G7 as a second camera?

Hi all,

I can pick up a new Panasonic G7 with a 14-140mm kit lens for 380 Euro.

I've had a GX85 for about 5 years and I'm quite happy with it. I mostly use it for amateur photography (mostly landscape, family, music performances) and for shooting music performance videos from a tripod (no panning) with prime lenses.

I'm thinking the 14-140 would be a great addition to my lenses for vacation/general outdoor use, in fact it can substitute completely my Oly 40-150 and Lumix 14-32.

I would use the G7 for dual-camera videos. It could even substitute the GX85 for this use as it has a flip display and external mic. It could also serve well for my wife and daughter to learn photography.

About a year ago I was looking into older used Panasonics but in the end I didn't buy one.

My questions: is this too outdated a camera? Is this a good deal?

If you already think about adding the 14-140 anyway (highly recommend that lens btw), then go for it. A 14-140 new by itself is more than the 380 you mention!

jalywol wrote:

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I can pick up a new Panasonic G7 with a 14-140mm kit lens for 380 Euro.

I've had a GX85 for about 5 years and I'm quite happy with it. I mostly use it for amateur photography (mostly landscape, family, music performances) and for shooting music performance videos from a tripod (no panning) with prime lenses.

I'm thinking the 14-140 would be a great addition to my lenses for vacation/general outdoor use, in fact it can substitute completely my Oly 40-150 and Lumix 14-32.

I would use the G7 for dual-camera videos. It could even substitute the GX85 for this use as it has a flip display and external mic. It could also serve well for my wife and daughter to learn photography.

About a year ago I was looking into older used Panasonics but in the end I didn't buy one.

My questions: is this too outdated a camera? Is this a good deal?

If it's the second generation 14-140mm, that's a reasonable price. However, I think the G7 uses an older design 16MP sensor (but I may be wrong about this; I know the G5 used an adapted GH2 sensor and the G6 the one from the G3). It also does not have the updated shutter mechanism that the GX85 uses, which means it's much more prone to shutter shock, and it does not have the IBIS that your GX85 does either. So, if you want it for the lens alone, and it's the 14-140mm mk II, it's not a bad deal, but be prepared to adjust how you use the body to compensate for these differences.

-J

The lens is the original 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6, not the mkII. I believe the only difference is that the mkII is weather sealed, but I may be wrong. Indeed the mkII sells for considerably more than 380 Euro. I can't find reliable prices on the mkI, some sellers still list it but it may be a mistake as I assume it's been discontinued.

I believe the only difference in the sensor is that the GX85 lacks the anti-aliasing filter. I've read about the shutter shock problem, and since I will be using it primarily for video, I think I can live with it.

I would look for a G85 instead.

Despite a similar sensor to G7, the AA filter on G85 (same as GX85) has been removed such that you can get sharper output SOOC. I trust after years on using to look at SOOC output from GX85, you might find output from G7 is always lack of that degree of crispy sharpness. I had that on comparing between GX7 vs GX85 & G85.

Also the IBIS on G85 is  a game changer if you have non OIS lenses. Not to mention the DUAL IS 2 of 12~32 & 45~150 on G85, which might give you extra 0.5 stop effective stabilization over GX85's DUAL IS. It is completely missing on G7.

I bought G85 new at a small price of <€400 new from gray market (dekitted the 12~60) in 2019 before the covid. Recently it could be around €300 in Asia...

If you can stretch the budget, G85 is a far better choice. Looking back on old models is not good idea for mirrorless.

My 2 cents.

notuno wrote:

jalywol wrote:

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I can pick up a new Panasonic G7 with a 14-140mm kit lens for 380 Euro.

I've had a GX85 for about 5 years and I'm quite happy with it. I mostly use it for amateur photography (mostly landscape, family, music performances) and for shooting music performance videos from a tripod (no panning) with prime lenses.

I'm thinking the 14-140 would be a great addition to my lenses for vacation/general outdoor use, in fact it can substitute completely my Oly 40-150 and Lumix 14-32.

I would use the G7 for dual-camera videos. It could even substitute the GX85 for this use as it has a flip display and external mic. It could also serve well for my wife and daughter to learn photography.

About a year ago I was looking into older used Panasonics but in the end I didn't buy one.

My questions: is this too outdated a camera? Is this a good deal?

If it's the second generation 14-140mm, that's a reasonable price. However, I think the G7 uses an older design 16MP sensor (but I may be wrong about this; I know the G5 used an adapted GH2 sensor and the G6 the one from the G3). It also does not have the updated shutter mechanism that the GX85 uses, which means it's much more prone to shutter shock, and it does not have the IBIS that your GX85 does either. So, if you want it for the lens alone, and it's the 14-140mm mk II, it's not a bad deal, but be prepared to adjust how you use the body to compensate for these differences.

-J

The lens is the original 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6, not the mkII. I believe the only difference is that the mkII is weather sealed, but I may be wrong. Indeed the mkII sells for considerably more than 380 Euro. I can't find reliable prices on the mkI, some sellers still list it but it may be a mistake as I assume it's been discontinued.

I believe the only difference in the sensor is that the GX85 lacks the anti-aliasing filter. I've read about the shutter shock problem, and since I will be using it primarily for video, I think I can live with it.

E-shutter is the key to use 14~140 (the f/3.5~ version, not the older f/4 version). Despite of the new m-shutter, shutter shock cannot be completely eliminated on GX85. But it is on a cost of 10 bits e-shutter, but only will find its shortage on heavy pp.

G85 uses a 12 bits e-shutter, also EFCS which can eliminate shutter shock of 14~140.

If shutter shock can be eliminated, 14~140 is an excellent all-in-one lens in a small size and at a relatively little price.

IBIS is very effective on video (run and gun style of shooting) stabilization. If video is your thing, better rethink G7 which is not IBIS supported.

jalywol wrote:

notuno wrote:

jalywol wrote:

notuno wrote:

Hi all,

I can pick up a new Panasonic G7 with a 14-140mm kit lens for 380 Euro.

I've had a GX85 for about 5 years and I'm quite happy with it. I mostly use it for amateur photography (mostly landscape, family, music performances) and for shooting music performance videos from a tripod (no panning) with prime lenses.

I'm thinking the 14-140 would be a great addition to my lenses for vacation/general outdoor use, in fact it can substitute completely my Oly 40-150 and Lumix 14-32.

I would use the G7 for dual-camera videos. It could even substitute the GX85 for this use as it has a flip display and external mic. It could also serve well for my wife and daughter to learn photography.

About a year ago I was looking into older used Panasonics but in the end I didn't buy one.

My questions: is this too outdated a camera? Is this a good deal?

If it's the second generation 14-140mm, that's a reasonable price. However, I think the G7 uses an older design 16MP sensor (but I may be wrong about this; I know the G5 used an adapted GH2 sensor and the G6 the one from the G3). It also does not have the updated shutter mechanism that the GX85 uses, which means it's much more prone to shutter shock, and it does not have the IBIS that your GX85 does either. So, if you want it for the lens alone, and it's the 14-140mm mk II, it's not a bad deal, but be prepared to adjust how you use the body to compensate for these differences.

-J

The lens is the original 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6, not the mkII. I believe the only difference is that the mkII is weather sealed, but I may be wrong. Indeed the mkII sells for considerably more than 380 Euro. I can't find reliable prices on the mkI, some sellers still list it but it may be a mistake as I assume it's been discontinued.

I believe the only difference in the sensor is that the GX85 lacks the anti-aliasing filter. I've read about the shutter shock problem, and since I will be using it primarily for video, I think I can live with it.

I had the original 14-140mm. I liked it, but it has the old Mega-OIS, not the newer Power OIS which is a bit more effective. It's a fair bit bigger than, and it also has a little bit less neutral output than the newer version. Still, I got a lot of very good images from it. And, as an added bonus, it's a lot less prone to shutter shock than the newer one .

-J

As far as I can tell there have been three versions of the 14-140.
Did you have the first one(f/4) or the second one(non-weather sealed f/3.5)? The second one is the kit lens on this camera. The third one is weather sealed f/3.5.

jalywol wrote:

notuno wrote:

As far as I can tell there have been three versions of the 14-140.
Did you have the first one(f/4) or the second one(non-weather sealed f/3.5)? The second one is the kit lens on this camera. The third one is weather sealed f/3.5.

Ah, the first, the f/4 . The two f/3.5 versions are both Mk II, and the same optically, but they did a cosmetic update when they brought out the GX8. Otherwise, they should be the same. The first version had the Mega OIS and was a tank. The mk IIs are smaller and a bit faster, and are supposed to have better IQ. So, if it has one of the f 3.5 ones, it's the Mk II (the outer housing was finished in a kind of purply black color initially, and that's probably the one you are getting. The second Mk II was black, but they should be optically the same).

Incorrect. The f/4 14-140 is a completely different lens from the f/3.5 version, which is smaller and much better optically. Many of us here, including me, referred to that first f/3.5 as the MK II, but that was really a misnomer, since they were two completely different lenses, sort of like the the PL25 f/1.4 and the P25 f/1.7. The latter is not "MK II" to the former, though they share the same focal length, because they are completely different lenses.

Panasonic released a true MKII of the 3.5 lens, and the only difference is that it is weather-resistant (and costs more now). https://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/lenses/panasonic_14-140_3p5_5p6_ii_asph_ois

There may have been cosmetic changes somewhere along the line to one or both of the 3.5 lenses, but that doesn't affect which is the original and which is the MK II. The distinguishing feature is weather resistance.

I had the G7 for a short time, and then the GX8 was released and I got a good sale deal on that so I sold the G7. The G7 was a nice improvement over my G5. I really liked the ergonomics and the EVF, at least as compared to the G5. And it shoots 4K video

The G85 is clearly a significant improvement on the G7: IBIS, weather-resistant, no AA filter, and a shutter much more resistant to shutter shock, among other things. Probably a somewhat improved sensor.

The 14-140 f/3.5 is somewhat prone to shutter shock at lower shutter speeds, but that won't impact you when shooting video with the G7.

If you are using it as a second video camera on a tripod, lack of IBIS won't matter.

It sounds like a very good price for the body and lens. Should you decide to keep the lens (which is quite good - I sold mine only because I bought the 12-100), you could probably sell the G7 if you become dissatisfied with it and still end up with a 14-140 at a very low price.

If you weigh the pros and cons and are willing to live with the G7's limitations, I'd say go for it!

jalywol wrote:

brentbrent wrote:

Incorrect. The f/4 14-140 is a completely different lens from the f/3.5 version, which is smaller and much better optically.

Which is exactly what I said, if you read my paragraph carefully.

Well, I have no interest in quarrelling with you about who said what. I respect your many valuable contributions to this forum. I just wanted to convey to the OP what I believe to be accurate information about the three 14-140 lenses that Panasonic has released. Peace out.

brentbrent wrote:

jalywol wrote:

brentbrent wrote:

Incorrect. The f/4 14-140 is a completely different lens from the f/3.5 version, which is smaller and much better optically.

Which is exactly what I said, if you read my paragraph carefully.

Well, I have no interest in quarrelling with you about who said what. I respect your many valuable contributions to this forum. I just wanted to convey to the OP what I believe to be accurate information about the three 14-140 lenses that Panasonic has released. Peace out.

Thanks both for the clarification.

brentbrent wrote:

I had the G7 for a short time, and then the GX8 was released and I got a good sale deal on that so I sold the G7. The G7 was a nice improvement over my G5. I really liked the ergonomics and the EVF, at least as compared to the G5. And it shoots 4K video

The G85 is clearly a significant improvement on the G7: IBIS, weather-resistant, no AA filter, and a shutter much more resistant to shutter shock, among other things. Probably a somewhat improved sensor.

The 14-140 f/3.5 is somewhat prone to shutter shock at lower shutter speeds, but that won't impact you when shooting video with the G7.

If you are using it as a second video camera on a tripod, lack of IBIS won't matter.

It sounds like a very good price for the body and lens. Should you decide to keep the lens (which is quite good - I sold mine only because I bought the 12-100), you could probably sell the G7 if you become dissatisfied with it and still end up with a 14-140 at a very low price.

If you weigh the pros and cons and are willing to live with the G7's limitations, I'd say go for it!

I went ahead and bought it! They threw in a camera bag and SD card to boot.

They have a two weeks return policy and I plan to do some tests against the GX85, both photo and video, and also tests of the lens.

Any suggestions as to what would be the most meaningful tests without too much lens swapping? (and below 100 shots as per return policy).

Just some notes from ,my Findings - the G7 suffers pretty badly from shutter shock and the 14-140 is one of the worst lenses for making matters worse . also the G7 has no IBIS

G80s can be had for not a lot more, are shock free and have IBIS for DUAL IS whee I believe Video benefits

AdamT wrote:

Just some notes from ,my Findings - the G7 suffers pretty badly from shutter shock and the 14-140 is one of the worst lenses for making matters worse . also the G7 has no IBIS

G80s can be had for not a lot more, are shock free and have IBIS for DUAL IS whee I believe Video benefits

Yeah but he was really buying it for the lens more than the camera. His photo camera is going to be the GX85 so shuttershock won't be an issue and the G7 would be a video camera so no shock there either.

I wouldn't spend money on a G7 now but in the deal it makes sense mainly for the lens.

I had a G7 with 14-140 and picked up a GX85. Once I got the GX85 I rarely used the G7. The sensor is the same, but the IBIS and the lack of AA filter alone make a substantial difference, so it only really got used when I absolutely needed a second camera. I picked up a used G85 with the intention of replacing the G7 and it was super, with the best features of both cameras, but it developed a defect and had to go back.

I'd think of looking for a G85 with the 14-140 if you could.

I've since upgraded to the G9 and still have the GX85. That's now getting similar levels of neglect the G7 suffered from, although it has more uses, since it's substantially smaller than the G9.

notuno wrote:

I went ahead and bought it! They threw in a camera bag and SD card to boot.

They have a two weeks return policy and I plan to do some tests against the GX85, both photo and video, and also tests of the lens.

Any suggestions as to what would be the most meaningful tests without too much lens swapping? (and below 100 shots as per return policy).

Congrats!  Very good lens, and a capable body (even though not up to current standards) at a great price. 

Trying it out the way you want to use it, mainly for video as I understand, seems the best approach, comparing results to your GX85. Search online and download the full, 411-page PDF manual.

Check that the body firmware is v. 2.2 and the lens firmware is v. 1.2. If not, you can download those versions and read the instructions here: https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/index.html

For stills with the 14-140 on the G7, use e-shutter when you can (mechanical shutter is only needed if you want to use flash, you have a moving subject, or under certain indoor lighting such as fluorescent or some LED). E-shutter will avoid shutter shock.