G7 as a second camera?

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I can pick up a new Panasonic G7 with a 14-140mm kit lens for 380 Euro.

I've had a GX85 for about 5 years and I'm quite happy with it. I mostly use it for amateur photography (mostly landscape, family, music performances) and for shooting music performance videos from a tripod (no panning) with prime lenses.

I'm thinking the 14-140 would be a great addition to my lenses for vacation/general outdoor use, in fact it can substitute completely my Oly 40-150 and Lumix 14-32.

I would use the G7 for dual-camera videos. It could even substitute the GX85 for this use as it has a flip display and external mic. It could also serve well for my wife and daughter to learn photography.

About a year ago I was looking into older used Panasonics but in the end I didn't buy one.

My questions: is this too outdated a camera? Is this a good deal?

G7 has the old shake-prone shutter, and the 14-140 is the worse lens for that. I used to have a G7 (and still use the 14-140) and I sold it, primarily for that reason.

Chris Noble wrote:

G7 has the old shake-prone shutter, and the 14-140 is the worse lens for that. I used to have a G7 (and still use the 14-140) and I sold it, primarily for that reason.

Same as Chris, sold my g7 primarily due to shutter shock issue and also lack of ibis. Got a G9 now, couldn't be happier!

However, for video only, G7 could still do the trick IF you don't expect crazy stabilization (it's only the lens stab as the sensor is fixed).

And for daily photography with prime, it's also possibly good (no stab needed with fast lens provided you don't need huge dof)

notuno wrote:

I went ahead and bought it! They threw in a camera bag and SD card to boot.

Great buy!

There's a lot of confusing information in this thread:

• G7 does has the newer 16Mp sensor (G6 has the older one similar to GH2 sensor)
• G80/G85 has 10bit electronic shutter (like G7)
• People still confuse 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6 mk I to 14-140mm f/4.0-5.8 lens, even after it was discussed in this thread that they are different lenses

G7 is the perfect choice when used as a B-cam on a tripod. It has some advantages over G80/G85

• G7 is quite a bit lighter
• The microHDMI port is on the other side compared to G80/G85 (the HDMI cable does not block screen on G7)
• Better battery life (350 shots vs 320)
• Cheaper
• The AA-filter is probably a benefit for 4k and 1080p video.  

They have a two weeks return policy and I plan to do some tests against the GX85, both photo and video, and also tests of the lens.

Any suggestions as to what would be the most meaningful tests without too much lens swapping? (and below 100 shots as per return policy).

Use electronic shutter, it should not add to the shot count.

pannumon wrote:

notuno wrote:

I went ahead and bought it! They threw in a camera bag and SD card to boot.

Great buy!

There's a lot of confusing information in this thread:

• G7 does has the newer 16Mp sensor (G6 has the older one similar to GH2 sensor)

Thanks for correcting my apparently incorrect statement that the G85 "probably" has an improved sensor compared to the G7.

brentbrent wrote:

pannumon wrote:

There's a lot of confusing information in this thread:

• G7 does has the newer 16Mp sensor (G6 has the older one similar to GH2 sensor)

Thanks for correcting my apparently incorrect statement that the G85 "probably" has an improved sensor compared to the G7.

Actually that is a valid statement, as there are probably some minor improvements on the sensor and/or processor on G80/G85 over G7 (color science is probably a tad better; but there are not massive improvements like vs G7 vs G6).

pannumon wrote:

notuno wrote:

I went ahead and bought it! They threw in a camera bag and SD card to boot.

Great buy!

There's a lot of confusing information in this thread:

• G7 does has the newer 16Mp sensor (G6 has the older one similar to GH2 sensor)
• G80/G85 has 10bit electronic shutter (like G7)

Not sure on G7, G85 has 12 bits e-shutter. IIRC this should have been confirmed by some reviews on G85.

• People still confuse 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6 mk I to 14-140mm f/4.0-5.8 lens, even after it was discussed in this thread that they are different lenses

G7 is the perfect choice when used as a B-cam on a tripod. It has some advantages over G80/G85

• G7 is quite a bit lighter
• The microHDMI port is on the other side compared to G80/G85 (the HDMI cable does not block screen on G7)
• Better battery life (350 shots vs 320)
• Cheaper
• The AA-filter is probably a benefit for 4k and 1080p video.

They have a two weeks return policy and I plan to do some tests against the GX85, both photo and video, and also tests of the lens.

Any suggestions as to what would be the most meaningful tests without too much lens swapping? (and below 100 shots as per return policy).

Use electronic shutter, it should not add to the shot count.

alcelc wrote:

pannumon wrote:

Great buy!

There's a lot of confusing information in this thread:

• G7 does has the newer 16Mp sensor (G6 has the older one similar to GH2 sensor)
• G80/G85 has 10bit electronic shutter (like G7)

Not sure on G7, G85 has 12 bits e-shutter. IIRC this should have been confirmed by some reviews on G85.

I may have been wrong (the second time on this matter, see the link), thanks for correcting my correction. https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4246437

brentbrent wrote:

notuno wrote:

I went ahead and bought it! They threw in a camera bag and SD card to boot.

They have a two weeks return policy and I plan to do some tests against the GX85, both photo and video, and also tests of the lens.

Any suggestions as to what would be the most meaningful tests without too much lens swapping? (and below 100 shots as per return policy).

Congrats! Very good lens, and a capable body (even though not up to current standards) at a great price.

Trying it out the way you want to use it, mainly for video as I understand, seems the best approach, comparing results to your GX85. Search online and download the full, 411-page PDF manual.

Check that the body firmware is v. 2.2 and the lens firmware is v. 1.2. If not, you can download those versions and read the instructions here: https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/index.html

For stills with the 14-140 on the G7, use e-shutter when you can (mechanical shutter is only needed if you want to use flash, you have a moving subject, or under certain indoor lighting such as fluorescent or some LED). E-shutter will avoid shutter shock.

Thanks. Just received the package! In addition to what you suggest, I plan to also do a few tests of electronic vs mechanical shutter with various lenses at different focal length and exposure.

Thanks all for the very useful replies.  I decided to buy the kit since I don't expect shutter shock and lack of IBIS to be major problems for my intended uses.

For static video on a tripod, the G7 has also some advantages over the GX85 (tilting display, external mic input).

Finally, having the 14-140 lens, I can sell my 45-150 f/4-5.6 so the kit (camera + lens + bag)  costs me basically the same as a used 14-140.

I just received the camera and I'm going to make a few tests, especially regarding shutter shock and long handheld exposures.

pannumon wrote:

notuno wrote:

I went ahead and bought it! They threw in a camera bag and SD card to boot.

Great buy!

There's a lot of confusing information in this thread:

• G7 does has the newer 16Mp sensor (G6 has the older one similar to GH2 sensor)
• G80/G85 has 10bit electronic shutter (like G7)
• People still confuse 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6 mk I to 14-140mm f/4.0-5.8 lens, even after it was discussed in this thread that they are different lenses

G7 is the perfect choice when used as a B-cam on a tripod. It has some advantages over G80/G85

• G7 is quite a bit lighter
• The microHDMI port is on the other side compared to G80/G85 (the HDMI cable does not block screen on G7)
• Better battery life (350 shots vs 320)
• Cheaper
• The AA-filter is probably a benefit for 4k and 1080p video.

Good points. I never considered buying a G80/85 anyway, I cannot justify spending over 700 Euros just the body for a second camera.

They have a two weeks return policy and I plan to do some tests against the GX85, both photo and video, and also tests of the lens.

Any suggestions as to what would be the most meaningful tests without too much lens swapping? (and below 100 shots as per return policy).

Use electronic shutter, it should not add to the shot count.

Another good point. I admit that on the GX85 I very rarely used the electronic shutter. Still, I'm going to make tests on both cameras of electronic vs mechanical shutter.

notuno wrote:

'm going to make tests on both cameras of electronic vs mechanical shutter.

The worst shutter shock is probably mainly at 1/60 to 1/250 shutter speeds, and with the 14-140. So try some comparisons of mechanical and electronic shutters with the G7 and that lens at those shutter speeds. That's where you are most likely to see a difference.  Then see if the GX85's better shutter tames the problem.

Aberaeron wrote:

notuno wrote:

Thanks all for the very useful replies. I decided to buy the kit since I don't expect shutter shock and lack of IBIS to be major problems for my intended uses.

For static video on a tripod, the G7 has also some advantages over the GX85 (tilting display, external mic input).

Finally, having the 14-140 lens, I can sell my 45-150 f/4-5.6 so the kit (camera + lens + bag) costs me basically the same as a used 14-140.

I just received the camera and I'm going to make a few tests, especially regarding shutter shock and long handheld exposures.

I have a G7 and GX80. The G7 uses the older shutter that, as others have mentioned, can be prone to shutter shock blur at certain shutter speeds. However, the G7 has an electronic shutter option with an auto-select for shutter type that is very effective and chooses which shutter is appropriate to use. You can select the shutter to use, or auto if you add the feature to a custom quick menu or, as I've done, to a Fn button, in my case Fn4 which is also the return and delete file button.

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into this. I didn't check the manual but I guess the GX85 also has this option.

The 14-140 is a great favourite of mine and I have two of them. Today one is on a G6 and the other on the G7, but the Sigma 19mm will be swapped off the E-M1, which I've used this morning, for the one on the G6 later this afternoon.

The reason I have two copies is that there was an equally tempting offer to yours a few years ago on the G6 with the 14-140 where the complete kit was selling for less than the lens. So I landed up with two G6 and lenses. The next year I sold the original G6 for the G7 body and kept the lens. I used to use the G6 more than the G7 but my most used camera is now the G7. It's just a pity that it hasn't got IBIS for use with some of my unstabilised lenses. Not a massive issue though, because the 14-140 is on it most of the time, which is stabilised. Still, the G7 makes much better 1080p HD videos than the E-M1 MkII but is let down by its stabilisation even with the 14-140, which isn't in the same league as the Oly or even the GX80.

Yes, IBIS was the reason why I originally bought the GX85, which at the time was selling at about the same price as the G7. Actually, I first bought the G7 because of the tilting screen and mic input, but then returned it and got the GX85 as I decided IBIS was more important than these features.

Today, I plan to use the G7 mostly on a tripod for static videos of music performance with  the Lumix 17mm f/1.8, IBIS doesn't matter that much. I also plan to use simultaneously the GX85 hand-held for closeups of the musicians with the 45mm prime or a long zoom if there is good lighting.

Hi all,

I did some tests (brick wall and other subjects, mostly on a tripod, at different focal lengths and exposures) to compare my GX85 with the G7, and the Panasonic 14-140 f/3.5-5.6 lens with both the Olympus 40-150 f/4-5.6 and the Panasonic 12-32mm lenses.

I don't have time to export and upload images right now but here are my observations (keep in mind the G7 and 14-140 are brand new, the rest of the material is five years old):

Lens comparison:

1. At 40mm on the GX85, the 14-140 has a somewhat narrower FOV than the Oly 40-150. I cannot see any difference in color. The Olympus is somewhat sharper in the center, Panny sharper in corners.

2. At 14mm, the 14-140mm is considerably sharper than the 12-32mm lens. At 32mm, the 12-32 is slightly sharper instead.

3. At 140mm 1/2000 s, on the GX85 the Olympus lens is slightly sharper than the Panasonic lens. On the G7, it's the other way around, I don't know if this is due to antialiasing filter.

Camera comparison:

4. Indeed I see some shutter shock when comparing mechanical and electronic shutter on the G7 with the 14-140mm, at different focal lengths and exposures. I don't see it on
the GX85 under the same conditions.

5. At 40mm with the 14-140 lens, the G7 with electronic shutter is slightly sharper than the GX85. Surprisingly, even with mechanical shutter, at 1/125's the G7 is slightly sharper.

6. At140mm, using the 14-140 with electronic shutter, G7 is just as sharp as GX85.

7. With prime lens (17mm f/1.8 Olympus) shots are just as sharp with both cameras. So are
videos on a tripod. Handheld, obviously the GX85 wins because of stabilization.

8. Auto white balance gives quite different colors, with the GX85 giving redder images. I prefer the G7 colors.

9. S priority gives different apertures, slightly darker on G7

Bottom line:

For general outdoor use, the G7 with the Panasonic 14-140, used with electronic shutter, is a more than viable substitute for my GX85 with the 40-150, 12-32 combo (I lose slightly range at both ends obviously). For static videos,  the G7 with prime lenses is also a more than viable substitute.

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I did some tests (brick wall and other subjects, mostly on a tripod, at different focal lengths and exposures) to compare my GX85 with the G7, and the Panasonic 14-140 f/3.5-5.6 lens with both the Olympus 40-150 f/4-5.6 and the Panasonic 12-32mm lenses.

I don't have time to export and upload images right now but here are my observations (keep in mind the G7 and 14-140 are brand new, the rest of the material is five years old):

Lens comparison:

1. At 40mm on the GX85, the 14-140 has a somewhat narrower FOV than the Oly 40-150. I cannot see any difference in color. The Olympus is somewhat sharper in the center, Panny sharper in corners.

2. At 14mm, the 14-140mm is considerably sharper than the 12-32mm lens. At 32mm, the 12-32 is slightly sharper instead.

3. At 140mm 1/2000 s, on the GX85 the Olympus lens is slightly sharper than the Panasonic lens. On the G7, it's the other way around, I don't know if this is due to antialiasing filter.

I've found that the 14-140 is at its sharpest 1 or so  stop over its widest aperture. So in general if I'm going for sharpness I shoot @f5.6 @ 14mm and f7.1 - 8, light permiting  at @140mm. Give that a try and see if there's a difference.  My 140 doubles as my macro lens when combined with Raynox my DCR-250.

Camera comparison:

4. Indeed I see some shutter shock when comparing mechanical and electronic shutter on the G7 with the 14-140mm, at different focal lengths and exposures. I don't see it on
the GX85 under the same conditions.

5. At 40mm with the 14-140 lens, the G7 with electronic shutter is slightly sharper than the GX85. Surprisingly, even with mechanical shutter, at 1/125's the G7 is slightly sharper.

6. At140mm, using the 14-140 with electronic shutter, G7 is just as sharp as GX85.

7. With prime lens (17mm f/1.8 Olympus) shots are just as sharp with both cameras. So are
videos on a tripod. Handheld, obviously the GX85 wins because of stabilization.

8. Auto white balance gives quite different colors, with the GX85 giving redder images. I prefer the G7 colors.

Even when using AWBc on the GX85?

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I did some tests

I don't have time to export and upload images right now but here are my observations (keep in mind the G7 and 14-140 are brand new, the rest of the material is five years old):

My recommendation:  Don't take the time to post your many test images; people here will just endlessly pick them and your conclusions apart.

Bottom line:

For general outdoor use, the G7 with the Panasonic 14-140, used with electronic shutter, is a more than viable substitute for my GX85 with the 40-150, 12-32 combo (I lose slightly range at both ends obviously). For static videos, the G7 with prime lenses is also a more than viable substitute.

What matters is your own judgment and satisfaction with your own gear.  Thanks for coming back and posting such detailed thoughts.  You got a great deal on the G7 and 14-140, made even better by your bottom line conclusion that even a six-year old camera lacking some of the latest bells and whistles can meet most of your needs.  Congrats!

Cyvan wrote:

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I did some tests (brick wall and other subjects, mostly on a tripod, at different focal lengths and exposures) to compare my GX85 with the G7, and the Panasonic 14-140 f/3.5-5.6 lens with both the Olympus 40-150 f/4-5.6 and the Panasonic 12-32mm lenses.

I don't have time to export and upload images right now but here are my observations (keep in mind the G7 and 14-140 are brand new, the rest of the material is five years old):

Lens comparison:

1. At 40mm on the GX85, the 14-140 has a somewhat narrower FOV than the Oly 40-150. I cannot see any difference in color. The Olympus is somewhat sharper in the center, Panny sharper in corners.

2. At 14mm, the 14-140mm is considerably sharper than the 12-32mm lens. At 32mm, the 12-32 is slightly sharper instead.

3. At 140mm 1/2000 s, on the GX85 the Olympus lens is slightly sharper than the Panasonic lens. On the G7, it's the other way around, I don't know if this is due to antialiasing filter.

I've found that the 14-140 is at its sharpest 1 or so stop over its widest aperture. So in general if I'm going for sharpness I shoot @f5.6 @ 14mm and f7.1 - 8, light permiting at @140mm. Give that a try and see if there's a difference. My 140 doubles as my macro lens when combined with Raynox my DCR-250.

Thanks, all my tests were with the lenses at maximum aperture (mainly to decide if I was satisfied enough to keep the camera) but I'll try what you suggest.

Camera comparison:

4. Indeed I see some shutter shock when comparing mechanical and electronic shutter on the G7 with the 14-140mm, at different focal lengths and exposures. I don't see it on
the GX85 under the same conditions.

5. At 40mm with the 14-140 lens, the G7 with electronic shutter is slightly sharper than the GX85. Surprisingly, even with mechanical shutter, at 1/125's the G7 is slightly sharper.

6. At140mm, using the 14-140 with electronic shutter, G7 is just as sharp as GX85.

7. With prime lens (17mm f/1.8 Olympus) shots are just as sharp with both cameras. So are
videos on a tripod. Handheld, obviously the GX85 wins because of stabilization.

8. Auto white balance gives quite different colors, with the GX85 giving redder images. I prefer the G7 colors.

Even when using AWBc on the GX85?

There is no AWBc on the GX85 (at least I haven't found it in all these years!). I just used AWB on both cameras. Also, most tests were outdoors, and I understand that AWBc is to correct for reddish coloring due to artificial lights. I always found most of the images I got from  the GX85 a tad too red, but I didn't expect such a big difference.

brentbrent wrote:

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I did some tests

I don't have time to export and upload images right now but here are my observations (keep in mind the G7 and 14-140 are brand new, the rest of the material is five years old):

My recommendation: Don't take the time to post your many test images; people here will just endlessly pick them and your conclusions apart.

Bottom line:

For general outdoor use, the G7 with the Panasonic 14-140, used with electronic shutter, is a more than viable substitute for my GX85 with the 40-150, 12-32 combo (I lose slightly range at both ends obviously). For static videos, the G7 with prime lenses is also a more than viable substitute.

What matters is your own judgment and satisfaction with your own gear. Thanks for coming back and posting such detailed thoughts. You got a great deal on the G7 and 14-140, made even better by your bottom line conclusion that even a six-year old camera lacking some of the latest bells and whistles can meet most of your needs. Congrats!

Thanks for the feedback and I'll probably take your recommendation.