup.

EDIT: if you buy also fast prime lens, it will raise your image quality instantly, mainly because of fast aperture, but they are also sharper with less optical abberations. It's very useful for interior photography, but nice also for outdoor.

some size comparison - examples from Fuji and Nikon

 Martin_99's gear list:Martin_99's gear list
Sony a6400 Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS Sony E 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* E 24mm F1.8 ZA Sony E 70-350mm F4.5-6.3 G OSS +3 more
beagle1 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,490
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

malathan wrote:

I have posted a few times in the open discussion, but though I would post one last time before making a decision...and in the correct forum. Sorry if a similar/repeat as well as so many other "this vs that?" posts, but really would like to hear from those who have dealt with similar situations and/or experiences.

Current Camera...

  • Canon 7d (first gen, not II. 12 years old)
  • EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens
  • EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM Lens

Use primarily for vacation (landscape mostly) photos, family/dog photos, and the random accidental pic of my thumb (proverbially). Biggest struggle is weight (hiking with both lenses and camera is sometimes pain...especially with my not so great back) and low light/grainy photos (iso 640 is normal iso due to conditions such as indoors) or low light landscapes.

Given above, looking at following.

Nikon Z6 II

  • Not as comfortable to hold as R6
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC. Puts Z62/R6 together for better low light vs ZFC for lighter/smaller.
  • Many comment that Nikon is better at colors. I am partially color-blind with greens/reds, so a concern but something I heard others argue in favor of Nikon.
  • Standard lens:
    • Z 24-70mm f4. Lighter and smaller than Canon's 24-105 f4, so plus for me. But shorter range.
  • Telephoto
    • But what telephoto? Want to stay in modest $$ range (< $1k if possible)
  • ??? or do an all-in-one Z 24-200mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Canon R6

  • Very comfortable. Fits my hands perfectly.
  • Standard lens:
    • RF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
  • Telephoto:
    • I can use adaptor to use existing 70-300 lens, but then increasing size. However, already have lens so good $$$ savings. But compared with RF lenses, EF is heavy. 1050 g vs 70-200 4L at 695 g. Always something I can look at upgrading later.
  • Full frame, so better low light than APC.
  • ??? or do an all-in-one RF 24-240mm f/4-6.3 VR then pair with wide/fast prime?

Nikon Z FC

  • ok comfort. Would have to add a grip attachment.
  • not much opinion on it otherwise.

Fuji X-T4

  • Very tempting, but with several photo comparisons, seems soft and not as clean as Canon nor Nikon (using DPReview's comparison tool).
  • Local shop also does not recommend Fuji.

Confused on what best option is...if Nikon, what is lenses to consider. Should I give the Z FC (or Fuji) more focus? I don't do any videos, so other systems (Sony and such, which is where they shine) are mostly off list.

Or do wait to see if other offerings come out...or just pocket money for retirement and live with what I have as 7d has served me for 12 years? ISO and noise are main things pushing my desire for upgrade, but I also realize I don't take pictures that often compared with others...just if dogs are doing something funny, or vacationing. Maybe new camera will revitalize my desire to get into it again.

I vote Canon R6 -    I like Canon colors and "IQ" and the R6 can easily use EF lenses

rich_cx139 Senior Member • Posts: 2,484
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

Only a few comments:

How are you going from a ( good ) aps-c camera like the 7d to a FF body where, if you crop to the same apsc frame you are only going to get 8 mpx from the 20mpx R6. I suppose the R5 is outside your budget ? Or maybe you don’t need the longer reach ?

Since you are a Canon user are you going to be happier going to their milc?

I am from a Nikon background and like my z6 a lot / especially the f4 wide snd standard travel zooms supplemented by some bright primes.  For longer, I use the afp 70-300 fx via the ftz.  The Z 24-200 is also probably one of the best superzooms.  I use a d500 for long lenses wildlife etc )

Next year, the Nikon MILCs and their lenses will be looking a lot more competitive against canon and sony - but that’s next year ( maybe )

bmoag Veteran Member • Posts: 3,056
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund
2

If Heftitude is a major concern:

I don't see any great improvement in the physics between what you have and what you propose, anything full frame will be a significantly heavier burden on your neck and shoulders than what you now own. I assume you have found that the density of some/many smaller sensor mirrorless camera bodies belies their smaller physical size.

I once owned an Olympus m43 and a Canon T7i. The larger Canon weighed about the same as the Oly and with a 14-150 lens the Oly weighed more than the Canon with an 18-135 lens. I don't own either anymore, but I remember being surprised by that.

I assume you have handled the cameras noted. My muscle memory says that despite its physical size your Canon body probably weighs less than any of them. Lenses b lenses and apart from some APS EVF lenses mirrorless mount lenses can be bigger and heavier than their optical counterparts (as in most Nikon Z full frame lenses-just happen to own them).

You could leverage your current lenses with something like, if it is still available, a Canon SL3. You get whatever you perceive as the benefits of what is becoming the redoubtable Canon 24mp sensor, 4k video and a lightweight camera body. Unless you want an EVF to get away from the Canon pentamirror viewing system in the SL3 which is identical to the camera you have, which is a good enough reason to switch cameras.

You could also just get a good quality travel zoom to put on your current camera, something in the 18-whatever class. Tamron versions tend to be lighter weight with good quality for what they are.

I also do not believe there will a significant improvement in real world image quality if only shooting jpegs and viewing them by the usual electronic means for snapshot type images. The sensor in the Canon you have is fully up to that task. The mirrorless systems generally have improved glass, for what is worth, in the kit lenses along with built in lens correction algorithms in both jpeg and raw files.

 bmoag's gear list:bmoag's gear list
Nikon Z6 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Nikon D3300 Nikon D70
robgendreau Veteran Member • Posts: 9,344
Re: Final decision time...z6 ii, r6...or retirement fund

Hard to go wrong with any of those.

The EF 70-300mm would work on an R6, but not as much reach.

And none of those is going to be really light. Many FF lenses are heavy.

But you could say explore the 600mm or 800mm F11 RF lenses. Very good, and not as limiting as that F11 might lead you to believe, and very light for the reach. Check the reviews. I like the 24-240 on my R6 as a great hiking lens, really as good as an L in IQ imho, and great for everything from big scenics to occasional wildlife. But not lightweight; about the only thing that is would be the 35mm 1.8 (a great lens) or a nifty fifty.

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